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#464406 - 04/21/19 07:14 AM Re: Question from a Photographer [Re: Photog]
Long Walk Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 380
Loc: New Hampshire
Originally Posted By: Photog
I've been shooting r/e for over 10 years, so I have some clue. I'm sorry if my above response was tough love for you, but everything I wrote is true. My tone was also affected by being lied to about the listing price of the home I just shot...

...Photographs are necessary to sell a home. Realtors are not always.
Photog - I snipped parts of one of your earlier posts and put them in this quote.

There is something in your tone that makes me think that you really don't understand real estate brokerage. Price, not photographs, sell properties. If a listing is over-priced, no amount of high-quality photos will help. Price is everything. Like most of the agents on this board, I have sold property without photos or with very poor-quality photos. And that means with sellers and with buyers. Your premise is wrong and that has skewed your view of the marketplace for your services.

To that point, you appear to have missed the value question at the heart of your sale. There is a price for every good or service in every market at all times, so long as there is demand for it. When I first started into residential brokerage, I thought agents had a total monopoly on sales in the market...until I encountered FSBO's. Your FSBO is the ability of the agent to take their own photos. So, your second premise is wrong: you are not essential for the sale of real estate.

I may have mis-read your posts, but I think not. My suggestion would be to study your market and find a photography service opportunity that is under-served and/or that you can earn acceptable fees in. It would also help you to take some sales training. By the time someone considers that their customers are not intelligent enough to understand their offering, that person is on their way into another line of work.

Just my $0.02. Take it for what it may be worth to you.

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#464410 - 04/21/19 08:18 PM Re: Question from a Photographer [Re: Photog]
Photog Offline
Member

Registered: 02/25/19
Posts: 15
Loc: USA
Absolutely the price has to be right. I understand that. However in this day and age, a home for sale without an online listing is at a serious disadvantage, unless of course the house sells itself and then both of us may be unneeded. An online listing with poor photos is at a serious disadvantage unless it has no peers or comps. Usually, poor photos make the realtor and sellers look lazy, sloppy, even incompetent. I didn't mean to imply that good photos are essential. Sometimes good enough is good enough, especially for lower and middle class homes. However the fact that homes can be sold by owner implies that the realtor is even less essential. Bet you a steak dinner that most FSBOs have photos.

I guess another thing I don't understand is why realtors are so concerned with self-image in every other regard, but when it comes to the photos that represent their sale and themselves, many just shrug and say "good enough".


Edited by Photog (04/21/19 08:29 PM)

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#464412 - 04/22/19 05:20 AM Re: Question from a Photographer [Re: Photog]
Bigtoe Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 2376
Loc: Outer Banks
My first website went live in 1995. I now have 20+ real estate niche websites. I have made a ton of money off the internet. Not 1 single buyer that came from the web bought a house they found online. Evey single buyer shows up with a price range and a list of features they want in the house. Then we physically go look at all of the houses that fit those requirements without even looking at the pictures. This goes for low end buyers as well as high end buyers.

Pictures do not sell houses. We use professional photographers and professional drone pictures to win over sellers who believe that pictures sell houses.

So the quality of the pictures in no way affects the sellability of a home. This is just another real estate myth like the myth about open houses selling homes.
_________________________
Your Outer Banks real estate agent. Helping people buy and sell OBX real estate since 1989.

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#464413 - 04/22/19 08:38 AM Re: Question from a Photographer [Re: Bigtoe]
STEW Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 559
Loc: FLORIDA
I use a good professional photographer on all my listings, even REO's.
Why? because they bring leads.
Some photographers are quite good some are very average. Much like realtors.

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#464430 - 04/23/19 05:27 AM Re: Question from a Photographer [Re: Photog]
Bigtoe Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 2376
Loc: Outer Banks
@stew
Would you be willing to explain to us how good pictures get you leads and what kind of leads they are? Thanks!
_________________________
Your Outer Banks real estate agent. Helping people buy and sell OBX real estate since 1989.

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#464443 - 04/24/19 08:56 AM Re: Question from a Photographer [Re: Bigtoe]
Photog Offline
Member

Registered: 02/25/19
Posts: 15
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Bigtoe
Not 1 single buyer that came from the web bought a house they found online.


This is laughably unbelievable.

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#464447 - 04/24/19 10:21 AM Re: Question from a Photographer [Re: Photog]
Long Walk Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 380
Loc: New Hampshire
Originally Posted By: Photog
Originally Posted By: Bigtoe
Not 1 single buyer that came from the web bought a house they found online.


This is laughably unbelievable.

