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#71991 - 03/25/05 08:25 AM Vinyl Asbestos tiles?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I am planning to put my house on the market. Give the house's age (circa mid sixties), it is possible that the tiles covering the basement floor (1200 sq ft) contain asbestos. They are in good condition other than being marred with heel and tire marks (kids rode bikes in basement). Am consdiering putiing down carpet to cover the marks rather than attempting to clean such a large area. Before putting the house on the market (and installing the carpet) do I have to determine whether the tiles contain asbestos? If yes and they do, how do I keep this from scaring buyers away? (Plan to use a broker ...) Thanks in advance.

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#71992 - 03/25/05 08:35 AM Re: Vinyl Asbestos tiles?
Russel Ray Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 241
Loc: San Diego CA
I don't know what disclosure laws are like in New Jersey, but here in California we disclose, disclose, disclose.

If you don't want to have the tiles tested, then on the disclosure form I might write, "There are vinyl flooring tiles under the carpet in the basement."

It's funny you should bring up asbestos because I am working on a new asbestos section for my home inspection reports, which I'll post here for you:

Quote
ASBESTOS AND OTHER HAZARDOUS MATERIALS

Many materials normally used in past construction contained hazardous materials such as asbestos, lead, and formaldehyde. Testing and analysis of hazardous materials is not within the scope of a home inspection. HOMETEAM inspectors are not qualified as experts and are not licensed in the State of California in any field relating to environmental hazards, hazardous materials, or testing or opinions of such hazards or materials. If Client desires to know for certain whether asbestos or other hazardous materials exist in the structure, HOMETEAM recommends seeking the specialized services of a qualified asbestos testing or remediation company, industrial hygienist, hazardous materials specialist, or other qualified expert.

Most asbestos was used in construction prior to 1980, although some homes built later than 1980 have asbestos materials since contractors were allowed to use up their existing inventories. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) reports that asbestos presents a health hazard if it is “friable” (damaged, crumbling, or in a deteriorated condition that allows the release of fibers into the air). If asbestos fibers are inhaled or swallowed, they can have serious health effects, which may not appear until many years later. Asbestos can cause asbestosis, a scarring of the lungs that leads to breathing problems and heart failure. It can also cause cancer of the lungs and mesothelioma, a rare cancer of the chest or abdomen lining. Special regulations exist for the removal and disposal of asbestos, so a permit from a health and safety authority might be required before proceeding, as well as a permit for the disposal of the asbestos material. Since asbestos apparently does not cause any problems if it is not disturbed, in many cases it can remain in place with the owner aware of specific precautions regarding its care and maintenance. Any disturbance of the material, though, should be done by qualified personnel with experience handling asbestos materials. Further guidance is also available from the EPA (www.epa.gov).

Asbestos vinyl flooring (Linoleum™) has a coating of asbestos on the bottom and was widely used in homes and commercial buildings until the 1960s. Experts say that if it is left alone, asbestos flooring poses the lowest level of asbestos risk. Cutting or scraping asbestos flooring, or sawing or sanding in the area around asbestos flooring, can create dust containing asbestos fibers.

Asbestos was commonly used in the manufacturing of the “popcorn” or “cottage cheese” ceiling texturing material until 1978 when it was banned. Many of these ceilings are still around, though. This form of asbestos is considered safe as long as it is not scraped, damaged, or otherwise broken loose to allow asbestos fibers to be released into the air. Most of these ceilings have been painted by now, which means that the asbestos is encapsulated and, therefore, safe. HOMETEAM suggests that if the ceilings are painted, they be spray-painted them rather than brushed or rolled to prevent damage. If Client is going to remove the material, it should be tested before proceeding. If it does contain asbestos, HOMETEAM recommends consulting the testing company for removal recommendations.

Another common area where asbestos still exists in our homes is as insulation on exhaust flues on forced air furnaces (typically in the attic) and water heaters. Asbestos exhaust flue insulation, also called asbestos pipe wrap, is one of the more hazardous uses of asbestos because it is less stable than other forms of asbestos materials due to the heat from the exhaust flues. Generally it is safe to assume that insulated pipes contain some sort of asbestos pipe insulation material. Because asbestos pipe insulation is prone to deterioration, most authorities consider it a friable asbestos material and a health hazard.

Asbestos can also be found in some types of attic insulation and some types of ceiling accoustic tiles, as well as many other places depending on when the home was built. If Client’s home was built prior to 1985, HOMETEAM recommends that Client reads "Asbestos in the home" published by the Consumer Products Safety Commission (www.cpsc.gov).

