I am curious to know how gas lines are addressed in the purchase contract...if in fact they are addressed at all.

I know that home inspectors do not perform gas line inspections as part of their standard services. Some may so I am not making any blanket assumptions here.

My questions are...are the gas lines required or reccommended in the inspection clause of the purchase contract to be tested in your area?

Are there inspectors who automatically include this in their inspection. Do you offer it as an additional service with a separate fee?

My area has in my opinion a very screwy way of dealing with gas lines so I am hoping I get a lot of feedback from agents and inspectors so I can guage if what my area does is as off the mark as I suspect it is.

Thanks in advance!

The gas lines from the street to the meter are not required to be inspected in my area. A few inspectors add it as an option, but most don't get involved. I believe the gas company will check any line as a courtesy. Might be worth a call to inquire.

Thanks Laneman what about the inside gas lines? are they ever checked?

Are gas lines an issue in your area at all as part of the pre purchase inspections buyers ask for?

Our gas company will check for free only if you suspect a gas line leak.

The gas company here used to check all gas lines and gas-using appliances as a courtesy when real estate was transfered. I understand they now charge $25 for this service, still underpriced because of its value.

Interior gas lines are always inspected as part of my inspection and, I believe, as part of any home inspector's inspection. I believe one would be grossly negligent if one did not inspect gas lines. Understand, however, that it is a visual inspection, so it will not include gas lines that are in slabs, in walls, in inaccessible areas of the attic, etc.

Russell, when you do your visual inspection do you mean that you check for gas leaks?

Does anything in the purchase contract (to the best of your knowledge considering home inspectors are not privy to these) specifically address that the seller will provide the buyer anything certifying there are no gas leaks?

Nothing in the CAR purchase contract specifies that the seller will certify that there are no gas leaks. That's why home inspections and, in some cases, gas company inspections are necessary.

When I do my visual inspection, I also use all my senses. If I smell something interesting, I track it down. If I hear something interesting, I track it down. Etc. And since every gas company that I know of adds odorizers to the gas so that one can smell a gas leak, they are fairly easy to detect, even without a gas detector.

Corrosion/rust? Possible gas leak.

Dissimilar material connection? Good chance for a leak, if not now, then sometime in the future.

Lots of beautiful purple/green flies around? Current gas leak.

Hissing sound? Current gas leak (or a German cockroach or a snake).

A visual inspection doesn't preclude one from using all one's senses, but when one uses a non-visual sense to detect something, then one has to go "see" where or what the problem is.

Due to E&O insurance considerations, though, I don't use $500 gas detectors during my typical inspections because I try to do in a few hours everything that a normal homeowner might do in the course of a normal day using normal methods and user controls. It is highly unlikely that a normal homeowner would have a $500 gas detector in his tool kit with the screw driver and hammer.

However, I also offer five different levels of inspections, at five different prices: LIST, BASIC, STANDARD, PREMIUM, and TECH. For my PREMIUM and TECH inspections, I do bring out the special tools. The price on those two inspections are much, much higher, and the only people who take me up on those are re-locating buyers who will not be at the inspection and the super rich (i.e., sports, movie, and recording stars).

In my area gas lines have always been included in the contact as a requirement of the seller to certify to the buyer.

For many many years long before the days of home inspectors this was accomplished by the seller having a licensed plumber perform a complete pressure test of the service line (curb to meter) and the inside lines. If leaks were found they had to be repaired by the seller right away. Not usually a negotiable repair the seller could get out of and the property could not close without plumber cert that the repairs were made and the property is gas leak free.

This required inspection and subsequent repairs obviously resulted in a "burden" put on the seller. What if the whole service line needed dug out and replaced...this could easily be a $1,000.00 repair. Which did not include the cost to replace destroyed grass and landscaping, sidewalks etc. Service line leaks are very common in areas that experience freezing and thawing so it was not uncommon for a seller to suddenly be faced with an unexpected repair that he had to pay on the spot. Back then plumbers didn't go for the wait til closing to get paid ploy. They wanted cash on the barrellhead period and in my opinion rightfully so. Needless to say this caused a HUGE uproar and a lot of blown deals. The complaints flew among agents who were constantly plagued by this problem. Finally since agents could not think of a way to get around this undue hardship caused by plumbers it became the "practice" for agents to accuse plumbers of fraud when a leak was found. Did it matter that another plumber could easily find the leak because it truly existed? No. Some committe was formed and the outrage finally got the area board of realtors to make changes in the contract to "protect the seller against unscrupulous plumbers". While the plumbers were busy defending themselves and feeling they were the scapegoat and grumbling amongst themselves one plumbing company came up with a so called brilliant idea and "invented" something called a gas line warranty.

