I have to meet a home inspector a few towns away on a Sunday to let him into a house. Why wouldn't a professional simply become an affiliate with the local MLS and get a supra/key and let themselves into the house. If you want to ride the train, then pay the freight. Am I being too difficult?

Why would it be OK for anyone to go into a listed home without an agent? I could very easily see some serious liabilty issues for an agent that allows this to happen.

All that agent needs is even the suggestion by the homeowner that somesomething was stolen, broken, or messed up, & they'll being seeing how good an E&O policy they've got.

Katie- Do you allow appraisers to let themselves in alone? Of course...so let's get real. Are you suggesting home inspectors are a different type of people?

That phrase "if you want to ride the train" would apply more to the agent than to the inspector...you are in charge of the buyer's or sellers transaction from start to finish. It's your responsibility to give everyone involved in the transaction, access to the property including inspectors, appraisers and any contractors that need to work on the home or give estimates. That is why you make a minimum of 10 times the fee the home inspector does. Time to earn that paycheck.

If I never heard of the appraiser, absolutely I'm there. And I'll tell you why. More and more lately, appraisers around here are simply doing drive-bys, not a full-blown interior inspection, and as I do a good deal of REO's, I'm getting messed over on the listing price.

HI's are not a different type of people. But, like any industry, you just don't know. Currently there's no licensing law for HI's in Ohio. Not just for liabilty issues, I've never missed an inspection. I want to know ASAP if there's any issues, and quite honestly, I want to make certain that my buyers are getting a professional, fair, & accurate inspection.

Katie- Home inspectors in both Illinois and Indiana are required to be licensed just as appraisers and agents. If they were not, I would have to share your stance. Appraisers and home inspectors earn close to the same for each report around here. I have never seen an appraiser not have a supra since obtaining my license in 1997.
I see that customs vary around the country. In this area, this would be like a buyers agent asking the listing agent to met, open, wait and lock up while I show the home. Fat Chance.

Kevin- Do you have a supra?

This one's going to change in the next few years, but our appraisers aren't required to be licensed, either.

If things here were the way they are in your area, I could see not being there, definately, unless someone had an express wish for me to attend.

I've been a member of the San Diego Association of Realtors for five years now. They do not allow anyone other than Realtors and attorneys to have access to Supra keys, and only Realtors and attorneys can join the local MLS.

I would love to ride the train since my father was Vice-President of Missouri Pacific, but the train don't stop at my station in this case.

Home Inspectors and Appraisers can join our local association as Affiliate members and have Supra Key access. Makes life easier for all involved.

never mind.

Access to the keys is regulated by each separate association. The county I live in does not allow it. I have no idea about the other 10 counties I serve. Becoming a member to all of them could get expensive at $400 each per year.

Same here. I think if they want business from our clients, they should join and pay the fee. It DOES make life easier. My list of appraisers and inspectors that I give our includes only members. I would recommend to any inspector to join if they want business.

Using that analogy, though, no home inspector should do business with you unless you join a home inspector trade association. Tit for tat?

Who has more money to join all these associations, a Realtor making 3% commission on a $500,000 house, or a home inspector making $299 on a $500,000 house?

There are many good reasons to join the local realtor's association. Unless I served only a small area, getting on your limited list is not one of them. And even then, it would be low on the list. I'm not fond of dealing with people that have narrow minds. Access to keys could be high on the list if it was an available benefit but it is not.

Because there are so many "local" associations in the area that I serve, I would have to guaranteed to be at the top of everyone's list just so I could get enough business to pay all of the fees.

Most people I know are capable of writing a check and joining something. That does not make them a good inspector, or an inspector at all.

Broaden your horizons. There is a great big beautiful world out there. You might find find people that can better serve your clients than those on your "list".

And, if I were a client, paying 3% on $500,000 for services, I would be pretty upset if I heard an agent complain about having to drive to the property.

Ray,
That by far is the most foolish thing I have ever heard! Home Inspectors are vendors to the real estate transaction. Last time I checked Home Inspectors do not generate any business for real estate agents!

