Is there religious content in Buffini class?

Posted by: seattlemetal

Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 04/28/07 06:33 PM

I havent taken the course yet (100 days to greatness) is there religious content in it?
Posted by: REODayton

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 04/28/07 06:59 PM

I've never taken the class but I have listened to him alot. He may say God once in a while but not trying to convert or use religious overtones.

Just curious though. Why would you ask such a question?
Posted by: seattlemetal

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 04/28/07 07:12 PM

I saw a piece of paper around the office that said buffini on it that had references to god....

obviously that may not be something that everyone wants to hear in a business class, especially when you pay $400 for it and it wasnt disclosed to you as such...kwim?
Posted by: REODayton

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 04/28/07 08:21 PM

I have only listened to parts of the but class but never taken the course. The context was an "oh my God" during an story he was telling. It's not a religion course though. Actually he is pretty entertaining while he teaches.
Posted by: Carla in Colorado Springs

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 04/28/07 09:51 PM

I don't think he makes any reference in the 100 Days class. I have heard him quote a verse from the Bible once, but it was talking about how perseverance develops character- not anything that should offend anyone; perseverance does develop character.
Posted by: Texas

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 04/28/07 10:33 PM

I don't see how or why mentioning "God" would need to be disclosed even for a business class. Am I missing something?
Posted by: Agent 007

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 04/29/07 10:23 AM

Because people that are not religious that are paying for the program do not want to hear religious content.
Posted by: smg

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 04/29/07 10:40 AM

Originally Posted By: Agent 007
Because people that are not religious that are paying for the program do not want to hear religious content.


Case in point...Me. I am in the middle of the 100 Days program and I have not heard any references to religion. I would be pretty surprised if I did.
Posted by: Artiste

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 04/29/07 11:01 AM

IMO, it's not religious in a "bring you to the light and the gloray of the lard jebus!" but he does mention using his church in his SOI and something else about how "evil should not prosper" but it does in regards to malicious agents who scoop deals and mistreat clients. Maybe some other stuff too - but not enough that I felt he was advocating one belief over another.

Posted by: Texas

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 04/29/07 01:34 PM

With regards to people who are not religious not wanting to hear religious content in the program, the same thing could be said about any group. Someone might not be a hunter, but the program uses a hunting analogy. I just don't understand why it matters if the message is clear and relates to business.
Posted by: Dee in Austin

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 04/29/07 02:53 PM

Buffini respects all faiths. He doesn't preach or teach religious stuff. He believes in us having balance in our lives, which often means some sort of spiritual connection, but that's up to the individual.

He has some quotes that are his favorites, but will tell you to substitute "God" for spirit, etc. or whatever word you want if you want to use the quote. For instance, my favorite affirmation is "I relax, I do my best, and let X handle the rest". You can say "God", "life", or something else if you want to use that affirmation.
Posted by: MaxReferrals

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/01/07 04:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Texas
With regards to people who are not religious not wanting to hear religious content in the program, the same thing could be said about any group. Someone might not be a hunter, but the program uses a hunting analogy. I just don't understand why it matters if the message is clear and relates to business.


Because this is America -- and people get freaked out
when others start mentioning religion to them.



Posted by: zephyr

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/05/07 08:32 AM



Because this is America -- and people get freaked out
when others start mentioning religion to them.



[/quote]

Then it doesn't seem muck like America anymore, does it?
Posted by: KevCrawford

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/05/07 09:36 AM

Even if he does, who cares? If you're looking to be offended by something, you will be.

If he mentions Jesus, does it automatically make everything that he taught worthless?

People need to stop looking to be offended. If you want the knowledge, take the course. If Jesus' name comes up, your ears will not burn. Get over it.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/05/07 11:47 AM

I don't know which is more offensive..being a Christian or being a Republican. LOL

Then you have Christian democrats who offend the Christian republicans...

Can't we all just get along? I don't get offended if someone makes mention of Allah or Buddha or Mohammad (sp?)? I really don't. I do not care if someone says Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays. I don't mind if someone uses their faith to make a point.

One of the most respected speakers in the business - Zig Ziglar - often used churchy type illustrations to make a point. The point was still valid, he wasn't preachin' at ya to git saved or burn...

Religion is intertwined in the life of a person of faith. If you're not a person of faith then your philosophy or whatever you call it is intertwined in your very being. Should you be told to stifle it cause you disagree? Or can't we just all agree to disagree and respect each other and get over it?
Posted by: smg

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/05/07 12:41 PM

I have interest in hearing any of it when I am in training. But, I would not say anything, I would not get offended. I would just tune it out and wait until things got back on topic. I do not think it is at all appropriate to inject ones spiritual beliefs into a sales training course.
I am in the middle of Buffini training, I like it and I have not heard any mentions of this at all.
Posted by: seattlemetal

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/23/07 08:54 PM

update....I'm in the first week, my broker passed out 'Daily Affirmations" we say them at the end of class every day.

one of them says "I relax, do my best and let god take care of the rest"

it says "Turning Point Retreat" at the top, ad has a Buffini trademark at the bottom.....so aparently its from the retreat, and perhaps my broker id decide to include it on her own...but yet...here I am in class every day expected to say something that I personally find offensive (not the belief, but that I must say it.)

and I paid $400 for it.

I have been just reading the first part "I relax and do my best" and then I just shut up while the others say the rest.

so...do I 'come out' to my broker and ask for understanding on why I dont want to participate in the god related portions of the class and risk her looking down on me?

what would you all do if you were in my position?



Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/23/07 09:03 PM

If I were in your position, I would frankly, just not get uptight over it.

As a Christian, I have to overlook and "grin and bear" a LOT of crap EVERY DAY that I find personally offensive....yeah, even stuff I've paid for.

Are you getting anything worthwhile out of the class? Then focus on that. It's like everything else in life, you keep the meat and spit out the bones.

There are going to be things that you find offensive, that you disagree with, that you don't like. You can either raise a stink over it or you can just choose to ignore it.

This isn't a social injustice, this isn't about oppressing anyone, this isn't about breaking the law. It's a philosophy that you don't agree with.

Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/23/07 09:15 PM

Speaking from experience here. My husband and I have different religious beliefs. I have sat through many a church service and when the time comes for prayer I bow my head and say MY mantra. Believe me no one notices. Even the first time my husband was wondering what I was up to. Just say quietly something that you believe in. I'm willing to bet good money my husband is saying a Christian prayer quietly when he is at my center. Unless they ask you to lead the group in prayer it shouldn't be a problem. Now if this is something that is going to continue with your broker you should consider if you want to stay or find a new office.
Posted by: undercoveragent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/24/07 08:39 AM

If I was paying for a course, I'd rather know up front if it had an additional religious agenda. There are many ways to encourage and inspire people without making religious references.

The US does not have a national religion, therefore it is inappropriate to include religion in this type of activity, unless you disclose it.

I can sit in a church for a wedding, or bow my head at a dinner table while people say grace, but I will not happily participate in a religious lecture diguised as a training session.

If I'd paid $400 I would be annoyed enough to make a compaint/suggestion.
Posted by: REODayton

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/24/07 11:15 AM

In stead of saying " Let God do the Rest' proclaim yourseld as your own God, insert your name and carry on.

Take away from the training what you can and disregard the "G" word. If it that offensive talk to the Instructor and ask for a refund. Don't take the entire class then say you were offended because of the religious content.

I go to a Church once in a while because my Daughter enjoys it. She is Catholic, me im really nothing. I sit there and keep my daughter happy. I don't agree with alot of their teachings, but who am I to judge. My wife is Catholic so I support their beliefs. I support the teachings by supporting them and drinking beer at the fundraisers. I have also plucked a few clients out of the church, so it works for me. I also know a few Wiccans. I find there religion just crazy personally, but hey, who am I to Judge their beliefs. Wiccans are fun to talk to, and have been clients as well.

Religion is a very personnal thing. You believe in something, you do not believe in something, who cares? That is what is great about this country, you can believe in what you want, and have the right to walk away if you are offended. I offened people when I say "God D@@nit". I apoligize when it happens and move on.

At the end of the day, this course is not about religion! Its about selling Real Estate. If the word God, Budhah, Goddess, White, Black, Asian, Mexican or any other religion, race, sex, sexual orientation, comes up they are teaching it. They are TEACHING REAL ESTATE.

You could become part of the problem in this country and hire an Attorney to bring a Multi Million Dollar lawsuit though because you heard the word God. Sadley enough, the Orginization just may pay you off a small sum to make you walk away.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/24/07 01:06 PM

Originally Posted By: undercoveragent
but I will not happily participate in a religious lecture diguised as a training session.

If I'd paid $400 I would be annoyed enough to make a compaint/suggestion.


It doesn't sound to me like it's a religious lecture disguised as a training session - from what has been given so far. To me it sounds like some religious comments or inferences are peppered here and there but are not the focal point of the session.

If there is a feedback card at the end of the course, I would state your concerns there. If it really, really, REALLY bothers you that much then don't wait for the comment card, write a letter to the instructor and to the organization itself with your complaints.

I just wonder if it's the fact that it's mentioning God specifically that's the problem. If reference was made to a "higher power" instead, or if it was being taught from a Taoistic POV or any other non-Christian philosophy,....I wonder if it would be just as offensive...or would it be easier to overlook?

It seems to me that people just seem to go out of their way looking to be offended by something. But that's only my opinion.
Posted by: seattlemetal

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/24/07 06:30 PM

of course its not the focal point of the class, and I am getting al I can out of the clas, but to expect everyone to stand up and chant together about trusting god to do th rest, I feel, is inappropriate.

I mean...for the christians in here, how would you feel if you were expected to stand up with the class and chant about Buddah or Allah or something like that? you cant tell me that it wouldnt affect you....
Posted by: seattlemetal

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/24/07 06:32 PM

also FWIW...I simply am NOT going to trust anyone, real or ficticious, but myself to get this done....so to stand up and say that I am....I just cant do that.
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/24/07 06:53 PM

Seattle is this class being offered through your broker? Or is this a class you are taking elsewhere? If it is part of your office speaking as a non christian I would feel uncomfortable enough to change offices. If is not through your office how long is the class?
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/24/07 06:57 PM

If I were asked to stand up and do something like that, I would stand up and remain silent....or I would just remain sitting and wait depending on my mood.

I might make a comment after class or something like I suggested above.

In the grand scheme of things, this is "the small stuff." I would say you have something to be upset over if the instructor sees you not participating and then calls you out about it. Then you have something to be upset over.
Posted by: smg

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/25/07 08:49 AM

I am a participant in Buffinis 100 Days to Greatness and I have not been asked to chant anything. I have not heard any reference to religion. I guess I may have missed it, but I doubt it.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/25/07 09:50 AM

In life, if you are uncomfortable, look within and then decide how to handle it - participate, don't participate, take it in stride, make a stink, walk out, demand a refund, it's totally up to you.

If the broker is religious and you are not and that would make you uncomfortable, find another broker - they are a dime a dozen these days!

I did rule out one broker because he told me in the interview that Jesus had made him very successful.
Posted by: Paceryder

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/25/07 11:23 AM

I wouldn't care if the broker said Jesus made him successful as long as the training involved more than asking Jesus to help me. smile
Posted by: Jeff Adams

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/25/07 01:59 PM

seattlemetal, did you get bent out of shape saying the pledge of allegiance at school? I can understand if you feel you are being indoctrinated into a religion, but allowing an affirmation that is just reminding you to "let it go if you can't be in control" to bother you seems trivial.
Posted by: That 20something RE Guy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/25/07 02:00 PM

Most of the training courses i've gone through , seminars i've been in ,ect. All have religious references........If listening to a lecture where someone mentions God a few times is going to boost your production........Why on earth would it matter? I went to a Brian Tracy event and he quoted the bible several times, improved my production and outlook a ton...It was well worth the $150 admission that was paid by my broker smile
Posted by: OneFeePlus.com

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/27/07 12:47 AM

I have my testimony on my website and every email I send out says God Bless you and your family

God is even mentioned on the money we are using to pay for these $400 courses just so we can get more of the money that mentions God.

Last I checked we had the right to free speech and as I have my right to say God Bless you you have a right to say no thanks.

When we all start trying to be so politically correct if affects our free speech there is something wrong.

By the way Merry Christmas!!

Danny
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/27/07 04:56 AM

Season's Greetings OneFeePlus.com
If I was given a choice to use money with God on it or money without God that would be free speech as it is I either use it or I can't purchase anything. Would you be happy using money that says "In Buddha we trust"?
Posted by: Troy Richardson

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/27/07 06:21 AM

Yes, everyone has the right to free speech, but do you realize how your free speech affects others.

If your email, voicemail and website say things like "Have a blessed day" or "Go With God" do you know how many potential customers you're sending away?

Personally, I don't care if you pray at the alter of an upside down dead chicken - I don't want to know about it as a potential customer. And I have actually stopped using stores and salespeople who do "express" their free speech.

I would not take a course that had pre-printed material slanted towards a specific religeon. Yes, there may be good content, but the fact that someone felt it necessary to print that on materials and be culturally insensitive to the people PAYING for the materials makes me question what else might be weaved into the content. For example, if this particular course has follow up coaching or something like that, are the instructors going to be less likely to help me once they figure out that I'm not the same religeon, or perhaps they don't approve of my lifestyle?

You might be turning off more customers than you're turning on.

Unless you only want to do business with people just like you- which in itself is admirable, but cuts down on your pool of potential customers.

Everyone IS too sensitive to being politically correct, and saying "Merry Christmas" to my Jewish customer by accident would probably be overlooked, but I've trained myself to NOT say that, so that I appear more sensitive to cultural differences, and not an ignorant oaf who thinks that there is only one "right" religeon.

And DON'T jump on me thinking that I just called you ignorant, I didn't! I'm saying that people who don't TRY to be culturally sensitive could be PERCEIVED as ignorant.
Posted by: alamorealtor

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/27/07 06:47 AM

This is slightly of topic. An agent from a new Real Estate company was sharing a certification class with me. We hit it off pretty well and things were going great. We were exchanging some ideas on marketing when he tried to recruit me while we were in class. That alone is a big no-no. In the middle of the conversation he stated: "I assume you are Christian?"

I asked him if that was a requirement of working with his broker. I also told him it was not a good idea to assume anything. Point here is religion and politics have no place in the business world. The risk of offending someone is too great. Why not just do your job and leave religion out of it.

As far as Buffini goes, I've taken the class. The only reference he made to religion was to illustrate that we should be honest and respect the client's money. I got the point and never felt a sermon was in place. All of these guys are part motivational speakers. They have to have some general basis for good and bad behavior to make a point. As long as that is all there is to it, fine.
Posted by: Ms. Champion

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/27/07 10:09 AM

Interesting discussion...

I'm with those who feel that religion should be left out of business. "PC" aside, there is no reason anyone should be chastised to tolerate religious content injected into training of any kind. That amounts to tacit acceptance. It is just inappropriate IMO to mix religion and business if the business isn't specifically religion-related. And real estate isn't.

The problem here isn't "PC," the problem is the kind of assumption made mentioned by alamorealtor above. If Christians are "assuming" that others are Christian (other religions in this country are FAR less likely to make automatic assumptions of common membership) then there is an impact. We are all familiar with historical (and perhaps personal) examples where there has been differential treatment based on religion. We can't be doing that in real estate...

Unfortunately there are still many who believe that if you're not a member of their faith, you are less morally upright or somehow misguided or lost. This arrogant viewpoint is so wrong...if you want to talk about "PC" then why are these people not being encouraged to accept *others* as moral equals? Such people feel that they should be accepted for every religious expression that they make, but they harbor a holier-than-thou view of non-believers. Double standard? Yep.

Anyway....in business one ought to avoid encouraging subcultural favoritism, IMO. Whether religion of any kind is "part and parcel" of anyone's life is irrelevant. Bringing religion into business with no regard to what DIFFERENT beliefs clients or co-workers or customers may hold is disrespectful at best, and proselytizing at worst.
Posted by: navarac

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/27/07 10:23 AM

Quote:

[I have my testimony on my website and every email I send out says God Bless you and your family

God is even mentioned on the money we are using to pay for these $400 courses just so we can get more of the money that mentions God.

Last I checked we had the right to free speech and as I have my right to say God Bless you you have a right to say no thanks.

When we all start trying to be so politically correct if affects our free speech there is something wrong.

By the way Merry Christmas!!

Danny ]




This is a mistake. The public does not need or want to know THAT you pray or TO WHOM you pray.

A good portion of the public looks down on people who are TOO religious. Meaning people who feel a neurotic need to display their affiliation for public observation.

Religious "testimony" on a business website is a terrible idea. It completely distracts and detracts from your purpose, and weakens your perceived character and intellect.

I think religion needs to be a PERSONAL issue. Like personal hygiene, it need not be displayed or discussed.

Remember, ethics is a SECULAR topic and should always be discussed in the context of rational behaviour and perfecting ourselves as social animals. It should be discussed and debated NOT in the context of mysticism or emotionalism, but as we discuss biology or engineering.

I don't need or want any "blessings" from your website or e-mails. Just a professional and personal pledge to act ethically here on Earth in the only world that counts, the real world.

Thank you.
Posted by: smg

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/27/07 12:11 PM

I do not think it is amy more appropriate than talking about sexuality or po;itics. It is extrememly personal and if someone brings up references to religion in the course of doing business, I get offended.
Posted by: Jeffo

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/27/07 01:34 PM

Originally Posted By: REODayton
I've never taken the class but I have listened to him alot. He may say God once in a while but not trying to convert or use religious overtones.

Just curious though. Why would you ask such a question?


I think SeattleMetal must be a devil-worshipper. You know how those Seattle Metalheads are. Hork down some lattes, then put on the flannel shirt and go do some devil-worship!

(I'm just kidding SM. I'm an athiest myself, so I'd be uncomfortable if there was an excess of Jebus in a business presentation too. And I'm a rock-n-roll guitarist.)

-jeff
Posted by: Jeffo

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/27/07 01:36 PM

Political correctness: the notion that it's possible to pick up the turd by the CLEAN end.

-jeff
Posted by: navarac

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/27/07 02:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Jeff Olsen

(I'm just kidding SM. I'm an athiest myself, so I'd be uncomfortable if there was an excess of Jebus in a business presentation too. And I'm a rock-n-roll guitarist.)

-jeff


Cool. My brother in law is the lead guitarist for Dream Theatre.
Unfortunately he's religious. Oh well, nobody is perfect...
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/27/07 02:16 PM

Troy you summed that up nicely. I was told when I was first in the business by my trainer to keep all religious reference's out when putting together a bio or any other marketing material.

Troy I might care about praying at the alter of an upside down dead chicken but only when it comes time to listing the house and they have a personal alter set up in the living room! Past that I don't care if they howl at a full moon, dance naked in the town square or pray to a dead chicken. That said you don't have to do business with someone that makes you uncomfortable but if you can do business with someone who has antlers over the fireplace what's wrong with a little dead chicken alter?

Business and religion really don't mix. Let it be your guide for how you run your business but it can be a quiet one silently working in the background.
Posted by: Agent 007

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/27/07 04:12 PM

Wow. This topic really hits a lot of people. I too believe that religion, sexuality and politics should be left out of the business world.
Posted by: Jeffo

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/27/07 06:38 PM

I would imagine that belonging to a large church would be an excellent networking tool... sometimes I feel that the fact that I'm not a churchgoer hamstrings me somewhat in the rural community I live outside of. Everybody sort of knows what everyone else is and does out here. On the other hand, we have two of the brightest, most well-behaved kids in the schools... my wife volunteers at the schools a LOT... and we are basically raising our kids straight and true. So screw anyone who feels I'm not a good person because I don't go to church- they are WRONG.

It's tough on my kids though, being told they are going to hell. I grew up in a small town in New Mexico, very Catholic, and so I know exactly how they feel. Christians, and I pick on them because they are by far the dominant religious paradigm in this country, have NO IDEA how oppressive they are, as a group.

-jeff
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/27/07 08:26 PM

Jeff I can't even begin to tell you how much I understand. I may be in a large NM town but trust me is still the same. I have actually been told that because I am not a Christian I am a bad mother who shouldn't be homeschooling my children. Oh and my husband and I must have martial problems due to our difference's in religion. This of course coming from the Christians.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/27/07 09:12 PM

Sometimes it really makes me ashamed to say I'm a Christian. Not because I am ashamed of Jesus, but I am ashamed of many who take the name Christian.

The other night I felt like I was on trial because I came across a homeschooler who was quite disturbed that I no longer homeschool my children.

But to get on topic, I do not think this class instructor is belittling anyone who isn't a Christian. the crime is in the assumption that everyone in the class wants to hear what religious stuff he/she wants to add to the class. Which is why I think it would be appropriate to tell the instructor after class that you did not appreciate it and didn't want to hear it in a business class.

I do not think its worth getting "offended" over, but that's my opinion.



Posted by: seattlemetal

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/27/07 10:11 PM

I really appreciate the support/understanding from those of you who see where I'm coming from on this and I also appreciate the perspectives of those who dont....thank you!

Also, this class was required...not optional...I had asked if I could wait on the class because I couldnt afford the $400 yet, but I was told no....so from my perspective, I was forced into a class that I couldnt afford and now I'm expected to say things that I dont agree with.....

Apparently, the Daily Affirmations were something that my broker added in to the class, but it is from another Buffini class....

in any case, I'm not the type to raise a stink over anything, so I'l just continue to say "I relax and do my best and.......the rest" :o) so, if they notice, I doubt they'd have the gall to say anything....they may have already noticed, since theres only 3 people in the class, its probably pretty noticeable when I drop off for a sec :o)


Oh, By The Way....Dream Theater rocks! :o)
Posted by: Pikes Peak

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/27/07 10:37 PM

I always wondered when seeing the the Fish Symbol on the rear of a car, which is the correct way to swim, to the left, or to the right?
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/27/07 11:53 PM

I think the origins of the fish symbol would surprise most Christians:

http://www.atheists.org/christianity/fish.html
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 12:07 AM

Oh boy, where to get started...

#1 Seattlemetal, thank you for bringing this conversation to light here on the forums.
#2 Seattlemetal, in the spirit of religious tolerance, it is God, not god. Would you please edit your first and second post. If we as Christian are supposed to stand by and watch the humiliation of our beliefs, and stand quietly as not to offend anyone, the least you can do is correctly capitalize His name. I imagine you won't because you don't have to, being America and all. But we as Christians are expected to be tolerant of other peoples beliefs while ours are stomped on.
#3 Artiste, I hope that was a series of typos, but I assume not so please see above.
#4 Jeff Olsen, Christians are the persecuted ones here, sorry to burst your bubble Jeff. There was never a mention of Jesus, there was reference to God. God is also the focal point of Jews, Mormons, Catholics, Muslims and more. Who came under fire first? Christians of course.
#5 To all those who say that it is personal and should not be discussed in open conversation, this is why Christians speak more freely than they "should", If you read the Bible there is a verse,
Mathew 15:5
Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house.
I am sick of complacent Christians, another verse,
Revelation 3:16
So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.
#6 OneFeePlus.com, Although I can see where people may get the idea that what you do is bad for business, some of us can't smuggle bibles into China or be killed for trying to spread the gospel so we do what we can and everything we do, we do to glorify Him. I commend you. You recognize the fact that money is a distant 2nd to the great commission.

I do thank God, SeattleM notice the capital, for my success because without Him I wouldn't have life to be successful in. I don't care if I offend someone because I say Merry Christmas, God bless, or God Da*n for that matter. My belief is my belief and I shouldn't have to stifle it any more than you should have to be forced to listen to it, if you don't want to work with me because you are a Buddhist or an Atheist, fine. My feelings aren't hurt, but you would do nothing but benefit by working with me. I do not believe in pushy "any belief". Conversion to a faith is done after a solid understanding, convert or die and the crusades has done more harm than good for Christ. If you are going to rip me apart by all means do so, an insult for standing up for Christ is a medal of honor to me.

I am insulted by the complete lack of respect for Christianity on a subject that hypocrites talk of cultural understanding and religious tolerance.
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 12:12 AM

Hold on...
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 12:13 AM

Oh my gawd. That was intense. I hate to break it to you, but forcing your religion on others is criminal, from my perspective (your reference to smuggling bibles into China). Did you ever stop to consider other people's religions are just as dear to them as yours is to you? Who are you to force your beliefs on others?

Have you ever heard of ethnocentrism? You embody that.

Why isn't it enough for you to pray to whomever you wish to pray to and leave everyone else alone?

Really, what is the motive in forcing your patriarchal religion on others?

Post Script:

Mormons and Catholics are Christians. How could you not know that?

Please, pray to Jesus that you will become more tolerant of others!
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 12:16 AM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
Oh my gawd. That was intense. I hate to break it to you, but forcing your religion on others is criminal, from my perspective (your reference to smuggling bibles into China). Did you ever stop to consider other people's religions are just as dear to them as yours is to you? Who are you to force your beliefs on others?

Have you ever heard of ethnocentrism? You embody that.

