Had inspection done on a home with two AC's. The inspector wrote that the AC recommends a 35 am breaker but has a 60 amp breaker. Recommend downsizing. My buyer is concerned. I understand the dangers of a 60 amp breaker in a 35 amp breaker. But should I have an AC contractor look at it or an electrician?? The listing agent says that the higher amp was put in by builder. Should I have any concerns or is this common? Thanks

AC contractor since he has the appropriate skills to do HVAC work and electrical work. The electrician might not be well-versed in HVAC technology for that specific unit. Sometimes there is more than meets the eye, and the HVAC tech would be able to analyze everything better than the electrician.

If all they want him to do is replace a breaker, then get an electrician...an HVAC tech has no business in a breaker panel. An electrician can read the requirements on the A/C plate to determine exactly what is needed.

Sorry Russel...I totally disagree with you.

If you need servicing of any of the A/C components, then get an HVAC Tech...

Now I get to read a dissertation on how I'm wrong.

Call an HVAC technician with details on the make and model of AC you have. You should be able to get a free recommendation over the phone (keep 60, 35 needed, or either OK).

Very good advice, MACD. That's why I recommended the HVAC tech since, as I stated, he'll know more about that "specific unit," which you re-inforced by providing the make and model of AC.

HVAC techs here don't give out free recommendations on the phone, but I don't know what they do in San Antonio.

All things considered, electricians don't necessarily know everything (or even anything) about specific AC units, whereas the HVAC tech can easily get appropriate information on any specific AC unit and also understands how to hook up his AC units to electricity since that's usually a necessary part of the function.

So it looks to me that with the HVAC tech, you get two for the price of one.

Your question is in regards to electrical service, more specifically, what your local building code requires for ciruit loading and protection. get an opinion from a qualified electrician. It has nothing to do with HVAC

So as you can see, starvoyager1956, we've got conflicting opinions.

I am amazed that there seems to be some opinions that HVAC technicians don't know how to work with electricity. As a former owner of an HVAC company in Texas, and an HVAC tech myself at that time, I was, and all of our HVAC technicians were, very well qualified and licensed to install electrical circuits, work in the electric panel, pull wires, etc.

And what little HVAC work I've had done here in San Diego also indicates that the HVAC techs are suitably licensed and qualified to do electrical work.

While there might be some HVAC techs out there who do just the bare minimum, i.e., they simply take the furnace or air conditioner out and plug it in, connect the wires that already are in place, connect it to the gas pipe already there, etc., that has not been my experience. Even the installation folks at Home Depot are licensed and skilled in all aspects of doing a specific job, so if that job, such as installing a furnace, requires licensing and skills for, say, a gas furnace--electricity, gas, and proper siting--then the individual they send out has the appropirate licensing and skills. Imagine if one needed to have three people come out, perhaps at three different times, to "install" three different components (gas, electricity, and the actual hard good) for the same system. What a tremendous waste of time and resources.

Of course, while I was raised in Texas and lived there until 1993, I don't know their current standards or requirements. So perhaps call around to three HVAC outfits and see if they do electrical work. Some might only be interested in doing electrical work if they are doing the complete install; otherwise it might not be financially feasible for them.

Ever thought about calling the manufacturer of the HVAC unit?

As for those saying an electrician is not the person to call as they don't know about HVAC... they don't have to! They don't call in a dishwasher company, dispose-all company, refrigerator company, water heater company, etc., to know how to plan and wire for those items individual requirements.

Just my 2 cents.

Scott

Hey, Scott. I think there's a little difference between all the appliances you mentioned and an AC condenser. The appliances you mentioned don't have maximum and minimum ratings like the AC condenser has, and the inherent danger with an AC condenser, I think, is a little more serious than the inherent danger with a dishwasher, disposal, refrigerator, and, in some cases, even the water heater.

And if I had an electric water heater, I most likely would call the water heater company. And I've never run into a water heater company that didn't have the appropriate licenses and skills to install all the utilities that relate to its appliance.

