Your Not Alone...There are many misconceptions about Search Engine Optimization


We often have, what I refer to as drive-by discussions on search engine optimization on this and many other forums on the net. I wanted to start a factual discussion so questions can be answered with data instead of inuendo I recently started sharing in another very large Realtor group and was quite frankly amazed at some of the advice that was being offered as factual. If implemented unknowingly, such things would all but insure that the sites were never seen or heard from again

If you are anything like the vast majority of website owners you read much of what us seo types say in the internet and say to yourself, why in the world would I need Search Engine Optimization. My web designer built me a great site and submitted it to all the search engines already... sound familiar?

Myth # 1
Ok, so now I got a website made by good designer or template system..., I can just sit and relax, people will find my web site and my business will grow like it has never before. [aka. If you make it, they will come]

This is one of the biggest myths that people have about Internet. Like any other form of business, one also need to understand that web site also needs marketing - without proper marketing it is useless to have a web site - irrespective if the web site is made for getting more business or customer support or both.

For example, you are own hotel. Now the next thing you think about is doing some form of advertising about your hotel to create awareness among your potential clients. If you do not do any form of advertising, then you cannot really expect to make much or any profit from your hotel and it might prove to be a loss as an investment. Same thing applies to websites, when marketed effectively, they can prove very beneficial, but still below things that needs to be taken care for the success of any online of offline business:

Company Image
Proper form of marketing
Quality product / service
Quality Service.
Good customer support.
So having a web site is not enough, you also need to make sure that it is getting the exposure that it deserves - and this can be done only with proper search engine optimization & positioning.

Myth # 2
Doing SEO in-house is cheaper.

Very true, in-house is always cheaper, but is it cost-effective? is it going to produce same results as you can expect from someone who spends months and years studying how search engine works and rank web sites? Learning about how search engines work is not a one time thing, but it is a regular ritual. As search engines change their algorithm (in simple words, formulas for ranking websites) generally every 30-45 days, it is very important to know what they are up to if you wish to be ranked in top 20 or thirty of search results. If you are sure that you or your in-house person can keep up with all the changes in the search engines and is well aware of do & don'ts and how search engine ban sites, then it would be good to make such a decision - however, it is also very true that many companies have gotten banned or bannished to the abis because they or their in-house person did *something* wrong or something that was not as per the terms and condition of search engines without knowing or intending to do so.

You get what you pay for! So unless you are absolutely positive that you or your in-house person know what he/she is doing, you are better of hiring an expert to do search engine optimization for your web site. If you are not ranked in top 30 in search results, you will be loosing more then 98% traffic you can expect from search engines.

Myth # 3
Why do I need some SEO Consultant? There are lots of off-the-shelf programs available in the market. Why can't we just use them and save money.

The myth of submission software is second most popular and can be destructive for website owners.
Lets make few things clear about search engine optimization & positioning:

Website submission is one of the easiest thing anyone can do. As it is as simple at visiting any search engine/ directory and find the "Add Site" link and follow instructions.
Without proper optimization, website submission is useless. As there are billions of web pages our there, unless each and every page of your web site is optimized for the keywords you intend for that page to show in the results for, your chances of getting ranked in top 20/30 of search results are almost the same as you playing golf on moon by 2005.
Like music, drawing & dancing, search engine optimization is a art. There are many performers, but only few know all the steps and how it is done appropriately.
It takes tremendous amount of time & labor in researching effective keywords and phrases. Because doing search engine optimization without proper keyword research is like shooting an arrow in dark. For best possible results - keyword study is must!
Search Engines update their algorithm almost every month, and along with this algorithms continuously which causes the on and off page factors that effect a sites position to change as well. Also, these rules are different for every search engines and it is impossible for any software to do search engine optimization as any SEO Consultant would do. Even more importantly, many of these software programs are in direct violation of the search engines terms of service and will cause your site to be banned or at the very least penalized heaviliy.

Myth # 4 Guaranteed Top Positioning
What is this # 1 Ranking Guarantee I see from companies all over the net and in my email everday.