Why isn't it enough for you to pray to whomever you wish to pray to and leave everyone else alone?

Really, what is the motive in forcing your patriarchal religion on others?

Post Script:

Mormons and Catholics are Christians. How could you not know that?

Please, pray to Jesus that you will become more tolerant of others!


Thank you for being so tolerant of others religion, go to the bible and look up The Great Commission. That is why. I never said that I would force religion down anyones throat, but I have a right to believe what I believe how I believe it. Why should I have to be quiet when my belief tells me not to be? See lamp stand post above for reference. Also, if Mormons and Catholics were Christian then they would be called Christians, read up a little and you will see that there are major differences. Just because they believe in Christ does not make them Christians.
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 12:17 AM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
I think the origins of the fish symbol would surprise most Christians:

http://www.atheists.org/christianity/fish.html

So did the cross, early Christians used the Icthus symbol to relate to one another and go undetected by the Romans persecutors. A Christian would stand and with his sandal make the top arc of the fish, if the person he was talking to was a fellow Christian then he would complete the bottom half of the fish with his sandal, the lower arc.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 12:23 AM

Who said you had to be quiet? Just answer these questions:

1) Where did you get the idea that you should force your religion on others through "missionary" tactics? Do you realize how many indigenous religions Christianty has wiped out in this way?

2) Why do you insist your religion is superior to other religions? (See number one, above)

3) What do you think of the Crusades? The Inquision? Would you have participated as a good Christian?

4) In retrospect, did you support the burning of witches in Europe, the U.S., and god knows where else?

5) Do you think you are superior to others because of your religious affiliation?

6) Do you really believe god is a "him?"

Just curious . . .
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 12:30 AM

Uh Hum... God, not god... religious tolerance and all... I'm getting to the questions.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 12:30 AM

Mormons and Catholics are Christians. Your belief that they are not is ignorant and is just another way to try to elevate your particular brand of Christianity - to make yourself superior in some way.
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 12:38 AM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
Who said you had to be quiet? Just answer these questions:

1) Where did you get the idea that you should force your religion on others through "missionary" tactics? Do you realize how many indigenous religions Christianty has wiped out in this way?

Please see link; For reference

2) Why do you insist your religion is superior to other religions? (See number one, above)

Because I believe the Bible, it's not just a nice story.

3) What do you think of the Crusades? The Inquision? Would you have participated as a good Christian?

Please see last paragraph of the original post. And then below...


4) In retrospect, did you support the burning of witches in Europe, the U.S., and god knows where else?

No, vengeance is God's

5) Do you think you are superior to others because of your religious affiliation?

No, I am a servant to all those around me.

6) Do you really believe god is a "him?"

In Genesis God appeared before Abraham as a man, I don't doubt God could be whatever he wanted.

Just curious . . .
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 12:44 AM

I doubt that anything I say will raise your consciousness . . . do you dream? Do you believe in dinosaurs? Do you realize how old the Earth is? Do you understand how women have been denigrated by Christianity? What do you make of religions prior to Christianity? What about all of the millions and billions of people who came before Christianity? Are they burning in hell as we speak? Are Buddhists and Hindus just misguided, even though their religions are much older than Christianity?

And so on.
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 12:44 AM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
Mormons and Catholics are Christians. Your belief that they are not is ignorant and is just another way to try to elevate your particular brand of Christianity - to make yourself superior in some way.

No, I do not pray to Mary and I believe that when Christ died for me, my sin died with Him so now I may have open dialect with God, I also believe that Christ will come to Earth again to take care of Satan in the end times, Catholics do not.
As far as Mormons vs. Christians please see link; for reference
Please do research in to the differences in religions before making an assumption like that. Assumptions are the reasons we get in trouble with religious differences.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 12:46 AM

Ask the Catholics and the Mormons if they are Christian.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 12:50 AM

I have studied world religions at the graduate level. What is your education in this area?
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 12:51 AM

Please address my questions on the next to the last post on the bottom of page six.
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 12:55 AM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
I doubt that anything I say will raise your consciousness . . . do you dream? Yes Do you believe in dinosaurs? Yes Do you realize how old the Earth is? No, but I would guess somewhere in the really really old category, do you? Do you understand how women have been denigrated by Christianity? In a time where women were next to slaves politically, the Bible has two books devoted to them,in context that is saying a lot. What do you make of religions prior to Christianity? Judaism predates Christianity by centuries. What about all of the millions and billions of people who came before Christianity? I don't know, I don't claim to know everything, but Christ said that the only way to the Father is through the Son. Some believe that they are in Purgatory Are they burning in hell as we speak? Are Buddhists and Hindus just misguided, even though their religions are much older than Christianity? Judaism dates back to creation, not really sure if we have any artifacts from Adam and Eve's time though...

And so on.


Have you read the Bible?
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 12:57 AM

Let's see, according to you, "Judaism dates back to creation" yet you say you believe in dinosaurs. Care to elaborate?
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 12:58 AM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
Ask the Catholics and the Mormons if they are Christian.

Ok, and when they say yes? They believe in similar doctrine, that is like saying apples are oranges are the same because they both grow on trees.
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 01:01 AM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
Let's see, according to you, "Judaism dates back to creation" yet you say you believe in dinosaurs. Care to elaborate?

There are bones, so yes I believe in dinosaurs, Genesis does not outline every creature that was created, so your theory states because Genesis didn't say God created Gnats then Gnats don't exist?
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 01:04 AM

I am sorry, I don't understand what you said. Can you clarify? If you think that the world was created "centuries" before the advent of Christianity, then how do you explain the EXTREMELY OLD bones found of dinosaurs?

Are dinosaurs discussed in the Christian bible?
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 01:05 AM

On the issue of Mormons and Catholics, re: Christianity, are you saying that they are wrong to claim themselves as Christian?

I thought Christianity was about inclusion, not exclusion.

How many Christian sects or cults hold this belief?
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 01:07 AM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
I am sorry, I don't understand what you said. Can you clarify? If you think that the world was created "centuries" before the advent of Christianity, then how do you explain the EXTREMELY OLD bones found of dinosaurs? Please see link for reference

Are dinosaurs discussed in the Christian bible? Please see previous post


Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 01:08 AM

Speaking of gnats, do you believe in evolution? If not, how to you explain gnats?
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 01:13 AM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
On the issue of Mormons and Catholics, re: Christianity, are you saying that they are wrong to claim themselves as Christian?

I thought Christianity was about inclusion, not exclusion. Well on a graduate level I would imagine they would delve deeper into this, but since they didn't, Christianity is not about inclusion, in a previous post I referenced why I was sick of complacent Christians due to a lukewarm analogy, many will call themselves Christians, but a label means nothing. God knows your heart and mine, Christianity is nothing more than a name tag. It means nothing if you don't act like a Christian. I am not saying these people will not go to Heaven, I don't know only He does.

How many Christian sects or cults hold this belief? Huh?
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 01:13 AM

This kind of thinking is what gives Christians a bad rap.

You are basically saying (by what that link says) that dinosaurs walked the Earth around the time of Jesus or the advent of Judaism. It must have been a very strange time, indeed.

Do you try to avoid science as much as possible? I bet you can't even read National Geographic because you might read something that goes against your religion which says the Earth is a maximum of what, 7,000 years old?

How old do you think the Earth is?
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 01:16 AM

Catholics and Mormons might take exception to your bigoted ideas regarding who is included and who is excluded in the mantle of Christianity.
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 01:17 AM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
Speaking of gnats, do you believe in evolution? If not, how to you explain gnats?

I do believe in evolution to an extent, we didn't come from monkey's but penicillin proves an evolutionary factor. Same thing when Columbus came to America and fever spread through the Native Americans, the colonists where immune to things that ravaged the Native Americans. I don't believe in Darwinism, there is a difference. What is the reference to the Gnat?
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 01:20 AM

Another myth: Columbus never landed in America! Check it out!

Why would a "true" Christian, one who doesn't believe in evolution, believe in the complexity of this universe? What would be the purpose of a gnat to a Christian?
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 01:23 AM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
This kind of thinking is what gives Christians a bad rap. Exactly, standing up for what I believe in, so much for tolerance, huh?

You are basically saying (by what that link says) that dinosaurs walked the Earth around the time of Jesus or the advent of Judaism. It must have been a very strange time, indeed. Maybe, I wasn't there, but why not? Were you?

Do you try to avoid science as much as possible? There is Christian science, intelligent design etc... I bet you can't even read National Geographic because you might read something that goes against your religion which says the Earth is a maximum of what, 7,000 years old? Actually, I own a nice one with lots of pictures.

How old do you think the Earth is? I already answered this above, really really old.


You never answered my question about reading the bible though...
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 01:24 AM

http://muweb.millersville.edu/~columbus/data/art/USATODA1.ART

Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 01:25 AM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
Another myth: Columbus never landed in America! Check it out!

Why would a "true" Christian, one who doesn't believe in evolution, believe in the complexity of this universe? What would be the purpose of a gnat to a Christian?


Hey now, no patronizing, we are having a nice discussion and I would like to continue it. I am sure, without being a Gnat expert, that they are very productive to society in some way or another. I'll see what I can dig up.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 01:26 AM

Ok, I have had enough. I do have one final question for this evening:

When presented with *new* information, do you automatically shut down. Have you decided to ignore all information that doesn't fit into your world view?

Or can you open your mind?

If the religion thing is too scary for you to think logically and openly about, how about the question of where Columbus REALLY landed. That has nothing to do with Christianity, so you are free to discover the truth. Are you open to that?
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 01:27 AM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
http://muweb.millersville.edu/~columbus/data/art/USATODA1.ART


Yup, wasn't there either.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 01:28 AM

Goddess bless you!
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 01:28 AM

When you say you think the world is "really old," what number are you attaching to that in your mind?
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 01:30 AM

Just personally, if you care to share, where did your religious ideas come from? How did you come to have them? How were you introduced to them?
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 01:34 AM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
Ok, I have had enough. I do have one final question for this evening:

When presented with *new* information, do you automatically shut down. Have you decided to ignore all information that doesn't fit into your world view?

Or can you open your mind?

If the religion thing is too scary for you to think logically and openly about, how about the question of where Columbus REALLY landed. That has nothing to do with Christianity, so you are free to discover the truth. Are you open to that?

No but wait, I don't care where Columbus landed, I am here in America, he probably had something to do with that and if not let's find out who did so we can get an extra holiday! Seriously though, I did have a very good time talking with you and I hope you don't think I am shoving my religion down your throat, I never brought it up until the majority said that I should pipe down. I am not pushy and don't think I came across that way, at least I hope. Please do a little more research into Christianity, I am not saying that condescendingly, I mean that whole heartedly. I am not a push over Christian and new ideas and facts are carefully considered. I am not closed minded, but people far smarter than you and I have debated this and I can point out some great lecture reading if you are interested. We part as friends in my book, hope we do the same in yours. Good night, now off to Hollywood video so I don't get late fees!
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 01:40 AM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
Just personally, if you care to share, where did your religious ideas come from? How did you come to have them? How were you introduced to them?

The Bible, and discussion with peers and colleagues. I found Christianity when I was very young, it was a weird introduction, but I don't care to go into that.
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 02:09 AM

Originally Posted By: Prodigy
We part as friends in my book, hope we do the same in yours. Good night, now off to Hollywood video so I don't get late fees!


Guess not then...
Posted by: Jeffo

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 03:43 AM

Wow... just... Wow!

The universe is a mysterious place. Various cults and covents and who knows what have come up with various ways to describe the more indescribable parts of it. In my opinion, of all the major religious texts, the Bible ranks pretty far down there even as an expression of civility, rationality, compassion, or hopefullness -all of which I hold dear- so I cancelled my subscription not long after I was baptized! If I'm going to hell so be it- but I will say this. If *I* am going to hell, then your God is just plain vindicative and stupid.

I suggest the following book for some tough-love clarity on the subject:

http://www.amazon.com/Letter-Christian-Nation-Sam-Harris/dp/0307265773

He makes some pretty compelling arguments as to why I have good reason to not live by that archaic, brutal, immoral book. Well, the irony is I DO live by the better parts of it... and I'm not a Christian... go figger...

-jeff
Posted by: Paul Oaks

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 04:08 AM

Adam,
I just have to jump in on your statement that Catholics are not Christian. As a Catholic I can say with total certanity that Catholisim is definately a Christian religion. To say otherwise is just totally Ignorant! Who was the moron that told you otherwise. Check the Websters definition for Christian and you will see this as #1
one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ

Originally Posted By: Prodigy
Originally Posted By: changeagent
Mormons and Catholics are Christians. Your belief that they are not is ignorant and is just another way to try to elevate your particular brand of Christianity - to make yourself superior in some way.

No, I do not pray to Mary and I believe that when Christ died for me, my sin died with Him so now I may have open dialect with God, I also believe that Christ will come to Earth again to take care of Satan in the end times, Catholics do not.
As far as Mormons vs. Christians please see link; for reference
Please do research in to the differences in religions before making an assumption like that. Assumptions are the reasons we get in trouble with religious differences.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 09:23 AM

*sigh*
Posted by: smg

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 09:52 AM

Originally Posted By: Prodigy
Oh boy, where to get started...

#1 Seattlemetal, thank you for bringing this conversation to light here on the forums.
#2 Seattlemetal, in the spirit of religious tolerance, it is God, not god. Would you please edit your first and second post. If we as Christian are supposed to stand by and watch the humiliation of our beliefs, and stand quietly as not to offend anyone, the least you can do is correctly capitalize His name. I imagine you won't because you don't have to, being America and all. But we as Christians are expected to be tolerant of other peoples beliefs while ours are stomped on.
#3 Artiste, I hope that was a series of typos, but I assume not so please see above.
#4 Jeff Olsen, Christians are the persecuted ones here, sorry to burst your bubble Jeff. There was never a mention of Jesus, there was reference to God. God is also the focal point of Jews, Mormons, Catholics, Muslims and more. Who came under fire first? Christians of course.
#5 To all those who say that it is personal and should not be discussed in open conversation, this is why Christians speak more freely than they "should", If you read the Bible there is a verse,
Mathew 15:5
Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house.
I am sick of complacent Christians, another verse,
Revelation 3:16
So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.
#6 OneFeePlus.com, Although I can see where people may get the idea that what you do is bad for business, some of us can't smuggle bibles into China or be killed for trying to spread the gospel so we do what we can and everything we do, we do to glorify Him. I commend you. You recognize the fact that money is a distant 2nd to the great commission.

I do thank God, SeattleM notice the capital, for my success because without Him I wouldn't have life to be successful in. I don't care if I offend someone because I say Merry Christmas, God bless, or God Da*n for that matter. My belief is my belief and I shouldn't have to stifle it any more than you should have to be forced to listen to it, if you don't want to work with me because you are a Buddhist or an Atheist, fine. My feelings aren't hurt, but you would do nothing but benefit by working with me. I do not believe in pushy "any belief". Conversion to a faith is done after a solid understanding, convert or die and the crusades has done more harm than good for Christ. If you are going to rip me apart by all means do so, an insult for standing up for Christ is a medal of honor to me.

I am insulted by the complete lack of respect for Christianity on a subject that hypocrites talk of cultural understanding and religious tolerance.


Before you dive firther into your personal agenda, ytou may want to apologize to the original poster for hijacking his thread. I knew at some point during this thread about BRIAN BUFFINIS class that somebody would come along thumping a bible.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 10:10 AM

It's just ridiculous. This thread has nothing to do with Columbus, gnats, evolution, or Mormons.

And if this kind of crap went on in the class I'd certainly cry foul and demand a refund - even as a Christian I would!!!

Posted by: navarac

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 10:33 AM

Originally Posted By: Prodigy
Originally Posted By: changeagent
Just personally, if you care to share, where did your religious ideas come from? How did you come to have them? How were you introduced to them?

The Bible, and discussion with peers and colleagues. I found Christianity when I was very young, it was a weird introduction, but I don't care to go into that.


The bottom line is it's fine to "feel" and "believe". If it helps you through life and makes you a good person, fine.

However I draw the line at using the Bible as any sort of reference to reality. It is written by humans, for humans, and with specific purposes. As was the Constitution and the Yellow Pages.

The Bible suffers from the same foibles and weaknesses as its authors. There is some good to be gleaned, and some bad to be discarded.

I would no sooner base my life on it than I would a Harry Potter novel.

And you shouldn't either. It's just a human book, that's all.



Posted by: navarac

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 10:45 AM

I think a good part of the antipathy towards Christians arises from exposure to some of the creatures who have assumed public leadership positions.

Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, etc. Just awful terrible people who are so obviously dripping with evil yet assuming the mantle of god to further their financial empires and feed their endless power-lust.

I mean: "Moral Majority". Just the concept of it. Is it any more oppressive than the evil spoutings of any random Ayatollah?

Posted by: seattlemetal

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 11:10 AM

FWIW- Prodigy, I HAVE read the bible...cover to cover...it had ALOT to do with my transition into atheism actually.....the contradictions, the factual inaccuracies etc.....


Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 11:20 AM

On mid page seven, in answer to my question about where all of the millions/billions of people are that pre-dated the bible (i.e., are they burning in hell), you answer that they are in purgatory.

That is very interesting, given the fact that the concept of purgatory is widely believed to be of Catholic origins and you don't think Catholics are Christian, therefore your answer doesn't make sense from your own world view.

My question: "What about all of the millions and billions of people who came before Christianity?"

Your answer: "I don't know, I don't claim to know everything, but Christ said that the only way to the Father is through the Son. Some believe that they are in Purgatory"

So here are a few problems with your theories:

1) Dinosaurs did not walk the Earth with Jews, as you propose. Next crazy theory, please!
2) Where are all of the people who pre-dated Christianity, and what is your theory about the gods who came before Jesus & "Dad?"
3) How do you explain fossils, petroglyphs, pyramids, Stonehenge,
just for starters . . .
4) If a Catholic told you he was Christian, how do you respond?
5) Why do you think Christianity is superior to other religions? Do you realize by doing that that you are putting yourself in the position to fight wars based on religion? People criticize Jews and Palestinians for doing that, they criticize Muslims for doing that, but it's okay when Christians do it because Christianity really, really is the true religion, and of course it is okay to kill other people in the name of religion.

The Crusades were just an anomoly? The Inquisition was an anomoly? The burning of witches an anomoly? These activities were all driven by "The Church" (which in "the beginning" was the Catholic Church, if you have not studied the origin of Christianity . . . )

Anyway, I guess logic and facts are not key to your theories . . . obviously.

Perky just gave up before even trying to explain.

Seriously, I would like to hear someone explain some of the problems you have presented from a logical perspective.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 12:00 PM

changeagent, I have not given up, I do not like to get into discussions that just end up being circular - you say, I believe, you believe, I say...we will not solve evolution, pre-Christ people's eternal state, or dinosaurs on this thread. I have been in the internet trenches debating this stuff since 2001, and frankly, I'm tired of the arguing over it.

I prefer not to discuss this kind of stuff. I can not answer all the questions you have. I can not. So I choose not to argue it. Why is that giving up? It's much like me not advising clients on what kinds of mortage they should get - it is out of my scope of expertise, and therefore, I am unqalified to discuss or advise. I am unqualified to talk about evolution or ancient eternal implications.

It's a worthless debate, IMHO, and I prefer not to get in on it.

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT ANY OF THAT STUFF.

This thread is about religious content being presented in a sales marketing class.

*hint, hint*

Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 12:11 PM

This thread is about whatever it has evolved into . . .

Anyway, if you, or other Christians can't answer simple questions about the young earth theory versus the question of dinosaurs, what do you tell yourself about the inconsistencies that allows you to continue to believe things that make no logical sense?

I think you are saying that you *believe* despite facts to the contrary. I am just wondering about your system of thought - how you are able to do that or why you would want to dismiss facts to support beliefs that are not bound in logic (and the irony is that Christians try to use logic in their arguments, but then when they are presented with something that clearly presents a problem - such as the Earth being billions of years old - then they resort to belief . . . as in, "There are no facts to support it but I BELIEVE . . . "

WHY do you blindly believe is what I am asking?

Were you taught to dismiss facts by your parents, in school?

Does it make you nervous to think about dinosaurs, pryamids, Stonehenge, Hindus, Buddhists, etc., etc. ad naseum?

I just don't understand the thought process and am slightly fascinated by it.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 12:17 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 12:23 PM

You don't know what I'm saying, you don't know what I believe - do not attempt to guess, and I don't want to share it right now on a forum like this where people make rude comments, rip you apart, make fun of you, or accuse you of being an idiot becuase they are not face to face with you and can cower behind their keyboard.

What I believe is something very personal, something that has evolved within my spirit over the past 20 years that I have taken the name Christian. It is really none of your business or anyone else's, and since many people on this thread are annoyed with Christians who "thump" their bibles or "shove things down other throats" I should think it would be refreshing to non Christians to come across a Christian who isn't outspoken or obnoxious...instead, you continue to badger me even after I said I'm not interested in discussing it.

Hmm. I can smell a bit of a double standard or hypocrisy here.

I will not respond to any more nonsense on this thread. Find another idiot to pick apart, okay?
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 12:33 PM

Hit a nerve, ey?

I was just truly curious about your thought process.

Posted by: Jennifer Allan

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 12:38 PM

I was raised as an atheist, was a holy roller Christian at one point and am somewhat moderate at this point. Blah blah blah.

Here's MY answer to all the questions, for what it's worth.

"It would be a pretty puny God that I could understand"
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 12:46 PM

That's a cop out.

My questions, have not to do with god, but with Christianity:

1) Dinosaurs
2) Age of the Earth
3) Other religions: Hindu, Buddhism, specifically
4) Crusades, Inquisition, Witch burnings, other atrocities
5) Other
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 12:51 PM

And yet, they say Christians are too annoying!

Go ahead, pat yourself on the back, you got some more of those Christians backed into a corner - good job. Take satisfaction in that, feel good about yourself and your superior intellect.

Hope you had fun - now, I'm off to write some blogs about - gasp - REAL ESTATE.




Posted by: Jennifer Allan

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 01:10 PM

Christianity doesn't really have much to do with dinosaurs. But I have to laugh - in grade school, in the midwest, little Jennifer got sent home from school because she told all the other children that dinosaurs came before people. I don't know how dinosaurs relate to the whole God thing. I don't care all that much. Maybe God tossed around a few dinosaur bones to keep us humans entertained. Just because you or I don't know the answer, doesn't mean that one doesn't exist.

Age of the earth... I dunno. Don't care much. It doesn't affect my life today or my relationship with God.

Hindu and Buddhism. I may be wrong about this, but my understanding is that these two "religions" aren't religions at all - they are more a way of life and a way of living life. They don't claim to have a central god. Technically, you could probably be a Buddhist and a Christian. Again, I'm not certain of this - far from it, but that's what I've heard.

Atrocities... what's your point? that mean people exist? That stupid people exist? that narrow-minded people exist? that hypocrites exist? Well, duh. That doesn't invalidate a whole belief system.

Like Perky, I used to debate these issues and have a whole bookshelf full of books written to convince the skeptic that God exists. But, I respect your choice to disagree, WITHOUT ANY PROOF of your argument. I see evidence of God everywhere I look. If you don't, that's totally fine with me!
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 01:28 PM

I don't know why you insist on confusing a discussion of Christianity with the concept of God or (gods or Goddess).

If people don't like to think too hard, then that is their perogrative. I am just personally interested in how people develop and support belief systems.

I am interested in what people tell themselves to convince themselves of their beliefs when logic does not support their beliefs.

Evidently this kind of thinking is on the rare side.

If someone backs one of my beliefs into a corner, then I rethink it - I don't automatically just grasp onto the illogical belief tighter - well, that may be the emotional reaction, but the logical, thinking reaction is to reanalyze and use reason and logic to understand particular ideas, beliefs, etc.

Given this argument and where it has taken us, I don't think a majority of people are comfortable questioning anything - I think it shakes them up and makes them nervous and I find this cowardly.

If you can't defend your beliefs, why have them? Doesn't make sense to me.

Lots of people don't want to be confused with facts.

I always valued critical thinking in school and was lucky enough to have had some teachers and some classes that encouraged lively debate.

When I took philosophy in college and had to defend my beliefs in certain ideas, I really began to appreciate how beliefs are largely learned and adopted, not come to by way of reason.

I think Americans, by and large, are very lazy thinkers and I do think that religion is to blame. It is a Christian nation and the thinking infiltrates everything.

You would get thrown out of your church or congregation for asking the kind of questions I have posed, it would be seen as heresy! Yet these are just simple questions.

If you people have been debating these questions for awhile, why don't you have better answers? I seriously don't get it.

Why not say, "We have no idea why we believe the way we do, but we love our beliefs so don't bug us." Well, I guess Perky and Jennifer did say that and how sad is that? Why can't you stand up for what you believe and explain it in ways that make sense?

Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 01:34 PM

Think about the way that people who can't or won't support their beliefs pass them down to their children. They teach their children fairytales at young ages and don't explain things logically. The children grow up believing certain things, yet they don't know why, other than their parents or church or school taught them these ideas. They cling to these "beliefs," which are in fact, false "truths" about the way the world works, etc.