Unbelievable to you with no brokerage experience? This is my point about your posts: you don't understand brokerage and consequently say things like this.

Prospects calling in from signs are very different and will often buy the house they call on. Inquiries from print or web media sources are interested in the interior of the house and are highly unlikely to buy it once they see it in person.

It would help your cause to adopt a more professional tone in your posts. You can do as you feel is right, but, to me, you sound angry that agents don't value your services the way that you do.

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#464601 - 05/03/19 09:13 AM Re: Question from a Photographer [Re: Long Walk]
Photog Offline
Member

Registered: 02/25/19
Posts: 15
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Long Walk
Unbelievable to you with no brokerage experience?


One does not need to be a broker to know that is simply incredible. For one example, we found both our home and our vacation home online. This is not uncommon. The brokers were merely formalities and wasted expenses for the sellers. Too bad they didn't just use craigslist.

Quote:
This is my point about your posts: you don't understand brokerage and consequently say things like this.


That is exactly what I said in my first post - I don't understand brokers. From this thread, I have gained enough of an understanding to change my business model accordingly. Mission accomplished.

Quote:
Prospects calling in from signs are very different and will often buy the house they call on. Inquiries from print or web media sources are interested in the interior of the house and are highly unlikely to buy it once they see it in person.


You would need to provide data for any reasonable person to take that claim seriously.

Quote:
It would help your cause to adopt a more professional tone in your posts. You can do as you feel is right, but, to me, you sound angry that agents don't value your services the way that you do.


I came into this thread angry that I had been lied to by a realtor who said the listing price was $69,000 less than the truth, in order to get a lower price out of me for photos. Additionally, they wanted a $150 discount off that price, which I gave them out of good will. Bigtoe came into this thread with some helpful information, but also taking that realtor's side, and espousing a frankly ridiculous attitude towards photography that had nothing to do with my original question, so you'll just have to forgive me if I have a less than "professional" attitude towards people like this. Others here have been helpful.

If you care to see where I am coming from, here is a listing (not mine) that I just stumbled upon.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/20-Bradlee-Rd-Marblehead-MA-01945/56942277_zpid/

This is similar to the level of photography I provide. Actually I think I could have shot this property a little better, but whatever. For a listing like this I don't think it's reasonable or professional for a realtor to cop the attitude that the photos don't really matter that much, and are not doing significant work on your behalf.

This property is also similar to the ones I have been hired to shoot by the agency in question. So you can see I am not just another ham-and-egger shooting $295K raised ranches for $150 a pop. So yeah it was maddening and bewildering to me why they would lie about the price and want a discount. I understand now that they have significant risk of not selling the property and getting fired by the seller if the home doesn't move in the desired timeframe. I have adjusted my business model to accommodate that risk, and the realtors I have proposed that to are happy with it.


Edited by Photog (05/03/19 12:37 PM)

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#464619 - 05/04/19 09:03 AM Re: Question from a Photographer [Re: Photog]
Long Walk Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 380
Loc: New Hampshire
Photog -

This is a fact-based discussion of business practices and principles. Your tone is still shrill and angry. What is it about this discussion that provokes such a visceral response in you?

No, you don't understand brokers or brokerage. You give all appearance of elevating two experiences you report having to the level of market norms. If your experience happened as you described, then you are a statistical anomaly, an outlier. Here is a 2017 report from the NAR on how people buy homes. It does not square with your experience, but it does square with mine.

To help you understand, there were 6.1MM sales in 2017 of new and existing homes. According to the NAR report for the same year, 88% of sales were handled by brokers. That means 5.3MM buyers bought through a broker. And they looked at an average of 10 homes each, according to the NAR.

Your experience is not the same as 5.3MM buyer in 2017. So, no, you don't understand brokers or brokerage. And your attitude is totally unprofessional. I would have no way to know beyond your unsupported statements what your photography skills are like, but, if they are comparable to your sales skills, I would respectfully suggest you find a career that better fits your personality and aptitudes.

As regards your behavior in this forum, you would do well to show a little respect to women and men who feed their families through their ability to go find business and get it closed in a professional way, year in and year out.

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#464642 - 05/05/19 06:36 AM Re: Question from a Photographer [Re: Photog]
Bigtoe Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 2376
Loc: Outer Banks
Originally Posted By: Photog
For one example, we found both our home and our vacation home online.


and i am sure you did not bother to look at other similar houses because the pictures of the houses you purchased were so awesome that it did not matter what the conditions, locations or floorplans were like, plus the other houses must have been crappy houses because their pictures were so poorly done and we all know only the best houses have the bestest pictures.