Number 1 Ranking Guarantee is another name of *Scam*. First, no one can guarantee any specific ranking at major search engines or directories. No SEO Consultant controls the search engine ranking patterns or can actually tell search engines on how to rank web site - so if someone is giving such guarantee, then you can be sure that you need to be looking for someone else, who actually knows how search engine works.



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Rich
Real Estate Websites
Search Engine Optimization

[This message has been edited by Rich@vtws (edited 05-31-2004).]

Well said Rich. Here is a Realty Times article I wrote back in March 2001 which is titled "Ten Ways To Avoid Web Site Placement Hype" - http://realtytimes.com/rtnews/rtapages/20010301_hype.htm

That was 3 years ago and agents are still falling for the same old lines today!


[This message has been edited by doug (edited 05-31-2004).]

So Rich,

I agree with your point however what is your solution to agents on a budget. I would love to have my site designed to my customization and pay someone to keep it where it's supposed to be; however, I don't have 20K in my budget for such a service. I believe agents believe your message on SEO but attempt to do it themselves because of cost. I am speaking out of turn because I am not sure of your fees. I have only been here for a short time, but have learned a lot and want to continue learning.

To be honest, you post was frustrating to me. The perverbial double edge sword. I agree with your point, but believe I can afford your cost

So what an average guy supposed to do? I just did not see the solution in your post.

Ashburn VA Real Estate
Northern Virginia Real Estate

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Michael C. Glass
REMAX Select Properties
Licensed to Practice Real Estate in Virginia
20 Pidgeon Hill Drive, Suite 201
Sterling, VA 20165
703-444-5900 (O)
703-723-2379 (D)
703-444-5921 (F)
http://www.moveupwithmike.com

Tell Me and I'll Forget
Show Me and I'll Remember
Involve Me and I'll Understand

Being able to Interpret and Manipulate Knowledge is Power!

Hi Mike,
Thanks for getting the ball rolling You weren't speaking out of turn by any means....I'm actually very expensive
Just kidding of course.

Yours is a hard question to answer because you ask a very direct question to which a direct answer would be undoubtedly seen by some as an atempt to solicite business for my company or any of the other competent contributors or host here at agentsonline.net I assure everyone this is NOT the case. I'm going to insert a copy of a response to a similar topic we made today and then continue from there.

I'm not speaking about any specific Brand of Realtor website package as I'd much rather spend my summer enjoying myself than preparing to fend off hordes of emails and phone calls threatening lawsuits...LOL

Now onto your question... Most if not all of the prepackaged realtor websites out there are simply not compatible with effective search engine optimization. Although some have, in their quest to be self made webmasters(wink), have figured out ways to get this part or that part of their sites
indexed, the cold hard fact remains.
For example, if you take an old Volkswagen beetle and purchase a Ferrari body kit, nice shiny rims and tires, and slap on a shiny new paint job...what you have is still a beetle...LOL Most of the realtor site packages that have found some placement in the search engines that we've personally looked at,have been discovered to be little more than older technology shined up with
a new paint job, and contain an enormous amount of spammy seo tactics that may, in the short term produce some results, but are questionable at best in terms of their being in compliance with most search engine terms of service.
While some do it yourselfers manage to get good placement for a page or 2, as I said previously, it is indisputable that vast majority of these template type sites never gain any notable placement, generate any measureable return on investment and are complete disappointments to the unknowing purchasers. I also feel it is unconscionable for the sellers of these template type packages, to fail to explain up front, the amount of work and time it would actually take to get any type of useful results and continue to sell this type of site for prifits sake. The technology is readily available to develop something far more effective in terms of a sites ability to be indexable, search engine friendly, generate high quality leads, while still providing a high level of end user control. These companies instead opt for a band aid approach to try to get some sections of their sites in the serps (search engine results pages) and point to it as some miraculous accomplishment that will soon be implemented system wide to all the other thousands of previous purchasers that have been sold a lemon . I'm certain that if people were to step back and consider the fact that we all specialize in doing different things in our professional lives and apply that to their real estate website, they would realize that their time would be much better served by seeking some help.