This is the height of irresponsibility, in my mind.

Take responsbility for your own beliefs. Own them. Understand why you have them and where they came from. Be able to articulate your beliefs and why you hold them, to others.

People who refuse to think are responsible for many of the ills in the world and I think it is high time they are held responsible.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 01:40 PM

You are not interested in hearing what I believe or why. You are out for blood, looking for someone else or something else to pounce on and show off how "logical" you are and how "superior" you are.

I will not get thrown out of my church for my beliefs because I do not belong to a traditional church. I gave them up last year and probably will never belong to one again. I do not care how old the earth is - I don't care if it's 900,000,000,000,000,000 years old or 8,000. My God transcends time and space. I do not care if people walked with dinosaurs or if global warming wiped them all out millions of years before the first human drew breath.

I am not going to share what I believe because it is too precious to me and extremely personal and private, and to have you trample it in the dirt because you think it's silly would be very painful and infuriating to me.

I have lived long enough in my nearly 38 years to know what's worthwhile and what isn't - and putting my beliefs out for critique by the likes of you is not worthwhile.

I hope that everyone who was criticizing Christians earlier in this thread can see who is being obnoxious and overbearing here.
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 01:52 PM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
That's a cop out.

My questions, have not to do with god, but with Christianity:

1) Dinosaurs
2) Age of the Earth
3) Other religions: Hindu, Buddhism, specifically
4) Crusades, Inquisition, Witch burnings, other atrocities
5) Other


Good morning Changeagent and Group, I apologize for sleeping in and missing this. Changeagent, there are a hypocrites who tout religious tolerance when it is just an excuse to make the Christians shut-up. You say that everyone has a right to believe what they want, but when one of those uppity Christians makes a small stand all Hell brakes loose. This is the way it has been and always will be. Do you know what a Muslim would do if he was approached with the same animosity toward his beliefs, well the cartoon Mohammad should give you some idea. You talk of logic, but logic is not the end all be all is it? You know as well as I that there are just some things that logically shouldn't happen. Logically, gods or goddesses can't exist. I do agree with you on a couple of your points about critical thinking and debate, standing up for what you believe in etc... Hopefully I am meeting those expectations, but now on to your questions;
#1 Why couldn't dinosaurs been around pre-flood?
#2 The link I sent you had some great info in it, it was based on facts that have been proven, and what if our entire dating system was wrong and the Earth was only 7,000 years old? I don't know how old it is and really makes no difference to me.
#3 You are giving me things to respond to, what exactly about the Hindus and Buddhists would you like to talk about.
#4 That was a dark and misguided time for Christians. I responded to this question earlier with vengeance is the Lord's not mine or any other Christian.
#5 Not sure what that means.

SeattleM, that is good that you have read the Bible, the question was directed at Changeagent. When you read it, what contradictions did you find? Also, factual inaccuracies? Did you seek council do discuss what you found? Did you seek clarification or just decide to give up? Please, maybe I can help offer some little bit of understanding if you could give me an example you found.

Navarac, the Bible is a compilation of different books written at different times, you can't say that it was written with a specific purpose in mind. If you think the Bible was written by men for their own purposes, why don't we have a God of our own design? Why do we have a God that we know and have written about in the Bible that we can't measure up to? As far as the people who grab hold of the reigns of a group of people, that can be said about a lot of people, it is not a good idea to hate Germany because of Hitler.

SMGardner, my belief was attacked first, I didn't "Thump" my Bible
until it was made clear that I should stifle my thoughts and feelings.

SeattleM, I do aplologize for hijacking your thead, I didn't mean to, but in all fairness it had already started to get out of hand.

Paul, I don't know where I got the notion, maybe it is foolish to say that and I apologize for insulting you. Why are our beliefs so different though? Well, I guess conversation for another thread, huh?

Jeff, Jeff Jeff Jeff.... I know you are a character so matching wit with you will be difficult, but why would our God, who was going to kill off humanity at one point, but decided that Noah, although he was not perfect he "walked" with God, would be worth saving the race. Then when things, after a very long time, went bad again and God wanted to kill us off again, but since his covenant with Noah said he wouldn't, he sent his own son to die in our stead. All he asks is that we acknowledge that his son died for our sins, and rose again after 3 days. That is all he asks, and don't blaspheme the Holy Spirit, that is not asking a lot, is it? So for you to turn your back and say well that is just to much, who is the stupid one? He has done everything he can.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 02:08 PM

Adam: I do appreciate your politeness. It is quite refreshing and endearing. I know I have said many things that you would think of as "blasphemous," and this is difficult because I truly do not wish to hurt anyone, but I do not hold the same beliefs as sacred, so to me, it is not "blasphemous" to not capitalize god's name, to question certain things.

I don't dispute that you have a right to your beliefs - since you stepped up on this thread to assert your beliefs, it was natural for me to question some of them.

I can see that no one is going to change their stances based on this thread.

I really am interested in how people came to beleive certain things, but of course they have no duty to tell me.

I don't understand getting in a snit when someone has pointed, valid questions.

I do feel "superior" to the non-thinkers, because I hold a *belief* that thinking is valuable and that non-thinkers are responsible for screwing up the earth - through laziness, spreading untruths (or not challenging non-truths - goes back to laziness). I think lots of "Christians" hide behind the mantle of Christianity because it is so big and powerful - they can live any way they want and treat people like crap and then say, "I'm a Christian." Talk about feeling "holier than thou." Hmmm. I wonder where that phrase originated and why?

Adam: The link you provided on the young earth theory is just ludicrus to me. The "data" is laughable. It makes no sense, what-so-ever and if you really read the wiki link on the young earth theory and then want to get back to me, I would love to talk about specifics.
Posted by: Artiste

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 02:20 PM

Quote:
Prodigy wrote: Do you know what a Muslim would do if he was approached with the same animosity toward his beliefs


Only the Fundamental Muslims, Prodigy. Not all. The Muslim wackos are regarded by other Muslims the same as Christians regard their own fundamental wacko's who bomb abortion clinics, protest with "God hates Fags" signs and prepare pipe bombs for Jerry Falwall's funeral, etc etc.
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 02:25 PM

Changeagent why do you say that the Christians are non-thinkers? Just because someone doesn't care to argue or explain their beliefs with you does not make them a non-thinker. What gives you the right to demand that they explain their beliefs? For the record I am not a Christian. I also don't feel I have any right to demand that someone explains their beliefs to me. If they want to have a pleasant conversation fine but you are just as bad as the Christians you are complaining about.
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 02:29 PM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
Adam: I do appreciate your politeness. It is quite refreshing and endearing. I know I have said many things that you would think of as "blasphemous," and this is difficult because I truly do not wish to hurt anyone, but I do not hold the same beliefs as sacred, so to me, it is not "blasphemous" to not capitalize god's name, to question certain things.

I don't dispute that you have a right to your beliefs - since you stepped up on this thread to assert your beliefs, it was natural for me to question some of them.

I can see that no one is going to change their stances based on this thread.

I really am interested in how people came to beleive certain things, but of course they have no duty to tell me.

I don't understand getting in a snit when someone has pointed, valid questions.

I do feel "superior" to the non-thinkers, because I hold a *belief* that thinking is valuable and that non-thinkers are responsible for screwing up the earth - through laziness, spreading untruths (or not challenging non-truths - goes back to laziness). I think lots of "Christians" hide behind the mantle of Christianity because it is so big and powerful - they can live any way they want and treat people like crap and then say, "I'm a Christian." Talk about feeling "holier than thou." Hmmm. I wonder where that phrase originated and why?

Adam: The link you provided on the young earth theory is just ludicrus to me. The "data" is laughable. It makes no sense, what-so-ever and if you really read the wiki link on the young earth theory and then want to get back to me, I would love to talk about specifics.


As far as your first paragraph goes, saying things and doing things that may not be blasphemous to you are very insulting to me, and this morphed into a religious tolerance seminar. I asked SeattleM to capitalize the name because if I or any Cristian should worry about hurting someones feeling in a class then it should be a two way street. That is what I was trying to get to.

Point #2 of yours, I welcome questions, but you should understand that if you are trying to pick apart my beliefs then you should be giving me new information and data to discuss. You have not done so and so my viewpoint hasn't changed, except maybe on Columbus, I'll have to do a little more research.

Obviously I don't think anyone is going to convert based on this discussion/debate, but it would be great if I could get my point across to just one person.

I am not in a snit, but there are a lot of people, as several had said earlier, that don't want to discuss their beliefs openly. I don't think that is a bad thing, there is no obligation and if you did hit a nerve let it go. Unfortunately many take the "mantle" of Christianity for passivity. The "I can do whatever I want as long as a profess the name Jesus" mentality is running rampant. I don't judge these people, God knows that I am the greatest sinner of all, but I don't think that viewpoint corresponds to the Bible.

Seriously, the Wiki link, can you give me a link to that page of the forum? I think I'm lost...
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 02:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Artiste
Quote:
Prodigy wrote: Do you know what a Muslim would do if he was approached with the same animosity toward his beliefs


Only the Fundamental Muslims, Prodigy. Not all. The Muslim wackos are regarded by other Muslims the same as Christians regard their own fundamental wacko's who bomb abortion clinics, protest with "God hates Fags" signs and prepare pipe bombs for Jerry Falwall's funeral, etc etc.

You are correct, I am not saying the Muslim would cut your head off, but there were riots over a cartoon, that explains the passion that's all. I was making this point because all to many Christians expect to just take the criticisms and be complacent about it. There is no fight, and I use that term no in a physical kind of way, in us as a whole. I am sick of being walked on, that's all. By the way, was it a typo or on purpose?
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 02:52 PM

I am not passive just for the record. thank you Secret Agent for your post.

To Change Agent:

I am not a non-thinker, and to assume so because I don't want to debate something that's VERY PRECIOUS to me with someone who doesn't give a fig about it or my feelings is the height of arrogance and intolerance.

I have shared my beliefs before when I felt comfortable doing so, or even if I felt uncomfortable but it was obvious that the Lord was telling me to say thus and such about something at that particular point in time.

I do not have that desire here, and I sense that if I did share my beliefs I would get no respect for it and only more rudeness. So I keep it to myself.

Doesn't mean I haven't thought long and hard about them. In fact I came to a turning point about a year ago in my life where I was >this< close to abandoning my belief system and living as an agnostic of sorts - but something very poignant, personal, and touching happened to me and convinced me that my faith was something to hold on to. Does it make sense? Not to you, but it does to me and it would to other believers, or seekers looking for God. You are not that person. You are looking for someone to slap down with your facts, intellect, and "reasoning."

There is a passage in the Bible about not tossing pearls before swine - and also in the New Testament we are warned to say away from useless debates and pointless arguing.

Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 02:54 PM

Adam:

Here's the link again on the young earth creationist theory:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism

Secret Agent: I wasn't demanding that anyone do anything, just requesting insight into the origin of beliefs.

I think it is quite ironic that people begin to talk about their "rights." You have no right to do this and you have the right to do that. What does that have to do with discussing ideas and deconstructing beliefs? No one has threatened a lawsuit so I think it is silly and hypersensitive to talk about your "rights."

And your idea of a "pleasant conversation" certainly differs from mine.

This is all about diversity and tolerance. I have always had to tolerate Christian beliefs since I was raised in the United States.

I was taught at a young age, to think and to question and learned later in life how to deconstruct theories.

I have personally completely disseminated my entire belief system. I have examined every belief I could identify to see its origin and to weigh it in light of "new evidence."

My arguments are not around loving god or loving Christ, but about the tenants of organized religion and the bible. I think it is fair game to question biblical information in light of scientific evidence to the contrary (or even allegorical theory).

What do you think about the Greek Mythology? The gods and goddesses?

What do you think about the ancient matriarchal societies and the goddess relics that have been found?

What do you personally think about the pyramids?

What do you tell yourself about the creation of Stonehenge and other such phemonena?

I think these are valid and interesting questions and I don't know why anyone would resist answering them?

Also:

Do your current beliefs coincide with what you were taught as a child?

What has influenced your beliefs?

Do or don't examine your beliefs. Do or don't respond to my questions.

I think it is funny, Adam, that you think gods or goddesses can't be proven, but "The God" can be. Do you see any inconsistency in that thinking?
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 02:57 PM

How Christian of you to call me a pig, Perky.

I never asked for anyone to lay their sacred, personal experiences before me - where did you get that idea?

I am asking about beliefs and origins and specifics about dinosaurs, young vs. old earth, etc.

Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 03:04 PM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
Adam:

Here's the link again on the young earth creationist theory:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism

Secret Agent: I wasn't demanding that anyone do anything, just requesting insight into the origin of beliefs.

I think it is quite ironic that people begin to talk about their "rights." You have no right to do this and you have the right to do that. What does that have to do with discussing ideas and deconstructing beliefs? No one has threatened a lawsuit so I think it is silly and hypersensitive to talk about your "rights."

And your idea of a "pleasant conversation" certainly differs from mine.

This is all about diversity and tolerance. I have always had to tolerate Christian beliefs since I was raised in the United States.

I was taught at a young age, to think and to question and learned later in life how to deconstruct theories.

I have personally completely disseminated my entire belief system. I have examined every belief I could identify to see its origin and to weigh it in light of "new evidence."

My arguments are not around loving god or loving Christ, but about the tenants of organized religion and the bible. I think it is fair game to question biblical information in light of scientific evidence to the contrary (or even allegorical theory).

What do you think about the Greek Mythology? The gods and goddesses? When Moses came down from Mt. Sinai the Israelites where worshiping a golden cow. This was just another sect worshiping false idols.

What do you think about the ancient matriarchal societies and the goddess relics that have been found? See above.

What do you personally think about the pyramids? Pretty cool, I have no idea why they would build such large tombs, but hey peole have done stranger things I suppose.

What do you tell yourself about the creation of Stonehenge and other such phemonena? See above

I think these are valid and interesting questions and I don't know why anyone would resist answering them?

Also:

Do your current beliefs coincide with what you were taught as a child?

What has influenced your beliefs?

Do or don't examine your beliefs. Do or don't respond to my questions.

I think it is funny, Adam, that you think gods or goddesses can't be proven, but "The God" can be. Do you see any inconsistency in that thinking? Please re-read my response, I said that logic wouldn't permit such beliefs, but I also said that logic was not the end all be all.

I am going to read the Wiki article asap and get back to you.
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 03:08 PM

changeagent I would be happy to have a conversation about Greek mythology, gods and goddess, pyramids etc. Right now I need to eat and this would take too long. I think we have hijacked this thread way past it's original intent. Go start up a thread in Shooting the breeze and I will be happy to converse on these subjects there. For what's it's worth I don't see how all of those subjects have to do with one being a Christian. One last thought. I was raised in a Christian home. For that matter I don't think I knew anyone that wasn't. It was a very homogeneous neighborhood. I really could go on at length but as I said I really need to eat. I do believe this should be taken to a new thread in Shooting the breeze. I don't know if anyone cares or not where this stays though.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 03:09 PM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
How Christian of you to call me a pig, Perky.

I never asked for anyone to lay their sacred, personal experiences before me - where did you get that idea?

I am asking about beliefs and origins and specifics about dinosaurs, young vs. old earth, etc.



I didn't call you a pig, I made a loose quote of a bible verse, that basically means arguing with someone who doesn't care is the same thing as casting your pearls before swine - to a pig, a pearl is no different than a rock, and to someone who has no care at all, my beliefs are no different than anything else and will be trampled (as you are doing.) Someone with your keen intellect and sense of logic should know that.

and I already told you that I really don't care about dinosaurs - what impact do they have on the here and now? MY FAITH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DINOSAURS, it has to do with the PERSONAL relationship I have with my creator.
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 03:35 PM

Ok, I am at about 1/3 the way through the Wiki article and I have to stop reading. I believe the earth is older than some think and younger than some think. I don't know if God made it in 144 hours or if a day is just a reference point for us humans and it took millions of years. I will ask Him when I see Him. I am not a Young Earth Creationist so I can't speak on what they believe, I don't really know a lot about them. But one thing I am sure you and I will agree on is steadfast denial of facts would be foolish. If the YEC are closed minded then that would be a mistake, but let's try and get back on subject here shall we. There is science behind that theory, you can't deny that. You may think it is a mis-interpretation of scientific data, but that means you are being closed minded. Until you become an expert and do the experiment yourself then don't just dismiss it as inaccurate. Or at least do a little research into both sides. By the way Changeagent, if you don't mind me asking, what is your beliefs? I am not going to bring you under fire, but I think I could guess at least a general direction.
Posted by: MDHomes2Go

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 03:59 PM

This is interesting stuff.... Changeagent, you are the only one making any sense, and Secretagent do you really need to eat?
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 04:07 PM

Originally Posted By: seattlemetal
I havent taken the course yet (100 days to greatness) is there religious content in it?


To answer the original question in this thread: Is there religious content in 100 Days to Greatness? Brian Buffini professes to be an Irish Catholic who has married an African American Baptist.

Is the 100 days program a religious class? NO

Is the teacher or instructor religious? YES

Does Brian Buffini try to convert anyone to Christianity or shove his "religious" beliefs down anyone's throat? NO

Is the class on starting and building a successful real estate career that gives you a step by step guide on basic fundamentals of using your sphere of influence to make it in this real estate business? YES

Can someone who has either different religious, political, racial, or sexual orientation benefit, learn and put into practice all his systems, dialogs or "scripts", daily routines etc. and learn from the program? YES

Will they?PROBABLY NOT

That is why 5% of the Realtors do 95% of the business. That is also why his 100 Days to Greatness is also a precursor to his coaching program, because they know that the majority of the agents will not follow thru and do all the things necessary to be successful.

----------------

Now to ask a few questions of seattlemetal:

Can you learn from a teacher or instructor who is religious?

Could someone teach you how to paint a house if they were religious?

If the "house painter" referenced God or claimed he got his abilities from The Lord God Almighty would that negate everything you learned from "the painter" making you unable to or even want to paint a house using his techniques, shortcuts, type of paint brush, and the same brand of paint?

Will you have an open mind to the basic fundamentals of working your sphere of influence taught by Brian Buffini?

-----------------

Now to ask a few questions of changeagent:

Have you taken the 100 Days to Greatness class?

When you get in informal "debates" concerning religion (in light of the fact that you studied world religions at the graduate level) do you find yourself or the other party resorting to using the same dialog or "scripts"?

Some people say that scripts make their skin crawl. Well those are scripts that have not been put to memory. It is like the horrible telemarketer reading a script or a nervous waiter repeating the days soup and special. When you have a waiter that can explain everything on the menu and makes the special of the day sound great, where you want to order it, is that an example of a great "script"?

Have you watched What tHe BLeep!? "Down The Rabbit Hole" or The Secret?

Do you play chess?

--------------------

Now to ask a few questions of Perky_REALTOR:

Have you watched What tHe BLeep!? "Down The Rabbit Hole" or The Secret?

What is wrong with being a Republican?

Have you taken the 100 Days to Greatness class yet?

Do you really hate my Site Pal character that speaks on my web site?
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 04:12 PM

Originally Posted By: MDHomes2Go
and Secretagent do you really need to eat?
I really did. I don't now. Could I have gone a few days without eating?...sure...did I want to?...No...
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 04:13 PM

Cool_Cat, your post made me chuckle.

No, I haven't gotten access to What the Bleep, Down the Rabbit Hole, or The Secret yet. I will see if it is available through Blockbuster online and add it to my queue.

Nothing is wrong with being a Republican. I'm one...sort of. Sometimes though, I vote for Democrats, but don't tell anyone that.

No, I haven't taken the 100 Days to Greatness as I've never heard of it until this thread. Remember, I live in an area that only just got a Starbucks in the past five years or so, and that one is 40 minutes away from me - we're the boonies ya know.

Yes, I really hate Site Pal characters. They creep me out, just like the ooky voice at Cinemark asking me to please turn my cell phone off before Pirates of the Caribbean starts and just like I hate the fake person on Verizon's help desk pretending to actually have a conversation with me.

Now, if your Site Pal talked like Cap'n Jack Sparrow, I might actually like it. Savvy?

wink
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 04:15 PM

Do you really hate my Site Pal character that speaks on my web site?

I'm not Perky but if I may...I don't like the site pals. I do like them in a general way but I don't like going to a site and being startled with a cartoon talking to me. If I go to Cartoon Networks website I expect it but not from an agents site. Just my 2 cents if it is worth even that much.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 04:18 PM

Originally Posted By: MDHomes2Go
This is interesting stuff.... Changeagent, you are the only one making any sense, and Secretagent do you really need to eat?


So it's okay to badger Christians and make snide comments about ones who choose not to debate about dinosaurs and Christopher Columbus and if gnats serve a higher purpose...but it is definitely not okay for Christians to assert their beliefs if they want to?

what I smell here is the distinct odor of double standards and hypocrisy.
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 04:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Perky_REALTOR

Now, if your Site Pal talked like Cap'n Jack Sparrow, I might actually like it. Savvy?

wink

Well this is so off topic at this point so what the heck.

Just for you Perky. Captain Jack is bringing Sexy Back
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 04:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Secret_Agent
Do you really hate my Site Pal character that speaks on my web site?

I'm not Perky but if I may...I don't like the site pals. I do like them in a general way but I don't like going to a site and being startled with a cartoon talking to me. If I go to Cartoon Networks website I expect it but not from an agents site. Just my 2 cents if it is worth even that much.


WELL SAID!!! Yes, that's it!! I don't hate them when they are in a context such as a cartoon or entertainment website. I do not like them on real estate or other serious websites.
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 04:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Cool Cat


Do you really hate my Site Pal character that speaks on my web site?


That thing is pretty creepy, it twitches oddly...
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 04:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Secret_Agent
Originally Posted By: Perky_REALTOR

Now, if your Site Pal talked like Cap'n Jack Sparrow, I might actually like it. Savvy?

wink

Well this is so off topic at this point so what the heck.

Just for you Perky. Captain Jack is bringing Sexy Back


Ooo, I savvy, I savvy....

*sigh*

hey did anyone see the new Pirates? It was awesome. I loved it...lots of Barbosa! Much better than Pirates 2, and I actually had sympathy for ol' squid-puss Davy Jones.
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 04:27 PM

We have 3 free tickets that we have been saving to use to go see it but I REFUSE to go the first couple of weeks. I just love that sexy back video.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 04:32 PM

When you go, be sure to stay to see what happens AFTER the credits. I stay for all the credits after EVERY MOVIE. Sometimes I am rewareded with nothing, but then other times, I am rewarded with a special treat, and I secretly snicker that I'm one of the few getting to see it as so many people jump up and rush out as soon as the first credit rolls.

We went to the 11:00 showing at the Cinemark yesterday. Since we don't do traditional church, our Sunday mornings are free to enjoy the cheap matinee prices. tee hee
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 04:35 PM

I always stay as well. I remember "Ferris Buller's Day Off" with him telling everyone that the movie is over and to go home smile
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 04:40 PM

After Secret Window Johnny Depp sang some weird little song. And after Napoleon Dynamite they had a wedding, I think.

I figure, I pay big bucks for this stuff, I may as well take advantage of all I can!
Posted by: Merkaba

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 04:48 PM

Originally Posted By: seattlemetal
FWIW- Prodigy, I HAVE read the bible...cover to cover...it had ALOT to do with my transition into atheism actually.....the contradictions, the factual inaccuracies etc.....



Contradictions in the bible? Get out of here!
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 05:11 PM

I would love to hear your guess about what I believe . . . My "beliefs" are on the complex side and if I were to begin to list them, I think I might wear myself out.

I will say that I FEEL connected, spiritually. Take that any way you want . . . these things are personal, you know!!!

But seriously, debating the dogma is something that I think is worthwhile.

Previously, Adam said that I had not laid out anything new for him to consider . . . I didn't know that was my job.

We have covered a lot of ground, though.

I would ask you, Adam, if you previously *believed* that Columbus discovered Ameirica, and you were taught that in school (as was I and most other Americans) and there is a holiday that celebrates something that NEVER HAPPENED . . . does that cause you to question anything else you might have been taught as "truth?"

That is really all I am asking.

I used to believe all kinds of things that I have discarded over the years.

Have you heard of the Jains? From what I have read, they believe life is so sacred that they try not to step on any bugs at all, ever, meaning the most devout don't move.

I respect the belief, but it is a little crippling, to make a bad pun.

And I saw a documentary on TV once about Orthodox Jews who spent hours washing their lettuce because they *believe* it is a sin to eat a bug. That made me kind of mad, I think because I wanted to scream out, "But you have probably eaten tons of bugs by mistake, but because you don't know about it, you don't realize you have committed a sin, according to your religion." It just seemed so illogical to me.

And throughout my studies I learned a lot about religion and control of people and I think we have all seen the wars throughout history over religion that continue to this day. The fact that we are *warring* here is no different, really - if someone could shoot someone through the internet, I'm sure it would have been done by now . . . people take their religious beliefs seriously!