Affiliate membership costs far less than a full membership and is usually an excellent networking source for most of the inspectors I know...

I wasted 3 hours of my life last Sunday waiting for a keyless home inspector to inspect a house. 2 hours for the inspection, then 1 hour while he made himself at home at the kitchen table writing the report. He than asked if anyone had any questions, concerns or comments. I replied, " Perhaps, you should get a supra so other agents won't have to waste their time while you inspect. This little supra will help you get referrals. And no I do not want any of your cards because I do not like self - torture." Finally, I was no longer held hostage and released back to my life. Can you imagine an appraiser doing this? Of course not.

Not any less foolish than some uppity Realtor stating that she doesn't refer a home inspector unless the home inspector is a member of the local Realtor Association.

And I'm working very hard in my neighborhood to ensure that Realtors don't control my business in any way, shape, or form. In my eye, and the reason why RESPA exists, too many Realtors not only want to control the whole real estate process, they want everyone who are vendors to the real estate transaction to pay them. Doesn't work that way, and I'm not the only one working hard to get Realtors out of the home inspection business. See IHINA at www.ihina.com (I'm not a member--I'll work in my own way.)

A great example came to me today when a Realtor called complaining about the price I charged ($399) for a home inspection on a 1598-SF home last Sunday. When she scheduled the inspection, as I always do, I quoted her a price. She obviously didn't listen to me because the Client was upset at the inspection about the price. Well, instead of the Realtor telling him my current price, she had provided him with a $20 discount coupon dated March 2002 (I date all my marketing materials) and a March 2002 price list.

Ms. Realtor couldn't go to the inspection because she had skiing lessons Sunday afternoon. For shame, for shame. Wouldn't want to let a lowly home inspection and Clients providing a 3% commission on a $561,000 house interfere with her skiing lessons, especially on a Sunday. Now why would a Realtor, who I presume can read, provide a price list from March 2002 and then complain because I had raised my prices $149 in four years, a mere $35 a year? Am I never allowed to raise my prices?

Using different words, I kindly suggested to her that with a $16,800 commission paycheck, perhaps she could splurge for her Clients and reimburse them for the home inspection fee or perhaps the difference between my June 2006 price and my March 2002 price. She called me a nice name and hung up on me. I hope she never calls again, but if she does, I'll politely decline to work with her.

I'm a very easy-going, laid back, Southern-bred boy, and it takes a lot to get my dander up, but I really don't take much to inconsiderate jerks or people who try to control me and my business.

Hey, I've been an Affiliate member of SDAR since October 2001. They still don't let me have a Supra key. Nor do they let any Affiliate member have a Supra key. It's not up to me, so if all you Realtors think that Affiliate members should have access to Supra keys, please, write your local AR, your state AR, and NAR, and let them know. Trust me, Affiliate members are not going to change what Realtors have in their own industry. Affiliate members can change what Realtors get from our industries, though.

I happen to believe strongly in networking, having been a member of Le Tip and BNI for 33 years. However, no one that I've ever met outside of Realtors would pretend to know what I charge for my services. They always give me the courtesy of a call, know how to read, know how to ask if the price list they have that is dated March 2002 are still good, etc.

Appraisers here in San Diego also are Affiliate members, so they also do not have Supra keys.

Quite often Realtors here will come let us in and then go do something while we do our job. Many times they leave and come back. Perhaps you could do that. After all, what's the difference between a home inspector letting himself in (you're not there) and you coming and leaving (again, you're not there). So it sounds like it was your own fault that you let someone waste your time.

Perhaps you should read "How to Use Your Time Wisely," a great little book by Phyllis Kaufman & Arnold Corrigan. While it is out of print, there are lots of copies for sale at borders.com.

Since we here in San Diego have to depend on Realtors to let us in, every time a Realtor is late to the inspection, inconveniencing both me and the Clients buying the house, I write SDAR asking them to let Affiliate members have Supra keys. They regularly state something like, "Thank you for your suggestion. At this time, we don't allow Affilate members to have Supra keys, yada yada yada." Yeah, right, whatever.

