Recently a agent showed me a house which was originally listed at the price of 840K and relisted after some time at the price of 790k. I decided to buy the house and asked the agent to write an offer. She said there must be another offer offering the same price as the listing price so we better give a offer of 800K. I agreed. The second day, the agent came to me said she talked to the listing agent and the listing agent told her he already got 2 offers. So she asked me to raise the offer to 820K. I trusted her and agreed and signed the offer letter. As expected my offer was soon accepted.

Oh, there were some detail I felt suspicious. at the time I signed the offer letter, she gave me the owner's disclosure package. I wondered where she got the package before an offer was made? I asked her where she got it and was told she got it from the listing agent.

After my office was accepted and an careful inspection of the disclosure and the house, I found the house has many problems. I felt my agent is not on my side, she only cares about the quick close of the deal so she can get her money, she gave me false information to boost the offer price so it could be accepted without doubt.

Here are my questions:

1) Dose a selling agent allow to contact the listing agent for info about bidders?

2) If I prove she lied to us (about her talking to the listing agent), can I sue her?

Your prompt help is greatly appreciated.

Have a nice day!

Eric

Eric,
At least in my area the seller disclosure's are readily available before an offer is even made.

The listing agent most likely called your agent for feedback after the showing and to say there were offers coming in on the property so if you wanted to make an offer to do it soon. Your agent upon learning this and being told you wanted to write an offer said if you really want this better make it 10K over list. You obviously agreed to this.

The sellers agent called back upon getting your offer telling your agent tthat there were already 2 offers on the property.

So whose Idea was the additional raise to 820K? Did your agent suggest that number or did the agent ask how badly you wanted the house? You obviously wanted the house cause you raised the offer to the 820K.

Did the disclosure list the problems or was it an inspection that found the problems? I find it strange that an agent would not mention unusual items listed on a disclosure because if a problem is known in advance it can be dealt with either with a repair ammendment of a price reduction. Did you notice these problems when you viewed the house? Did the inspector feel the sellers would have to have known of the issues? Exactly what false information did your agent give you?

Regarding 1. Not sure exactly what you are asking the way it is worded.
Regarding 2. Based on what you have said there is really no way you can prove your agent lied to you because it does not appear the agent did based on what you have said in your post.

Thank you Paul for the reply.

It was my agent who raised the offer to 820K one day after I agreed on 800K. It was unlikely that she really contact the listing agent to ask the number of bidders. I will ask the listing agent to find out.

There is major problem with the foundation. She didn't mention that to me before making the offer. Only when I read the disclosure package did I find the problem.

Eric

In my opinion, with a purchase of this magnatude, you should have read all of the disclosures before putting in an offer at all. I do not work with these high priced homes. I do agree the your agent should have told you to read the disclosures. But there is the saying
"Buyer Beware"

Eric,
Your agent cannot raise the offer, only you can do that as it is your offer! An agent can suggest an offer but in the end it is your decision. I never suggest an offer I always give my buyers the facts and let them decide how much they would like to offer. I will advise them if it is too low or too high and I use my CMA to show them the range.

Did your agent do a CMA on this property? If so what was the value and did you feel the comps were similiar?

Did you call your agent and ask why she failed to bring the foundation problem to your attention before you made your original offer? If not perhaps you should ask? If Yes what was her answer.

The listing agent is simply going to tell you to talk to your agent as you are not his client!

If your agent has not done the CMA, did not read the seller disclosures or worse failed to bring a major foundation problem to your attention before you made your original offer then perhaps you should speak with her broker because she is not fulfilling her duty to you.

Hi All

Thank you all for the great info.

The fact is my agent didn't give me CMA before we signed the offer. During the meeting when she asked me to sign the offer she already prepared, she bring the disclosure package to me and said "just initial the index page, and after you sign the offer you have plenty time reading the whole package."

I have not asked why she failed to bring the foundation issue to my attention.

did your agent put in a contigency of the accepted contract based on what the insoection revealed?If not that should have been in there so that upon your findings you could either renegotiate the purchase price or terminate the contract.

I would like to ask. Before you signed the offer/counter-offer. Didn't she/he have the offering price before you sign, so that you could see the what you/agent was submitting to the other side?

What I don't understand is why your agent didn't include a provision in the contract to see any competing benchmark offers to prove in fact you weren't being duped into paying more?

