#71853 - 11/20/05 10:49 PM
Recommendations for Inspectors
|
Member
Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 18
|
I have been using this one home inspection company very ritually until recently I feel a need to find a different one. Anybody out there who knows of a good MN home inspector that does a good job for the buyer but at the same time does not blow our deals with tiny concerns that aren't even necessary to address?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#71854 - 11/21/05 02:17 AM
Re: Recommendations for Inspectors
|
Moderator
Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 241
Loc: San Diego CA
|
. . .a good . . . home inspector that does a good job for the buyer but at the same time does not blow our deals with tiny concerns. . .
That's a pretty stereotypical statement, Realtor001. Finding such a home inspector might be a tough one for you. All the home inspectors that I know, including those in Minnesota, believe that it is up to the buyer to determine what are tiny concerns and what are not. If you need help from a home inspector in trying to decide what might be tiny concerns, certainly feel free to ask them. I haven't met a home inspector yet who is not willing to help by answering questions. The problem is that home inspectors don't know what their Clients consider "tiny concerns" and they don't know what Realtors consider things that "blow [their] deals." Of course, unless Realtors are buying something for themselves, they are not our Clients, so I'm always wondering why they try to control the home inspection process. Of course, I know, because your stereotypical statement just told me. However, what I consider a tiny concern might not be what my Client considers a tiny concern. How are we to know? Most of us home inspectors set up our inspection protocols based on legal statutes and court case law, as well as advice from our attorneys and insurance providers (who read the legal statutes and court cases). I suspect you do the same as a Realtor. Just this year, though, I have tried to address statements such as yours by offering a choice of different inspections at different prices. As a former Realtor myself (many decades ago), I don't believe that one home inspection fits all. For example, my pre-LISTing inspections are very inexpensive because I don't describe the property and I don't note what I consider tiny concerns, such as the hole in the screen window, which costs $10 to patch, $25 to rescreen, and $50 to replace. I also have BASIC, STANDARD, PREMIUM, and TECH inspections. BASIC is for Clients and Realtors who don't want to know about the hole in the screen window and is very good for investment properties. STANDARD is our most thorough inspection and includes what I, and I alone, consider tiny concerns. PREMIUM is a little more hand-holding for our Clients, and TECH is a technically exhaustive inspection. Prices for, say, 1500 SF range from $289 (LIST) to $1389 (TECH). On the other hand, I had one Client buying a house which basically was in perfect shape except for screens missing at every window. Seems the view was so extraordinary that the sellers took all the screens off and sold them. Buyers backed out of the deal based on lack of screen windows. Now you and I know that any good Realtor who is looking at 6% commission (or even 2%) on a $799,000 property is going to splurge $500 for screen windows. That wasn't the issue, though. The buyers lived in Boston and were re-locating as far away from Boston as they could get in the lower 48. I did another inspection for them six weeks later on the same style home three blocks away, with screens; they bought it. I found out that their 3-year-old child had fallen three floors out of a Boston brownstone window without screens and died. So the lack of screen windows was an emotional issue that they couldn't deal with at the time, and it took them six weeks to recover. I could not have known that information prior to my first inspection. And in the overall scheme of things, yeah, $500 worth of screen windows on an $800,000 property seems like a "tiny concern," doesn't it? But if I had treated it as a tiny concern, I guarantee you that I would have been paying for $500 worth of screen windows, and possibly some psychologists' bills, and perhaps pain/suffering/emotional distress when they moved in and found no screen windows in their new home. Now with a $399 inspection fee, don't you think that noting $500 worth of missing screen windows is not such a tiny concern anymore? Perhaps if home inspectors charged a percentage of the selling price as our inspection fee, we might be more willing to skip over those tiny concerns. I suspect most of us would not, but who knows? If you would like to provide some examples of what you consider tiny concerns, maybe we can help you address them properly.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#71855 - 11/21/05 06:42 AM
Re: Recommendations for Inspectors
|
Veteran Member
Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 1271
Loc: Ohio
|
Forgive me if I'm interpreting your post wrong, but WOW. You've managed, IMHO, to bring down the entire RE industry with a few sentences.