How this worked is no inspection of ANY kind would be performed to the gas lines by anyone....not even the gas company or the plumber who sold the warranty. The seller would buy a piece of paper (the warranty) over the phone and present it to the buyer at closing. If the buyer after moving in discovered a gas leak somehow then the warranty would cover the repair. Okay on it's face I guess it seems practical....BUT as a result all that was happening was a work around to sell houses with gas leaks. Was the buyer told the warranty was all he was getting and NO inspections of any kind were performed or will be performed? No. Was the buyer told that the possibility a gas leak could be present when he signed the papers but with his acceptance he waived the right to know beforehand? No. Was he told that any inspections to find out would be at his own expense once he moved in? No. Was he told that if the sidewalk or the driveway or the beautiful landscaping had to be destroyed in the process of fixing a leak would be at his own expense to repair? No. Was he led to believe that this piece of paper protected him and his family? Yes.

The purchase of gas line warranties from sellers to buyers became REQUIRED in the contract. Gone was the inspection language...gone was the free from leaks language gone was the licensed plumber certification language. All replaced by a piece of paper with the false representation to the buyer that the gas lines were "fine".

Oh by the way the plumbing company who dreamed up the abomination was now raking in the dough because they had the market cornered. What agent in their right mind would still insist on doing the old way when this way was soooooo much more "efficient". What agent would insist their seller (for the sake of not wanting the buyer and his kids to blow up) would ask them to take a chance at having to shell out thousands when all he had to do was pay $50.00 for a warranty and be done with it.

Home inspectors in this area do NOT perform gas leak checks of any kind unless they are specifically hired to include this at an additional cost. Any inspector daring to go in a house with a gas detector without being specifically hired to do so and took it upon himself to do it was immediately rode out on a rail. "how dare you go in there and look for something wrong that you were not asked by me to look for". Buyers don't protest...why would they.

Am I the only one who can't see the potential danger of this practice? Since the start of 2006 3 home explosions in this immediate area occurred because of gas line leaks. One occurred just a day or two before Christmas..it reduced that home to splinters and the entire area had to be evacuated. How protected would they have been by a warranty?

This entire sham was the product of greed and better serving the client by creating a more efficient (less expensive and quicker dash to the closing table) experience for both the buyer and seller.

Yet this sham has been alive and well since the late 70's and continues to this day.

That is why I asked how things are done in other areas of the country. As far as I know my immediate area is the only place on the planet that does this.

Any opinions or feedback is greatly appreciated.

Other than the fact that I would agree with you, I can't say too much else other than, "Wow."

:rolleyes: wow? that's all I get??? c'mon Russell I've read your posts they are as long as mine are at times.....Please elaborate the 'wow'? Is this concept screwy? brilliant?? Don't leave me hanging with a wow

Screwy.

Or perhaps the ultimate in brilliant marketing.

I still tend to go with screwy, though.

And I've spent a lot of time in marketing/advertising in the past 40 years.

Still go with screwy, though.

Other than that, I just can't seem to make this post much longer.

Thanks Russell...I just wanted to know if anyone thought this was as "out there" as I do.

In our area, if an inspector will not perform as a basic service, an interior gas line check with their sniffer, they'd be scratched off many agents list IMHO.
From the meter to the street is the city utilities responsibility, and they will come out and check if there is suspicion.
Kathy578, I think your story is really “out there”.

Isn't it amazing how things are so different from one area to the next?

Agents in this area are not monitored for ethics violations or fair comsumer practices because the buyer is left so far out of the loop and rarely knows interesting information like what I have described.

When the board of realtors says do it this way and even creates purchase contracts to require it be done this way...how can we really blame the agent. Clearly they are getting pressure from above.

Pikes Peak:

I assume that by sniffer you mean "nose"...as in The part of the human face or the forward part of the head of other vertebrates that contains the nostrils and organs of smell and forms the beginning of the respiratory tract?

You don't mean that you take a $500 specialized tool into each and every inspection do you? Just looking for clarification on the SOP in my area...thanks.

I was talking about any kind of "Single Gas Detection Instrument", such as from Scott Instruments (Tyco) or others.
I'm a Realtor, not inspector. Every inspector I know uses these type of gas detectors.

Every Inspector I have worked with uses one of those when doing the furnace and water heater check. Most also do the meter as well and if a problem is found they say "call the gas company"

The gas company in my area uses a highly technical instrument when checking for gas leaks. They carry a bottle of soapy water, spray it on connections, and wait to see if it bubbles! I kid you not, I have witnessed it myself many times. (probably better than striking a match)

Sometimes the most effective methods don't involve high technology. Soapy water and bubbles is a very effective and time-tested method that any homeowner can use. And it works every time.