I never let third parties cause me to waste time. I and my employees always have notebook computers, professional books and magazines, etc., in our cars so that if that important third party is late, we simply work on our computers compiling reports from earlier inspections, or preparing for later inspections, or inspecting exteriors until we can get inside, or updating our knowledge by reading, or whatever. I quite often take books and magazines with me to stores, post office, etc., so that if I have to stand in line, I'm going to accomplish something while I'm standing there. Many Realtors here also bring stuff to work on. There are many, many ways not to let someone else interfere with your work.

As a former Realtor in another state (Texas), one of the main reasons why I use multiple inspectors is because I recognize the conditions that I have to work under, those conditions involving a third party, so using multiple inspectors cuts down on the actual inspection time, allowing everyone to leave earlier and go do something during those valuable daylight hours.

My apology to all home inspectors who are affiliate members and still are not allowed supra access....I do not include any of you in my pet peeve rant. You have done all you can... it is up to the local association to give hi's the same courtesy and respect given to appraisers.

Home inspectors, appraisers, and all other Affiliate members here with SDAR do get the same respect. It's just not the same respect that Realtors get with their own trade association, and I would not expect it to be so.
Would it be nice? Sure.
Do some Realtor associations in some areas provide equal respect to Affiliates and Realtors. Yes.

Over at the National Association of Certified Home Inspectors, we have a couple of Realtors who are members. Both of them have vast experience in renovating properties, so they were able to pass the knowledge test. They are not working members, but we do accord them the same membership privileges that our home inspector members get.

I can tell from your posts what you think of real estate agents. A home inspector with an attitude, we call them "deal killers"

I only have an attitude with Realtors who bring their attitudes to the table first, as you did.

Your "deal killer" attitude just confirms it. The only thing that kills a deal is the seller not taking care of a property and refusing to work with the buyer to correct problems that home inspectors document.

Actually, there's two other things that kills deals, and that's Realtors who don't know how to negotiate properly on behalf of their Clients and Realtors who simply don't care about their Clients because such caring and negotiating might mean that it takes a little longer to close escrow and collect that almighty commission paycheck. Wouldn't want to work too hard, now would we?

Presumably agents that care enough and know enough to properly negotiate a Repairs Addendum would also care enough to be present at the inspection without complaining about spending time working for their client.

Didn't mean to cause such a stir---I would think it would be to your benefit to be an affiliate member (if you had access to lockboxes, and ours do). I am more familiar with the inspectors who are members, because they do network, attend some functions, give presentations, etc. I am sure there are plenty of good inspectors out there who are not members, but I am not familiar with them. If you don't choose to join, then that is your choice. And I have personally dealt an inspector who had an attitude against us "uppity" agents, and prided himself that none of his inspections ever closed (and they didn't), even to the extent of falsely reporting that a house had been on fire when it hadn't. He is out of business now.
So if a client wants a recommendation on an inspector, I give a list. That list includes the ones that I know, and they happen to be affiliate members of the board, and they have their own access. I just want the client to have a good, honest, competent, inspection, and I won't recommend one that I know nothing about.

I remember the best realtor I ever dealt with. She came to the inspection on time, opened the door, followed me & my clients around while I did the inspection, sat quietly the whole time not offering all the little "no big deal" comments, and did a little office work while she waited.
After the inspection she stayed with her clients after I left to discuss any concerns they had if anything.
That was my most pleasurable experience with a realtor at an inspection. I wish they all would take her lead.
I do not have a supra. I work a large area (rural) and would have to belong to many association to get access to all the homes. Many realtors don't use the supra key as they have their own combo box which they give me the combo for. What I hate is when they call to have me go out of my way to swing by their office to pick up a key....I decline and tell them to meet me....if they have a problem with that, I tell them to talk to their client to find out why I couldn't do the inspection....they show up and unlock the door.