As a buyer's agent you should be working in the best interest of your buyer, not your commission. If that means the "deal gets blown" then so be it.
Home Inspectors work for the buyer as well, not agents. They too should be working in their clients' best interest, not yours.
Before I recommend a HI, I talk to the individual. I want to see their report, and how thorough it is. I want to know what their qualifications are. Being a member of NAHI, or ASHI, usually gets them some extra points in my book, but not always. And I want to know how they explain issues to buyers. By that I mean, the way they comment on things that could freak out a buyer, or do they explain thoroughly, exactly what the problems are, and possible remedies. I want my buyers to feel comfortable in their purchase, but not by compromising my ethics.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#71856 - 11/21/05 07:47 AM
Re: Recommendations for Inspectors
|
Member
Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 18
|
Forgive me if my post gave everybody the wrong impression. I am usually very concerned with how inspectors do their job especially when it comes times when buyers pick someone they "heard of" and don't "know of". There had been a couple instances where I've seen an inspector would do something like make strong emphasis on a hairline crack between the joint of the walls (which to me was just normal wear and tear and he should have addressed it as cosmetic issues and it's up to buyer to request that fixed or not but it's nothing hazardous... instead of simply stating "that's not good,...should be fixed",... while he just failed to open up and inspect the furnace. The inspector I use is very detailed oriented and he goes to the extend to explain how things work, why they're like that, what's most costly to repair/replace, what's hazardous and what's not, etc.... And he never fails to answer my clients' questions and/or concerns. I understand what's tiny concerns and what's not depends on buyers but since I'm not an inspector myself, if my client doesn't know anything and I'm not an expert, I'd like the expert to have expertise they need to guide my client through, especially if they're first time home buyers.
As a first time home buyer myself several years ago, I hired an inspector whom I never knew of to do an inspection on a home my parents like (I did not because I saw strong evidence that the basement might have flooded in the past). The inspector came out to the almost 100 yrs old property (it was a very sunny summer day). He went through everything very fast, said he'd climb up the roof (since I told him I heard inspectors would do something like that if the weather allows ) but left without doing it. He also looked at the basement where all the vinyl was warped up and water stains and mold was evident on the walls but said not a single word about it until I told him of my concern that it might have flooded. He told me "it could be spilled water,...we never know". I almost say "you're fired" right on the spot. I mean I was a first time home buyer,...I told myself I would never let my buyers be in a house where the day after they close, the roof fell on their head or the gas traps them all in the house at night or having fun swimming in the basement during the rainy season. Hope this makes clear what my concern is.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#71857 - 11/21/05 08:07 AM
Re: Recommendations for Inspectors
|
Veteran Member
Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 1271
Loc: Ohio
|
Your 2nd post makes me feel soooo much better. =] I understand exactly what you're saying now. I would say, pick up the phone and make some calls, and either do lunch or coffee, or even drinks with them to get to know them, and how they do their inspections. Start w/those that have dropped off cards, or brochures in your office, then move on to HIs that other agents you know use.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#71858 - 11/21/05 09:07 AM
Re: Recommendations for Inspectors
|
Moderator
Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 241
Loc: San Diego CA
|
There had been a couple instances where I've seen an inspector would do something like make strong emphasis on a hairline crack between the joint of the walls (which to me was just normal wear and tear and he should have addressed it as cosmetic issues and it's up to buyer to request that fixed or not but it's nothing hazardous... instead of simply stating "that's not good,...should be fixed",... while he just failed to open up and inspect the furnace.