If the $500 gas detectors are damaged or otherwise not working properly, they can fail to detect a leak.

The irridescent blue/green flies are another time-tested, fail-safe method. If you see a lot of them close to a gas pipe, you've got a leak.

I can see it now: You have heard of Canaries in Mines, how about iridescent blue/green flies in a jar for Home Inspectors.

I already tried to find a supply. Even Petco doesn't carry them. I was so disappointed. Fortunately, they are quite prevalent throughout the United States, and they can detect that gas leak from miles away.

soapy water on interior house lines will help pinpoint a leak and is very commonly used after the pressure test indicates a leak exists. "sniffers" can give false readings at times so it's best that the plumber have more than one detection method.

Gas plumbing is a specialty field and in my opinion should be left up to those specifically trained and licensed in that trade. A home inspector is not a specialist he/she is a generalist and by federal law can not perform a lot of the testing that goes beyond soap bubbles and gas sniffers and looking for blue bottle flies. I had a gas leak in the main line in my yard...no flies...no smell..the soil had filtered out the odorant added by the gas company before it reached the surface. This leak would never have been detected until a pressure test was performed on the service line. Service lines in the yard are the responsibility of the home owner in my area. Thankfully the gas company was doing a spot check on my street and found it which I had to pay to be repaired and be without gas service for a couple of days.

Point being:
I think ANY detection method is better than none. When I started this thread I wanted to point out that a gas leak check is discouraged in my area by a majority of real estate agents and in its place a "warranty" was invented to alleviate the expense of gas leak repairs the seller had to pay pre-closing.

Home inspectors do not perform these inspections as part of the standard inspection. In my area anyway. It's an extra service the buyer must specifically ask for. Not many buyers KNOW to ask for one if they are told by their agent that there is a gas line warranty is in place.

What they fail to tell the buyer is that the warranty was issued without an inspection and by accepting this piece of paper (AKA warranty) paid for by the seller they could very well be buying a house full of gas leaks.

Nothing will happen (changes made) until a family is blown to kingdom come (it already happened in Texas to an entire family that was killed on the very day they were moving in).

At least there is a chance a home buyer might read this and give it some serious thought. Enough thought that they hire a gas line plumber to do a pressure test from the curb to the meter and then from the meter to the interior lines. In my area it costs about 75.00-150.00.

I'm not familiar with any federal law that has anything at all to do with home inspectors or home inspection licensing.

There are some states that license and/or regulate home inspectors, but even they typically don't state what we cannot do. They only state what we are to do. How we go about doing that is up to each individual home inspector. Some retired HVAC techs working as home inspectors will have the latest and greatest technical equipment. Others of us are true generalists, leaving the technical stuff to the licensed professionals.

One can always go above and beyond any standards of practice, just like builders can exceed the various codes. Standards and codes are minimums, not maximums.

It really depends on what the state statutes say about licensing in licensed professions, what home inspector trade association standards of practice say, and what various courts have said in various lawsuits that have been published to create case law.

Russell
I was referring to gas line plumbers. Not home inspectors.

Gas line plumbers have to be DOT (federal not state)operator qualified to touch a service line/meter set. From street to house (meter).

A home inspector or anyone else for that matter who isn't specifically qualified can not do a pressure test on a gas line. Therefore a sniffer for a service line is useless.

I'll re-read my post. I don't know how you came to the assumption I was referring to home inspectors.

Hey, Kathy.

I might have misread your post. Sorry.

Do you have a reference for that DOT requirement, though, for gas line plumbers?

Anyone out here can do a simple pressure test on a gas line, including homeowners who simply want to save money. The question is, who considers it valid? Why was it done? Is it repair work that needs a code inspection? Even general handymen from South of the Border here can do a simple pressure test. They can also make repairs and build things. However, their work has to be inspected by a code inspector.

So I'm still confused about your claim about a federal law. I would like to read it if you know of a link. I haven't been able to google anything up, but I didn't try extremely hard just how.

I was talking about home inspectors being very limited in what they can (in terms of gas lines) do because of certain regulations in place.

Okay, but I think it has more to do with trade association standards of practice than any legal regulations. Certainly, case law will play a part because the HI industry is so young and there are a lot of cases making their ways through the court system.

The regulations are published in the Code of Federal Regulations, 49 CFR Parts 190-199

For more info you may want to contact your area gas utility office. Each state has different programs.

Thanks, Kathy.

I just love people who are as helpful as you are.

Hope it helps!

I agree with laneman in this issue; the same here. If you are interested in the equipment used by special inspections, there is a good site for equipment called Professional Equipment.com , but this is one of many.