I'm inclined to call the person whom I think would know the most about the appliance. So if a water heater has gas, electricity, and water connected to it, I'm calling the water heater company rather than the gas company. Three for the price of one. Same thing here with the AC condenser--two for the price of one with the HVAC tech.

My other concern is that since the electrician doesn't know HVAC, there is the possibility of him damaging some HVAC component while he's there and not knowing it. There is less a likelihood of the HVAC tech damaging either HVAC items or electrical items since he knows both.

Sorry Russell, I completely disagree. Dual or multitrade certification is not that common. And most plummers, gas fitters, AC techs are not licensed electricians. I've employed all of these trades and many more in both commercial and industrial settings.

The original question wasn't about problems with an HVAC unit, it was a question about electrical circuit protection.

Everyone here is missing something simple. The home has dual AC units. Single unit recommendation is 35 but as both are wired to the same breaker a 60 amp circuit should be appropiate. The builder would have had his electrician install the correct size breaker based on the recommendation of the HVAC contractor that installed the HVAC systems. If both units kicked at the same time then that 35amps circuit would blow all the time.

We can disagree, altrealtor. That's okay. However, if one thing is wrong (breaker size), there's a good possibility that other things are wrong, so I still like two-for-the-price-of-one.

All the service personnel that I've run into here and in my home state of Texas (Kingsville, Corpus Christi, Victoria, Houston, Bryan/College Station) were properly licensed and skilled at all aspects of installation for whatever they were installing. Imagine if someone scheduled the AC installation, and they showed up only to find that the electric hadn't been installed yet. What a waste of time, and money.

And for Paul, I've never seen two AC units wired to one circuit breaker. Obviously it's possible, so I would still want an HVAC tech who's properly licensed and skilled in electricity.

Ray,
I personally have never run across that either but is possible that there is a breaker in each shutoff box instead of a standard switch. There is no other reason for the builder to put in that 60amp breaker and the poster makes a point of mentioning that there were 2 ac units and the inspector only mentions replacing the one breaker. Would have thought the inspector would have referenced the other unit if it was wired seperately and had the 35amp breaker. Just a thought!

I think you might be on to something, Paul.

last couple of comments strengthens the need to be talking to an electrician. Two units on a single circuit or oversized breaker. Was a second unit added to a circuit designed for a single. Has the builder followed code?

If the AC installer comes out to install a unit and no service is pulled, he is not going to be pulling a service in my constructions. The electrician will be returning to complete his obligations.

Certainly, larger suppliers will have a compliment of trades on salary. But your going to find that the Electrician comes one day while the gas fitter comes another while the mechanical comes at yet another. Having one individual pull circuits, plumb gas, and install HVAC creates efficiencies that loose dollars.

Yes. Now we just need to decide whether the person licensed as an electrician is licensed only as an electrician or also licensed as an HVAC tech. At the very least, I'd at least call the HVAC company and let them tell me that their personnel are not licensed as electricians and that I would have to call an electrician rather than an HVAC tech.

That is quite often true in new construction. In this case, everything's already been done, so this is post-construction, where I'm still inclined to get the HVAC tech who's also licensed and skilled in all trades that apply to his equipment.

So your looking for an electrician, but your looking for them through a HVAC company. I suppose. The main point is that a qualified electrician is the requirement, as has been mentioned.

Here's what I'd be looking for in this case. If the circuit was pulled for a single unit @ 35amps, then later a secon unit was dropped onto the same circuit and the breaker increased to 60 amp, your going to be in code violation because the second unit should have been loaded onto the other phase. Secondly, neither unit now has the circuit protection it requires, a further code violation and a fire hazard. Now who would have done that? Not an electrician unless they where incompetent. I'd be thinking AC installer who conveniently found service at the adjacent unit.

Not necessarily.

When I find a problem, I try to look at the forest rather than an individual tree. The forest here includes HVAC equipment and electricity. The individual trees are the equipment and the electrical situation. So I'm going to look for someone who, in the process of examining the individual tree, might also notice something about the other trees that could affect the whole forest. Ergo, the HVAC company whose personnel understand HVAC equipment and the utilities that run them.