Edited by Bigtoe (05/05/19 06:37 AM)
_________________________
Your Outer Banks real estate agent. Helping people buy and sell OBX real estate since 1989.

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#464664 - 05/06/19 10:47 AM Re: Question from a Photographer [Re: Photog]
Photog Offline
Member

Registered: 02/25/19
Posts: 15
Loc: USA
I think we're done here. I've been nothing but civil. Photographer and Realtor are two professions that can be successfully done as a fallback for people like liberal arts majors and stay-at-home-moms re-entering the workforce after 20 years. We're not curing cancer here, so get off your high horse.

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#464665 - 05/06/19 11:00 AM Re: Question from a Photographer [Re: Photog]
Long Walk Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 380
Loc: New Hampshire
Originally Posted By: Photog
I think we're done here. I've been nothing but civil. Photographer and Realtor are two professions that can be successfully done as a fallback for people like liberal arts majors and stay-at-home-moms re-entering the workforce after 20 years. We're not curing cancer here, so get off your high horse.

Photog -- We were done when you entered our forum emotionally out-of-control to tell how us all how replaceable we are as brokers and how inestimably vital photographers are. If that passes for civil in your world, then your skills are even weaker than I had thought. Very graciously, we tried to help you come to a better understanding of your place in a real estate transaction. Your position has consistently suggested that you believe yourself to be the smartest person in the room. Your arrogance and conceit totally defeated our efforts.

Incidentally, you never posted a link to your work to prove to us that you are not a 'ham and egger'. Lacking that proof, we conclude that you are exactly that.

Good day to you and I wish you well finding a new forum in which to have emotion-driven, self-centered temper tantrums.

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#464668 - 05/06/19 03:16 PM Re: Question from a Photographer [Re: Long Walk]
Photog Offline
Member

Registered: 02/25/19
Posts: 15
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Long Walk
Photog -- We were done when you entered our forum emotionally out-of-control to tell how us all how replaceable we are as brokers and how inestimably vital photographers are.


No, if you go back and read the OP, you'll see I came in with an honest question. I only counter-attacked after I was attacked in an off-topic manner.

Quote:
If that passes for civil in your world, then your skills are even weaker than I had thought.


I made no ad-hominem remarks. What I said was true, realtors are not always necessary. This is a fact proven by the existence of FSBO. If facts hurt your feelings that's not my problem. I also said photos are not always necessary, and that professional photos are not always necessary.

Quote:
Very graciously, we tried to help you come to a better understanding of your place in a real estate transaction.


Oh, so graciously.

Quote:
Your position has consistently suggested that you believe yourself to be the smartest person in the room.


That is actually quite possible, considering the intellect of several of the realtors I've dealt with, and your demonstrated reading comprehension skills.

Quote:
Incidentally, you never posted a link to your work to prove to us that you are not a 'ham and egger'. Lacking that proof, we conclude that you are exactly that.


Obviously I can't do that in case any of my clients are reading this.

Quote:
Good day to you and I wish you well finding a new forum in which to have emotion-driven, self-centered temper tantrums.


Seems I hit a nerve. Win. You are not an admin or moderator; I think I'll stick around.


Edited by Photog (05/06/19 03:22 PM)

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#464854 - 05/15/19 12:54 PM Re: Question from a Photographer [Re: Photog]
Photog Offline
Member

Registered: 02/25/19
Posts: 15
Loc: USA
This article and lawsuit backs up everything I'm saying. The job of Realtor is going the way of the Travel Agent. Buyers can and do do most of their own research online before ever contacting a seller or agent. Therefore, listing photos are extremely important - arguably as important as the realtor if not more.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/15/economy/real-estate-commissions/index.html

From the 2019 NAR report linked in the above article:
"As a result of an internet home search, buyers most often walked through the home that they viewed online. All generations saw the exterior of homes because of searching online for properties. The most important website feature was photos for nine in 10 buyers under the age of 63. Real estate agent contact information was most important to buyers aged 73 years and older"

https://www.nar.realtor/sites/default/fi...-04-03-2019.pdf


Edited by Photog (05/15/19 01:49 PM)

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#464873 - 05/16/19 01:32 AM Re: Question from a Photographer [Re: Photog]
Alam Khan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/16/19
Posts: 1
Loc: Damour
When we are searching for property to buy then we can checks lot of option through internet searching and make a list of best properties in region. There are many property listing websites that are very helpful for search property and before final the property once checked the real physical location & property condition.

If you are looking luxury villas in Lebanon then visit here and found luxurious property.

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