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#154751 - 07/11/07 10:28 AM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: ky realtor]
alexdoan123 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 31
Loc: utah
no soliciting mean "DONT BUG ME" : )

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#154761 - 07/11/07 10:51 AM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Kep]
Paul Oaks Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 3370
Loc: Central Illinois
Kep,
It appears you have not only a sign reading problem but also a reading comprehension problem. I specifically said the if there are DEED RESTRICTIONS in place in that HOA then the association can enforce the restriction. If I the developer of a subdivision feel that solar panels are ugly and do not want them on the homes in my subdivision I would include a deed restriction against them and that would be included in the HOA by-laws and would indeed be enforceable. This was obviously not that case for your HOA or they would have appealed and the judge's verdict would have been overturned on appeal. To make matters worse they could have done a special assessment to recover the attorney fees and if you refuse to pay they can put a lien on your house.

Better hope the HOA does not appeal the judge's ruling or you may be out alot of money.

Originally Posted By: Kep
Originally Posted By: Paul Oaks
If your home is part of a HOA there are likely deed restrictions that allow the HOA to enforce its by-laws. You purchased the home knowing there was a HOA and agreed to abide by its by-laws.


Paul you are wrong bud. The reason why I used that as an example was because that situation applied to me. I went through all the proper motions before the board and moved ahead with adding solar. They claimed two things about the solar...

1) Their by-laws stated no solar.

The judge told them the town law trumps HOA's.

2) They claimed their clause about aesthetics.

Again town law trumps the HOA but the judge said aesthetics was too broad and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

The end result, I was able to install the solar. The HOA realized they can not enforce their solar policy due to the law but so they put guidelines in place for future installations.

_________________________
Paul Oaks
Oaks Real Estate Group

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#154830 - 07/11/07 03:30 PM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Paul Oaks]
Kep Offline
Member

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 263
Originally Posted By: Paul Oaks
Kep,
It appears you have not only a sign reading problem but also a reading comprehension problem.


Seems like we both have the comprehension problem since the original post was about by-laws with no mention to deed restrictions.

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#154832 - 07/11/07 03:32 PM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Kep]
Kep Offline
Member

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 263
They could appeal all they want they would still lose.

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#154839 - 07/11/07 04:03 PM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Kep]
Perky_REALTOR Offline
Mod Squad
Major Contributor

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 7688
Loc: PA
Kep, I think you got lucky, you probably had an environmentalist judge. lol Or it could be that the judge deemed the covenants unenforceable for whatever reason. Maybe they were not properly recorded or ratified. You can not build an entire argument on just one isolated and unique case without more facts on why the judge overturned the more restrictive covenants.

My understanding is that with certain exceptions, more restrictive "local" laws/restrictions/ordinances will "trump" more lenient "regional" ones (for want of better terms...) as long as they are not illegal to begin with. I.E., you can't have a local law saying that it's okay for 18 year olds to drink if the state law is more restrictive and says it has to be 21...

At least that is how I understand it... I am not articulating it as well as a real estate attorney or an agent with more experience in this area would be able to.

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#154906 - 07/11/07 09:43 PM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Kep]
Paceryder Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: 05/14/05
Posts: 944
Loc: The Milky Way
Originally Posted By: Kep
Paul, not to get off topic but I have to throw this out at you due to your response to the town law that grants me the right to solicit in that town.

Say I want to install solar electric on the roof of my home. The town has a law on the books that I have a right to install solar on my home. Let's say I live in an HOA and the by-laws state clearly no solar can be installed on the rooftops. Can they stop me?


I would say yes. My community has covenants and restrictions agains having laundry lines and having to have lights at the end of the driveways, for two things. Also we are not allowed to rent our houses. As far as I know, these things are allowed by our town. smile

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#154947 - 07/11/07 11:33 PM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Paceryder]
Cool Cat Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 322
Loc: Indiana
Not to change the subject, but...

Has any one seen the movie Barfly starring Mickey Rourke and Faye Dunaway?

Here is one of my favorite lines.

"To all of my friends"



Let us all agree to disagree and shake hands.

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#154965 - 07/12/07 01:23 PM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Paceryder]
Kep Offline
Member

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 263
Originally Posted By: Paceryder
Originally Posted By: Kep
Paul, not to get off topic but I have to throw this out at you due to your response to the town law that grants me the right to solicit in that town.