And I think it is again, ironic, Adam that you think that worshipping "false idols" is just horrible when those people were worshipping THEIR gods.

The god of Christianity says "HE" is a jealous god. Yikes! That stinks. I thought people were made in god's image, not that god had pesky human traits! And "HE" seeks vengeance. I think your opening paragraph had "HIM" spitting in disgust. What kind of a god is that? Of course if you wish to worship such a god, that is your "RIGHT" and your business, but from over here it seems a little quirky, as my beliefs, if you knew them, would seem to you.

So it is all highly personal and I think we make it all up and then believe what makes us feel good or comfortable or included in the tribe, or whatever.

Amen, BROTHER!
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 05:18 PM

And as far as "hijacking" a thread is concerned, I know I am probably in the minority, but I think threads evolve. I don't think that is a bad thing.

This thread opened with a writer asking a question about religious content before she attended a workshop and then we got to see how it developed for her. It was about making her pay for something she did not believe in and also the fact that she had to recite something that she did not believe in and had to pay for it, to boot.

That just naturally got us into this area and I don't think it is a bad thing.
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 05:24 PM

Originally Posted By: Cool Cat

Now to ask a few questions of seattlemetal:

Can you learn from a teacher or instructor who is religious?

Could someone teach you how to paint a house if they were religious?

If the "house painter" referenced God or claimed he got his abilities from The Lord God Almighty would that negate everything you learned from "the painter" making you unable to or even want to paint a house using his techniques, shortcuts, type of paint brush, and the same brand of paint?

Will you have an open mind to the basic fundamentals of working your sphere of influence taught by Brian Buffini?

-----------------

Now to ask a few questions of changeagent:

Have you taken the 100 Days to Greatness class?

When you get in informal "debates" concerning religion (in light of the fact that you studied world religions at the graduate level) do you find yourself or the other party resorting to using the same dialog or "scripts"?

Some people say that scripts make their skin crawl. Well those are scripts that have not been put to memory. It is like the horrible telemarketer reading a script or a nervous waiter repeating the days soup and special. When you have a waiter that can explain everything on the menu and makes the special of the day sound great, where you want to order it, is that an example of a great "script"?

Have you watched What tHe BLeep!? "Down The Rabbit Hole" or The Secret?

Do you play chess?
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 05:27 PM

I'll bite...Why the "Do you play chess?" question Cool Cat?
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 05:40 PM

To answer your question, I find "scripts" (does the word derive from "scripture?") to be canned "beliefs." I think they are ideas that have been condensed to sound bites and I don't like them anymore than I like any other cliches or sound bites, commercials, canned responses, surfacey answers, status quo -lite thinking.

I am not trying to "win," so the chess analogy is moot.

I am curious more than anything.

And most people are just closed-minded - have made up their minds about everything, have rock-solid *beliefs* that might be absurd . . . and they are living their lives according to them. I think that is a waste of precious brain-power and creativity.

That is my motive for debating almost anything along these lines. I just think that people need to wake up and THINK! I know it hurts your brain, but come on! A lot is at stake!
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 05:42 PM

That is one of the reasons why I left traditional churches. So if you suspect that I do not "Think" merely because I don't want to argue, you are very mistaken.

Not all "thinkers" feel the need to pontificate on all of their thoughts.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 06:30 PM

How does it help move dialog forward when you keep your precious thoughts to yourself?

I am more of the mind that the lost art of conversation is lively and delights and informs as well as, enlightens. I guess I should have been born in the 19th or 20th centuries when it was in style to converse about ideas.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 06:32 PM

I didn't join in this thread to discuss my personal beliefs; I joined it to discuss the religious comments made in a sales class.

Savvy?

Posted by: smg

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 06:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Perky_REALTOR
I didn't join in this thread to discuss my personal beliefs; I joined it to discuss the religious comments made in a sales class.

Savvy?



That makes 100% sense to me anyways. While I read this thread and find myself nodding alot at what changeagents thoughts are, I find myself v ery much in agreement with those who do not care to discuss. Bottom line is that its really not anybodys business but your own.
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 06:39 PM

Originally Posted By: smgardner
Originally Posted By: Perky_REALTOR
I didn't join in this thread to discuss my personal beliefs; I joined it to discuss the religious comments made in a sales class.

Savvy?



That makes 100% sense to me anyways. While I read this thread and find myself nodding alot at what changeagents thoughts are, I find myself v ery much in agreement with those who do not care to discuss. Bottom line is that its really not anybodys business but your own.
Nodding my head and Savvy as well. I am going to go outside and play now.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 07:40 PM

Another conversation shut down. Good job!
Posted by: Paceryder

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 08:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Prodigy
Oh boy, where to get started...

#1 Seattlemetal, thank you for bringing this conversation to light here on the forums.
#2 Seattlemetal, in the spirit of religious tolerance, it is God, not god. Would you please edit your first and second post. If we as Christian are supposed to stand by and watch the humiliation of our beliefs, and stand quietly as not to offend anyone, the least you can do is correctly capitalize His name. I imagine you won't because you don't have to, being America and all. But we as Christians are expected to be tolerant of other peoples beliefs while ours are stomped on.
#3 Artiste, I hope that was a series of typos, but I assume not so please see above.
#4 Jeff Olsen, Christians are the persecuted ones here, sorry to burst your bubble Jeff. There was never a mention of Jesus, there was reference to God. God is also the focal point of Jews, Mormons, Catholics, Muslims and more. Who came under fire first? Christians of course.
#5 To all those who say that it is personal and should not be discussed in open conversation, this is why Christians speak more freely than they "should", If you read the Bible there is a verse,
Mathew 15:5
Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house.
I am sick of complacent Christians, another verse,
Revelation 3:16
So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.
#6 OneFeePlus.com, Although I can see where people may get the idea that what you do is bad for business, some of us can't smuggle bibles into China or be killed for trying to spread the gospel so we do what we can and everything we do, we do to glorify Him. I commend you. You recognize the fact that money is a distant 2nd to the great commission.

I do thank God, SeattleM notice the capital, for my success because without Him I wouldn't have life to be successful in. I don't care if I offend someone because I say Merry Christmas, God bless, or God Da*n for that matter. My belief is my belief and I shouldn't have to stifle it any more than you should have to be forced to listen to it, if you don't want to work with me because you are a Buddhist or an Atheist, fine. My feelings aren't hurt, but you would do nothing but benefit by working with me. I do not believe in pushy "any belief". Conversion to a faith is done after a solid understanding, convert or die and the crusades has done more harm than good for Christ. If you are going to rip me apart by all means do so, an insult for standing up for Christ is a medal of honor to me.

I am insulted by the complete lack of respect for Christianity on a subject that hypocrites talk of cultural understanding and religious tolerance.


I can't believe there are Christians in this country who really believe they are subject to religious intollerance or persecution.
Posted by: Paceryder

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 08:15 PM

[quote=Prodigy
Thank you for being so tolerant of others religion, go to the bible and look up The Great Commission. That is why. I never said that I would force religion down anyones throat, but I have a right to believe what I believe how I believe it. Why should I have to be quiet when my belief tells me not to be? See lamp stand post above for reference. Also, if Mormons and Catholics were Christian then they would be called Christians, read up a little and you will see that there are major differences. Just because they believe in Christ does not make them Christians. [/quote]

You're confusing intolerant with having a different opinion.
Posted by: Paceryder

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 08:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Prodigy
Originally Posted By: changeagent
I am sorry, I don't understand what you said. Can you clarify? If you think that the world was created "centuries" before the advent of Christianity, then how do you explain the EXTREMELY OLD bones found of dinosaurs? Please see link for reference

Are dinosaurs discussed in the Christian bible? Please see previous post




Ack, did you ever post on the old AOL religion boards. I'm surprised you didn't link to AnswersInGenesis. There are MANY other means of dating other than carbon dating, by the way.
Posted by: seattlemetal

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 08:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Cool Cat


Now to ask a few questions of seattlemetal:

Can you learn from a teacher or instructor who is religious?

Could someone teach you how to paint a house if they were religious?

If the "house painter" referenced God or claimed he got his abilities from The Lord God Almighty would that negate everything you learned from "the painter" making you unable to or even want to paint a house using his techniques, shortcuts, type of paint brush, and the same brand of paint?

Will you have an open mind to the basic fundamentals of working your sphere of influence taught by Brian Buffini?




I think you may be missing the point...I never qustioned whether the class was valueable, nor did I ever say that the presence of religious content would prevent me from benefitting from the class. thats not the issue....


could I learn from someone who is religous? of course, I have, and do. let me ask you- can the religious learn from an atheist?

for those of you who are religious...If you were told you HAD to take a class, and pay $400 for it, and then you were to stand up and say "there is no god" in that class, how would you feel?

all of you should think about that for a second....think about that while you are telling me that its no big deal....

I think we can tell, by how wound up everyone has been in this thread, that it IS a big deal to everyone....no matter which side you are on....


Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 08:31 PM

I already answered the question: I would either stand up and say nothing, or even remain seated, depending on my mood. whether you believe me or not is up to you.

I got wound up when someone kept badgering for an argument that I didn't want to give. Big difference. If I were being badgered in a class, then you bet I would stand up for myself and I would make a big complaint.
Posted by: seattlemetal

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 08:40 PM

:o) I believe you...lol

thats basically what I will do....nothing...until they confront me or something...then I'll have to let them know that I value the class and wish to remain in it, but that I think it is inappropriate to insert religious content into an expensive and mandantory class...
Posted by: navarac

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 10:32 PM

Quote from Prodigy:

[Navarac, the Bible is a compilation of different books written at different times, you can't say that it was written with a specific purpose in mind. If you think the Bible was written by men for their own purposes, why don't we have a God of our own design? Why do we have a God that we know and have written about in the Bible that we can't measure up to? As far as the people who grab hold of the reigns of a group of people, that can be said about a lot of people, it is not a good idea to hate Germany because of Hitler.]

---------------------------------------------------------

The irrefutable point is that the Bible was written by men. Period. As such, it is subject to review and critique, as are all books written by men. It is no more divine than the Magna Carta, the Britannica Encyclopaedia, or Dr. Ruth's Guide to Great Sex.

For you to ascribe any form of divinity to the Bible is a factual mistake. It is just a book written by men. And your claim that the Bible was written without a specific purpose is fine with me. That makes it even less relevant in my Book.

It always comes down to belief with the Bible. At some point knowledge, truth, and empirical facts have to stop, and you have to just believe. Why? Because there is no knowledge, truth, or facts to support any other conclusion than the Bible is simply a document written by fallible men.

And if it was written by fallible men, which is true, then it is the Word of Man, not God. And of course THAT would be an unacceptable basis upon which to construct the ponderous and irrational conglomeration known as Christianity (Or Islam or Judaism, et al).

"But the words were inspired by God" is the usual bromide. And again, no proof is possible and none has ever been offered. You simply have to believe that it was divinely inspired. Mistake.

However, to me, Faith is the original Sin. So God created us with intellect and the gift of Reason. If he now demanded that we suspend the use of our primary Gift, our Cardinal Endowment, exactly what kind of God might that be?

If there were a God, he would welcome atheistic disbelief, because it would demonstrate the ultimate use of the Cardinal Endowment: Reason.

If there were a God, the first Commandment would be: Thou shalt not exercise Faith in the Execution of Life.

If there were a God, religion as we understand it would not be allowed. Because religion depends upon obliteration of our Cardinal Endowment (Reason) in order to succeed as an institution.

Ironically, it is the atheist who lives as God would have intended by fully employing the Cardinal Endowment. And it is the deist who exercises the sin of Faith and lives in contravention to the Cardinal Endowment.








Posted by: smg

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 10:34 PM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
Another conversation shut down. Good job!


Thanks changeagent! You do not seem accepting of some peoples desires to not discuss this subject. This is very persaonal stuff, much like sexuality, political choices and the like. When somebody makes a comment more than one time that they do not care to go into this discussion, its totally inappropriate and pretty obnoxious to press them on the issue. There are plenty of folks at bulletin boards aimed at Religion...why not go toe to toe with them? I was pretty surprised at how pushy you were...
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 10:47 PM


Changeagent, Another conversation not completely answered or understood. My motive is not to debate or anything along those lines. It is trying to make you wake up and THINK, I know it hurts the brain, but come on! Try and do a good job, answer all four questions, a lot is at stake...... You're right I'm kidding


Originally Posted By: changeagent
To answer your question, I find "scripts" (does the word derive from "scripture?") to be canned "beliefs." I think they are ideas that have been condensed to sound bites and I don't like them anymore than I like any other cliches or sound bites, commercials, canned responses, surfacey answers, status quo -lite thinking.

I am not trying to "win," so the chess analogy is moot.

I am curious more than anything.

And most people are just closed-minded - have made up their minds about everything, have rock-solid *beliefs* that might be absurd . . . and they are living their lives according to them. I think that is a waste of precious brain-power and creativity.



1) Have you taken the 100 Days to Greatness class? No Response

2) When you get in informal "debates" concerning religion (in light of the fact that you studied world religions at the graduate level) do you find yourself or the other party resorting to using the same dialog or "scripts"?I find "scripts" (does the word derive from "scripture?") to be canned "beliefs." I think they are ideas that have been condensed to sound bites and I don't like them anymore than I like any other clichés or sound bites, commercials, canned responses, surfacey answers, status quo -lite thinking.

Actually, I thought the term scripts derived from scripts from a movie, nothing religious. The point of a well delivered script is to make it believable and that you were having a conversation not a cleverly delivered canned sound bite or a weak non-rehearsed read dialog. The material must be committed to memory and be able to flow from one point to another seamlessly in conversation.

3) Have you watched What tHe BLeep!? "Down The Rabbit Hole" or The Secret? No Response

4) Do you play chess? I am not trying to "win," so the chess analogy is moot.

Actually, the chess analogy is more in the way the game is played. You have to think your moves ahead of time allowing for different scenarios. Some times setting up your opponent to move or respond in a certain way. The chess masters (I play, but I am not one of them) have games committed to memory and series of moves that can be played depending on how the other player reacts or moves. This is the way "scripts" or dialogs should be used in real estate. A skilled and knowledgeable agent knows all of the possible objections and responses and knows how to counter or expound on them. This can only be done through complete knowledge of the business, read and practice "scripts", role playing, and finally by experience. A skilled agent will take note at what "dialog worked and at what "dialog" did not work and will make adjustments until a skilled script is perfected. Meaning, a skilled agent will basically say and do the same things that fit each scenario. To suggest not using scripts is to fly by the seat of your pants and hit and miss in your success never reaching the 5% of the agents that do know the power of scripts.

How is that for successfully hijacking" a thread? This question on "scripting has evolved over several different threads with changeagent.

Now taking on whether Catholics are Christians and the debate between Changeagent and Prodigy, I'll leave them to play that game themselves. I am like Perky in several ways, I am a "born again believer" but have problems with organized religion and mans doctrines.
Posted by: navarac

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 11:00 PM

Another interesting linguistic wrinkle: Certain Christians like to refer to themselves as "saved". Leaving the rest of us out in the cold I guess. Or more accurately, submerged in the heat.

It just says something about group psychology and weakness of character when members of a religious sect summarily declare
its followers to be "saved".

Don't you think?



Posted by: JoeyBagadonuts

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 11:15 PM

Why are you people stuck on this thread?
Posted by: navarac

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 11:21 PM

Frankly, it's more fun than evaluating the 10,000th newbie's boring website or cutting edge farming letter, savvy?

Posted by: JoeyBagadonuts

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 11:27 PM

Originally Posted By: navarac
Frankly, it's more fun than evaluating the 10,000th newbie's boring website or cutting edge farming letter, savvy?



Yes, I know evaluating a newbie's website is boring and so are farming letters....and so is agency, COE, state real estate laws, ideas for growing our business. They are all pretty boring. I am sure i can add a few hundred more if I wanted to.

But, if you want to talk about religion, go a religion forum/board. We dont need this crap here.
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 11:30 PM

I suggested that they move it to Shooting the breeze at least but I see no one took that suggestion.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 11:36 PM

Sm: You imply that I was pushing Ms. Perky Realtor (talk about sexual innuendos) to respond to me, when I was not.

I think Ms. Perky should be changed to Ms. Pissy, because of her overreaction.

CoolCat: No, I have not taken that course or workshop or whatever it is.

You are obsessed with scripts and chess. What an interesting speciality!
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 11:39 PM

I don't understand why people who have no interest in a thread care what other people post on the thread.

Knock yourself out with farming, reviewing web sites, etc. and leave the rest of us to more meaty fare.
Posted by: navarac

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 11:41 PM

[quote=JoeyBagadonuts
But, if you want to talk about religion, go a religion forum/board. We dont need this crap here. [/quote]

Who's we?
Posted by: JoeyBagadonuts

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 11:44 PM

cause it doesnt belong here.
go talk to your therapist, counselor, or pastor. if you want to debate religion, I am sure there are plenty of people who will give you a better run for your money, on a different forum.
I also agree, this topic should be moved to Shooting the Breeze.
This thread has nothing to do with real estate. Move It!
Posted by: JoeyBagadonuts

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 11:45 PM

Originally Posted By: navarac
[quote=JoeyBagadonuts
But, if you want to talk about religion, go a religion forum/board. We dont need this crap here.


Who's we?
[/quote]

all of us

if you want to talk about cancer support, religion, or debate about stem cell research. none of them belong here.
Posted by: navarac

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 11:49 PM

I am going to call the police in redne, I mean Bucks County. Some criminal has a gun to Joey's head and is forcing him to click his mouse on topics that he is not interested in. This has to stop in a civilized society!




Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 11:50 PM

Are you God?

Ha Ha
Posted by: JoeyBagadonuts

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 11:53 PM

pretty soon i will start a thread about how a garden can increase a homes value. And then i will quickly change the topic to tomato plant growth problems.
Posted by: JoeyBagadonuts

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 11:54 PM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
Are you God?

Ha Ha


no, there is no god
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 11:58 PM

Whhhoooooo . . . that is scary . . . please don't start that thread. We will all be traumatized and forced to read every miserable word. Don't do it. For God's sake, control yourself!
Posted by: navarac

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/28/07 11:59 PM

There, now you're getting the hang of it...
Posted by: navarac

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 12:00 AM

I wish to publicly thank the moderators for letting us have a little fun discussing the meaning of life in one freakin thread. I mean, just because it's a RE board does not mean that we can't briefly explore the biggest big picture once in a while.

The thread went from religious content in a seminar to religion in business to religion itself. I see nothing at all wrong with that.

It will die a natural death shortly, as all expanded threads do.
Posted by: navarac

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 12:02 AM

And then it will go to Heaven with the other "saved" threads.
Posted by: JoeyBagadonuts

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 12:03 AM

Originally Posted By: navarac
And then it will go to Heaven with the other "saved" threads.


there is no heaven and there is no "saved" either.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 12:06 AM

I thought Keller Williams was a Christian based franchise. True or false?
Posted by: navarac

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 12:09 AM

Originally Posted By: JoeyBagadonuts
Originally Posted By: navarac
And then it will go to Heaven with the other "saved" threads.


there is no heaven and there is no "saved" either.


Now hold on, you can't prove that. 98% of the Earth's population disagrees. Oh shoot, wait, I agree with you.

Damn I love to argue.
Posted by: navarac

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 12:11 AM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
I thought Keller Williams was a Christian based franchise. True or false?


Smooth. Moving the thread back to religion in business. Soon we'll actually find out if there is religious content in the Buffini class. I can't wait.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 12:12 AM

The important question is, Is Jack Sparrow more interesting and a lot sexier than Jack Nicholson?

I say YES. There, you can all breathe a sigh of relief, and consider all the problems of the world solved.

Blackberry wine, anyone?
Posted by: navarac

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 12:17 AM

He is. However he is less interesting than, but a lot sexier than, Robert Deniro.

Disclaimer: I am male so my postulations on the sexiness of male stars is purely guesswork.

Posted by: navarac

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 12:19 AM

Which would also make him a better Focker...
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 12:24 AM

No, that's Dustin Hoffman, silly.
Posted by: Jeffo

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 12:25 AM

Originally Posted By: Prodigy
[quote=changeagent]
Jeff, Jeff Jeff Jeff.... I know you are a character so matching wit with you will be difficult, but why would our God, who was going to kill off humanity at one point, but decided that Noah, although he was not perfect he "walked" with God, would be worth saving the race. Then when things, after a very long time, went bad again and God wanted to kill us off again, but since his covenant with Noah said he wouldn't, he sent his own son to die in our stead. All he asks is that we acknowledge that his son died for our sins, and rose again after 3 days. That is all he asks, and don't blaspheme the Holy Spirit, that is not asking a lot, is it? So for you to turn your back and say well that is just to much, who is the stupid one? He has done everything he can.


Uh.... OK! I don't even know how to respond to that. Obviously we are on two different planets here.

I have not made it through the whole thread; kinda hit the above and just had to pause for some typing <g>. For all I know, everyone has long since made peace and if so, please don't allow this to stir up the pot.

My beef with religion in general, and Christianity in particular since it's the paradigm I labor under, is that it's essentially cult behavior, yet it's legitimized by the sheer quantity of folks who are believers. Ya'll believe some waaaay out-there stuff. How do you think it feels to know that an athiest will never be elected president of this country? That if I don't monitor my children carefully and try to feed them stuff to say to the other kids on the playground, it could literally damage my real estate career if I become known as an athiest? This is serious, serious stuff here. A large majority of Americans think that a god made us out of clay in a garden with a talking snake. I mean, that is just WHACK! And yet this is the world I have to try to live in. There's this mass fantasy that can have real effects on me if I don't pay toll, or pay respect, to it. And I don't like being told what to do and I don't like a debate predicated on an unprovable assertion- God exists- because it goes NOWHERE. So I generally just shut up about it.

Changeagent, you know exactly how I feel because it's how you feel about Muslims or people chanting booga-booga around a drum somewhere. You think they are nuts and wrong and misguided. Well... look in the mirror.

God didn't make man. Man made God. And it's time we outgrew the training wheels.

Finally, what is heartbreaking to me about this is twofold. First, I don't want us on this forum to lose our respect and sense of "team" that we have. I'm rooting for all of you, every single one. Second, outside the confines of a civilized internet debate *I really don't care that much what anyone believes*. I'm not out there with a sandwich board at intersections proclaiming that God is dead. If any of you were ever to hang with me you'd find me to be very respectful and non-confrontational about just about everything. I'm a lover, not a fighter. So my vote is we cool this debate down a little (hopefully you all have already) and move on.

-jeff
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 12:26 AM

Originally Posted By: navarac
He is. However he is less interesting than, but a lot sexier than, Robert Deniro.

Disclaimer: I am male so my postulations on the sexiness of male stars is purely guesswork.



Robert DeNiro is very sexy when he portrays Vito.

BTW, there is a guy who works in a WalMart near me who looks like a very short Robert DeNiro. and he is not sexy at all.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 12:29 AM

Jeff, relax, have some wine, and tell me who's sexier: Jack Sparrow, Jack Nicholson, Jack Jones, or Mickey Rooney?

(bonus points to anyone who knows, without googling, what show Jack Jones sang the theme song for)
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 12:37 AM

Jeff: It isn't clear to me what you mean by this:

Jeff said: "Changeagent, you know exactly how I feel because it's how you feel about Muslims or people chanting booga-booga around a drum somewhere. You think they are nuts and wrong and misguided. Well... look in the mirror."

Just for the record, I don't think Muslims or people chanting are "nuts," and I resent your characterization of me as having that opinion. I never said anything on this thread (or any other) that is even close to that sentiment.

I find it interesting that when a discussion hits a certain point, people want to "close it down?" What are you so afraid of?

If you don't want to be associated with this thread, don't post on it. I don't understand why people can't just butt out if something does not interest them.

Are we hurting anything?

I hate that Americans are so afraid to discuss meaty subjects.

Yes, let's just stick to the bland pap.

Let's discuss which actor is sexiest.

Talk about priorities!
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 12:42 AM

Hey, you're the one who said this thread can evolve to whatever people want to talk about. So, I want to talk about pirates and things like that.

It's been suggested a gazillion times to post a new thread in shooting the breeze - a forum set up specifically for off topic discussions. And if anyone is interested in discussing that particular topic, they will. If they don't, then you know that people on this board actually are more interested in talking about - gasp - real estate! Imagine that! Sexy actors are as appropriate to this discussion as is the origin of the Bible, the account of creation, and whether or not people walked with dinosaurs.

Talk about pissy. Are you going to pick up your dollies and go home?
Posted by: Jeffo

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 12:45 AM

Ha! I see, now that I plowed through the whole thread, that you be chillin'! Sweet! Now we are on MY planet! :-)

I missed all this. I was on the umpqua river all day in my canoe with my wife and kids, fishing and birdwatching. What a wonderful world this is! I can feel appreciation and awe, God or no god.