Ray,
You are pulling at my heart strings with that the worlds smallest violin!

If you don't like it that one Realtor only recommends member home inspectors you only have a single choice. Either join or find better ways to market directly to home buyers. I personally wish inspectors would find better ways to directly market to the consumer. But the facts of life are that till that day comes you are dependent on Realtors for your business. Maybe inspectors might consider spending what many Realtors spend on personal marketing so they can break their dependance on Realtors.

RESPA has Nothing to do with Realtors and Inspectors unless one or the other is giving the other a financial kickback that does not appear on a HUD1.


Your example can be easily countered by most Realtors with a home inspector horror story of an inspector behaving badly but why bother. The agent in your example is an idiot that either failed to fully read your price list or she was trying to pull a fast one. You are out nothing except the time you spend with her on the phone. Sound like the two of you will not willingly be working together in a transaction. Send a thank you post card to the buyer thanking them for their business and apologize that their Realtor supplied them with an old price list and an expired coupon.
Two weeks later mail them a letter and include a coupon worth $25 or $30 to be used toward a home inspection. Ask them if they would consider passing it on to another couple they might know that is looking to buy and just maybe they will pass it on!

I am sorry that your local association/board is so backward that they fail to see the benefits of allowing SupraKeys to inspectors and appraisers. Have you asked why they do not allow you access?? It has nothing to do with NAR or your State Association it is a local decision.

One would think so.

When I was a Realtor in Houston back in the '70s and '80s, if someone needed to be on a property that I had listed, I guarantee you that I was there with them protecting my Clients' interests. On the rare occasion that I could not personally be there, my assistant or partner were there.

As I have said a couple of times, I have been an Affiliate member of SDAR since October 2001. They didn't allow Affiliate members to have lockbox keys then, and they still don't, regardless of what the lockbox key's current name is.

I have no problem with what you state in your current post. I don't refer people that I don't know, either. I think that's good business practice. But to state, as you previously did, that you would not recommend anyone who was not a member of your local AR is disingenuous at best.

I actually pride myself on helping everyone play in the same sandbox together. After all, one person wants to sell a house, the other person wants to buy a house, and I'm simply there to document the condition of the property so that everyone knows exactly what the house is. New Realtors and first-time buyers, the two categories that seem to be most concerned about home inspections, tend to love me and my reports because I do so much education at the actual inspection and in the report itself. My reports come on a computer disk with links to documents and Internet sites for more educational materials. It's not necessary to frighten anyone with a home inspection report if one educates them about conditions, typical causes of those conditions, typical results of ignoring those conditions, typical ways to resolve those conditions, and appropriate recommendations concerning the conditions.

Thanks for your clarification about why you recommend specific inspectors. You sound more reasonable now.

Not only do I play the violin, but I also play the piano and I'm a singer. My mother was one of the accompanists for the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, so we started music at the age of 2 (piano) and then, at 6, we were forced to choose one other instrument (I chose violin). Ultimately, though, it's difficult to play the piano or violin around the campfire, so I also took up voice.

I did both. And I continue to do both. I market directly to home buyers through my Internet site and through my Referral Rewards Program for past Clients. My past Client referrals currently are accounting for one-third of my home inspections, and that after only five years in business.

I'm not dependong on Realtors for business, although many home inspectors are. And Realtors are a very nice, well-defined target audience, so marketing to them is a great way to get started in this business. As soon as I did business with that first uppity Realtor, though, I knew I had to go to extremes to get Realtors out of my business. They are not home inspectors, and I'm no longer a Realtor, having moved to a different state; they are two different professions and one should not be controlling the other. Referring and controlling are two different things.


As soon as the public realizes that home inspectors saving them thousands of dollars in repair bills are worth more than paying some Realtors to help them sign a lot of disclosure papers, with the resultant increase in our commissions to, oh, about 3%, I'll be happy to spend what Realtors spend on personal marketing. No problem whatsoever.