And there we have a possible answer, an incompetent electrician. Having been in real estate for 33 years, I can tell you that there are lots of incompetent electricians working out there, just as there are lots of incompetent (insert name of professional) working in many industries. There are also newbie personnel who sometimes forget information that they had just memorized for their licensing test last week, don't have the requisite experience in solving problems, etc.

So I'm still looking for that two-for-the-price-of-one professional who can tell me about the forest and the various trees in that forest.

Homes that have two seperate AC units are usually built that way. Rarely is the 2nd unit just added to the existing service. It would be far more economical to just add a bigger unit than to add a seperate system.

You must have very little experience if you were unaware that HVAC installers are also qualified as electricians and plumbers in regards to installing their equipment.

I have to agree with Ray in that there are incompetent electricians as well as incompetent HVAC tech and if you can not see that then you need to open your eyes.

On the contrary, I've hired, managed, trained, evaluated many trades, included electricians, and refrigertaion mechanics. Are equipment techs qualified to hook up thier own equipment?, they better be. Do you ask them to perform outside of their area of expertise?, not without risk exposure.

The original question was about branch circuit protection, not problems with an HVAC unit.

However, the branch circuit protection involved HVAC equipment, ergo, an HVAC tech who is familiar with the equipment and the utilities that run the equipment.

If it had been a light or some outlets, or even an AFCI circuit in the panel, I would have gone straight to the electrician.

If its any type of problem involving the disposal, I'm calling the disposal repair person since he knows disposals, plumbing, and electricity.

If it's any type of problem involving the dishwasher, I'm calling the dishwasher repair person since he knows dishwashers, plumbing, and electricity.

Etc.

I guess there's a reason why I go to the malls to shop; I really do like not wasting my time, energy, gas, etc., tracking down many things when one person/mall can serve all my needs.

I suppose your right. Even calling an automechanic or the local baker would eventually lead to a qualified opinion.

Seems like you just contradicted yourself. The circuit in question is specific to the AC units so that falls under the expertise of the HVAC tech.

On the contrary, I've hired, managed, trained, evaluated many trades, included electricians, and refrigertaion mechanics. Are equipment techs qualified to hook up thier own equipment?, they better be. Do you ask them to perform outside of their area of expertise?, not without risk exposure.

The original question was about branch circuit protection, not problems with an HVAC unit. [/QUOTE]

I don't think there's really a right or wrong here, just lots of options, lots of choices. I'm one who likes choices. In fact, I like choices so much that I offer six different choices for home inspections: LIST, WALK, BASIC, STANDARD, PREMIUM, and TECH. Each is targeted to a different market; each has a different price associated with it.

Options and choices are another reason why I like shopping at malls. There are lots of options and choices in a relatively small area, and I only had to park once, saving all that $3.69/gallon gas for other errands.


You seem to be upset, or at least somewhat condescending. That usually doesn't serve anyone well. If I had an electrical problem with my car, yes, I could call the automechanica, not an electrician.

Perhaps if the baker's goods gave me a nice sugar rush, meaning that those little ol' electrons in my body were really movin' this morning, yes, I might call the baker.

I think that a significant part of helping is in looking at all options and deciding, based on the information available, on which option is best. I still like the option of getting the most-skilled person to look at the forest rather than individual trees.

2 units on one circut for 70 amp rating and there is only 60 amps in the box? Bring both out and get a bid. my 2 cents I would call an electrician first and ask if they are HVAC rated.
Wait a minute; if the single unit is rated and it will never blow then reduce the breaker to the proper rating. Trick question, right?

Practice CYA:

Ask the home inspector to recommend someone (in writing) to fix the problem. That way, the liability is off YOUR back!

Scott

Scott,

I'm sure you did not mean for that post to sound as bad as it did. I'll give you another chance.

It is not our job as inspectors to recommend any one in particular to do work that needs to be done. In fact, in some instances, it can be considered unethical. You do know what ethics are, right? When I find problems, I refer to a particular type of contractor, for example, and HVAC tech in this scenario.