We had such a great 4-day weekend. Instead of doing a big trip, we did 4 smaller day-long adventures followed by great dinner and family time here on our 16 acres. We mountain biked... hiked...went on two seperate canoe adventures... had campfires every night here at the homestead, which is much more wild and remote than most campgrounds anyway... roasting marshmellows under the stars and silence with just the big oaks and cedars swaying around in the spring nightime breeze coming from the Pacific 40 miles away... played a lot of guitar, drank too much beer, fired up the BBQ for some venison I uh... harvested myself... Life is GRAND!

Oh, and it was my birthday today.

So I missed the whole argument! Oh well... glad you guys got things on a more even keel. Peace! Let's go sell some friggin' REAL ESTATE!!!

(I have a deal to try and salvage tomorrow... bleah... 60 year old orange shared sewer line, no easement from the neighbor... blah blah blah... a real disturbance in the Force for this deal!)

-jeff
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 12:50 AM

Bless you, Perky, you little devil!

Jeff: I crave the silence you allude to . . . it sounds (drum roll) . . .DIVINE!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Jeffo

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 12:50 AM

ChangeAgent:

I'll debate this as long and hard as you want, but you ain't convincing me, and I ain't convincing you! So what's the point...

I'm with the Perkster. Let's let it go. Or we can debate it in private email: handwired@gmail.com

However I will say, in private email I will be very blunt. I really truly think Christianity is a dark force in humanity and needs to go away, as do the other diety-based religions. We need to grow up. So if you really truly want to debate someone who will just come out and say things like that <g>, then OK... but I'd rather not. I'd rather we both had a GREAT DAY tomorrow, you in your reality and me in mine!

Peace. Beer. Understanding. :-)

-jeff
Posted by: Jeffo

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 12:52 AM

Ha! We're playing leapfrogging posts here.

-jeff
Posted by: navarac

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 12:52 AM

Originally Posted By: Perky_REALTOR
No, that's Dustin Hoffman, silly.


Oh yeah...
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 12:54 AM

I love silence. I don't get it much, but I do enjoy it. sounds like you had a great day, Jeff.
Posted by: navarac

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 12:59 AM

I also hear Johnny Depp is up for more Pirates action:

From a Newsweek interview:
"He's a blast to play," he says. "I'll be in a deep, dark depression saying goodbye to him." He laughs. "I'll keep the costume and just prance around the house, entertain the kids." Or the rest of the world. "Maybe 'Pirates 4, 5 and 6'," he says. "If they had a good script, why not? I mean, at a certain point, the madness must stop, but for the moment, I can't say that he's done."


Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 01:02 AM

People I must issue a warning. Do not talk on the phone about a serious manner and read this thread. It was all I could do not to laugh while reading about the tomato. I had to think about something else. And now I have this image of "Thread Heaven and Hell Thread" It's not a pretty picture let me tell you.
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 01:06 AM

Dang I go to eat a cupcake and post my response and about 15 have come in since Joey's making mine looked whacked out of place. OK Johnny Depp is so so but Capt. Jack Sparrow is totally HOT. Now I need to go back and see what Jeff is talking about since I think it is more in line with the original post. But I saw Sexy Jack Sparrow and had to deal with the important issues first.
Posted by: Jeffo

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 01:10 AM

Perky, we are last property on a dead-end rural road... nearest houses are over a quarter mile away in 3 directions.

It's very quiet and peaceful and contained. We love it. Bought it obscenely cheap by today's standards in 1992, a couple years out of college... got really, really lucky!

OTOH, you all would laugh at my house! It's funky. Some good funky, some bad funky. We are on the fence as to whether to tear it down and build new, or else use part of it and build an addition. In the meantime we just keep living in it. Current Best Idea is to tear down the whole back, which is two bedrooms and a bathroom, rotate the front section (nice porch, living room, attic bedroom, kitchen) 180 degrees and move it about 30 yards and put it on a new foundation, then build about a 1200- ft/2 3 bed 2 bath addition to it. The 180-degree rotation is to get the light right. They built a neat front part of this house- great vibe- but they put the chimney and nice staircase on the south side of the room, which limits our ability to pull light through that wall in the winter. The 30 yard moving of the remaining home gets us out from under some seriously large towering fir and cedar trees (our trees) which get pretty intensly creepy in bad windstorms! There are trees 5 feet across at the base, within about 25 feet of my house...

Yeah, I'm feeling like I had a great weekend! Lots of warmth and love was passed back and forth within our family this weekend... and ANYTHING to connect with my 12-year-old daughter is a good thing! Warmth and love ranking right up there with the BEST things.

-jeff
Posted by: Paul Oaks

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 01:11 AM

Jeff,
Here is a thought for you.

As an Atheist you believe there is no God and no afterlife.

As a Catholic I believe in God and the afterlife.

One of us is Wrong! If it is me then I likely missed out by following a moral code of behavior during my life. If it is you then you will be living with that error for for a long hot eternity.
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 01:11 AM

Heck I missed the best part from Jeff.
In my best Marilyn Monroe voice "Happy Birthday Mister Agent Happy birthday to you."
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 01:12 AM

Originally Posted By: navarac
I also hear Johnny Depp is up for more Pirates action:

From a Newsweek interview:
"He's a blast to play," he says. "I'll be in a deep, dark depression saying goodbye to him." He laughs. "I'll keep the costume and just prance around the house, entertain the kids." Or the rest of the world. "Maybe 'Pirates 4, 5 and 6'," he says. "If they had a good script, why not? I mean, at a certain point, the madness must stop, but for the moment, I can't say that he's done."




You know, as much as I love Jack Sparrow and Pirates (actually I have a thing for Barbosa, too...he's got such a wickedly delicious voice) I am not too keen on a 4th, 5th, or 6th...I really am not into multiple sequels...3 is enough. I am also a big Indiana Jones fan and am really not interested in an Indy 4. Let the series stand as it is with dignity. I thought Pirates 2 was gonna kill it, but fortunately, #3 was an excellent addition and also, a great way to end this pop culture phenomenon (sp?) that gave Johnny his much deserved blockbuster success.

Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 01:14 AM

Originally Posted By: Paul Oaks
Jeff,
Here is a thought for you.

As an Atheist you believe there is no God and no afterlife.

As a Catholic I believe in God and the afterlife.

One of us is Wrong! If it is me then I likely missed out by following a moral code of behavior during my life. If it is you then you will be living with that error for for a long hot eternity.

OH gee Paul, me and my husband have been having this "discussion" (we don't argue:)) for 14 years now.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 01:16 AM

Hey Jeff...wanna hear how wacky my house is? No? too bad, I'm gonna tell ya anyway.

Hubby was redoing some plumbing in the basement. He had put in new lines for something, I forget what, and saw some lines that were not (apparantly) connected to anything. As our home's basement used to serve as a local laundromat in the 1950s and 60s, this did not surprise him. What did surprise him, though, was when he cut through the pipe and HOT water gushed out. He figured out the source of the hot water: it was the neighbor's house...built in the 1970s.

Yes, the line ran underground to the neighbor's basement (the first owner of this house also built that house next door.)

Why he connected a hot water line FROM that house TO this house, we'll never know. Sadly, we never knew about this and used our OWN hot water heater for our water. LOL

One of life's little mysteries.
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 01:24 AM

Originally Posted By: Secret_Agent
I'll bite...Why the "Do you play chess?" question Cool Cat?


Actually, the chess analogy is more in the way the game is played. You have to think your moves ahead of time allowing for different scenarios. Some times setting up your opponent to move or respond in a certain way. The chess masters (I play, but I am not one of them) have games committed to memory and series of moves that can be played depending on how the other player reacts or moves. This is the way "scripts" or dialogs should be used in real estate. A skilled and knowledgeable agent knows all of the possible objections and responses and knows how to counter or expound on them. This can only be done through complete knowledge of the business, read and practice "scripts", role playing, and finally by experience. A skilled agent will take note at what "dialog worked and at what "dialog" did not work and will make adjustments until a skilled script is perfected. Meaning, a skilled agent will basically say and do the same things that fit each scenario. To suggest not using scripts is to fly by the seat of your pants and hit and miss in your success never reaching the 5% of the agents that do know the power of scripts.
Posted by: Jeffo

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 01:26 AM

Originally Posted By: Paul Oaks
Jeff,

As an Atheist you believe there is no God and no afterlife.

As a Catholic I believe in God and the afterlife.

One of us is Wrong! If it is me then I likely missed out by following a moral code of behavior during my life. If it is you then you will be living with that error for for a long hot eternity.


I'm OK with that! No God would throw me in hell anyway. I'm a good person. I'll stand by my "moral code of behavior" any day. Should it turn out there really is a diety sitting there micro-managing every single blessed man Jack amongst us, totting up our deeds and misdeeds on a balance sheet... I'll still come out just fine! :-)

Hell is a fairy tale created to scare people. But it's not working.

...and Paul, just gotta say, I was baptized Catholic and my mom is a devout Catholic. I've been in a bunch of Catholic churches, eaten the flesh, drank the blood, cowered under the gargoyles and great bloody Jesus's... a Catholic has NO ground to stand on if they start trying to whack people with their religion, as in: "If it is you then you will be living with that error for for a long hot eternity". What a devout Catholic believes and does in service of those beliefs is pretty far out there. Been there, done that! I'm not saying you are a bad person or that Catholics are bad people, just that holy cow, in any rational description of a cult, that'd have to be pretty far up in the discussion.

Hey, as a pleasant aside, if you are into that kind of stuff anyone interested should tour, (or go to Mass at if your are of the faith), the Catholic church in Socorro, NM where I grew up. Built by Conquistadores in like the early 1500's or something. Oldest church in North America. You want a direct shot back to the middle ages... there it is! Bones of various people in urns... leering statues... the whole works.

-jeff

-jeff
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 01:36 AM

Originally Posted By: Cool Cat
Originally Posted By: Secret_Agent
I'll bite...Why the "Do you play chess?" question Cool Cat?


Actually, the chess analogy is more in the way the game is played. You have to think your moves ahead of time allowing for different scenarios. Some times setting up your opponent to move or respond in a certain way. The chess masters (I play, but I am not one of them) have games committed to memory and series of moves that can be played depending on how the other player reacts or moves. This is the way "scripts" or dialogs should be used in real estate. A skilled and knowledgeable agent knows all of the possible objections and responses and knows how to counter or expound on them. This can only be done through complete knowledge of the business, read and practice "scripts", role playing, and finally by experience. A skilled agent will take note at what "dialog worked and at what "dialog" did not work and will make adjustments until a skilled script is perfected. Meaning, a skilled agent will basically say and do the same things that fit each scenario. To suggest not using scripts is to fly by the seat of your pants and hit and miss in your success never reaching the 5% of the agents that do know the power of scripts.

I hate to say this...but after three years of being told to learn scripts this is the first time I have heard of a reason that actually make sense to me. Of course my husband plays in tournaments so the Chess analogy works for me. Do you know how many games I have watched him "practice" from a book? I think a light bulb just went off cry Damn I so don't want to go drag out all my old scripts. Double Damn don't use a Chess analogy again you are just creating more work for me wink
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 01:37 AM

I am not Catholic but one of the most spectacular sites these eyes have ever seen is the Cathedral Basilica in St. Louis. The entire place is a museum of Byzantine (I think) style Mosaics. It is reportedly the largest collection of religious mosaic art in North America.

Simply beautiful.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 01:38 AM

I think it would be appropriate for me to state: CHECK!

wink

Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 01:38 AM

Originally Posted By: Jeff Olsen
Hey, as a pleasant aside, if you are into that kind of stuff anyone interested should tour, (or go to Mass at if your are of the faith), the Catholic church in Socorro, NM where I grew up. Built by Conquistadores in like the early 1500's or something. Oldest church in North America. You want a direct shot back to the middle ages... there it is! Bones of various people in urns... leering statues... the whole works.

-jeff

I am in NM and I am not taking that day trip Jeff. YUCK and double YUCK.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 01:40 AM

Originally Posted By: Secret_Agent
Originally Posted By: Jeff Olsen
Hey, as a pleasant aside, if you are into that kind of stuff anyone interested should tour, (or go to Mass at if your are of the faith), the Catholic church in Socorro, NM where I grew up. Built by Conquistadores in like the early 1500's or something. Oldest church in North America. You want a direct shot back to the middle ages... there it is! Bones of various people in urns... leering statues... the whole works.

-jeff

I am in NM and I am not taking that day trip Jeff. YUCK and double YUCK.


Actually, it sounds pretty cool and you need to write a blog about it. Maybe tie it in with pirate curses or something.
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 01:46 AM

Well I have to admit that was my first thought...write a blog! But YUCK! I could write about XYZ Center but if I say what center than we will be back on the religious track. Speaking of religion didn't Paris Hilton say she is turning to religion after her recent jail experience. Maybe she spent time in the church in Socorro. Paris Hilton + Jail (Socorro Church) = Religion.
Posted by: Jeffo

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 01:56 AM

Oh man. Oh man. The following equation:

Paris Hilton + Jail (Socorro Church) = Religion.

... is just blowing my mind. Does....not...compute! Not.... sure.... why.... not....!

Those words have never before existed together in a sentence! Ever! Paris Hilton... Jail (Socorro Church)... Religion... it's never been done! You could give a million zillion monkeys a million zillion typewriters and let them type for a million zillion years and you'd get Shakespeare, sure, but not THAT!!

Gaaaa! Worlds colliding! You've melted my brain!

-jeff (I'm off to bed... need some rest from my vacation!)
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 01:57 AM

I think that sounds interesting. Wonder if Britney Spears can join her somehow. Maybe it can be their new shrine. At least the church will get an increase in young male visitors, anyway.
Posted by: Artiste

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 02:00 AM

Lust is a sin.
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 02:09 AM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
Sm: You imply that I was pushing Ms. Perky Realtor (talk about sexual innuendos) to respond to me, when I was not.

I think Ms. Perky should be changed to Ms. Pissy, because of her overreaction.

CoolCat: No, I have not taken that course or workshop or whatever it is.

You are obsessed with scripts and chess. What an interesting speciality!


changeagent: Well you answered one question out of four. You have not taken the course or workshop or whatever it is. (That makes you an expert on this thread.) For some reason you do not want to answer the others. You berate Perky but dodge these harmless questions.

1) Have you taken the 100 Days to Greatness class? No, (You answered)

2) When you get in informal "debates" concerning religion (in light of the fact that you studied world religions at the graduate level) do you find yourself or the other party resorting to using the same dialog or "scripts"?Yes or No

3) Have you watched What tHe BLeep!? "Down The Rabbit Hole" or The Secret? No Response

4) Do you play chess? Yes or No

---------------------
Now taking on whether Catholics are Christians and the debate between Changeagent and Prodigy, I'll leave them to play that game themselves. I am like Perky in several ways, I am a "born again believer" but have problems with organized religion and mans doctrines.

"born again believer" Did I say "SAVED"

Originally Posted By: navarac
Another interesting linguistic wrinkle: Certain Christians like to refer to themselves as "saved". Leaving the rest of us out in the cold I guess. Or more accurately, submerged in the heat.

It just says something about group psychology and weakness of character when members of a religious sect summarily declare
its followers to be "saved".

Don't you think?


--------------------------------------
Originally Posted By: seattlemetal
Originally Posted By: Cool Cat


Now to ask a few questions of seattlemetal:

Can you learn from a teacher or instructor who is religious?

Could someone teach you how to paint a house if they were religious?

If the "house painter" referenced God or claimed he got his abilities from The Lord God Almighty would that negate everything you learned from "the painter" making you unable to or even want to paint a house using his techniques, shortcuts, type of paint brush, and the same brand of paint?

Will you have an open mind to the basic fundamentals of working your sphere of influence taught by Brian Buffini?


I think you may be missing the point...I never qustioned whether the class was valueable, nor did I ever say that the presence of religious content would prevent me from benefitting from the class. thats not the issue....

could I learn from someone who is religous? of course, I have, and do. let me ask you- can the religious learn from an atheist?

for those of you who are religious...If you were told you HAD to take a class, and pay $400 for it, and then you were to stand up and say "there is no god" in that class, how would you feel?

all of you should think about that for a second....think about that while you are telling me that its no big deal....

I think we can tell, by how wound up everyone has been in this thread, that it IS a big deal to everyone....no matter which side you are on....


1) I can learn from atheists.
2) If I was taking a class that was $400, I would learn what I could but would have no trouble not saying or repeating something I did not want to. (In church I rarely sing when every one else does, if I don't like the words.)
3) If I was an atheists, which I used to be an agnostic prior to becoming a "born again believer". I would say it was no big deal. I certainly would not fret over the subject and start this post. That is why it took me so long to even join in this thread because I agree with the second response in this long thread. (See Below)
4) I truly feel this topic is "No Big Deal". You (seattlemetal) are feeling insecure for some reason? To quote my aloof friend changeagent "You're kidding,right?"

Originally Posted By: REODayton
I've never taken the class but I have listened to him alot. He may say God once in a while but not trying to convert or use religious overtones.
Just curious though. Why would you ask such a question?



This is my final three questions in this post:

seattlemetal are you doing the Buffini program, if so can you see where it is $400. well spent?
seattlemetal Have you watched What tHe BLeep!? "Down The Rabbit Hole" or The Secret
Perky are you drinking blackberry wine and getting pissy?
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 02:14 AM

Well according to the typewriting monkey's who do work out of a back room in a church in Socorro Britney Spears has given up religion. But according to my new math:
Britney Spears(Paris Hilton + Jail) + Socorro Church = HOT New Reality TV Show.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 02:14 AM

Sadly, Cool Cat, I am not drinking any wine. I forgot that I drank it all yesterday and had to content myself with too much iced tea and thoughts of the Pirate Code and commandeering an annoying thread.

As to being pissy...well, I'll let you be the judge. wink
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 02:16 AM

Perky you just winked at me! Remember we are married and can't blame the iced tea.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 02:16 AM

Originally Posted By: Secret_Agent
Well according to the typewriting monkey's who do work out of a back room in a church in Socorro Britney Spears has given up religion. But according to my new math:
Britney Spears(Paris Hilton + Jail) + Socorro Church = HOT New Reality TV Show.


Ooo, ooo! I love it. What will it be called? An American Idol Named Paris At the End of Her Spears?

Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 02:17 AM

Originally Posted By: Cool Cat
Perky you just winked at me! Remember we are married and can't blame the iced tea.


Ooo, sorry. The thoughts of a reality show with Paris and Britney, on top of all this pirate talk and stuff got the better of me. I take it back. lol
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 02:18 AM

And I wonder why my localism blog is not getting finished... tsk tsk

well I have to wait till tomorrow anyway to get some pictures.

Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 02:21 AM

An American Idol Named Paris At the End of Her Spears?
Come out and see the latest reality TV show in the hot desert of Socorro NM. It will be getting hotter as we see these two celebrities show us just why "Lust = Sin" when we take:
Paris + Britney + Church (typewriting monkeys)= rating through the roof for MTV!
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 02:23 AM

Perky I am feeling your pain I am being gently reminded that I have a blog to post, well he isn't looking to nice about it at the moment. I even have the photos. I might even have some sneak peek photos of the newest reality show out of NM. This new math is really confusing!
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 02:23 AM

Well folks, I know you hate to hear this but I am going to back away from the keyboard and put myself to sleep, hopefully, by reading the next chapter of my favorite bedtime story: Obsession, An FBI Profiler's Journey into the Psyche of Killers, and stuff like that.

My other hobby, besides all things pirate, is reading true crime stories. I loaned out Realty Blogging so I can't review that, so a bit if reading up on the BTK and Ted Bundy and the like is just the thing I need to send me off into la la land.

G'night! It's been fun!
Posted by: Jennifer Allan

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 07:07 AM

Good morning, all!

If you really wanted to have an intelligent, adult conversation/discussion about religious belief and the reasons for it, you might try a new approach. Howzabout something like "I don't believe there is a God and I have good reasons for my belief; however, I understand that many disagree and they have equally good reasons for their belief" ... instead of (to paraphrase) "There is no God and people who believe in God are non-thinkers and stupid."

For all of you who flat out declare that "There is no God," you sound kind of silly. You have no more "proof" of that "fact" than you perceive believers have that there is a God. Showing a little respect for other viewpoints will take you farther than your flippant disregard for them.

As a former atheist, raised in a family that was "too intelligent to believe in God," I can easily see your side and can relate to the perceived silliness of it all. I used to read the Children's Bible with my mother and make fun of it because it was so obviously WRONG. I DO see how you can believe (or don't believe as the case may be) the way you do; try to show the same respect. When you don't, you're just as bad as the ridiculous evangelists and militant religious folks you criticize.

Posted by: smg

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 08:42 AM

Originally Posted By: Perky_REALTOR
Jeff, relax, have some wine, and tell me who's sexier: Jack Sparrow, Jack Nicholson, Jack Jones, or Mickey Rooney?

(bonus points to anyone who knows, without googling, what show Jack Jones sang the theme song for)


Love Boat?
Posted by: JoeyBagadonuts

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 08:51 AM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
I thought Keller Williams was a Christian based franchise. True or false?


I don't knowif they are or not. But I have never heard anyone mention Christianity or any other religion for that matter.
Posted by: JoeyBagadonuts

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 08:59 AM

I go to sleep and this is what I get to wake up to? 5 more pages of crap posts ! lol
Posted by: JoeyBagadonuts

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 09:04 AM

Originally Posted By: Jennifer Allan
Good morning, all!

If you really wanted to have an intelligent, adult conversation/discussion about religious belief and the reasons for it, you might try a new approach. Howzabout something like "I don't believe there is a God and I have good reasons for my belief; however, I understand that many disagree and they have equally good reasons for their belief" ... instead of (to paraphrase) "There is no God and people who believe in God are non-thinkers and stupid."

For all of you who flat out declare that "There is no God," you sound kind of silly. You have no more "proof" of that "fact" than you perceive believers have that there is a God. Showing a little respect for other viewpoints will take you farther than your flippant disregard for them.
As a former atheist, raised in a family that was "too intelligent to believe in God," I can easily see your side and can relate to the perceived silliness of it all. I used to read the Children's Bible with my mother and make fun of it because it was so obviously WRONG. I DO see how you can believe (or don't believe as the case may be) the way you do; try to show the same respect. When you don't, you're just as bad as the ridiculous evangelists and militant religious folks you criticize.



1.) I don't see that happening anytime soon. Too many characters here.

2.) This is why I say this topic should be moved.


Posted by: FlatFeeKing

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 09:09 AM

what does real estate have to do with religion? I dont get it. a new agent in my office just said the teacher in their licensing class said, "take this study material like you take the bible, exactly literally" and im thinking, I take the bible a whole different way
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 09:25 AM

Originally Posted By: JoeyBagadonuts
I go to sleep and this is what I get to wake up to? 5 more pages of crap posts ! lol


I knew you'd love it, Joey. grin

Congratulations, Artiste, you win a gold star!!
Posted by: Elecat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 09:41 AM

Originally Posted By: smgardner
Originally Posted By: Perky_REALTOR
Jeff, relax, have some wine, and tell me who's sexier: Jack Sparrow, Jack Nicholson, Jack Jones, or Mickey Rooney?

(bonus points to anyone who knows, without googling, what show Jack Jones sang the theme song for)


Love Boat?


Yeppers!!

And to Perky -- Jack Sparrow, without a doubt!! wink


Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 09:47 AM

The Loooooooooove Boaaaat....

Ahhh, I'm reliving my Saturday nights as an adolescent. I had such a crush on Gopher.

Elecat, you are a women with divine taste!
Posted by: Elecat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 10:04 AM

Originally Posted By: Perky_REALTOR
The Loooooooooove Boaaaat....

Ahhh, I'm reliving my Saturday nights as an adolescent. I had such a crush on Gopher.

Elecat, you are a women with divine taste!


OMG, I loved Gopher, too!! Hmmm...so much for my divine taste. My preferred Monkey was Peter, and I couldn't get enough of Ringo. The 'pretty boys' just weren't needy enough for me. Guess that's where JS fits in...he sure does need a lot of help!

My kids saw #3 over the weekend. I'm so broke right now so I'll just wait till it comes out on DVD...then we'll buy it and add it to the collection.





Posted by: navarac

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 10:12 AM

Originally Posted By: Jennifer Allan
Good morning, all!

If you really wanted to have an intelligent, adult conversation/discussion about religious belief and the reasons for it, you might try a new approach. Howzabout something like "I don't believe there is a God and I have good reasons for my belief; however, I understand that many disagree and they have equally good reasons for their belief" ... instead of (to paraphrase) "There is no God and people who believe in God are non-thinkers and stupid."

For all of you who flat out declare that "There is no God," you sound kind of silly. You have no more "proof" of that "fact" than you perceive believers have that there is a God. Showing a little respect for other viewpoints will take you farther than your flippant disregard for them.

As a former atheist, raised in a family that was "too intelligent to believe in God," I can easily see your side and can relate to the perceived silliness of it all. I used to read the Children's Bible with my mother and make fun of it because it was so obviously WRONG. I DO see how you can believe (or don't believe as the case may be) the way you do; try to show the same respect. When you don't, you're just as bad as the ridiculous evangelists and militant religious folks you criticize.



I can't prove dragons do not exist.