My most recent wood-roof Client on a 4,300-SF house got a $50,000 reduction in price for a new, fireproof roof. You think those two Realtors still like me? I just took away $1,500 of her commission money. My Clients called several times telling me that their Realtor's response to the roof was, "It's been there since they built the place and hasn't burned down yet. And it's along the coast." As I told them, "Fires happen everywhere, even along the coast. And since we cannot predict what's going to happen tomorrow, the best way to protect your financial interests in that house is to have a new fireproof roof put on."

Good thing you put that "unless" in there.


Absolutely. There are horror stories in every industry, and there always will be as long as humans, or what humans build, are involved. The current story about the hospital mixup with the dead woman and the woman in a coma is a great example.

Thanks for your ideas on customer service. I've already got it taken care of, though:

Day of inspection - Remind them that they can call me 24/7 about anything that concerns them, to ask any question.

3 days after report is delivered - Follow up with all parties (Client, Client's Agent, seller/seller's Agent) to see if anyone has any questions or if I can help in any way.

14 days after report is delivered - Follow up with all parties (Client, Client's Agent, seller/seller's Agent) to see if anyone has any questions or if I can help in any way.

30 days after report is delivered - Follow up with all parties (Client, Client's Agent, seller/seller's Agent) to see if anyone has any questions or if I can help in any way.

When I know escrow has closed (I check the MLS and the public records each Saturday) - Follow up with all parties (Client, Client's Agent, seller/seller's Agent) to see if anyone has any questions or if I can help in any way.

30-60 days after escrow closes - Follow up with all parties (Client, Client's Agent, seller/seller's Agent) to see if anyone has any questions or if I can help in any way.

30-60 days after escrow closes - Follow up with Client about Referral Rewards Program.

6 months after escrow closes - Follow up with all parties (Client, Client's Agent, seller/seller's Agent) to see if anyone has any questions or if I can help in any way.

One year after escrow closes - Follow up with all parties (Client, Client's Agent, seller/seller's Agent) to see if anyone has any questions or if I can help in any way.

Each annual anniversary after escrow closes - Follow up with all parties (Client, Client's Agent, seller/seller's Agent) to see if anyone has any questions or if I can help in any way.

In all follow-ups, everyone gets gift checks for $20 off any inspection, $30 off inspections of $299 or more, and $40 off inspections of $599 or more. I also offer a professional-to-professional discount to Realtors.

Many Realtors who hate me call me regularly to do inspections for their family and friends, but rarely anymore for their Clients. Hmmmmmmmm. Why is that?

Hey, you don't have to apologize for their decisions since you had nothing to do with it. No one can explain to me why they don't allow Affiliate members to have access to Supra keys. It's just a benefit that is reserved for Realtors and attorneys. Perhaps it has something to do with the exorbitant price of real estate out here. With the average home currently selling for $500,000, and with Realtor commissions being at 5-6%, perhaps the local AR believes that they have to reserve something for Realtors, especially with a great many people now using the Internet to search for properties. Unfortunately, and this is probably indigenous to California, it seems that the only thing Realtors her get to do in today's world is hand the buyer and seller a three-foot stack of disclosure and disclaimer papers to sign. It's a shame, because my time as a Realtor in Houston from 1977-1983 was quite enjoyable. I don't think I would have near the enjoyment as a Realtor here, which, of course, is why I'm not a Realtor here.

Maybe you should have gotten them to tear it down and put up something adobe or stone and that way it would be even harder to burn.

Funny how it is that the buyers looked at a home with a wooden roof and then made an offer on a house with a wooden roof and then you come along and say well there could always be a fire and then ask the sellers for a fire-proof roof. While you were at it you should have requested they make it earthquake proof as well as CA is prone to those. Maybe you should have recommended that they install a SAM system in case something were to crash into their new house or maybe a high wall,moat and window bars in case someone may want to break into the house....

The sellers must have needed to sell if they agreed to that! You wonder why agents dislike you! The wooden roof was hardly a hidden defect in the home and they were aware of it when they made their offer..