Why was there no escalator clause in the contract that allowed you to pay a certain number over the next highest offer. I mean, any listing agent can say what they want. Your agent should probably have done more than just BELIEVE what the listing agent said, just to get more money out of you.

Ask your agent why there was no provision in the contract stating that you wanted the right to see the next highest benchmark offer considering how much more the asking price got bumped.

It's rather too late in the day, I'm afraid, but I'm willing to bet that your agent was a sub-agent (i.e. working for the seller) rather than a Buyer Agent (i.e. working for you).
Our industry has a somewhat tarnished public reputation and small wonder when this kind of ill service is inflicted on an all too unsuspecting buyer.
You have a right to complain to the local real estate board, but the likelihood of some appropriate recompense isn't, I suspect, going to be too high.
However, given the amount of money you're talking, it might do no harm to consult with a lawyer, if only to see if he can put the fear of God into the agent and her broker. In my view, it's the very least she deserves!

Duncan

You can sue anybody you want as far as your chances to win or if you have legitimate cause you must consult an attorney .I do not think there are any here qualified to give you that advice.If I gave you legal advice ?You could probably sue me so I dare not even indicate any legal expertise.And as far as this post it means absolutly nothing and has acomplished just that.Nothing....

{In my view, it's the very least she deserves!}Ouch !!!! Duncan How can you say that you only have heard one side of it?
Quote ( But there is the saying
"Buyer Beware")Yes there is but as realtors we are held to a certain Standard of treating all parties fairly and honestly and full disclosure.However the public does need to read and ask questions as far as who is representing.I expect one day there will be a requirment for agents to read out loud a miranda style info packet explaining buyer agency and the option and the possible consequences of opting out and self representatation.As if we dont have enough regulations .But this may be a necessary one in the future.As to if it will work or not who knows.

-Some agents just plain dont know how to negotiate, period! and buyers need to be aware that you have the option of saying let's stick to the original offer price and see what comes out of it. a good agent will get in contact with the Listing Agent and negotiate on behalf of the clients to possibly try to get the home they want.
let the listing agent Counter your offer.
(from EXP, if they have less than 5 offers, they will most likely counter you, I have had offers which had like 50 other offers in which case maybe the 10 best offer will be countered.)

-communication between listing and the possible
selling agent is key to a successfull transaction.
this avoid problems..

1. Yes possible selling agent can asked how many offers the seller had received
2. How can you proved that your agent lied to you if you signed the contract? I am not a lawyer but I can pretty much say the judge will say, " isn't this your signature?" in court..
Read and ask question before you signed anything to avoid complication. if you dont understand, get third party opinion or take someone with you who may understand the ever getting complicated RE contracts.

My best bet is that you and your agent just communicated poorly.

When I find out that there are multiple offers coming in on a property that my Buyers want, then I let them make the decision on how much they want to offer. If they want to purchase it for more than the listing price then they need to decide how much more. Also, I tell them.. if it is meant to be then it will work in your favor. If not, then there are other homes out there that would be better for you.

Thank you guys for reply.

I think you guys are honest.

Newbie--I can understand your concern and frustration, however, before you're too quick to blame your agent consider that there might be good, vaild, and legal reasons why the your agent had the disclosures before you signed the contract. Example: I always give the prospective Buyer the property condition disclosure at the time that I write an offer. Doing so afterwards is too late! IN NYS--where I live--if the property condition disclosure is not given to the prospective buyer "prior to the signing a binding contract", the seller will have to pay the Buyer $500 at closing. Even if I'm representing the buyer, knowing this, I have an ethical duty to present it to the buyer. Off hand, I can think of two good reasons: 1) fair and honest dealing to all parties. 2) My own competence and duty to do due diligence.

Also, an inspection contingency should allow you to walk away and keep your escrow money if an inspection uncovers something of the sort you describe--a serious foundation problem. Or, you could always renegotiate at that point for a lower price or for the repairs to be made.

Also, you need to remember that real estate agents are not home inspectors or engineers. If we know of a problem, we have to disclose it, but we can't be expected to prevent other people from lying to us, or to uncover latent problems, or even to understand that something visible is or is not a serious problem. That's why a good agent always recommends a home inspection.

As for multiple offers, I've heard of agents getting into trouble for NOT informing prospective buyers of their existence. How would you know, without a doubt, to make your best and highest offer without that knowledge? And frustratingly, the selling agent cannot disclose the amount of the other offers to me, even if I ask. To do so would be a violation of that agent's fiduciary responsibility to the seller, a violation of confidentiality.