I don't know where you are, but here in San Diego cracks fall into the licensed jurisdiction of a structural engineer, soils engineer, or other foundation professional. Most home inspectors are not licensed engineers, so they shouldn't be saying that a crack "is bad, need to fix it" or that "it is just normal wear and tear." Without that licensing (and all 50 states have licensing for engineers), I think your home inspector should be stating that there is a crack and recommending further evaluation by a licensed structural engineer, soils engineer, or other foundation professional. I don't know what you define as a hairline crack, so I probably can't address your concern completely. But as with each Realtor and each Client, each house is different. So while 99 out of 100 hairline cracks might be normal wear and tear, we don't know when that 100th hairline crack is going to turn out to be something totally different, and expensive to repair. Additionally, what is a hairline crack at the time of the inspection can be an indicator of more serious problems going on. You and I don't know when that hairline crack occurred. If it occurred 20 years ago, then there probably is not a problem. However, what if it occurred two weeks ago right after your Client made an offer on the property and we inspected the property yesterday and found it? Sure, it looks like a common hairline crack, but only the appropriate professional should be analyzing those cracks to determine if there are more serious problems, not you, and not me, unless either of us is licensed as an engineer. But you as a Realtor probably don't want to be using your engineering license as a Realtor because that might leave you liable to a host of other problems. Same thing with me as a home inspector; even though I was licensed as an engineer, and have extensive knowledge about engineering, and it's still one of my avocations, I don't want to be practicing engineering without a license; I'm a home inspector. There are other home inspectors, like me, who were licensed in other professions at one time, such as plumbing, electricity, etc. Because of my engineering education, former profession in other states, and experience, I try to help my Clients with cracks since they appear everywhere. Here's what I put in my report that might help you (and any other Realtors reading this thread) and your Clients understand these cracks better: It is the nature of many construction materials to crack as they expand and contract, particularly with exposure to moisture as they get wet and dry out, and as they age. The more common of these materials include concrete, asphalt, stucco, brick, mortar, concrete block, plaster, sheetrock and drywall (also known as Gypsum™), and stone.
It is highly likely that your home, even if brand new, has what are considered common cracks in common areas, such as exterior walls, interior walls at corners of doors and windows, ceilings (usually in the middle), foundations (also usually in the middle of each foundation wall), garage floor, patios and porches, walkways, decks and balconies, retaining walls, and solid fences. It is virtually impossible for a home inspector to determine whether cracks are caused by structural failure or by some other cause, or, if caused by structural failure, whether the cause is active and ongoing. TYPICALLY, cracks in patios and porches, driveways, walkways, fences, and planters are not of a major concern to the structural integrity of the building. However, continued cracking could result in failure in those structures and, depending on the proximity to the house, damage to the structure. The closer other damaged structures are to the house, the more attention needs to be paid to those structures, their cracks, and the causes of those cracks.
Home inspectors use common definitions when documenting cracks. Common cracks are typically, but not always, defined as hairline cracks less than one-eighth inch wide or less than twelve inches in length. Almost by definition, concrete and stucco will crack, simply because the material shrinks and cracks as it dries, cures, and ages. Common cracks in concrete and stucco are also called shrinkage cracks. Common cracks can appear at any time in the life of a structure, typically at door and window corners where they typically are of least concern. However, they need to be monitored regularly to determine if they are expanding or lenghtening, at which point other problems might be present. But you probably won’t know until many months or years have passed since we tend not to notice incremental changes.
Major cracks are typically, but not always, defined as more than one-eighth inch wide, more than twelve inches in length, excessive in number, unusual (stair-step, V shaped, straight horizontal, or straight vertical), or in unusual locations (such as middle of a wall with no doors or windows nearby). If major cracks are present or appear, Client should seek additional evaluation from a qualified civil engineer specializing in foundations and structures. Some major cracks occur simply due to neglect and lack of knowledge about how to take care of common cracks. In other words, a common crack can very easily become a major crack if it is ignored.