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Russel Ray:
[QB] My most recent wood-roof Client on a 4,300-SF house got a $50,000 reduction in price for a new, fireproof roof. You think those two Realtors still like me? I just took away $1,500 of her commission money. My Clients called several times telling me that their Realtor's response to the roof was, "It's been there since they built the place and hasn't burned down yet. And it's along the coast." As I told them, "Fires happen everywhere, even along the coast. And since we cannot predict what's going to happen tomorrow, the best way to protect your financial interests in that house is to have a new fireproof roof put on."[QUOTE]

Paul,

You seem to be arguing just to argue. Go back and re-read Russel's post. Then read it again. After you fully understand what he wrote, go to the nearest trauma center and visit with the burn patients. Ask them if they are in much pain. Maybe then you might begin to understand the importance of noting safety defects.

The high and mighty buyers agent (the one that should have been looking out for the buyer's interest) was obviously only interested in the sale. Someone must look out for the buyer.

Not everyone knows as much about homes and how safe they are as you or I do. This is precisely why home inspectors are needed. We report on the current condition of the home and it's safety. It has long been known that wood roofs are a fire hazard, especially in arid climates like Southern California. A home buyer cannot make an informed decision if kept in the dark by unscrupulous realtors.

Hey, Paul.

Notwithstanding your sarcasm and condescension, the Southern California fires of October 2003 burned 742,000 acres, destroyed 3,361 homes, and took 26 lives, not to mention all the wildlife and pets.

A significant majority of those homes had wood shake roofs. Slowly, but surely, if humans don't get rid of them in high fire hazard areas like Southern California, Father Fire will do it for us.

Firefighters here during these firestorms rarely try to fight a fire at a home with a wood shake roof. When the roof catches on fire, there's basically no stopping the fire after that. I have some pictures around here of a neighborhood that had about half wood roofs and half tile roofs. All of the homes in that neighborhood that had wood roofs burned to the ground--every single one of them. Not a single home with tile roofs burned.

Even if it's just a single home on fire, if it has a wood shake roof that catches on fire, the firefighters know they have lost the fight and the home.

When Realtors make an older home into a modern home with no problems in order to get that commission paycheck as fast as possible, it's up to home inspectors to protect the financial interests of the buyer. Someone has to do it.

Additionally, there have been many people move into San Diego who were not here during the October 2003 fires, some not even in the United States, so they are not necessarily educated about the dangers of wood roofs in high fire hazard areas such as San Diego County. That's where my educational reports come in.

Seismic upgrades here in California are another point of contention. Realtors, as with wood shake roofs, like to say, "Well it's been standing since 1918 and hasn't fallen down yet!" As if that's supposed to provide comfort to the buyer when the earthquake hits next month and their house collapses on them and kills their your child.

If the seller's had an astute Realtor, that Realtor would have gotten some roof estimates and/or a home inspection and used either or both to make the whole process go more smoothly.

Yeah, I can see where your compassion lies. Next time y'all have a natural disaster anywhere in your neighborhood, I just might be having a margarita on the beach here instead of sending a financial donation to the Red Cross.

Neil,
I read the post correctly...and my point still stands as posted. The buyer looked at a home with a shake roof and then made an offer on a home with a shake roof. They did not originally include in the offer that they expected to seller to install a new fire resistant roof!!

Are your really that much of an idiot that you believe I would have no sympathy for anyone burned in a fire...?

The buyers agent did their job. Show the home with its SHAKE SHINGLE ROOF.....The Buyers liked the house and wrote an offer....guess what it still had the SHAKE SHINGLE ROOF which they appeared to like since they wrote the offer and did not ask that the sellers replace the roof at the time of the offer....

along comes the inspector who says "did you know that a WOODEN roof could be a fire hazzard"!!!!!!
DUHHHH! Were the buyers unaware that CA has a fire problem?

Now Class who out there is not aware that WOOD will burn?????