If she only speculated that there were other offers, that's a different story. You can't just make stuff up as you go along. It's called lying.

There's also something called Buyer's remorse. Might you be experiencing that?

Did the agent inform you, based on cold hard CMA's, that you were or were not in the right ballpark? Did the property appraise or did you have to reach into your pocket and pay cash out of hand in order to cover that part of the purchase price that was over the appraised value? If so, maybe yuou did pay too much. Whether or not that was the agent's fault is a discussion you'll need to have with an attorney.

Whatever, good luck to you.

I just got my license and dont have alot of experiance, but I feel that I must provide my opinion here.

If I were in your agents position I would make sure that I had the sellers disclosure BEFORE we made an offer. Especially for a transaction of the size that you are talking about. so it is reasonable that your agent had this documentation.

The part I Have a problem with is what I quoted above. I am assuming this is relating to the sellers disclosure form. I would NEVER advise someone to "just initial the index page" for any transaction let alone for a major transaction like you are speaking about. That would just open me up to POTENTIAL liability, and is not in MY client's best interest. Now in Florida it is not typical to work as subagents anymore, and must be disclosed if that is the case. Because of this type of thing. So I am assuming that the agent was representing you. In Florida we are required in all cases to "Use Skill, Care, and Diligence" in all transactions. In my opinion, im not an attorney so this is NOT legal advice, not asking to see the sellers disclosure before signing an offer is a failure in this department, as is telling a client to just sign and not read this disclosure.

Of course you should always insist on reading anything that you sign. You did agree to sign the higer offer as you stated at the beginning of your post. If you felt that that offer was too much you could have stuck to your first offer. the final decision is always yours, NOT YOUR AGENT'S.

The determination of if you could sue is for an attorney to make so I would not expect an anwser to that one here.


Good luck to you.

Pardon me if I missed this, but I don't recall seeing any mention of the terms of the home inspection. Generally, an offer is contingent on the results of the home inspection. Therefore, if your inspector found major foundation problems, one would think at this point you could either withdraw or re-negotiate for a better price. A call to a real estate attorney in your area might be well worth the fee charged. Good luck!

Eric,
The disclosure packet that you mention is not the standard (in CA. at least) lead paint, flood zone, Magan's law stuff, but the actual FULL DISCLOSURE document? The standard stuff is avalible all the time and fits all res deals. If your agent had the rest of the scoop I would wonder how, and ask. What you say makes me think that your agent might have been working for the sellers, but that might just be the way it reads.

Good Luck!

Ugly, ugly…Even if her agent was working for the seller, she still has a professional duty to the "buyer customer". Either way, she must disclose her role in the transaction and all defects of the home (that the seller has disclosed to her or on paper). I’m wondering if the agent even read the disclosures herself. If the foundation issue is on the disclosure, I don’t believe that item can play a role in re-negotiating the deal.

I wish there was something in place that as a buyers agent you could truly verify that there is indeed multiple offers… When you are a buyer’s agent and you inform your buyer that the listing agent said there are multiples, I sometimes wonder if they think you’re giving them a line of b.s. Do you all think it would be too forward of us to ask the listing agent, “WHO” ?? J

Everyone made great points about full disclosure
and your ability to back out during the inspection period. REALTORS are not engineers, and that's why you should hire a qualified inspector.

I'm always amazed when someone wants to sue... ya know, if I were spending $820,000 you can bet I would review EVERYTHING and hire the best inspector.

As for the price, I guess you'd also sue if you lost buying the house... I can hear you now... "My agent didn't tell me that $5,000 more would have locked in the deal..."

Amazing....

Here we pass out the seller disclosure sheet at first viewing of any property. No offer gets submitted without having the potential buyer signing and acknowledging the receipt thereof. This may or may not be filled out honestly. Something wrong could have been there before the current owner's purchased it and they honestly haven't noticed. Other problems could be something they've lived with, don't consider a problem and don't think anyone else would either. And then again, they could have glossed over the problem hoping nobody would notice.

If the potential buyer asks my knowledge of problems, I explain that I'm no inspector and they should certainly hire a professional. Now if there's something obvious like a broken window, I'll say so. But if they ask my opinion of the roof or why is the basement wall cracked, that's out of my territory. Again, a certified, licensed home inspector like the contract calls for. That's the only way you'll have recourse should you find a problem. For example, a family member who once worked for the heating company may know systems inside and out but his opinion won't stand at the bargaining table. Worse yet, if he messes something up in the home, the buyer is busted and the lawsuit is on for all of us.

