Several people that have reviewed my website have suggested I lose the frames. Why are they considered a negative? I don't have a tech background, so I would love this question answered. I have considered switching to Advanced Access, but I think they also use frames. I do know that their websites are frequestly at the top of searches. I really like my website provider, but I have to get leads or why bother having it, and I don't get leads. Thanks everyone. Have a wonderful day.

Frames can be a problem in that if provisions have not been made for search engines to access the rest of your site - search engines may think you have just a one page website. That seems to be what is happening in your case- which is why people are telling you to lose the frames.

Advanced Access uses frames but their main entry page is not framed which allows search engines to spider the site. That is not what causes some of their sites to rank well though.

Some Advanced Access sites do rank well - simply because they have traded a lot of links with other sites over the years and Advanced Access's system causes search engines to not count the reciprocal links back - so they effectively have just one-way links which fools search engines into thinking the sites are more valuable than they really are.

It is usually just AA sites that have been around for a long time that rank well since most knowledeable webmasters will not trade links with them anymore - making it hard for new sites to duplicate the success of the old sites.

Here's a good read from usability expert Jakob Nielsen:

Why Frames Suck (Most of the Time)

That covers pretty much everything. Another good example... find a popular website, corporate, commercial, or ortherwise that uses frames.

Not exactly a timely article to quote.

"The November 1996 browser statistics from Interse show the following distribution of browser usage:
Netscape 2: 13% of users
Netscape 3: 47% of users
Internet Explorer 3: 28% of users
Other browsers or earlier versions: 13% of users"

Here's the breakdown of browsers hiting my site from 6,476 unique visitors in March 2005.

MS Internet Explorer 86 %
Netscape 5.1 %
Firefox 3.8 %
Unknown 2.7 %
Safari 1 %
Mozilla 1 %
(the rest were less than 1%)

My site, www.KnoxvilleMLS.com has used frames from day 1 and consistantly ranks very high in most search engines.

My webmistress and search engine optimazation guy work closely together to keep me up there.

Today if you use the most searched for real estate keyword set for my area; "Knoxville real estate" my site ranks 3rd in an organic search of Google and 1 & 2 with MSN.

I like the frames because they keep visitors on your site while looking at other pages and links.

IT is very possible to get and keep high search engine rankings with frames sites.

The point is that frames have been bad since 1996.

Considering SERPs are determined by many factors it's hard to say whether or not frames have really helped or hurt your ranking. Which keyword(s) do you rank highly for?

I suppose that answers my previous question.

This is one of those things that goes against the basic principle of the web (Each page should have a unique cooresponding URL). When a user clicks on a link it should open in the current window, not a new window. It's expected that when you click on a link you will be taken to that site. When a user clicks on a link in a framed page, they end up viewing an external site all the while still stuck on your page. If you want people to keep looking at your site you should give them a better reason than the technicalities of using frames.

Is it possible to get high rankings with a framed page? Yes. Is it harder than a non framed page? Yes.

See what google has to say about frames:

If you're still not convinced that frames are no good, consider this:

1. When I view your page and click on the link "Moving in" I find some great information. Let's say I want to bookmark this for later viewing. However when I bookmark the page I actually bookmark http://www.knoxvillemls.com, rather than the page which contains the information I'm actually interested in.

2. Let's say that I search for Knoxville history and find your page. (http://knoxvillemls.com/history.htm). Wow, I like this site, but I don't see any navigation (I'm the average novice web user here). I don't know what the sites called, I can't find my way around. Oh well. I'll just click back and keep searching.

Frames are bad for bookmarks, emailing links, users who enter your site without entering through the main page, search engines indexing your site, internal PR and overall usability.

Show me something better that brings in more business for my investment in my market area and I might be convinced.

BTW, you might want to review the guestbook lots of visitors have signed saying how much they liked the site.

Not one complaint about frames (teasing). :p

I'm also not unhappy about the number of buyers that contact me as a direct result of that framed website.

There is hardly a week that goes by that I don't have to refer at least 1 or more buyers to another agent in the office because I'm too busy to work with them.

I agree with RealtyPresence about frames, they can be used but it's kind of like, well you can also technically tow a ski boat with a V6 Chevy but it isn't necessarily the best thing to do.


And on the subject of having other people's sites framed within yours, just be careful, along with the points RP noted, you can also be looked upon as violating copyright of other people's content since to the average web user you are "presenting" it as yours.

-J

Converting your site to a non-framed version would probably be pretty easy, and given the benefits I don't see why you wouldn't want to do so.

I also have to ask...

What's with the java based links? Any reason why you're not just using plain HTML and images?

Google is a mystery in lots of ways, but clear in others. Many SEO professionals are still playing with tricks and quick fix strategies. Here is a link, easy and basic. http://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html Notice the comment about "frames." Why buck the system? Frames are easy to replace with normal html,
And for those folks that are a little upset with poor results online blog here: http://websitefrustrated.blogspot.com

rk

There are many outdated and poor coding practices, frames are one. The problem with poor coding is that we are in the middle of an information explosion and soon there will be a high demand for web sites rendering on many different devices such as PDAs and cell phones. Standards such as CSS and Xhtml will make it possible. If you are building a web site today or are considering a makeover then why not future proof it by using standards.

Where do you get this BS from? I can show you AA sites that are doing well that are relatively new. Once they get out of the sandbox, they can rank as well as anyone else.

Many sites have AA links that show as backlinks. Please get your information correct before you wreck havoc on innocent webmasters, who btw, send a lot of homepage links to Epowered so you can promote your Homegain pages (www.epoweredprofessionals.com/glendale/ ) instead of agents.

There is a simple answer to your question. But first let me say there are framed sites that do well in the SEs. That doesn't mean that frames will help you. Several people here have posted defending frames but not one single poster has come forth with an advantage for using frames or has suggested that frames will help you in any way in the search engines.

The answer to your question is another question. Why purchase a framed site that will not help you or offer any advantages when there are alternatives that will provide advantages for both users and search engines?

From a practical view it is much safer and productive to have a web site built on standards with correct semantic markup. This way your web site will be both user and SE friendly, accessible to a greater number of people and usable with a broad range of web devices.

Thanks to everyone for your thoughtful responses. Your help is appreciated. I recently switched website providers and am now using Advanced Access. I am in a trial period, but so far I am happy with them, and plan to keep using them. This wasn't a hasty decision. I took many things into account before I signed on, including customer service, the look and navigation aspect of the website, their templates, reports, etc.

Then let me be perfectly clear. A properly designed frameset can be optimized to a far greater degree than a single page, giving one an advantage with a search engine like Google. In today's world, that is really the only advantage, but if you know what you are doing, its a big advantage. In the right hands, a frameset will do better in Google.

Your statement is clear, but is not supported. I don't buy it. You make a statement that it is better but do not explain how or give any references or any support of any type except you word for it. You say "if you know how to do it" well tell us, give some examples or are they "trade secrets." Sounds like snake oil to me. Provide some suppot or references. Certainly, if what you say is true other "experts" have discovered it and writen about it. I mentioned the advantages of css/xhtml, I can point to hundreds of sources to support what I say, but usually don't need to because most knowledgeable web developers are in agreement. That is not the case with your statement re: a frameset.