I am not saying that the roof should not have been replaced if it concerned the buyers...just that they should have been the ones to pay for it since they were aware of its presence when the offer was written.

People like the look of shake despite the fact it is not as fire safe as other materials..people in CA also build houses hanging off the sides of a cliff and then wonder why the home slides down the hill when the heavy rains hit....

Ray,
Do you like your Margaritas Frozen or Iced?? Original or Strawberry????

So did you think these buyers looking for homes in Southern California are too stupid to realize there are fires? Are they shutins with no access to TV?? Did you think they were stupid and did not realize the roof was made of wood??? Shake Shingles is not something you mistake and I bet the MLS sheet mentioned Shake Shingle roof so the buyers were aware of it.

This was NOT a hidden defect....and the sellers point was correct it has not burned since it was installed.

And therein lies the reason for a home inspection.

And therein lies the reason for a home inspection.


Not "could be a fire hazard," but "is a fire hazard." There is a big difference.

And when buyers have dream home visions, and sellers' agents and buyers' agent do nothing but make those dream home visions even dreamier, well, therein lies the reason for a home inspection. We wake everyone up from their dreams, dreams of a dream home for the buyers, dreams of money for the sellers, and dreams of large commission paychecks for the Realtors involved.

In my 33 years in real estate, I have only met a few people who looked at the roof when buying a home, and they were roofing contractors. Everyone else looks at curb appeal, kitchen, and bathrooms, which, perhaps, is why all the Realtor associations and brokerages continue to tell their agents to encourage their sellers/listings to plant plants and paint the kitchens and bathrooms. Hmmmmmm.


And so there's your argument against your own argument. There is lots of concrete shake out there that looks very much like wood. There is even concrete shake out there that looks like an old wood shake roof with curled shingles. So the average buyer in today's world really might not know until a home inspector comes along and tells them.

There's also Cal-Shake, which looks very much like wood, and even deteriorates like wood, which, of course, is what led to the class action lawsuit against Cal-Shake.

And I have no problem discussing houses hanging off the sides of a cliff and the inherent problems associated with them with my Clients.

The whole purpose of my reports is to educate my Clients. Who else is going to? Certainly not the great majority of Realtors with dollar signs in their eyes.

Frozen. I started off many years ago with original, then switched to strawberry. Right now I'm on a fruity cycle, Mango at Baja Betty's, Passionfruit at Islands, and Wild Berry Swirl at On The Border.


I have yet to see an MLS sheet that says the roof is wood. Interestingly, Realtors know not to bring up that fact, and they don't. They usually leave it blank. Realtors seem to have a neat system for putting information in the MLS:

1 - Put the correct information in.
2 - If the correct information is detrimental, put N/K.
3 - If the correct information is really detrimental, leave the entry blank.
4 - If the house is a scraper, put "Needs TLC" or "Great investment property."

Yeah, in 33 years of real estate in seven states, including Illinois, and 7 years as a Realtor in Houston, I know Realtor's little tricks about wording.

And, yes, many average home buyers are stupid about homes. And Realtors don't seem to do anything to educate them, preferring just to have them sign a bunch of disclosure and disclaimer papers. Therein lies the reason for the home inspection, to educate them.

Stupidity and ignorance can be corrected through education, providing the person being educated wants to be educated, which I have found to be the case with home buyers, especially first-time home buyers. They are only too anxious for that education from someone like me.

And as I stated in my earlier post, shake shingles can be something that are mistaken for something else. We have concrete shake, Cal-Shake, and many other materials, such as metal roofs, that look very much like wood shake. As you noted in your earlier post, people like the look of wood shake, and the roof manufacturers know that. I was fooled by a metal shake roof from the ground out in Julian until I got up on the ladder and looked at it. Julian is in one of the more extreme high fire hazard areas of San Diego County.

Defects don't necessarily need to be hidden. In fact, home inspections are, for the most part, visual inspections. We rarely find hidden defects because they are, well, hidden. We disclaim hidden defects (well, those of us who carry E&O insurance do).