Say I want to install solar electric on the roof of my home. The town has a law on the books that I have a right to install solar on my home. Let's say I live in an HOA and the by-laws state clearly no solar can be installed on the rooftops. Can they stop me?


I would say yes. My community has covenants and restrictions agains having laundry lines and having to have lights at the end of the driveways, for two things. Also we are not allowed to rent our houses. As far as I know, these things are allowed by our town. smile


Poor analogy there. That has nothing to do with laws set in place to prevent an HOA from ruling in certain situations.

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#155136 - 07/13/07 12:55 AM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Kep]
Bay Area Brian Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 613
No soliciting, do you mail things, do they go to places with no soliciting signs, yes they do and in that case you are just as guilty of soliciting as if I knocked on the door. Same with the do not call list.

So to comply with the wishes many of you express you should check the do not call status, the address status, whether there is a no soliciting situation, and when meeting someone new we should find out their personal solicitation policy before we offer a business card or ask a question.

Are you just a bunch of wimps who can't tell someone at the door I don't wish to be disturbed and I don't do business at my front door. Or, do you just love whining about being solicited, and yet that is what your chosen career really consist of.

In order to be true to your beliefs each of you should quit your real estate careers and find something where you won't ever solicit someone ever, by any means, ever. Hypocrisy runs rampant here.

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#155159 - 07/13/07 06:27 AM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Bay Area Brian]
Jennifer Allan Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 11/12/06
Posts: 1624
Loc: The Beach
Brian,

I don't know if I agree about door knocking and mailing to be the same thing, but to answer your questions... No, I did not mail things (except to my opt-in SOI) and no, I NEVER called a stranger to ask for business. Mainly due to the same reason I don't want to be door-knocked - I highly value my privacy and therefore respect the privacy of others.

My career (selling real estate or otherwise) has never consisted of soliciting. I provide a product or service that some people want. Those who want it, contact me for it. It's a wonderful way to run a business for an introvert like me!

If you don't mind being solicited by others, then perhaps you can make a stronger argument for doing it yourself. Those of us who don't like to be marketed to probably don't do it to others.
_________________________
Jennifer Allan-Hagedorn, GRI
RE/MAX Hall of Fame
Author of Sell with Soul, Creating an Extraordinary Career in Real Estate without Losing Your Friends, Your Principles or Your Self-Respect

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#155163 - 07/13/07 06:52 AM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Jennifer Allan]
Perky_REALTOR Offline
Mod Squad
Major Contributor

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 7688
Loc: PA
Quote:
Are you just a bunch of wimps who can't tell someone at the door I don't wish to be disturbed and I don't do business at my front door.


Trust me. I do not mind telling people off if I feel it is needed. There is no need to call me or anyone else a "wimp". I may be a physical weakling (climbing ladders nearly cripples me with fear) but a wimp? No way.

I don't think I should have to stop what I'm doing to tell someone not to do something that a well placed, visible sign outside already does.

And I do not equate mailings with door knocking and telephoning. I do think that they are a lot of money and you have to have a lot of money to spend and wait for months, even a year, before seeing some return on that (although... an agent in my office told me yesterday that she sent out 25 hand written letters to a select group and got a listing. She did the same thing last spring. I did the same thing myself but my handwriting stinks. lol hers is very beautiful and elegant.)

I personally have seen a lot of activity as a direct result of my blog. I suppose I could call you or anyone else who doesn't blog an uneducated weenie because you don't blog, but it's too early in the day for that. I'm not persnickety enough yet.

This reminds me of homeschooling. Some people get their panties in such a bunch because other people choose a different path. Rather than saying "Okay, whatever works for you" it turns into a "Wow, you're so weird." Or "Wow, only good devoted parents homeschool."

People can be such jerks!

I do not care what you do, I'm not going to call you a weeine or anything else, but don't ignore my No Soliciting sign or you just may see exactly how "wimpy" I am!

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#155182 - 07/13/07 08:44 AM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Perky_REALTOR]
deepsea Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 607
Loc: Atlanta GA
Are we a bunch of wimps? Are you kidding? I think you should reread the posts, most of the people posting aren't against soliciting, just against soliciting people who have expressly stated their wishes not to be disturbed.

If you want to ignore the signs go ahead. Maybe you won't have your face punched and you will get a listing, good for you! What you are doing is not being a salesman, it's being a slezeball. If that's the only way you can get business, maybe you should look at the way you do business. Perhaps you aren't getting enough repeat and referrals because you don't respect people.