In most areas of San Diego County, due to the type of weather and rainfall patterns we have, if the affected structure is over ten years of age (what we consider an “older home”), cracks PROBABLY do not pose any threat of significant additional short-term damage with NORMAL CLIMATE, NORMAL RAINFALL, and NORMAL SEISMIC ACTIVITY. However, cracks and areas around all cracks should be repaired and monitored on a regular basis, especially during periods of high rainfall or immediately after seismic activity, and any additional damage should be evaluated by a qualified civil engineer. If Client is unfamiliar with common cracks, Client should seek the specialized services of a qualified civil engineer for further evaluation and information. Major cracks, particularly in the foundation, walls, ceilings, and/or attached porches/patios, should be inspected BEFORE CLOSE OF ESCROW to help protect your investment in your home. Major cracks in driveways, walkways, and other areas typically are more cosmetic than of a critical failure nature but should still be evaluated by a qualified professional to weatherproof cracks to help prevent additional damage and accelerated deterioration.
Note that in many areas of San Diego County (Mission Hills, Kensington, etc.), particularly with older lathe-and-plaster structures, cracks, even major cracks, are not only common, they are the norm. However, all cracks, regardless of their size and where they are located, should be sealed from the weather and regularly monitored to ensure that, if they are active, they don’t cause major damage. Additionally, although you might be willing to accept a property with more than its fair share of undiagnosed/unrepaired common and major cracks in various areas, the person who seeks to purchase your property somewhere down the road may not be so accepting, thereby leaving you to make repairs then, at which time additional damage might have occurred due to ongoing neglect. It is in your best interest to take care of both common and major cracks now, before close of escrow and while the property belongs to someone else.
In a newer home (one that is no more than ten years old), cracks typically have not developed yet, but they will. Just wait. When they do, re-read this section on cracks, and then, as necessary, weatherproof the cracks and monitor them for widening or lenghtening.
Recommend repair and/or replacement of affected components. This means that you might need a licensed structural engineer or foundation professional to look at the cracks, determine their causes, determine if they are active or have the potential to become active, and design appropriate fixes for the specific types of cracks and causes. After that, as with everything else in our homes, you will need to practice regular homeowner monitoring and maintenance.
Remember that home inspectors are generalists and are not acting in any capacity as licensed engineers under State of California laws. We only document cracks and where they are located. We must, by law, leave determination of the causes, and appropriate fixes, to licensed structural engineers, civil engineers, geotechnical engineers, or other foundation professionals.
Note that that is for me here in San Diego and might not apply to other home inspectors in other states that have their own sets of problems, like the expansive clays in Central and East Texas, etc. The inspector I use is very detailed oriented and he goes to the extend to explain how things work, why they're like that, what's most costly to repair/replace, what's hazardous and what's not, etc.... And he never fails to answer my clients' questions and/or concerns.
Then I'm confused by your original post about wanting to find a different inspector. Sounds like you have a very good inspector already. I understand what's tiny concerns and what's not depends on buyers but since I'm not an inspector myself, if my client doesn't know anything and I'm not an expert, I'd like the expert to have expertise they need to guide my client through, especially if they're first time home buyers.
If I'm reading that correctly, you think your home inspector should be an expert. If that's your thinking, I think you have some unrealistic expectations of home inspectors. But it might help to know what state you're in. In Texas, for example, they have licensing which is very, very specific about what they do and don't do, and how they report on things. I don't know of any state, however, that believes that home inspectors are experts in anything. Indeed, I always break the ice with my Clients by stating, "I'm a generalist home inspector, not licensed in anything. What that means to you is that I know something about everything but everything about nothing." It gets a chuckle but also lets them know that I ain't no expert at nuthin'. As a first time home buyer myself several years ago, I hired an inspector whom I never knew of. . . .
Which begs the question, "Why would you hire someone that you never knew of to do a home inspection?" How did you find him? Realtor referral? Internet? Yellow pages? Considering that real estate is the major expense that we make in our lives (except for some rich people's weddings! LOL), I'm always perplexed why people obligate themselves to such a debt and then not check on the people who are helping them get into debt. Maybe it's just the way I was raised in the Deep South; I don't know. I told myself I would never let my buyers be in a house where the day after they close, the roof fell on their head or the gas traps them all in the house at night or having fun swimming in the basement during the rainy season.