See the problem? Of course they don't exist, but to prove it, I have to prove an arbitrary negative.

Belief vs non-belief are not equivalent positions. Non-belief simply requires observation of reality.

Belief requires an arbitrary postulate (God exists), followed by construction of a conceptual house of cards (organized religion).

Another common declaration: "There is so much beauty and order in the world that there simply HAD to be a designer.".

Um, No. What is here is natural and normal. And observable and knowable. It is not miraculous that there is order. It is simply mundane and ordinary, and is simply existence. Order is a human concept, a tool for organizing billions of observations. The universe is not orderly, it is what it is. We observe it and find order as part of our intellectual process. Order is a HUMAN thing.

By the way, our Solar System will one day be obliterated when our Sun goes nova. Every man, woman, child, and memory will be burned in sunfire. (Now there's a delicious irony) How "ORDERLY" will THAT BE???




Posted by: Jeffo

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 10:35 AM

What he said.

Jeff + Coffee not kicked in yet + long weekend = not a pirate.

-jeff
Posted by: Elecat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 10:35 AM

Originally Posted By: Elecat
My kids saw #3 over the weekend. I'm so broke right now so I'll just wait till it comes out on DVD...then we'll buy it and add it to the collection.


That sounded so negative! Let's try it this way:

"I'm saving my money to invest in my new real estate career!"

Yeah...that's better. laugh


Posted by: Jeffo

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 10:38 AM

I'm starting to feel the pinch too, 'cat! Need to pull that next commission. I am pretty happy that we managed to have four seperate rockin' adventures this 4-day weekend (kids had Friday off too) for a grand total of about $75, and most of that was gas. It's amazing what you can do on the cheap if you just keep focused on being... well... cheap!

-jeff
Posted by: Jennifer Allan

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 10:41 AM

Originally Posted By: Elecat
Originally Posted By: Elecat
My kids saw #3 over the weekend. I'm so broke right now so I'll just wait till it comes out on DVD...then we'll buy it and add it to the collection.


That sounded so negative! Let's try it this way:

"I'm saving my money to invest in my new real estate career!"

Yeah...that's better. laugh

Good girl 'cat.

BTW, Jack Sparrow gives me the creeps.


Posted by: Elecat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 10:52 AM

Originally Posted By: Jennifer Allan

Good girl 'cat.

BTW, Jack Sparrow gives me the creeps.


Really??? Wow...my daughter, her bestfriend and I just sit there drooling over him! Yeah, I know...I need help. wink But just about ANYthing that Johnny Depp's in works for me. Ok...maybe not Edward Scissorhands. Now THAT creeped me out!


Posted by: Elecat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 11:11 AM

Originally Posted By: Jeff Olsen
I'm starting to feel the pinch too, 'cat! Need to pull that next commission. I am pretty happy that we managed to have four seperate rockin' adventures this 4-day weekend (kids had Friday off too) for a grand total of about $75, and most of that was gas. It's amazing what you can do on the cheap if you just keep focused on being... well... cheap!

-jeff


That's great!! I'm lucky...mine are teenagers now and they
pay more of their own stuff. Well, the son gets his $$ from
mowing the lawn, and I guess it WOULD be cheaper if his step-dad
did it -- but it's worth it. The boy wants to play football when he's a fresheman in H.S. next year, so he'd might as well start getting his workout now. smile



Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 11:30 AM

Jeff: I think you have my position confused with someone else's. What you said makes no sense to me, what-so-ever:

"ChangeAgent:

I'll debate this as long and hard as you want, but you ain't convincing me, and I ain't convincing you! So what's the point..."

I'm just curious what you are talking about.

CoolCat:

Yes, I saw What the Bleep and The Secret. What of it?

No, I do not play chess and you are slipping in your chess game because I have told you that before.

Navarac:

I *believe* in some kind of (unknown) divinity, precisely because the world is so intricate and ordered. I am amazed at people who notice the detail of the world, yet have theories that it was all some kind of cosmic accident, coming out of what? If there was a speck of anything it had to come from somewhere . . .how do you address that pesky little problem?

Jennifer: Thanks for the lecture. Sounded quite pious, which is appropriate for this thread.


Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 11:34 AM

I hate to mock anyone but I can't believe people actually believe in hell and therefore align themselves with some organized religion as a way to hedge their bets.

If there is that spiteful, vengeful, mean man-god that Christians believe in then don't you think HE will take points off for that tactic?
Posted by: Agent 007

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 11:39 AM

Wow. This thread got way out of hand. It filled my email inbox with all emails from this thread!'

If we all have different opinions about religion, great. But why is everyone arguing about it on here. This really isn't the place for it. I don't mind it, but prospects Googling your name might. Try thinking about that.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 11:58 AM

I did and no results on the first few pages . . . It is sad if people who go into business for themselves to be themselves, then have to hide their real selves for fear of losing clients.

I say people who appreciate my personality and point-of-view will want to work with me and those who don't are better suited to someone else.

I mean we are all different and there are plenty of us for everyone's taste!

Why try to fit square pegs into round holes (clients who don't suit our personalities).

Polictical correctness has made everyone wusses. People used to be proud of what they stood for and who they are - now everyone hides behind a mask to present the perfect facade of a human being, but not a real human being, Goddess forbid!
Posted by: navarac

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 11:58 AM

Originally Posted By: changeagent

Navarac:

I *believe* in some kind of (unknown) divinity, precisely because the world is so intricate and ordered. I am amazed at people who notice the detail of the world, yet have theories that it was all some kind of cosmic accident, coming out of what? If there was a speck of anything it had to come from somewhere . . .how do you address that pesky little problem?



The universe is NOT intricate or ordered. "Intricacy" and "order" are what WE impose on the observed world to make sense out of what would be trillions of unconnected observations.

Order is a tool that we use, nothing more.

As far as the origins of the Universe? Just another problem to be solved through application of science and intellect. Like Polio. Will we ever solve it? No one knows. We might be good enough, we might not. Time will tell.

As far as the "speck of anything" and your assertion that it had to come from somewhere? Um, no. It didn't. It is possible the Universe has no beginning and no end. Though we have a hard time with the concept of infinity, since our lives begin and end, it is quite possible that the Universe always was and always will be. It DID NOT have to begin.


Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 12:03 PM

The universe is not intricate and ordered? Have you read National Geographic or just looked at the pictures? How about the food chain, is that just a mess that fell into place? The insect world . . . take even the lives of ants or bees . . . the examples are infinite. What would cause you not to notice the intricacy I wonder.

Funny that you assert that the universe had no beginning or end . . .that's what "they" say about God . . . HE would like that!

But seriously, you don't really believe that, do you? How would that be possible from your perspective? Give me a theory.
Posted by: navarac

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 12:35 PM

You are failing to understand the concept of "order". Order is something WE bring to the table. It is a tool of the human mind. Intricacy is a human concept. Meaning something is not simple to understand at first glance. Intricate simply means that serious observation and intellect is required to grasp a particular facet of reality. Again, a function of the human intellect.

Because we notice connections among observed phenomena, that is supposed to be wonderful? Or "designed"? Or miraculous? No, it's simply what it is and we happen to notice it. And categorize it. And organize it mentally. And THERE we have the "Order". Nothing very special really. Just things as they are, and "ordered" by our intellect so that we can grasp and deal with large quantities of observed data.

And I did NOT ASSERT that the Universe has no beginning or no end. I stated that this COULD BE. We don't know yet and may never know. Or we may know within some finite amount of time.

Think of numbers. It is easy to conceive infinity as you count up or down forever. Time may have the same properties. Extending forward and backward into infinity without beginning or end. It is a possibility.

Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 01:00 PM

On your theory of order - that it is a factor of the human mind and nothing else . . . one, that's some human mind that can accomplish such feats - why would there be such a human mind as that from your theoretical standpoint . . . and two, what a leap that must be to have to postulate such a theory when the evidence all around you, including your mind, the bacteria, the insects, the animals, the properties of the natural world, etc., etc. There are relationships we don't even know about "we" being the common, uninformed person. Imagine if we could know all that exists on this planet, in this universe, in all universes . . . how do you explain the exisitence of all that is . . .

That you asserted that the universe could be infinite, with no beginning or end is still funny to me, given your posture. And what would a reason be for such a universe - or if you don't like reason, what would a cause be?
Posted by: Jennifer Allan

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 01:16 PM

Executive decision... this thread will be moved to Shooting the Breeze. I think we answered the OP's question to the best of our ability.
Posted by: JoeyBagadonuts

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 05:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Agent 007
Wow. This thread got way out of hand. It filled my email inbox with all emails from this thread!'

If we all have different opinions about religion, great. But why is everyone arguing about it on here. This really isn't the place for it. I don't mind it, but prospects Googling your name might. Try thinking about that.


I agree. this crap should go elsewhere
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 05:53 PM

Originally Posted By: navarac


Another common declaration: "There is so much beauty and order in the world that there simply HAD to be a designer.".

Um, No. What is here is natural and normal. And observable and knowable. It is not miraculous that there is order. It is simply mundane and ordinary, and is simply existence. Order is a human concept, a tool for organizing billions of observations. The universe is not orderly, it is what it is. We observe it and find order as part of our intellectual process. Order is a HUMAN thing.



Find another one then if it is so mundane....
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 09:25 PM

Originally Posted By: navarac
Originally Posted By: changeagent

Navarac:

I *believe* in some kind of (unknown) divinity, precisely because the world is so intricate and ordered. I am amazed at people who notice the detail of the world, yet have theories that it was all some kind of cosmic accident, coming out of what? If there was a speck of anything it had to come from somewhere . . .how do you address that pesky little problem?




The universe is NOT intricate or ordered. "Intricacy" and "order" are what WE impose on the observed world to make sense out of what would be trillions of unconnected observations.

Order is a tool that we use, nothing more.

As far as the origins of the Universe? Just another problem to be solved through application of science and intellect. Like Polio. Will we ever solve it? No one knows. We might be good enough, we might not. Time will tell.

As far as the "speck of anything" and your assertion that it had to come from somewhere? Um, no. It didn't. It is possible the Universe has no beginning and no end. Though we have a hard time with the concept of infinity, since our lives begin and end, it is quite possible that the Universe always was and always will be. It DID NOT have to begin.


[/i]
This is the guy arguing [i]for
logic?
Posted by: seattlemetal

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 10:44 PM

heres a fun question....

god will send me to hell for being an atheist..but then...god made me in the first place, knowing I would be an atheist....so would you say that my god given destiny is to go to hell?


Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 10:49 PM

SM that is a mind bender that is for sure.
Posted by: navarac

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 10:58 PM

"Shooting the Breeze". A cemetery where threads that frustrate moderators go to die.

Here lies the Buffini thread. May it rest in peace.


Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/29/07 11:32 PM

It does seem kind of creepy down here. It's just not the same.

What's with Joey and his "crap" all over the place (have you seen his web site - it actually says he will do a great job without the "crap.")

He has a thing for crap. This thread is crap, yet he will spare his clients crap. Crap, crap, crap.
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/30/07 12:03 AM

Maybe Joey wants to spare his clients from this thread!
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/30/07 12:07 AM

He doesn't know what he is missing.

I actually don't know why he came all the way down here to hell to say we needed to cut the crap.
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/30/07 12:43 AM

Don't talk to me about HELL I feel like I was there today. It was 82 outside and 80 inside and that is with the A/C. I don't know what is will be like when it hits 90. Can I say CRAP now?
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/30/07 12:56 AM

Is it cooler down here?
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/30/07 01:10 AM

It certainly feels like it has cooled WAY down now that we are here.
Posted by: navarac

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/30/07 02:18 AM

I can't broadcast in this time slot. My Nielsens will tank.
Posted by: TopPropertyAgent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/30/07 02:35 AM

WOW I'm lost
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/30/07 03:09 AM

Originally Posted By: Cool Cat
Originally Posted By: changeagent

CoolCat: No, I have not taken that course or workshop or whatever it is.

You are obsessed with scripts and chess. What an interesting speciality!


changeagent: Well you answered one question out of four. You have not taken the course or workshop or whatever it is. (That makes you an expert on this thread.) For some reason you do not want to answer the others. You berate Perky but dodge these harmless questions.

1) Have you taken the 100 Days to Greatness class? No, (You answered)

2) When you get in informal "debates" concerning religion (in light of the fact that you studied world religions at the graduate level) do you find yourself or the other party resorting to using the same dialog or "scripts"?Yes or No

3) Have you watched What tHe BLeep!? "Down The Rabbit Hole" or The Secret? No Response

4) Do you play chess? Yes or No



Originally Posted By: changeagent

CoolCat:

Yes, I saw What the Bleep and The Secret. What of it?

No, I do not play chess and you are slipping in your chess game because I have told you that before.



Changeagent,
There is still one question you keep dodging which is #2 on this list.

1) Have you taken the 100 Days to Greatness class? No, (You answered negatively, so I am trying to see how you have anything constructive or have any real insight to add to the post)

2) When you get in informal "debates" concerning religion (in light of the fact that you studied world religions at the graduate level) do you find yourself or the other party resorting to using the same dialog or "scripts"?Yes or No

3) Have you watched What tHe BLeep!? "Down The Rabbit Hole" or The Secret? Yes

4) Do you play chess? No, I do not play chess and you are slipping in your chess game because I have told you that before.(You have never said that on this forum, prove it.)
Posted by: Jennifer Allan

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/30/07 06:54 AM

It does seem rather quiet down here, doesn't it? Maybe this thread will liven up the place????

Navarac... nah, I'm not frustrated. Just doin' my job.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/30/07 10:55 AM

CoolCat: Pay attention: I don't play chess and I hate scripts, so therefore do not use them. You are a dense one.
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/30/07 12:49 PM

Originally Posted By: seattlemetal
heres a fun question....

god will send me to hell for being an atheist..but then...god made me in the first place, knowing I would be an atheist....so would you say that my god given destiny is to go to hell?



Please do a little more research, God didn't make you an atheist, he gave you free will to make your own choices. What kind of God would it be that made you love him, that's like telling your child to love you.
Posted by: JoeyBagadonuts

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/30/07 04:36 PM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
It does seem kind of creepy down here. It's just not the same.

What's with Joey and his "crap" all over the place (have you seen his web site - it actually says he will do a great job without the "crap.")

He has a thing for crap. This thread is crap, yet he will spare his clients crap. Crap, crap, crap.


Still talkin crap?

How does it feel to be in the Under World?
Posted by: seattlemetal

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/30/07 06:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Prodigy
Originally Posted By: seattlemetal
heres a fun question....

god will send me to hell for being an atheist..but then...god made me in the first place, knowing I would be an atheist....so would you say that my god given destiny is to go to hell?



Please do a little more research, God didn't make you an atheist, he gave you free will to make your own choices. What kind of God would it be that made you love him, that's like telling your child to love you.


I'm fully aware of the 'free will' pat answer...but the fact remains, that if there were a god, and he knows everything, as most religons claim, then he knew I would be an atheist...while he created me.....he knew I would be going to hell, AS he was giving me life....right? so therefoe he created me TO send to hell...

unless god doesnt know everything....?


anyway...I'm not here to try and convince you not to believe, and you certainly cant give me a valid reason TO believe....so you dont have to answer these questions if you dont want to...it is pretty much pointless discussion anyway :o) till science comes up with an answer anyway...

thanks for participating in the discussion!


Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/30/07 07:51 PM

Originally Posted By: seattlemetal
heres a fun question....

god will send me to hell for being an atheist..but then...god made me in the first place, knowing I would be an atheist....so would you say that my god given destiny is to go to hell?




That's what most Calvinists would say. wink

No, I am not a Calvinist.

Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/30/07 07:55 PM

I know what I am and you all know what you are. Why does anyone feel the need to convince everyone that their way is the only way? I have spent the last 14 years in a very nice relationship with my husband and we have vastly different beliefs. Yet somehow we have managed. I don't try and change him to mine and he doesn't try and change me to his and we live with the other person! If we don't feel the need to change someone we love and live with why do you (whoever cares to answer) feels the need to change someone you have never even meet?
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/30/07 08:29 PM

Two issues:

I don't think the Calvinists would agree with that at all. They believed in destiny, but not in the way that would exclude god.

Secret: I find it fascinating that you two want to be married to each other (no disrespect). I have thought long and hard about relationships and it seems to be that common values are key. If you don't have common values, how can you respect the other person's values?

I think that before anyone gets serious they should really ask themselves what they have in common with the one they are attracted to and how their values match up.

I guess relgious differences wouldn't be a big thing if the core values were similar.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/30/07 08:29 PM

And I don't know what I am or who you are. I don't know anything.
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/30/07 09:59 PM

Well the only difference in our core values is who and what Jesus Christ is. Now for him it's big deal for me not so much so. But the basic of how to live our lives and how we treat others is the same. I really can't explain it. We both knew going in what the other one's belief system was. I know most people question how we can have such different belief structures and be together. But as I have said it works. He takes our daughter to church and I have gone with them on a rare occasion. I have taken our daughter for Dharma classes and he has come on the rare occasion. We make it work. It's not a problem. We both agree on the basics. Killing, sexual misconduct, etc.

Wow that may have been more than you may have asked for changeagent!
Posted by: smg

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/30/07 10:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Secret_Agent
I know what I am and you all know what you are. Why does anyone feel the need to convince everyone that their way is the only way? I have spent the last 14 years in a very nice relationship with my husband and we have vastly different beliefs. Yet somehow we have managed. I don't try and change him to mine and he doesn't try and change me to his and we live with the other person! If we don't feel the need to change someone we love and live with why do you (whoever cares to answer) feels the need to change someone you have never even meet?


My wife and I are very much in love and very best friends. We have entirely different beliefs and respect each other and our right to those beliefs...it has never once been an issue.
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/30/07 10:13 PM

See changeagent I am not the only one it appears.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/30/07 10:18 PM

I understood Calvinists to believe that you are either elect, or you are not elect, and only the elect are going to heaven, everyone else, sorry, do not pass go, you are headed for hell, no ifs ands or buts.

But I'm not all that knowledgable about it anyway.
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/30/07 11:30 PM

Originally Posted By: seattlemetal


I'm fully aware of the 'free will' pat answer...but the fact remains, that if there were a god, and he knows everything, as most religons claim, then he knew I would be an atheist...while he created me.....he knew I would be going to hell, AS he was giving me life....right? so therefoe he created me TO send to hell...

unless god doesnt know everything....?


anyway...I'm not here to try and convince you not to believe, and you certainly cant give me a valid reason TO believe....so you dont have to answer these questions if you dont want to...it is pretty much pointless discussion anyway :o) till science comes up with an answer anyway...

thanks for participating in the discussion!




I can understand why you think that, it does seem odd without a further understanding of the Bible, God, and Jesus. Although the free will is not a "pat" answer it may seem insignificant until you think about the fact that God wants you to turn to him. You don't know the future, and you may be adamant in your beliefs now, but who knows what the future may hold! Someone may come into your life one day and completely re-arrange your belief system.

God knew that humans where foul able, we were not and never will be without sin. That is why Christ died for us. God wanted to wipe out the human race twice. The first time with the flood. He saved mankind because of Noah! Noah was not perfect, but he relied on God, he walked with God. So he and his family were saved. You probably know the story, but really think about from a believers point of view that God does exist and it actually happened. The second time was when Jesus came.

Anyway God again wanted to wipe out humanity as it had gotten so bad, but he made a promise to Noah that he wouldn't. But God wanted us to love him and to have relationship with us so he sent his son. When Jesus died on the cross the Bible tells us that the veil in, I believe Herod's temple was torn from top to bottom. The veil covered what was referred to as "The Most Holy Place". Priests had to undergo hours of cleansing rituals just to enter this place because of sin. When the veil was torn it symbolized that through Jesus Christ we have an open door and open dialect with God again. I emphasized again because in the garden with Adam and Eve God walked and talked with them daily. As soon as they sinned he could no longer do that as God will not be around sin. Make sense?

So my point is, no man is lost. You can turn to Christ, ask him to forgive you and repent and your name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life and can never be removed. I am not saying you are bad, but if you have ever lied, or ever stolen than you are as guilty as any sinner and need to ask for forgiveness. You don't have to be perfect, God knows we are not, but He gave you an opportunity to be forgiven you just need to reach out and take it.

To get back to the original point though, you had said "unless god doesn't know everything....?". He does, we don't. You don't know if you will be an Atheist for the rest of your life. And if you do decide to turn your life towards Him then there is no argument, right? If you don't then you made the choice, he didn't make you do it. The Bible says that he hopes you do though. I may come across as cook here, but if nothing else you need to know that I took the time and effort to write this because of how strongly I feel about this and you can at least respect a man that stands up for what he believes, right?
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/30/07 11:35 PM

Originally Posted By: smgardner
Originally Posted By: Secret_Agent
I know what I am and you all know what you are. Why does anyone feel the need to convince everyone that their way is the only way? I have spent the last 14 years in a very nice relationship with my husband and we have vastly different beliefs. Yet somehow we have managed. I don't try and change him to mine and he doesn't try and change me to his and we live with the other person! If we don't feel the need to change someone we love and live with why do you (whoever cares to answer) feels the need to change someone you have never even meet?


My wife and I are very much in love and very best friends. We have entirely different beliefs and respect each other and our right to those beliefs...it has never once been an issue.


Has it ever caused an argument, a fight, hurt feelings one way or the other? Do you believe, the atheists in the house, that your significant other doesn't hope and pray that you do change? Just curious. My wife and I have a different type of inequality between us. Although we are both Christian she is much more knowledgeable on certain aspect and I am more reliant on plain old faith in others. So, maybe I can't relate 100%, but even believing the same things has caused issues.
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/30/07 11:52 PM

Sure he prays for me but that doesn't cause an argument. I only know because he tells me. He doesn't sit me down and pray over me. I have an alter set-up and he has his Bible. The only time we had a problem was when his uncle who happens to be a PhD graduate from Bob Jones, who is now a teacher at a Baptist school, sent a local pastor to visit with us to help me see the error of my ways. I handled it like a diplomat. My Christian mother told me that. She said I exhibited great decorum. So what was the problem? My husband was ticked at his uncle and was sorry I had to go through it. So I would say he is very respectful of me as I am him. My mother even let me say a Buddhist prayer at my grandmother's funeral even though she knew it might not be well received from some of the others. I also had my husband's full support. I support him completely in all matters of his religion as he does mine.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/31/07 12:09 AM

Wow, Secret Agent, you have an awesome relationship! Thanks for sharing that.

Prodigy: What about poor Job? (Just thought of Job because you said God saved Noah . . .)

Perky: I think you're right about the Calvinist theory of God choosing you or not, but I'm not sure how this relates to the argument about free will. I am exhausted. I can't think straight. Maybe someone else will chime in.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/31/07 12:26 AM

LOL, poor Ashley...BJU people are to Christianity as Al Queda is to Muslims.
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/31/07 12:41 AM

Tell me about it Perky! I failed to mention that he has two uncles from BJU! He grandfather even wrote one of those tracts. Yet him from that background or maybe because of it loves me and my Buddhist ways.
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/31/07 02:21 AM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
Wow, Secret Agent, you have an awesome relationship! Thanks for sharing that.

Prodigy: What about poor Job? (Just thought of Job because you said God saved Noah . . .)

Perky: I think you're right about the Calvinist theory of God choosing you or not, but I'm not sure how this relates to the argument about free will. I am exhausted. I can't think straight. Maybe someone else will chime in.


Don't really understand the Job reference, but another little known fact, It's midnight so I forget exactly how you figure it out, but Methuselah actually dies in or dies in the year of the flood. It has to do with the number of years he lived and some other stuff... can't think right now. I just finished my 12th episode of Heroes in two days. Ok, sleepy time now.
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/31/07 02:37 AM

Originally Posted By: Cool Cat


[[i]2) When you get in informal "debates" concerning religion (in light of the fact that you studied world religions at the graduate level) do you find yourself or the other party resorting to using the same dialog or "scripts"?i]


Originally Posted By: changeagent


CoolCat: I hate scripts, so therefore do not use them.



You're kidding,right?

I know you better than yourself. I would be willing to bet your "soul" that you use the same phrases or same "talking points" when debating the existence of God or world religions.

If you despise "scripts" like you say you do, you will never be in the top 5% of real estate agents. That's OK, when you fail as a REALTOR, you can always fall back on your vast knowledge and wisdom on world religions. After all you studied the subject on a graduate level. That will take you further in life than real estate ever will, maybe not the afterlife.

Talk about priorities!
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/31/07 10:19 AM

Wow, you've got some venom, CoolCat . . . not so "cool" are you?

So you're saying that I will FAIL as a Reatlor because I don't use scripts . . . ? And it must really irk you that I said I studied world religions in graduate school because you keep mentioning it over and over.

Let's see, you are threatening me that if I don't wake up and use scripts, I will fail. Then you sarcastically say I have MY priorities screwed up because of my education. Maybe you are jealous because I can actually discuss subjects other than real estate and that I can do it without relying on canned scripts.

I just think it is bizarre that you promote scripts to such a degree.