The vast majority of the hundreds of realtors and brokers I know, think fsbos are nuts for going it alone. What might the difference be if applied to website development/marketing and optimization being undertaken by the realtor?

There are many visitors to this site, that I'm sure have lots of questions about their how to enhance their sites effectiveness so let's keep kicking this can down the street and we will all learn and benefit.

Please understand that I am very aware of the enormous amount of time and effort some of you put into your sites and in no way to mean to disparrage or insult anyone or their sites, but I felt like a little tree shaking was in order in my little corner of the forum was needed to get some of you to open up and get some productive discussions going.

Happy Memorial Day

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Rich
Real Estate Websites
Search Engine Optimization

[This message has been edited by Rich@vtws (edited 05-31-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Rich@vtws (edited 05-31-2004).]

Hi Moveupwithmike,

I too understand your frustration. Rich and I feel the same frustration everytime we read a post or an article that is advising Realtors about how to promote a website - when we know that the information being given is totally wrong.

Imagine our frustration when this misinformation is coming from some of the most well-known names in the Realtor training / advice industry! Realtors automatically believe what they are saying and then pass the same misinformation along to their colleagues. This process has kept the same old bad information circulating since about 1997!

When I was a Realtor, I used to love hearing the misinformation - because I knew that my real estate sites would have no competition whatsoever - and they never did. Being #1 was as easy just analyzing the competitors sites and making a few changes to my own.

Things are not that easy anymore but the same wrong information that would not allow a site to rank well way back then when things were easy - is still being passed around today. It didn't work then and it doesn't work now.

What is the solution? I think it begins with critical thinking. When someone tells you that "this is the way to do it" - usually checking out their own ranking and traffic stats (using Alexa) will say a lot about what they really know.

Most agents who give this bad info will tell you they rank #1 in Google - what they will not tell you is that they only rank well for non-competitive terms like their own name or company name - not for keywords searchers actually use.

So some critical thinking and a little checking will help you get a better understanding about what course of action you may want to follow.

It is possible to promote your website on a small budget but there is an ongoing learning curve and you need to be prepared to work at it every day. Then, if you do that, you find you know longer have time for real estate - and you end up helping others promote their online presence for a living instead of selling real estate.

That is what happened to me

I think this is a really interesting thread, and would like to know if anyone can tell me if there are any good sites on the web about how to optimize your site to get a good search engine ranking.

I had heard that the ready made template sites didn't perform well in the rankings, so I decided to build my own site....I'm almost finished with it now. However earlier on this evening I was surfing the net, and on the MSN homepage search,I typed in "homes for sale in Pace fl" (my local area). Looking through the sites on the first two pages of results, about 98% were ihouse 2000 sites. Of course they all look very similar, and I'm glad that I decided to go it alone, however they have managed to get to a decent ranking on MSN.

Keep this thread going ...it's great!!

Beachgal

Hi Beachgal,
Thanks for jumping into the fray
There's lots of good sites including this one
Your post reinforces what Doug said in his post about getting palcement for search phrases that generate little if any actual searches by people seeking your services.
A quick check reveals the totals as follows:
How many times is this phrase searched for?
homes for sale in Pace fl
Wordtracker
No data for phrase: = NO Traffic
Overture
No data for phrase: = NO traffic

It would probably take me a day to build a site that would own that phrase but it wouldn't do me much good if I was relying on it to generate leads.

Start with your keyword/phrase research and build from there. Once you determine the terms that will generate actual traffic to your site, then it is time to begin building and optimizing pages to capture that traffic. If your site has been up for a while, your stats and log files will tell you what the locals are using to find you. Anything else is simply putting the cart before the horse if search engine traffic is expected to play a role in the sites success.

I should have started this long ago ... Let's keep the questions coming



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Rich
Real Estate Websites
Search Engine Optimization

[This message has been edited by Rich@vtws (edited 05-31-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Rich@vtws (edited 05-31-2004).]