Home inspections typically just document the defects that are visible. The reason why we find defects that no one else does is because few other people know what those defects are. Once we find those defects, we have to educate everyone on what it means to have a home with those defects--safety hazard, fire hazard, maintenance concern, whatever. A wood roof in an area like San Diego, and virtually all of Southern California, is a fire hazard.

Yes, the seller was correct. However, as I tell my Clients, the seller, to the best of my knowledge, is not Nostradamus reincarnated, nor God, nor any other person who can see the future. And what risk the sellers might be willing to take might not be the same risk that you are willing to take. But only you can determine that. I'm just trying to provide you with enough information so that you can at least start with a good benchmark, a Ground Zero if you will, and build upon that to determine what risks you are willing to take.

All you have done in your posts is re-emphasize why a home inspection is necessary, hopefully an educational home inspection to help the Clients evaluate risks, rather than just a documentary inspection--the roof leaks.

I'm reminded of a seminar on how report writing language has changed over the years courtesy of aggressive attorneys:

First it was, "The kitchen faucet leaks."

Then it became "The kitchen faucet leaks and needs to be repaired."

Then it became "The kitchen faucet leaks and needs to be repaired by a licensed plumber."

Then it became "The kitchen faucet leaks and needs to be repaired by a licensed plumber before close of escrow."

Next generation: "The kitchen faucet leaks and needs to be repaired by a licensed plumber. Otherwise the dripping might keep you awake at night. Since you will be suffering from sleep deprivation, you might have to consult a counselor or medical specialist, possibly resulting in thousands of dollars of medical expenses or prescriptions. Your sleep deprivation might also cause your job performance to suffer, resulting in you being fired. The dripping, of course, will waste water and increase your utility bills. With your medical bills, your increased utility bills, and your having been fired from your job, you might not be able to pay your mortgage, resulting in foreclosure on your home. When that happens, please call The HomeTeam Inspection Service to inspect your new home under the I-805 bridge with the beautiful view of the San Diego River."

Several years ago, as a buyer, I put an offer on a home with a wood shake roof. I was from out of town and knew nothing about them, but I noticed they were common in the area. I asked my Realtor, she said they were common, no worries. I discovered from the home inspection that the roof had some issues, and I discovered when I applied for homeowners insurance that it was very expensive to insure and carried very high deductibles on wind/hail damage. I negotiated with the seller to reduce the sale price by 1/2 the cost of a roof. I re-roofed the first week after I moved in. Although I saw the roof was wood when I made the offer, I relied on the professionals in the transaction to help me understand what that meant. If the buyer is expected to understand all the issues, then there would be no need for the professionals to be involved. More Realtors need to step up and point out these "obvious" issues before an offer is made.

Good point, MACD.

Here in high fire hazard San Diego, there are some insurance companies that just absolutely refuse to insure wood roofs. So if a Client doesn't get a clue from me, and waits until two days before escrow is supposed to close to try to get insurance on his wood-roof home, only to find out that his company of preference either won't insure it, or charges an obscene premium to insure it, a premium that might actually pay for a new roof, then the mortgage company won't fund the loan, and escrow doesn't close. There go the dollar signs down the drain.

Realtors can only help themselves by becoming educated on specific matters as they relate to their areas so that they won't have to go through a problematic escrow, only to see escrow fail.

I'm here to help, and as a former Realtor in Houston, I like to see everyone involved in real estate transactions play nicely in the same sandbox. Unfortunately, too many Realtors in my neighborhood can't read the educational material I offer them because of the big dollar blinders on their eyes. Remember that real estate here is relatively expensive, as is the cost of living, so even Realtors, especially new ones, try everything they can think of to get the money in the short-term rather than looking at long-term success. Too many people go into real estate thinking that they can make big dollars just by sitting back and having the Clients sign a lot of disclosure/disclaimer papers, as their Realtor did to them when they just bought their house three months ago. Thusly, they are grossly unprepared, in financial terms and realistic terms, for getting started properly in real estate.