You'd better go practice! Don't waste time here talking to people when you could be talking to yourself in a mirror!

It would be hysterical if after death, God came to you and demanded to know why you wasted your life rehearsing fake and insincere words in order to make filthy lucre. (From what you have written you are far more interested in hooking clients than taking care of their real estate needs. What do you do when a deal falls apart and you don't have the proper script to follow?) I can see it all now . . . you collapsing in your office, weeping and praying to Mike Ferry . . . Or Maybe you are one of the scipts gurus!
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/31/07 06:08 PM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
Wow, you've got some venom, CoolCat . . . not so "cool" are you?

So you're saying that I will FAIL as a Reatlor because I don't use scripts . . . ? And it must really irk you that I said I studied world religions in graduate school because you keep mentioning it over and over.

Let's see, you are threatening me that if I don't wake up and use scripts, I will fail. Then you sarcastically say I have MY priorities screwed up because of my education. Maybe you are jealous because I can actually discuss subjects other than real estate and that I can do it without relying on canned scripts.

I just think it is bizarre that you promote scripts to such a degree.

You'd better go practice! Don't waste time here talking to people when you could be talking to yourself in a mirror!

It would be hysterical if after death, God came to you and demanded to know why you wasted your life rehearsing fake and insincere words in order to make filthy lucre. (From what you have written you are far more interested in hooking clients than taking care of their real estate needs. What do you do when a deal falls apart and you don't have the proper script to follow?) I can see it all now . . . you collapsing in your office, weeping and praying to Mike Ferry . . . Or Maybe you are one of the scipts gurus!


Count that as one victory to me! She capitalized God, yes!! And I quoted it so you can't go back and change it now! Seriously though, what was the Job reference pointed to?
Posted by: MDHomes2Go

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/31/07 06:36 PM

"God wanted to wipe out the human race twice. The first time with the flood. He saved mankind because of Noah! ....Anyway God again wanted to wipe out humanity as it had gotten so bad, but he made a promise to Noah that he wouldn't. But God wanted us to love him and to have relationship with us so he sent his son."

I am not sure what I believe, but is that what God is like?
..Worship me or i'll kick your a$$!!
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/31/07 06:59 PM

Originally Posted By: MDHomes2Go
"God wanted to wipe out the human race twice. The first time with the flood. He saved mankind because of Noah! ....Anyway God again wanted to wipe out humanity as it had gotten so bad, but he made a promise to Noah that he wouldn't. But God wanted us to love him and to have relationship with us so he sent his son."

I am not sure what I believe, but is that what God is like?
..Worship me or i'll kick your a$$!!


Genesis Chapter 6 verse 13
So God said to Noah, "I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth.

We were fighting, murdering, and everything else so not because we didn't all worship him, but we were doing terrible things.
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/31/07 09:53 PM

changeagent, I have no idea if you are already a successful Realtor or will end up percentage wise one of the agents that will ultimately fail.

I am not even for sure my wife and I are going to make it in real estate. I am in my fourth year, her third, and although we are doing well now we have struggled. This is a rough business. There are so many things I know I should be doing that I do not do in the course of the day. (This forum, although informative is very time consuming and addictive.)

I will say this, our debate started when you posed the question Deconstructing a Successful Agent and you refused to accept the power of scripts. I am not talking about canned scripts: Ferry's, Buffini's, or one of the script gurus, but your own dialog that you perfect over time with error. Honestly, I could not care less if you use them. I did not want some new agent to think scripts are useless. They are not, if truly committed to memory and delivered properly. If you look at the top 5% they all utilize scripts in one way or the other.

I'm done with that subject, I have beat this dead horse enough.

Originally Posted By: changeagent

So you're saying that I will FAIL as a Realtor because I don't use scripts . . . ? And it must really irk you that I said I studied world religions in graduate school because you keep mentioning it over and over.

Let's see, you are threatening me that if I don't wake up and use scripts, I will fail. Then you sarcastically say I have MY priorities screwed up because of my education. Maybe you are jealous because I can actually discuss subjects other than real estate and that I can do it without relying on canned scripts.


Changeagent, You're kidding, right?

I kept pushing your buttons because you were trying to push Perky, in a corner on her personal religious beliefs and berating her because she would not answer your questions.

I can talk about religion, politics, baseball, science, the economy, history, sex, and women all you want. This is not the place. I was being sarcastic when I quoted the fact that you went to graduate school and studied world religions. Unless you were studying to be a teacher or preacher, I do not see any value other than getting into religious debates on a real estate forum with REALTORS utilizing the talking points or "scripts" if you will, and trying to show off your vast superior knowledge on the subject.

Once again, I am wasting your time, all the readers, and more importantly my time debating this mindless garbage.

Good Luck to you in the future.

I am going to finish reading Realty Blogging that Perky suggested and try and be more proactive in my Real Estate business.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/01/07 12:08 AM

Okay, CoolCat:

Discussing the "big questions" in life is "mindless garbage," but reciting scripts is oh-so-important. Gotcha!

And who are you, Perky's body guard? I think she can take care of herself!

Get back to your mirror!
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/01/07 12:09 AM

Prodigy: You were talking about the horrible ways God tried to kill everyone but decided to save Noah and I wondered what you thought of what God did to poor Job! That was really mean-spirited.
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/01/07 01:23 PM

Job died a happy man! Yes terrible things happened to him, but it was not God that did it, it was Satan. It says that in the Bible. God allowed Job to be tested and Job passed with flying colors and everything he lost was given back to him 10 fold! How is that bad? We all go through trials and I wish that we got to walk out of them with 10 times as much as we had when we went in. Now you are resentful for Job, but do you think Job is resentful?

Now, in reference to your terrible ways God was going to kill us. If you make a paper airplane, is it your right to crumple it up and throw it away to build another if the first doesn't fly? Why do you think that we're entitled to anything more than to further God's will? Because we are free thinkers? God put us here for a purpose, to love each other and love Him, not to be rich, not to have nice cars, not even to have a roof over our heads. Those are blessing that we think God owes us and that we take for granted.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/01/07 02:03 PM

so we are just pawns to amuse god, at whim. i get it. that makes me feel better!

but seriously, how can you be comforted by that theory?

how do you reconcile god's less-than-godly traits? (i.e., vengefulness, jealousy, spite, etc.)? I think those traits were shared by many of the greek gods which you seem to think are ridiculous. what is the difference, pray tell?
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/01/07 04:34 PM

Point 1, yes, we were made for a specific purpose. Anything less and you are acting like a spoiled child.

I am comforted knowing that I am doing what I was made to do. God will bless me with what he wants, but I have no right to demand anything from Him.

God doesn't have less than godly traits, or else he wouldn't have them. Vengefulness, when your child does something wrong you teach him/her a lesson for their own good. God does not go around smiting at random. When you have two children and one punches the other do you want the other to punch back or let you as a parent handle it? You would bring vengeance down on the one that instigated it. It is a big word, but don't be afraid of it. Jealousy, you take this out of context. He is jealous in the respect that He does not want to share you and will not share you with anything. It is Him or the world, no compromise. Spite? Give me one example when God was showing this trait, as defined by "a malicious, usually petty, desire to harm, annoy, frustrate, or humiliate another person; bitter ill will; malice".
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/01/07 04:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Prodigy
God does not go around smiting at random. When you have two children and one punches the other do you want the other to punch back or let you as a parent handle it? You would bring vengeance down on the one that instigated it.

But I wouldn't hit or kill that child. There is a big difference. If I as a parent disciplined my children the way God (big G for you prodigy) does I would be in jail.
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/01/07 08:38 PM

I can understand your point of view, but let me ask you, are your children in any position to question what you do as a punishment? I don't think so, so how can we judge God's punishments? By the way you say you wouldn't hit a child, so I assume you think spanking children is wrong? I appreciate the big "G" by the way.
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/01/07 11:19 PM

Yes, I think spanking is wrong. Now I understand the whole "spare the rod spoil the child" thought but I don't agree. I can say there isn't one person who hasn't met or knows my daughter (age 11) that could say anything bad about her or her behavior. I have far better ways to modify behavior that isn't physical or emotionally damaging. I have guided her gently and by example into the person she is. I have no doubts that she will continue on this path and become an adult who I can let out into the world and know that I have done good.
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/02/07 02:57 AM

Originally Posted By: Secret_Agent
Yes, I think spanking is wrong. Now I understand the whole "spare the rod spoil the child" thought but I don't agree. I can say there isn't one person who hasn't met or knows my daughter (age 11) that could say anything bad about her or her behavior. I have far better ways to modify behavior that isn't physical or emotionally damaging. I have guided her gently and by example into the person she is. I have no doubts that she will continue on this path and become an adult who I can let out into the world and know that I have done good.


Good luck with that. I am 21 years old and I have watched my peers grow up with parents that didn't believe in spanking or in alternative discipline. I'm not saying that not spanking is bad, all I can vouch for is the difference between me and my friends growing up.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/02/07 01:19 PM

Prodigy asked: "Give me one example when God was showing this trait, as defined by "a malicious, usually petty, desire to harm, annoy, frustrate, or humiliate another person; bitter ill will; malice."

My answer is "Job." god tortured job and tortured his family, just to prove a point. that is sick and twisteds, period.

Also: the god you speak of is parental, rendering you childish. to me, it would just be a sad series of fairytales, if people did not actually hurt and kill others based on their beliefs in the stories.

do you realize that you learned a series of stories and that you are simply repeating the stories?

what if you had learned another set of stories? you would have just as easily believed those.
Posted by: Ben34105

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/02/07 01:28 PM

Wow. This thread has taken an unexpected turn. However no one is complaining so I'll let it be.
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/02/07 02:46 PM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
Prodigy asked: "Give me one example when God was showing this trait, as defined by "a malicious, usually petty, desire to harm, annoy, frustrate, or humiliate another person; bitter ill will; malice."

My answer is "Job." god tortured job and tortured his family, just to prove a point. that is sick and twisteds, period.

Also: the god you speak of is parental, rendering you childish. to me, it would just be a sad series of fairytales, if people did not actually hurt and kill others based on their beliefs in the stories.

do you realize that you learned a series of stories and that you are simply repeating the stories?

what if you had learned another set of stories? you would have just as easily believed those.


Either read my last post on Job or the Bible and you will see that God did not do anything to Job. Satan did those things to him, and it is not your battle, it is Job's. Let him be mad at God if he wants, you don't need to waste emotion on that.
You story implication is meaningless, most of our history is stories as your Christopher Columbus reference pointed out. And no, I wouldn't have believed just as easily, I am not a fool and I do my research and learn from others just like I am trying to do now.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/02/07 05:03 PM

as i understand it, god put job through all of those "trials," including killing his wife and children (not sure how you would possibly justify that) as a way to test him . . .

there are questions related to omnipotence also in this story.

anyway, the story bothers many people . . . google "biblical story of job" and do some reading, if the spirit moves you (or not). good day.
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/02/07 05:45 PM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
as i understand it, god put job through all of those "trials," including killing his wife and children (not sure how you would possibly justify that) as a way to test him . . .

there are questions related to omnipotence also in this story.

anyway, the story bothers many people . . . google "biblical story of job" and do some reading, if the spirit moves you (or not). good day.


Well, your understanding is incorrect. You are obviously basing your beliefs on second hand knowledge. Come on Changeagent, crack open the Bible and read for yourself. BTW, what are your questions regarding the omnipotence aspect?
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/02/07 06:31 PM

god "allowed" satan to toy with job:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Job

Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/02/07 07:19 PM

OK according to my husband who has read the Bible more thoroughly then I have:
"God allowed Satan to torture Job"
Prodigy would that be an accurate reflect your interpretation?
I will refrain from making my own personal comment at this point. Later I might.

From Wikipedia
"God permits Satan to put the virtue of Job to the test..."

Let's put this in modern thoughts. If I hire someone to kill or harm another person I am just as guilty. I won't even get into what would happen to my Karma if I did this to another individual. Let's just say I don't like the idea of being a pawn in God's game of Chess against Satan. OK I HAD to add my 2 cents.
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/02/07 09:50 PM

Change, you will find your answer if you read the book of Job. The story is all about exactly what we are discussing and I am not even going to attempt to put it better than God did. Seriously, read the book, even from a skeptic point of view. The last place you should be getting your biblical knowledge is from Wikipedia, why don't you try www.biblegateway.com and look up the story of Job, it is long, but until you read you can't argue it.

Secret, It says in the story that God was proud of Job, but Satan said that the only reason Job had not cursed God was because God had "coddled" him. God did not allow Satan to torture Job anymore than Satan's ability to torture anyone else on Earth, He just removed the "hedge" that surrounded Job. Satan took particular interest in Job because God was pleased with him. As far as a pawn in the game, you really don't have a choice. Whether you believe or you don't you take a side.

Some believe this story to be only a parable, and as you read it you can probably see why. Whether you consider it a parable or take it literally there is a powerful lesson to be learned here. I think it can be summarized, probably poorly, as;
Job 11:7 "Can you fathom the mysteries of God?
Can you probe the limits of the Almighty?"
We as humans could not even begin to understand how God works or what His plan is. You judge from a human perspective, that is likened to looking at a painting through a microscope. You can only judge as far as your perception will allow. I know that coming to terms with how small we as humans really are is difficult, but it is a viewpoint many of us need to adopt.
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/02/07 10:11 PM

Change, Have you read the Bible? If so how extensively? Cover to cover, here and there, etc. I am not asking condescendingly or to corner you in an argument, but that I might have an insight into how thoroughly I should be explaining certain aspects. You studied on a graduate level so obviously you have knowledge in this arena, but the class was probably not geared specifically toward Christianity so I assume the Bible was not on the assigned reading list.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/02/07 10:56 PM

I read the New Testament thirty-plus years ago. I did not read all of the Old Testament. I have not studied Christianity extensively, you are correct. My graduate studies allowed me to develop a global perspective and to learn about religion from cultural perspectives.

I guess I would just ask you how you can read stories, such as the one about Job and still be a believer. I don't understand why a person would suspend discernment and analysis of content.

When someone noted that men wrote the Bible, you did not respond to that point.

You didn't say why you thought The Crusades were appropriate.

You didn't acknowledge that the Catholic church was the first Christian church.

You didn't talk about the denigration of women.

You didn't mention that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all related.

What do you think of the recent tomb discovery?

Do you think Heaven and Hell are actual places?

Do you think Jesus has appeared on other planets, or only ours?

Why would you think that such a young religion would be the only true religion?

Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/02/07 11:59 PM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
I read the New Testament thirty-plus years ago. I did not read all of the Old Testament. I have not studied Christianity extensively, you are correct. My graduate studies allowed me to develop a global perspective and to learn about religion from cultural perspectives.

I guess I would just ask you how you can read stories, such as the one about Job and still be a believer. I don't understand why a person would suspend discernment and analysis of content.

Job is a great story, why would that change my perspective? Did you follow my advise and read it from the Bible? Debating religion based on second hand knowledge is like practicing nuclear physics with second hand knowledge, both pretty explosive topics. Please, set aside a half hour and read the story of Job. The whole story, it gets pretty bleak at the halfway point but ends strongly.

When someone noted that men wrote the Bible, you did not respond to that point.

The Bible was written by men, no doubt about that. I did respond to it though, Navarac said that it was written with a specific purpose in mind. I disagreed and pointed out that the Bible is a compilation of different books written at different times. The common argument is that man wrote the Bible with their own motives and intentions, but if that were true why is God unhappy with us, why did God want to wipe us out? If I was writing a book that I wanted the majority of believe in then it would relate to the vast majority. In marketing they tell you to relate to the lowest common denominator and the Bible just doesn't fit in that mold.

You didn't say why you thought The Crusades were appropriate.

I did actually, I said that they did more harm than good in my opinion. I also said that killing in the name of God was wrong.

You didn't acknowledge that the Catholic church was the first Christian church.

I obviously had some misunderstandings about Catholicism and apologized to Paul. I do know that Catholicism predates modern Christianity as a "sect" and I use that term lightly. I do however find particular interest in Martin Luther and the apparent corruption in the church.

You didn't talk about the denigration of women.

Again, I did talk about this point. Women were not discriminated against in the Bible. Women's place in the biblical times societal hierarchy was very low, but despite that fact women still had to books dedicated to prominant women and many references to women and their triumphs/falters throughout the Bible.

You didn't mention that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all related.

Well, in all fairness it was never brought up. Yes they are all similar, they differ primarily in who the Messiah is. Through that one pinnacle difference, they differ vastly in beliefs and application. Islam is kind of a funny religion, the Islamic religion finds roots in the story of Abraham and Hagar. Read up on it and you will see that Abraham had a child with Hagar because he didn't trust God. Long story short, Hagar and her son Ishmael are sent away and that is where Islam is "born". Anyway, Islam believes that Jesus was a prophet, but prophets don't lie. Jesus says that he is the son of God, but for some reason they don't believe that.

What do you think of the recent tomb discovery?

It is not the tomb of Jesus Christ, he rose again on the third day. Besides, do a little research and you will see that Jesus was like todays John, very common. I have not looked into this as much as I probably should, but if you like I will.

Do you think Heaven and Hell are actual places?

The Bible references actual places so yes.

Do you think Jesus has appeared on other planets, or only ours?

I don't know if you are being serious, but no I think this planet was Jesus' only stop.

Why would you think that such a young religion would be the only true religion?

In my book, literally, Christianity started when humanity started. More accurately though, Judaism started at creation.



Scroll through the quote for the answers. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk with me about this. Most have fallen off, but you actually seem to want to know more or are just trying to de-convert me. Either way I am enjoying the conversation.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/03/07 12:38 AM

I don't have the energy to debate further tonight, but do enjoy reading people's serious reasoning of ideas. That actually is a key motive of continuing this conversation.

I am interested in ideas, I am particularly interested in people's beliefs and how they developed their beliefs and if they have consciousness around the beliefs they have taken on.

I am also interested in all religions because I am interested in cultural issues - how people cope, what they value, what they pay homage to, how they live - their principles related to their actual lives (for instance, how can you be against murder, but for war . . . ).

Most people that I run into are very shallow - just think about making money, watching TV, and basically coping with problems or trying to get a little relief from the grind or the rat race.

I think it is interesting to delve more deeply into subjects - to discover my own ideas and learn about other people's ideas.

I like the way you discuss this issue, because even though it is dear to you and important to you and you might see my comments as irreverent, you are willing to have discourse about it and you have a kind of goodwill in explaining your points-of-view. I have to confess that I see fundamental Christianity as not that evolved, and conversely, as controling and oppressive. I know that many people take great comfort in religion and I don't have a problem with that, per se, but the comfort seems to circumvent questioning and thought and that bugs me.

The fact that you can swallow it whole is just amazing to me, but must say I tried very hard, myself, to believe at a few points in time and you are relatively young so your thinking may evolve (or not).

I find the entire question of faith fascinating. I wish I could believe in a simple system - it sure would make life easier - but I can't - there are just too many moral, ethical, and logistical problems.

You didn't say why you thought the story you believe in is more credible than say Greek Mythology.

And if Jesus has only appeared on our planet, what about all of the other planets and galexies?

Also, if God is Almighty, why didn't HE write his own Bible and bring it to the Earth through some form of miracle?

Speaking of miracles, why haven't there been any in modern days?

And what about all of those hundreds of millions of people who came before Jesus time and all of the people who never heard of Jesus, including all of the good people, babies and infirm?
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/03/07 05:23 AM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
I don't have the energy to debate further tonight, but do enjoy reading people's serious reasoning of ideas. That actually is a key motive of continuing this conversation.

I am interested in ideas, I am particularly interested in people's beliefs and how they developed their beliefs and if they have consciousness around the beliefs they have taken on.

I am also interested in all religions because I am interested in cultural issues - how people cope, what they value, what they pay homage to, how they live - their principles related to their actual lives (for instance, how can you be against murder, but for war . . . ).

Most people that I run into are very shallow - just think about making money, watching TV, and basically coping with problems or trying to get a little relief from the grind or the rat race.

I think it is interesting to delve more deeply into subjects - to discover my own ideas and learn about other people's ideas.

I like the way you discuss this issue, because even though it is dear to you and important to you and you might see my comments as irreverent, you are willing to have discourse about it and you have a kind of goodwill in explaining your points-of-view. I have to confess that I see fundamental Christianity as not that evolved, and conversely, as controling and oppressive. I know that many people take great comfort in religion and I don't have a problem with that, per se, but the comfort seems to circumvent questioning and thought and that bugs me.

The fact that you can swallow it whole is just amazing to me, but must say I tried very hard, myself, to believe at a few points in time and you are relatively young so your thinking may evolve (or not).

I find the entire question of faith fascinating. I wish I could believe in a simple system - it sure would make life easier - but I can't - there are just too many moral, ethical, and logistical problems.

You didn't say why you thought the story you believe in is more credible than say Greek Mythology.

And if Jesus has only appeared on our planet, what about all of the other planets and galexies?

Also, if God is Almighty, why didn't HE write his own Bible and bring it to the Earth through some form of miracle?

Speaking of miracles, why haven't there been any in modern days?

And what about all of those hundreds of millions of people who came before Jesus time and all of the people who never heard of Jesus, including all of the good people, babies and infirm?


Christianity vs. Greek Mythology
I don't know a lot about Greek mythology apart from what I learned in high school. It sounds like a bad cartoon though. All of the Greek deities portrayed very human characteristics and personalities. None where righteous and you want to talk about malicious and vindictive games, the Greeks take the cake. In addition to that none of the Greek deities showed compassion for us.

Um, I guess you were being serious. I don't believe in aliens, until I see some factual evidence I don't think they exist so there would be no need for Jesus to visit other planets. Unless he wanted to do some sight seeing. A better question would be did Jesus visit the Americas. That I don't know, but the Mormons think he did. I don't see why He wouldn't, but I don't know if he did. Some people also believe that Jesus visited India. That is a very good question, and again I don't know. I do find it fascinating however that the "book/scroll" that referenced Jesus' visit to India refers to Him as "Esi" or "Lord". They say that He visited India from the age of 13-30. They even say that He taught India's wise men, but this is all second hand knowledge and I really shouldn't even be discussing it.

Good question, I guess God understood the power of social proof. The real estate gurus all tell us to put testimonials on everything.

The miracle thing is interesting. I personally believe that miracles still happen, but I seem to be in the minority. Some believe that God gave his son as a last good will gesture to mankind. I don't believe that, I think Jesus' death opened up a direct relationship with God and He interacts in our life.

I answered this one earlier too, I don't know. The Bible doesn't give specific account for those people. I will ask when I see Him though. I referenced Purgatory earlier, maybe that makes sense. I just can't find the Purgatory reference in my Bible. And again Martin Luther makes some pretty interesting points on Purgatory.

I have answered a lot of your questions Change, please do me a favor and read the book of Job. If you do nothing else for me read that book. There will be a test grin
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/03/07 12:24 PM

Purgatory is a Catholic notion. I believe the Protestant religions ommitted it. Since you aren't Catholic, I don't think you can effectively use it in your debates.

Why would there even need to be other planets?

So I take it you believe in a personal God who has time for all Christians (HE is going to talk to you when you "pass over" to Heaven, I assume).

WHERE are Heaven and Hell located, per your beliefs?

As far as Jesus visiting India, etc., that is very interesting . . .

I was thinking from my perspective, if a person educates themselves and studies many of the masters and picks one to follow, that seems reasonable. In other words, if you have studied world religions and resonate with the teachings of Jesus, that seems like an informed choice. I don't have a problems with the teachings of various masters (as much as I know about them, anyway, and I am not claiming to be any expert).

The issue I have has to do with people blindly accepting beliefs without examining the belief, where it came from, and why they believe it.

Also, you didn't comment on why it is against the commandments to kill, however lots of Christions believe in war. Please discuss this point at your next opportunity, and I will get on with reading the Book of Job (but I can't promise when). I will put it on my "list of things to do. . . "

Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/03/07 03:21 PM

Well, although purgatory is a Catholic notion, I was only offering that as a maybe. I don't know for sure.

I don't know why God would make the universe, probably for the same reason He made the hippo, it's fun to look at.

I do believe that God takes a personal interest in everyone. I believe that each of us will stand before Him and answer for the things we did in life.

I don't know where Heaven and Hell are, I would only be able to speculate somewhere in the Earth and somewhere in the sky.

The sixth commandment is "You shall not murder", not kill. You are educated so I assume you can reason between murder and killing. We kill in war because we are defending ourselves or somebody else. I don't consider that murder, unless you walk in to a village and kill the townspeople for no reason. Killing innocence is murder, killing a soldier is different.

Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/03/07 08:16 PM

The commandment I learned is: "Thou shalt not kill." Please provide your source.

In addition, please comment on the appropriateness of an eternity of hellfire and damnation for most crimes. I can't see that the punishment would ever be appropriate. And do comment on the compassionate god that would mete out such punishment.
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/04/07 11:58 AM

You learned this probably because two of the three King James versions has "thou shalt not kill". Out of the 19 different English translations of the Bible, 19 is all I could find, only 5 have "kill", the rest have "murder".