Or burns down from a recalled appliance, which happened to me many years ago in Louisiana. I closed escrow on Friday, went out on Saturday to start renovating, put some frozen food in the microwave for 15 minutes, and went back out to the other end of the lot (six acres). Shortly thereafter the house burned down from a defective recalled microwave. That is why I do product recall research for all my Clients. There are very few of us who do it (none other than me here in San Diego), but considering that fully 25% of my inspections reveal an unresolved recall, it is well worth my time and effort. And I have received many, many unsolicited compliments from Clients and Realtors concerning that service.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#71859 - 11/21/05 09:18 AM
Re: Recommendations for Inspectors
|
Moderator
Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 241
Loc: San Diego CA
|
I would say, pick up the phone and make some calls, and either do lunch or coffee, or even drinks with them to get to know them, and how they do their inspections. Start w/those that have dropped off cards, or brochures in your office, then move on to HIs that other agents you know use. [/QB] I actually would recommend just the opposite. Start with the home inspectors that other agents you know use. They have experience with those agents, and experience should count a lot more than the ability to drop off cards or brochures to someone's office. Virtually every new (read, inexperienced) home inspector will drop off cards and brochures to offices. I say "virtually" because I'm one of the few who did not go that route. I went out and met Realtors at open houses, conventions, etc. Everything about real estate comes back to one basic: personal relationships. Cards and brochures haven't (and won't) establish any personal relationships. Home inspectors that Realtors in your office have experience with is the way to go. They'll know the good, the bad, the ins, the outs.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#71860 - 11/21/05 05:38 PM
Re: Recommendations for Inspectors
|
Member
Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 18
|
Thanks to all the suggestions and comments. I appreciate all the feedbacks. I actually "found" my current inspector and I've liked his professionalism and his work all along... Until lately he has been trying to send me to his son who also does inspections so he could go out golfing  (he's an older man so I guess he just wants to start retiring). His son had a different way of servicing so I'm a little concerned. I have recommended this inspector that I've been using to the folks in my office already but right now I'm having problems finding a different person myself.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#71862 - 01/06/06 03:09 PM
Re: Recommendations for Inspectors
|
Moderator
Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 241
Loc: San Diego CA
|
I hope you're somewhere in San Diego County, Kathy578. I'd love to work with you and your Clients, or, at the least, simply know that there are more Realtors like you here.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#71863 - 01/06/06 03:21 PM
Re: Recommendations for Inspectors
|
Member
Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 73
Loc: Wisconsin
|
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#71864 - 01/07/06 09:35 AM
Re: Recommendations for Inspectors
|
Major Contributor
Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 3367
Loc: Central Illinois
|
Kathy578, Actually you do mean to be nasty and confrontational as you seem to be in nearly every posting you have made on agentsonline.
Your profile does not say but are you agent? Inspector? Board Troll?
I think what the original poster meant was that in many cases some inspectors have a tendency to not fully educate the buyer on what is a problem and what will be a maintainence issue in a few years. Many first time buyers are extremely worried as this is the largest purchase they have ever made to date. I have seen many inspectors make comments on one of those maintainence issues that unnecessarily alarms the buyer. Some inspectors are in bad need of people skills!
My 2 favorite inspectors always take about 15 minutes before the inspection to explain the difference between issues and later maintainence items.
_________________________
Paul Oaks Oaks Real Estate Group
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#71865 - 01/07/06 09:39 AM
Re: Recommendations for Inspectors
|
Moderator
Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 241
Loc: San Diego CA
|
Hey, Paul.
Although Kathy578 says "I don't mean to be nasty or confrontational," as a home inspector I didn't find her comments to be that way. I did find them to be quite on the mark, and I deduced (perhaps wrongly) that she is a real estate agent.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#71866 - 01/07/06 09:45 AM
Re: Recommendations for Inspectors
|
Member
Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 73
Loc: Wisconsin
|
I'm guessing a home inspector.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 222
|
|
|