BTW, what's the url of your website beachgal so we can take a look under the hood

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Rich
Real Estate Websites
Search Engine Optimization

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rich@vtws:
[B]BTW, what's the url of your website beachgal so we can take a look under the hood

I haven't uploaded it yet Rich, I'm still fine tuning the content. Also somebody, who'll remain nameless in my household re-set the brighness on the monitor. So what I'd thought were brown tables tunrd out to be purple....kids ... gotta luv em!

Beachgal

Beachgal,

As Rich mentioned, first you determine what keywords you should be targeting - that is, what keywords are actually used by those searching for real estate in your area. To do that, you would use the keyword research tools at Overture.com and at wordtracker.com

Once you have done that, you begin building your website around the keywords you want to target. Most do this backwards - they build the website and then think, "now what keywords should I target?". Then they put those keywords in their meta keyword tag and think their site is optimized. Guess what - it doesn't work that way

Basic SEO says that for the keywords you intend on targeting on a given page, make sure the keywords are included once in the Title tag, the meta keyword and meta description tags, header tag, text, alt text, and outbound links. Then make sure that other sites link to you using the keywords in their link text.

If your keywords are very competitive you will need to arrange for a number of links from other sites to point to your site. How many? That depends on how competitive your keywords are.

If your keywords are very competitive you will need to analyze your competitor's sites to figure out what the keyword density should be, how much text should be on the page, etc. - and you may have to do this whenever the search engines change their algorithm in order to regain lost rank.

Search engine positioning is an ongoing process - it is not something you do once and forget about it. The majority of the sites that ranked well a year ago are nowhere to be found now - the search engines changed and they did not.

Another thing - be prepared to wait several months for any changes you make to be reflected in search engine results. Search engines are painfully slow nowadays!

Well thanks for the great info. Ok am sitting here hand in the air .... yes I've almost completed my website and not dealt with building in the key words, so Rich it will be a while before you get a look at my site.

I have some question for you guys though. Firstly will I be able to compete with sites that use PPC or paid inclusion?

Must my kewords only relate to each individual page and will the search engines frown on me if I add keyword phrases that are not necessarily found on that page but elsewhere within my site.

How many key words or phrases can you use?

I looked at a website last night that did a free key word search on my site and then produced me some key phrases to paste into my web editor. I noticed that it asked the search engine to check back in one week ... does this work? I haven't pasted it in yet, thought I'd run it by you guys first and get your thoughts on it.

Many Thanks

beachgal

Hi Beachgirl,
Sounds like your tslking about meta tags ?
Optimizing for keywords/phrases is much different than pasting in the meta tags from another site. Don't panick...all is not lost
Lets start with what market you are in and the search terms that you think people will use to find what it is that you will have on your site. Post what you think those terms might be and the url of some of your competitors sites that you hope to see yours showing up better than. That will give me a place to start and give you some more specific advice.
When you post the url of your competitors sites...DON"T use the www before it or you'll be helping them beat you as these forums are indexed in the search engines.


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Rich
Real Estate Websites
Search Engine Optimization

With PPC you pay to be in the advertiser section - and recent studies have concluded that only 20% of searchers actually click on these links. Searchers prefer the "organic" search results and that is where optimizing your site places you - where 80% of searchers look!

Paid inclusion is really designed for dynamically generated sites that are not easy for search engines to spider. A site built with html does not need this although it can speed up inclusion but in the long run is of no benefit. There is not affect on ranking. If your site is not designed to rank well it will not. It will just be included.... on the last page

Inktomi's PFI, the forerunner of the current system used by Yahoo et al, actually caused you to have poorer rankings than if you would have used the free submit in many cases - not better.



No.



[This message has been edited by doug (edited 06-02-2004).]

Speaking of optimizing, I think.. I am seeing more pages of this forum in google or is it just me?

[This message has been edited by 2savvy (edited 06-02-2004).]

It's definitely not just you... I'm seeing the same thing

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Rich
Real Estate Websites
Search Engine Optimization