That is the beautiful thing Change, you don't have to have an eternity of hellfire and damnation for breaking the rules set forth by God. Even in ancient times, the Jews would cleanse themselves and atone for their sin by performing rituals like animal sacrifice and water baptism. God knows that we cannot be righteous, and that is why He sent his son to die for us. Believing Jesus is the son of God, that he died for our sins, and that he rose again on the third day is the key to salvation. In addition to that we should repent from our sin, but the Bible doesn't say that this is required. It does say that God will know our heart and that many will call His name, but not all will enter the kingdom. God is compassionate and that is why He sent His son to die for you and me. God does not want anyone to fall into sin, but there has to be drastic consequences if we do, or why wouldn't we? I am not saying that if you take away the lake of fire we would all go running into the arms of sin, but if the fear of eternal torment is enough to get you at least leaning toward God, learning and understanding the Bible will help you love God.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/04/07 11:27 PM

I have to take a break from this subject. I have lost interest in debating it. I think we are too far apart in our thinking to have anything positive come out of this discussion.

Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/04/07 11:53 PM

Well, isn't that the point of debate? To win one or the other over to another's way of thinking? I think you are wrong about something positive coming from this. I hope that you have learned something from my arguments, as I certainly have from your's. I am sorry to hear that you are no longer interested in debating, are you still going to read Job? I sure hope so. Let me know if you ever have another question that I can answer, or attempt to. Thanks for the discussion Change.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 01:09 PM

Sorry - I just lost energy to debate further. You were very polite and articulate and I appreciate that.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 06:55 PM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
I have to take a break from this subject. I have lost interest in debating it. I think we are too far apart in our thinking to have anything positive come out of this discussion.



Gee, I was tellin' ya that ages ago - LOL. I have BTDT so many times that it is just so unappealing to me to debate subjects where there is no point to continue. Yet you got snarky with me because I did what you are doing now. ROFL
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 07:26 PM

Wow, you're easily amused (ROFL above). For the record, I didn't get "snarky" - I was just wondering why you wouldn't respond at one point.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 07:32 PM

I did respond, by saying I wasn't interested in debating. smile

Oh, do you mean since I left the thread, when the Pirate talk stopped? Today is the first I came back, and wanted to know if you guyes figured out what the Urum and Thummim was or if you pinpointed exactly who the "Sons of God" were who liked the daughters of men and birthed a race of giants and heroes... or actually, I expected to see that someone found Noah's Ark.

But alas, you just gave up.

Oh well. wink
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 07:55 PM

Don't know what you are talking about, but it sounds like you are enjoying yourself!
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 08:12 PM

No, not particularly. I'm actually waiting for the coffee to brew so I can get blogging.
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 09:45 PM

Does the coffee not interfere with your sleep?
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 10:03 PM

Coffee keeps me perky. har har....punny me!

I have been drinking coffee at bedtime since I was a kid. My parents never went to bed without a cup of coffee. Neither do I. while I didn't take up their habit of chain smoking, I did take up the coffee habit.

Actually, I think I drink more than they ever did. ha ha
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 11:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Perky_REALTOR
Coffee keeps me perky.


Perky,

Is there religious content in the Buffini video's smile
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 11:14 PM

Well, he did call for a couple of Amens, and he did an awesome imitation of an African American preacher...but that was about stepping outside of...get this...your COMFORT ZONE and discovering that you have the capability of expanding what you're comfortable with by just...stepping outside.

Hmm. Food for thought... Hey, was that a wink? LOL
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 11:23 PM

Sorry, It was a typo. ; ) instead of : ) smile
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 11:24 PM

Did you like the bit about million dollar producer on the card?
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 11:26 PM

Geez Perky stop winking and get blogging! Oh wait your not winking your being winked at. OK stop being winked at and get blogging!
Posted by: Prodigy

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 11:28 PM

Got to love this place...
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 11:29 PM

Secret Agent,

Go back and look at my post.
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 11:30 PM

Originally Posted By: Prodigy
Got to love this place...

Ain't that the truth!
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 11:31 PM

Perky,

Did you like Buffini?
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 11:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Cool Cat
Secret Agent,

Go back and look at my post.

Please don't make me. I have been in bed all day with a migraine. I have just been able to sit up for the last hour or so. I am only here because I can't think enough to write an interesting well thought out blog. Don't make me think!
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 11:33 PM

Just do it!
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 11:34 PM

<whimper> The edited for not flirting part?
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 11:38 PM

whimper?
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 11:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Cool Cat
whimper?

That was the sound my head made when having to think about what post you meant me to go back and look at.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 11:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Cool Cat
Did you like the bit about million dollar producer on the card?


actually I loved his story about his mother.

I only listened to the first one on the list. The one you suggested wouldn't load for a minute.

what I really liked was the peanut butter and jelly illustration. re: working on the sweet part first and giving it a higher priority than the crusty dry part.
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 11:45 PM

Were you afraid it was my chess analogy or one of my other long winded rants?
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 11:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Perky_REALTOR

actually I loved his story about his mother.


The plane story?
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 11:48 PM

yes, I liked him very much. I notice that sometimes his accent is stronger than others.

I agree about the coming to the office to work or to play...if you're not coming to actually work, then just take the day off instead, it will be more productive for you than coming to the office dressed in sweats just to "reorganize" or something.

I try to get to the office early on my days in - I do get more done.

I'm also motivated to make some lists. though I'm great at making lists, and even better at ditching 'em. har har
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 11:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Cool Cat
Originally Posted By: Perky_REALTOR

actually I loved his story about his mother.


The plane story?


yes. that was a riot. though I can not, for the life of me, imagine ever even WANTING a house with 11 bathrooms. Oy!!!
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 11:49 PM

You are a gold personality!
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 11:52 PM

NO CHESS dang I am having to seriously re-think my thought on scripts.
OK what video clips are you guys talking about? I have seen nothing about PB/J, planes, or African preachers!
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/05/07 11:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Cool Cat
You are a gold personality!


is that on one of the clips too? did I miss that? LOL I have to listen again.

shhhh! secret agent, it's secret.;) (I can wink at her)
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 12:01 AM

It is so secretive even the agent of all secrets doesn't know it. Perky can wink at me and not even have to claim it's a typo. Why are we not writing a blog?
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 12:04 AM

I am too tired to write a blog. I had a busy day and then had a late night stalker phone call to attend to, and now, I'm just pooped. i can not think coherently enough to write a blog, though last night i did post some photos.

Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 12:04 AM

Perky is actually a split personality. She is also orange.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 12:07 AM

confused

actually what i want to see is a lot of GREEN
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 12:12 AM

No, I'm Green and Orange. You are like my wife, Gold and Orange
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 12:15 AM

Well you could send your stalker to the bottom of the lake with the stalker widget.
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 12:16 AM

I wanna be a color! I get left out of all the fun.
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 12:20 AM

Secret Agent, You have a predominant orange personality. I'm not sure if you are green, blue or gold as well. I'll send the gold profile and write up the orange etc.
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 12:21 AM

Originally Posted By: Perky_REALTOR
I try to get to the office early on my days in - I do get more done.

I'm also motivated to make some lists. though I'm great at making lists, and even better at ditching 'em. har har


The following is stolen from Richard Robbins business advance workbook

Gold: (43% of the general population)
Loyal, dependable, prepared, thorough, sensible, punctual, faithful, stable, organized, caring, concerned, concrete.

I need to follow rules and respect authority.
I have a strong sense of what is right and wrong in life.
I need to be useful and belong.
I value home, family and tradition.
I am a natural preserver, a parent, and a helper.
At work, I provide stability and can maintain organization. My ability to handle details and work hard allow me to be the backbone of many organizations. I believe that work comes before play, even if I must work overtime to complete the job.

Style Stabilizer/traditionalist
Goal Belonging
Biggest stressor Disorder, ambiguity

Gold Characteristics;
loyal
duty
super dependable
resists change
preserves tradition
precise
don't fix what isn't broken
procedures
decisive
stability
"should" and "should not'
social responsibility
structure
orderly
authority
dependent

Things that create stress for Gold;
too many questions directed at them
too many things going on at the same time
ambiguous answers
disorganization
changing details
people who do not follow through
irresponsibility of others
incomplete tasks
waste
non conformity
a haphazard attitude
lack of structure
lack of direction
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 12:22 AM

okay, what do the colors mean. or do I have to report back after I discover it. har har.

and by the way, I was using your chess analogy way of thinking the other day - I honestly can't remember what I was doing, but I do remember thinking "this is like cool cat said...make a move intended to make someone else react a certain way..." but shoot, it was so brilliant, I forgot what it was. ha ha

Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 12:23 AM

oh. alright so what is orange?
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 12:24 AM

oh, sorry, I'll wait. tee hee. is being impatient gold, oragne, or aquamarinE?
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 12:26 AM

I don't see enough of me in Gold to rate, a few things but not overall...so I am waiting to see me in Orange. Then I can figure out what my other color is.
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 12:27 AM

Im with Perky, impatient, get a move on it.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 12:31 AM

i'm disorganized, that must be where the orange comes in ha ha

i like authority when i'm the authority! lol
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 12:31 AM

hey, is this thread actually sorta about buffini again? kind of?

what a strange name for an Irish guy.
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 12:32 AM

I can only type so fast. 20 words a minute (WITHOUT MISTAKES)
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 12:35 AM

OK we will let Cool Cat type (slowly) don't want to get messed up and confuse us all with a typo!
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 12:45 AM

The following is stolen from Richard Robbins business advance workbook

Orange (33% of the general population)

Witty, charming, spontaneous, impulsive, generous, impactful, optimistic, eager bold, physical, immediate.

I act on a moments notice
I consider life as a game hear and now.
I need fun, variety, stimulation and excitement.

At work, I am bored and restless with jobs that are routine and structured. I am satisfied with careers that allow me independence and freedom, while utilizing my physical coordination and my love of tools. I view any kind of tool as an extension of myself. I am a natural performer.

Style: Trouble shooter/negotiator
Goal: Action
Biggest stressor: Routine

Orange Characteristics:
free spirited fun-loving
good in crisis situations
when all else fails, read directions
impulsive
needs freedom and space
let me do something
flexible
focus on immediate most joyful
least represented in college
realistic
uninhibited
enjoys the moment
practicality
spontaneous
likes hands on experience
adaptable
seeks changes and variety

Things that create stress for orange:
requirements to read manuals
redundancy
deadlines
rules and regulations
being stuck at a desk
being non-negotiable
imposed structure
following "how to" directions
too much attention to product & not enough to performance/results
criticism
abstract concept
lack of fun at work or in school
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 12:59 AM

Originally Posted By: Perky_REALTOR
hey, is this thread actually sorta about buffini again? kind of?

what a strange name for an Irish guy.


When you say Buffini, please capitalize the B. Also the G in God, finally, capitalize RE/MAX not Re/Max!

Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:00 AM

Does anyone care about the Blue and Green personality types?
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:02 AM

you mean i can't say remax?

hee hee

sorry, i is lazy after 12.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:03 AM

I think I am more orange than gold!!!

thanks for typing that COOL/CAT.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:04 AM

Originally Posted By: Cool Cat
Does anyone care about the Blue and Green personality types?


well it certainly is INTER/ESTING. But I don't want to make you type it out. Your typing sounds like my husband's. slow but accurate.
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:10 AM

The following is stolen from Richard Robbins business advance workbook

Blue (12% of the general population)

Enthusiastic, sympathetic, personal, warm, communicative, compassionate, idealistic, spiritual, peaceful, flexible, imaginative.

I need to feel unique and authentic.
I look for meaning and significance in life.
I need to contribute, to encourage, to care.
I value integrity and unity in relationships.
I am a natural romantic, a poet, and a nurturer.

At work, I have a strong desire to influence others so that they may lead more significant lives. I often work in the arts, communications, education and in helping professions. I am adept at motivating and interacting with others.

Style: Catalyst (makes things happen)
Goal: Identify and finding meaning of life
Biggest stressor: Guilt

Blue Characteristics:
seduction
interpersonal skills
supportive of others
sympathetic
relationships
possibilities for people
interaction
co-operation
vivid imagination
mysterious
very sensitive to conflict
search for self
autonomy
needs encouragement & recognition
integrity

Things that create stress for blue:
outlets for individual expression
too much negative criticism
people talking behind their backs
planning 'the system" as a priority
completing paperwork as a priority
being constantly compared to others
too much conformity without discussing what is occurring
rejection
lack of social contact
clock-watching
conflict
insincerity
lying
broken promises
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:11 AM

Cool Cat you are so GOOD! You nailed me as an Orange from just my posts online.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:12 AM

shoot, I'm all that too. maybe i'm schitzophrenic.

THANK/YOU, COOL/CAT
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:14 AM

Perky you are a rainbow!
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:15 AM

Parts of the following were stolen from Richard Robbins business advance workbook

Originally Posted By: Cool Cat
Things that create stress for Realting:
Not being in charge
lack of independence
elaborate use of adjectives
incompetence
emotional displays
lack of opinions
inability to use or display
knowledge
small talk
social functions
subjective judgments
lack of recognition of high ability

Realtings characteristics:
high achiever
knowledge
objective perceptions
independent
self doubt
intellectually curious
visionary
competition with self and others
what would happen if...
non conformist
loves to play with words
principles
enjoys complexity
likes independence from authority
architect of changes
systems designer
argumentative

Realting is analytical, global, conceptual, cool, calm, collected, inventive, logical, perfectionist, abstract, and hypothetical, investigative.

Realting seeks knowledge and understanding
Realting lives life by own standards
Realting needs explanation and answers
Realting values intelligence, insight, fairness and justice
Realting is a non-conformist, a visionary, and a problem solver

Realting at work is a conceptual and independent thinker.For him, work is play. Realting is drawn to constant challenges in careers and life to develop models, explore ideas, or build systems to satisfy his need to deal with the innovative. Once Realting perfects the idea, prefers to move on, leaving the project to be maintained and supported by others.

Style; Visionary (what might be)
Goal: Competency
Biggest stressor: Incompetence

Interesting enough, this personality trait is shared by most For-Sale-By-Owners, (Myself) - Cool Cat, and 12% of the general population commonly known as the Green Personality trait outlined in Richard Robbins training material. {note, I (Cool Cat) have defined myself, FSBO's, and Realting as having these characteristics that 12% of the population share.}

I would bet if Realting truly is a 50 million dollar producer has a Gold personality type working for him.

The three other Personality types are as follows:

Gold: (43% of the general population)
At work, provides stability and can maintain organization. Has ability to handle details and work hard allowing to be the backbone of many organizations. Believes that work comes before play, even if must work overtime to complete the job.
Style: Stabilizer/traditionalist
Goal: Belonging
Biggest stressor: Disorder, ambiguity

Orange: (33% of the general population)
At work, is bored and restless with jobs that are routine and structured. Are satisfied with careers that allow them independence and freedom, while utilizing their physical coordination and love of tools. View any kind of tool as an extension of themselves. They are a natural performer.
Style: Trouble shooter/negotiator
Goal: Action
Biggest Stressor: Routine

Blue: (12% of general population)
At work, has strong desire to influence others so that they may lead more significant lives. They often work in the arts, communications,education and in helping professions. Are adept at motivating and interacting with others.
Style: Catalyst (makes things happen)
Goal: Identify and finding the meaning of life
Biggest stressor: Guilt

Realting I'm sure is a combination of these personality traits. I (Cool Cat) am Green and Orange. My wife is Gold and Orange. My Broker is Green and Orange and interesting enough, most of the top producing agents are combinations of Blue, Gold, Green and Orange that represent the general population. I.E. about half of the agents are gold.

I could go into more details on all of the personality traits. It has helped me in dealing with people knowing how to relate to them. For instance golds and greens want you to be on time. Blues and oranges are always late. Blues like to bond, golds want all the details, oranges can't sit still through a listing presentation. Greens, well you have to prove that you know what you are doing.

I think Realting and I have a lot in common. He is probably a little more argumentative than me, but he is also very knowledgeable.

I just wish he would post his identification (I.E. web site or sites.) that way I could tell if he was truly a 50 million dollar producer or all talk. The green in me, would be humble if he truly was that high of producer. That would be 10 times my production. (Average home is $120,000 in Evansville) Having said that, this is my fourth year, I know so much more now, I will be competitive with Realting in the next couple of years. Realting, I have given it much thought on providing "full service" at "discount" competitive rates, just because of the changing market. There are some "discount" innovators in my market making me reevaluate the old model.


I already lifted the Green personality and applied it to Realting.
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:16 AM

I'm seeing some of the blue in me. More I think than the gold. Need to see the final color. Ok so I am Orange with some blue.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:16 AM

that sounds much better than a fruitcake! hee hee

actually when I take the other personality type tests, i come out as choleric/sanguine/melancholy or sometimes sanguine/choleric/melancholy which is probably yellow/gold/blue and gold/yellow/blue.

I certainly am more gold and yellow than blue.

Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:18 AM

I just want to know how Cool Cat figured me out I don't post that much. I think he really is a profiler for the Feds.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:19 AM

ohhhhh....so green is more choleric. well that doesn't sound too much like me except during certain times of the month or after too much coffee..
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:19 AM

Blues like to work with the elderly, really are concerned with relationships.

I have one friend away from work, one at work, my wife, and like just a couple of people online on this forum. I don't really care for most of the people you can tell by my online arguments. LOL
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:19 AM

Or to much coffee during certain times of the month
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:19 AM

prolly from what was said in this thread. a lot of our true colors came out here. hee hee
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:21 AM

My gawd my secret it out! I am no longer a Secret Agent.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:21 AM

Originally Posted By: Cool Cat
Blues like to work with the elderly, really are concerned with relationships.



hey. i want to prospect to seniors. does that count. lol
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:21 AM

Originally Posted By: Perky_REALTOR
THANK/YOU, COOL/CAT

Do/I Type/That Way/?
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:21 AM

Originally Posted By: Secret_Agent
Or to much coffee during certain times of the month


that too.

Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:22 AM

Originally Posted By: Cool Cat
Originally Posted By: Perky_REALTOR
THANK/YOU, COOL/CAT

Do/I Type/That Way/?


ONLY/SOMETIMES

Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:22 AM

it's the green in me, coming out. snicker.
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:23 AM

Or the coffee is making Perky a little snarky
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:31 AM

Hmmm. maybe I should be Snarky_REALTOR
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:35 AM

I'm going to go to bed. Watch the Referral clip.
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:35 AM

Your avatar is looking a little snarky at the moment.
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:36 AM

OK here we go again with the mention of the clip that I am not allowed to know about.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:37 AM

Originally Posted By: Cool Cat
I'm going to go to bed. Watch the Referral clip.


I will try to get it to load. thanks!
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/06/07 01:53 AM

I am an ORANGE!!! A lightbulb just went off!!!
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/07/07 11:10 AM

This thread really does qualify for "shooting the breeze" at this point. Not complaining, just saying . . .(because I have nothing brilliant to add and I have no idea what you're talking about).
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/07/07 08:28 PM

Well, we do bring Buffini up (capitalized in honor of cool cat's request).

Today I was very snarky and actually told someone to K.M.A. and meant it.

:-O Wonder what color that makes me now?
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/07/07 09:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Cool Cat
I'm going to go to bed. Watch the Referral clip.


Well....?
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/08/07 08:54 AM

Excellent!

Very similar to what I want to do - I do not want to cold call, call fsbos, etc. I will send letters maybe...but this system is excellent. Even if he mentioned that he is active in his church. wink
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/08/07 03:01 PM

Favorite quote:

"The worst thing to happen with a jackass client is that he will end up liking you and referring all of his jackass friends"

ROFL

(in the context of people to remove from your database)

ha haa
Posted by: Secret_Agent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/08/07 04:15 PM

Perky that is funny! Just what I would want more jackass clients!
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/08/07 06:01 PM

Mr. Buffini is excellent. I really like him - especially now - we have three things in common: we're Irish (though I'm several generations removed), we both real estate agents, (*well...we are! even if he does have a house with 11 bathrooms!) and he LOVES Columbo. That was it for me...this guy is A-okay in my book; anyone who loves Columbo is brilliant. wink

Anyway, he had a lot of great stuff to say about building a business from your SOI and making your clients part of your SOI, not just a "transaction." It really appeals to me.
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/08/07 09:31 PM

The Buffini tape on house warming parties is also very good.

I did an house warming party for one client that bought a house. He ended up having us list his house that was a FSBO. He then referred us to a friend. Two of his sons have bought their first house with us and now his third son is moving back to Evansville from NY. He is going to use us as well. The last sale that closed last week, the son actually told us he had no choice but to use us. We are giving both sons a house warming party when they are ready. It works! wink
Posted by: changeagent

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/08/07 10:54 PM

Why does an Irishman have an Italian name?
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/08/07 11:07 PM

I have no idea - maybe it's really O'Buffini but he wanted to make it less Irish. wink

Cool Cat, that's exactly the kind of stuff I want to do.
Posted by: Cool Cat

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/08/07 11:13 PM

Changeagent and Prodigy,

There is a half page ad in todays June 8, 2007 Wall Street Journal on page B7 that you both should check out. It is for a mail order course entitled From Jesus to Constantine: A History of Early Christianity which consists of twenty four 30 - minute lectures with complete Course Guidebooks. You can save up to $185 with priority code 23671 The DVD set is now only $69.95 plus $10 shipping. This special offer is also available online at www.TEACH12.com/8ws Check it out it looks interesting.

If you want to further your real estate career check out 100 Days to Greatness by Brian Buffini. smile
Posted by: Mama Pajama

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/19/11 09:25 PM

Buffini is a motivational speaker - he touches on everything under the sun. "100 Days" is time well spent. The follow up calls you get trying to sell you the coaching program - Not so much....

Buffini says his mentor is Zig Ziglar. They are much the same. He is basically the "by referral" program. Good stuff to implement for any profession.
Posted by: Perky_REALTOR

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/20/11 07:39 AM

I'm going to shift my opinion just a bit - I like some of what Buffini teaches. After some consideration, I find his policy of pestering people for referrals to be somewhat obnoxious...but otherwise, he has some good stuff to share.
Posted by: MrsSea

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/24/11 01:40 PM

Good question! I understand people not wanting to have to hear such content in a training! I'm not anti-relgious and in fact am a Christian, but it did bug me when I went to a WCR (Women's Council of REALTORS) meeting and someone was at the podium reading from the bible...
Posted by: REODayton

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 05/25/11 10:01 AM

Originally Posted By: Perky_REALTOR
I'm going to shift my opinion just a bit - I like some of what Buffini teaches. After some consideration, I find his policy of pestering people for referrals to be somewhat obnoxious...but otherwise, he has some good stuff to share.



I agree, Buffini could be a bit pestering. I also like Jennifer Allen, but I find her lack of asking for referrals disturbing. I take a bit from him, a bit from her and tailor it.
Posted by: jducey

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 06/01/11 06:26 PM

I took 100 Days to Greatness. No mention of God at all that I can remember. Good course though. I would say anyone who can should take it.
Posted by: Don Price (Pine)

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 10/29/11 10:53 AM

Originally Posted By: Perky_REALTOR
I'm going to shift my opinion just a bit - I like some of what Buffini teaches. After some consideration, I find his policy of pestering people for referrals to be somewhat obnoxious...but otherwise, he has some good stuff to share.



Bump - remember when that was used all the time - lol

I was just reading some of the comments about Buffini and noticed and agreed with what Perky posted above.

Then I had one of those moments where I also realized that we are all salespeople - most of us are involved somehow in the sales of real estate - and there is nothing more pesky and obnoxious than a salesperson when you don't need one - and never around when you do. Have you ever walked onto a car lot to just 'look'?
Posted by: PA Roadkill

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 10/30/11 05:26 AM

Originally Posted By: changeagent
Why does an Irishman have an Italian name?

Late to the game on this one.
Dario Franchetti, Indy 500 winner and married to Ashley Judd is also an Irishman with an non Irish name.
Posted by: Insider

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 11/18/11 05:11 AM

What is a Buffini?
Posted by: Landon Treber

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 11/18/11 02:35 PM

Is Buffini still around? I used to get a lot of emails regarding his programs, but that seems to have stopped.
Posted by: Jason Patton

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 10/16/12 10:00 AM

Not sure why it would matter. Just ignore the it and take the good parts.
Posted by: SBbkr

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 10/27/12 10:08 PM

I say if someone loves Jesus and is bold enough to be on mission in the context of there work and passion... living out there faith and speaking truth then Amen!!!
Posted by: ThisGalSellsRE

Re: Is there religious content in Buffini class? - 08/29/17 10:00 AM

Anytime I've heard him talk about faith it's his own. His own success story, his own trials, his own culture and his own faith. Buffini is more than a family name so it surpasses his story, it's a brand with a huge fan base complete with success stories just like his. Stories from all walks of life that reach out to anyone who takes the time to listen. He has a formula that works and his story is such a big part of what he does and why. If you can look past the religious aspect you'll see that his bottom line banks on his ability to encourage you to write your own success story. It's worth the time and the money. You should also look into his monthly CRM program.