I have rarely had to go after business, between sign calls, responses to my advertising efforts, my web leads, and repeat and referrals I have made a great living for over 20 years. Every now and then I will go after FSBOs or expireds, but if they are on the DNC list I write them a letter and mention that out of respect for their wishes I won't ever call and probably half of them call me back and thank me.

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#155236 - 07/13/07 01:27 PM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: deepsea]
Bay Area Brian Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 613
The kind of responses I expected. Marketing, whether passive or aggressive is soliciting, and any other self imposed mindset is merely rationalization.

If you approach anyone, no matter how meekly, you are asking for something and are soliciting, no one in this business is out there is giving anything away without any strings attached, any form of advertising is soliciting, any offer or introduction with the intent of getting potential business is soliciting.

I don't care what you call it, a rose is a rose, and dog poop is dog poop. The only difference is you are either doing it on the down low, or are very upfront. Call it what you want, you are really soliciting, and it just doesn't apply to doorbells. You don't solicit in this business, no matter what form it takes, you are out of business.

Oh, someone disturbed me at home, how dare they. Well maybe I don't want you to disturb me at home, or by mail, or by phone, or on my television set or radio, or in my newspaper or in person at gathering or anywhere else, yet because the only place I can put a no soliciting sign is at my door. And because you don't ring it, your still disturbing me through other vehicles, but you think your holy because you didn't ring my bell. Get over it, your soliciting no matter how holy you think your method is.

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#155240 - 07/13/07 01:55 PM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Bay Area Brian]
Paul Oaks Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 3370
Loc: Central Illinois
Brian,
Get over yourself! Your are on the wrong side of this and seem to be in denial.

Yes marketing is soliciting but you are not imposing yourself directly on someone despite their desire that you not bother them.

DNC came about because of mass telemarketers constantly bothered people at times they did not want to be disturbed.

Sorting your mail over the trash can is not that much of an imposition but ask anyone and they will tell you they hate junk mail. The key to direct mail is to make it noticable and short and to the point. If it is a service they are looking for they will not consign you to the trash.

Advertising on the internet comes in a few varieties one being the banner ads which are part of the site. They are here for all to see and are effective. The worst are those damn pop up ads for anything and everything. Pop Ups are the same as those that knock on my door thinking that the No Soliciting sign cannot possible apply to them. The best kind of internet advertising is using the search engine becuse you get the people that are looking for what you have to sell.

Your problem is that you are an Inconsiderate Jacka$$ that feels you are justified in imposing yourself on someone despite their clear desire not to be distrubed by you! That is the bottom line! Everthing else is just you attempting to justify what you are doing.

Originally Posted By: Bay Area Brian
The kind of responses I expected. Marketing, whether passive or aggressive is soliciting, and any other self imposed mindset is merely rationalization.

If you approach anyone, no matter how meekly, you are asking for something and are soliciting, no one in this business is out there is giving anything away without any strings attached, any form of advertising is soliciting, any offer or introduction with the intent of getting potential business is soliciting.

I don't care what you call it, a rose is a rose, and dog poop is dog poop. The only difference is you are either doing it on the down low, or are very upfront. Call it what you want, you are really soliciting, and it just doesn't apply to doorbells. You don't solicit in this business, no matter what form it takes, you are out of business.

Oh, someone disturbed me at home, how dare they. Well maybe I don't want you to disturb me at home, or by mail, or by phone, or on my television set or radio, or in my newspaper or in person at gathering or anywhere else, yet because the only place I can put a no soliciting sign is at my door. And because you don't ring it, your still disturbing me through other vehicles, but you think your holy because you didn't ring my bell. Get over it, your soliciting no matter how holy you think your method is.
_________________________
Paul Oaks
Oaks Real Estate Group

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#155245 - 07/13/07 02:34 PM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Paul Oaks]
vk60546 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 254
Loc: Office is in Naperville, IL
Hi Paul, do you think that "no soliciting" applies to government workers (i.e. those that want you to vote for a certain candidate)?

And if it's ok for a government employee to knock on my door, even if there were a no soliciting sign, then why should it be forbidden for me to knock on the door of the residence of that government employee?

Call it what you want, but with so many rules and regulations you will soon have to call a lawyer before picking up a phone. That's getting to be ridiculous.

Also, how about those kids on the Haloween? Do the "No Soliciting" signs apply to them as well?

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