Other offers, upping your offer and so on... the amount of the offer is 100% up to the buyer at all times. We can make suggestions on what should be done of course but we've no right to fill in a figure and run with it. Here we never know what the other offers were, we've no right to ask and the other agents are bound to not tell. They can say another offer is being considered. Possibly true, we have no real way to know. And yes, deals have been lost and the winner may have purchased the home you wanted for a few dollars more. You may have purchased the home for thousands of dollars more than another offer. But that's the game.

Real estate in the end is a game. Seller lists their house, buyer makes an offer. The ball goes back and forth until a truce is declared in the middle or one side stops playing. But remember, while any agent is looking out for their paycheck, they should first be looking out for your best interests.

I have dealt with multiple offer scenarios several times in the past. That is when your agent should tell you that there are multiple offers and you should make your best and final offer based on how bad you want it. You should of had the sellers disclosures prior to that. And not being mean here but you just initial or sign without reading? Did your agent advise you to have your lawyer look it over first? That is something I always tell my clients. If there is multiple offers on a property I am bidding on for a client what I do is call and inform the other agent that I am in the process of writing an offer on the property. If they tell the seller that multiple offers are coming in they may wait on your offer in case its higher. In KS we can tell agents that there are multiple offers, but we have a duty to not tell prices. Sometimes it works in your favor sometimes not. You should always read forms word for word before you sign. Especially when your dealing with that much money.

Hi,

To throw my two cents in.. There have been some excellent points here.

1) No one should write an offer without reading the disclosure. Any agent that does not make every effort to get the disclosure to the client early should be penalized. At the very least it is unprofessional and can only leave the general public with a bad image of our profession.

2) Show other offers to the buyers agent? No way!There is no law in KS that a realtor has to show them. Most agents would just laugh at that request. Don't complicate things. If you believe the other agent is bluffing call their bluff. Write YOUR best offer. Any professional will know enough about their local market to know what is a fair offer.

Our job is to supply all the information we can so that our clients can confidently make informed decisions.

Even when we do everything right things still can go wrong.

Steve K. I am a little confused by your post. Are you saying no way to a buyers agent in response to my post or just in general. What you said is right. You DO NOT if you are a sellers agent give any information as to what any offers are. Not just price but terms or any of it. I put in an offer for a foreclosure once that there was multiple offers on it. The company had a form to sign for the buyers that said there is a multiple offer scenario and that you were to make your best and final offer. Also welcome to the board Steve.

I would have a chat with the agent's Broker.. And tell him / her what you feel happened and so forth. Did you not have a contingency regarding the home inspection in the sales offer?

I do not feel like anyone should be attacking you, saying this is YOUR fault as it is YOUR offer. Yes, it is you that makes the final decision but that is why you hired your agent- to help you, represent you, and do whats best for you, and make your real estate transaction a happy one.

Yes, it is technically your responsibility to check the condition of the house, but the agent DOES share that responsibility. In my area, the agent can be sued just for not making a resonable effort to find the condition of the house.

But more importantly, any agent that does not automatically decide this as one of their duties I would feel sorry for any client that got stuck with them. I always make sure I find out the condition of the property or make it extremely clear that the buyer needs to get a home inspection, always!!

Here are my questions:

1) Dose a selling agent allow to contact the listing agent for info about bidders?


Sure.


2) If I prove she lied to us (about her talking to the listing agent), can I sue her?


Sure.


footnote:
short answers are best

Hi Eric,

Did you sign an agency ageement with the agent? Did the agent inform you of who she is representing in this purchase? Was the change in pricing (counter offer) done at the first submission of your offer because you've mentioned a day two occurance?
Claudia

Hi Paul,

We ought to be a little cautious here in concluded intentions, I am almost certain that there is another side to this story. And, I cannot imagine that an agent would not check the disclosure/disclaimer statement for latent defects, etc! Further, Eric was saying something about that another counter was made on the second day and never in detail explained when the original offer was submitted. Was that new $820 price an official counter? There are to many agents here willing to make judgements without the entire info resulting in a possible lawsuit/complain against that agent. There may be no cause just a lack of info provided by the buyer. I found your reply appropriate and fact finding but that is the difference between an agent and a broker as we know.

We do realize this is a two year old thread.....??

Hey this is an easy one to moderate! Noone ever posts here for some reason. Lets come up with something new to talk about!