Recommend caution if asbestos materials are suspected and regular homeowner monitoring and maintenance to protect suspected materials and prevent disturbance and damage.
unquote

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#71993 - 12/23/05 05:22 PM Re: Vinyl Asbestos tiles?
GailSusan Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: 08/19/04
Posts: 507
Saber, I put down a berber wall to wall carpet in my finished basement which had a tile floor from the 1950's which could have had asbestos. The asbestos in the insulation of the furnace came up as an inspection issue, but not the flooring. Since I had never had the tiles tested, I wasn't required to disclose that they were possible asbestos. I'm in Connecticut, I don't know what the real estate laws in NJ require.

I do know that when I show a home, tile floors from the 1950's in the basement create a red flag in a lot of clients' minds even though they are not the same health threat as asbestos insulated pipes. It's more a financial issue down the road of something that will cost extra if they want to remove the tiles because removal and disposal are expensive. I've never seen it stand in the way of a home that someone really wanted to buy, however.

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#71994 - 12/23/05 06:04 PM Re: Vinyl Asbestos tiles?
Russel Ray Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 241
Loc: San Diego CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by GailSusan:
I've never seen [asbestos] stand in the way of a home that someone really wanted to buy, however.
With the proper education of the buyer, I don't think any type of asbestos should stand in the way of anyone buying a home. Just my own personal preference, though, although in 33 years in seven states I've never seen anyone have problems with asbestos once they had all the information about it that I could dig up at the time.

Knowledgable Clients make happy Clients.

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#71995 - 01/07/06 02:33 PM Re: Vinyl Asbestos tiles?
Laneman Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/07/06
Posts: 9
Loc: Texas
Asbestos in floor tiles would never stop me from buying a home. The only health risk from asbestos is if its small fibers become airborn. A vinyl floor tile is one of the most stable products containing asbestos. It will not release fibers into the home on its own unless someone takes a saw or tile chisel to it. I don't think I would even disclose it. It is possible that older tile has asbestos but not certain (not every tile did). You should not have to test everything in your home just because you are selling. Ask your agent for an opinion to play it safe, but you should be ok without mentioning it.
_________________________
The house tells the story, we just write it down.

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#71996 - 01/08/06 04:49 AM Re: Vinyl Asbestos tiles?
Russel Ray Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 241
Loc: San Diego CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Laneman:
[QB] Asbestos in floor tiles would never stop me from buying a home. The only health risk from asbestos is if its small fibers become airborn. A vinyl floor tile is one of the most stable products containing asbestos. It will not release fibers into the home on its own unless someone takes a saw or tile chisel to it. I don't think I would even disclose it. It is possible that older tile has asbestos but not certain (not every tile did).
Up to a certain date (and I don't know that date off hand, but if you would like it, let me know), I believe all vinyl flooring used in our homes contained asbestos. After asbestos was eliminated from the manufacturing process, inventory was still allowed to be used. And I even had a case a couple of years ago where they found asbestos vinyl flooring in a home that had been built in 1995, well after asbestos was eliminated. Further investigation revealed that grandpa had a lot of vinyl flooring in his work house and, when he died, they decided to tell the house and use that "new" vinyl flooring to re-floor some of the rooms.

My recommendation specifically for asbestos is that if it were known to contain asbestos, certainly it should be disclosed. If it were suspected of containing asbestos, that also should be disclosed, but it could be disclosed thusly: "The vinyl tile floor in the game room was installed in 1977 and, due to manufacturing methods at that time, probably contains asbestos." Then provide some additional information about asbestos.

Disclosure is very important because of the cost of doing things in today's world. If a person bought a house with vinyl flooring that was not disclosed as containing or possibly containing asbestos, and the homeowner went to replace the flooring himself, crumbling up those tiles so they'll fit easier into the trash cans, he is now creating friable asbestos and could have health problems. At which point you know who he is going to come after.

Additionally, many states require special disposal of asbestos-containing materials, so if he consults with a flooring service and, after testing, finds out that the flooring has asbestos in it, resulting in an extra cost to dispose of, again, you know who he is going to come after.

Best thing is to disclose everything and, if you're not sure, simply say that you're not sure and recommend that the buyer have his own testing/inspections done to resolve any concerns that he might have.

If anyone needs some useful links to asbestos information, let me know and I'll post them. I just don't have time right now to go get them if no one wants them.

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