I have been an agent for 9 years and started doing BPO's last summer. I am wondering what kind of split most agents have with their Brokers for BPO's. I feel like mine is to low and would like to re-negotiate or find a new broker. Thanks!

The split with my broker for BPO's is 75/25, and I can live with that.

No split on my BPO money....it's all mine.

none

123--What is your split?

I split 60/40 with broker (broker=40). I have always thought that was low.

I don't know how you guys can split the bpo's and still make much money. By the time your broker takes 40% of $50 which leaves you $30, it doesn't leave much after $0.50 per miles, camera, computer, internet, etc. expenses. I would have to only take close in locations, bpo's where there are a number in the same general area, or take those that are on my routes for other work.

I think that it sure is short sighted for the broker to take anything out of BPO's as they bring in listings of you also do REO's. I get more than 30 listings a year from my bpo work. That's where the broker can make his money.

95%

I keep all of mine. I just pay my monthly fee and keep 100% of bpo's and comission.

Thanks for all the replys! My spilt is 75/25. It looks like it is low. I feel that if my Broker has to process my checks, he can keep a little for his time. I would like 90/10 or 95/5. It looks like that is not unreasonable. Hopefully some more people will reply so I can get a better idea of the "norm".

Gig em...
You mentioned that you get about 30 listings a year from doing BPO's. Did they just start coming in after you started doing BPO's? Or did you do something special to market yourself?
Thanks!

90/10 on bpos. Gig em, If I make between 4000-5000 a month. I don't see a big deal on the 10%. If I have a listing he would only get $325 on every transaction regardless to the property amount.

I have heard that in some states you can be paid directly using your SS# instead of TIN# and not split it with your broker. I is my understanding that it is against the law in some states. Some companys will not pay that way even if it is legal. I also have a 60/40 split and some BPOs are not worth doing because of the split.

No split here. I use my SSN instead of their EIN and the check comes directly to me.

I am in Missouri and have read on this forum that yes, I can get checks directly, and also, no I can't! I even checked with my local RE Commission and the guy I talked to told me that he did not know, and I should consult an Attorney!
So who knows!!!!!!!

My Broker says that the checks have to go through him. BPO's can be a lot of work, but in this latest market, I guess the Broker wants to make something if you're not out selling.

none. I pay my monthly fee, and then I have a yearly cap on listings and sales. i don't even think that my broker knows that i am doing BPO's.

How could your broker not know that you are doing BPOs? Your payments have to made to your broker. Don't you think he/she should know since their E&O would be paying for anything you do wrong?

No split for me. My broker said to have the checks sent directly to me so he did not have to worry about cutting a $50 check.

Here, too, all payments have to go thru the broker. It's in our contract.

It is my understanding that in New York compensation to the agent must be paid by the broker, it is illegal to be paid directly. This would apply to agents licensed as sales people or associate brokers (that is brokers who choose to work under another broker). Certainly it is up to negotiation to achieve an agreement on the split, if any, between the agent and the broker. Many brokers will pass through the entire amount in hopes that it will generate a listing that will give him a commission split.

It is also permissable in New York for an agent to have their own broker license in addition to whatever license they have with their sponsoring broker. This opens the channel to be paid directly and legally. I would encourage anyone using this option to fully disclose to their sponsoring broker that they are doing this. Avoid raising any suspicions that you are doing something behind his back and do not use the personal broker license to run competion with your sponsor in the listing and sales activity.

I keep all of mine too. I just pay my monthly fee and keep 100% of bpo's and comission.

Get a contract. I did not. I learned the hard way that my former managing broker, was skimming BPO money from me and that he was taking a kickback from vendor suppliers to do business with him. I told him I could not live with it and I didn't figure he would stop either, so I gave him notice.

When I left, many clients, BPO and REO told him they keep agents not companies. That was 2 years ago...doin fine making twice the money and doing 1/2 the work as before but still adding lots of work to the schedule and more sales than before.

Watch out though, my former broker was so full of himself - he sued me and after 1.5 years in litigation, I guess he realized he could not win and all the money he skimmed from me $32K went to his attorney....ah duh. Upon settlement I got a check from him and a check from the Employing Broker. Big heads get big ideas so good riddance to Lawrence Volbrecht.

I don't know what our law says about payment, but my contract says every payment has to go thru broker.

I do not have a split, all checks are made to the company and they cut me a check back for the same amount.

I keep 100% of all BPO money too. I pay my monthly fees to my broker and keep everything. My checks are made out to my broker and then they cut me a check, no questions or problems.

My Broker takes it all..... and that is fine with me.

And you're your own broker, right?
Mine gets 35%. Okay with me because he pays the DSL bill and it's most often his computer/office/etc that I use to complete them. He also pays for all the copies of public records I need, so his expenses add up for my work.

yep

no split for me---he gets his part of the listings i get from these. When he starts taking a cut, I will leave.

Are you an agent or a broker?

I think that it sure is short sighted for the broker to take anything out of BPO's as they bring in listings of you also do REO's. I get more than 30 listings a year from my bpo work. That's where the broker can make his money - Gigem.

I could not agree with you more Gigem.

Anyone in a franchise office? My broker sends the 6% franchise fee to the company from the Bpo checks before writing out my check. Anyone one else in a franchine having this happen?

When my co went with Prudential, they did send the franchise fee to them to cover themselves while questioning the issue. They talked with the powers that be, and don't need to send the franchise fee to them for BPOs.

It only took a week or so to figure it out, just locating the correct person to speak with took the time.

What position/title was the decision maker at Prudential, maybe I can direct my broker and keep more money. Thank you

Wow, I couldn't tell you who it was. I think what happened was one of the girls that worked with the transition talked w/the transition guy, who called someone, that called someone else kind of a thing.

Thank you for the reply. Something to discuss with my broker.

I'm in a franchise. I keep 100% of the BPO money, no franchise fees.

I'm looking into changing brokers right now. My current broker is taking 30% from my BPO's so this is an important issue for me when deciding on a new broker.

Would any of you that are getting more than a 90% split on your BPO's share which company you are with?

I am in a Crye*Leike franchise office and the broker was told she has to send the 6% franchise fee to corp. She chooses to not to take any of the money from BPO's except what corp. requires of her. I think the split is a brokers choice. So when interviewing brokers and deciding where YOU want to be, ask the question about how they treat BPO's. It is the only way you can make an informed decision. Good Luck!

My broker is required to send a 6% franchise fee out of everything, even BPO's. She keeps nothing for herself. She make her money when we get the REO listings. In TN everything is suppose to go through the broker. Check to see if your local board has an attorney to help. Good Luck!

I'm the broker/owner of my office. The office takes a flat 7.00 on each BPO. I don't feel that is unreasonable at all. Especially since I find all the BPO work for the agents, not one of them has ever brought a company to the office. I've done all that. I keep track of what is paid and is not, I make the phone calls to get the payments, I write the checks, and I pay for those checks. No one has ever complained to me and believe me they would if they felt I was being unfair. I would look at it differently if the agents were out there drumming up new BPO's or new REO's. But they don't. I personally do not make any money off the BPO's completed by any of the agents. I've always kept this money in a BPO account and used the office portion for "special advertising" that the office would not normally have done.

And in KY, all monies have to flow through the broker, no matter where it originates from.

I am on a 50/50 split on BPO's (but I plan to talk to the Principal Broker after the 1st of the year to get that adjusted).

I need to find out about Virginia and using the SSN vs the EIN - I thought only commissions had to be paid through the broker. Maybe I am wrong. I need to look at the Real Estate "rule book"...

Yeah, I am in a Franchise, too - there goes another 6%!

50/50 on BPOs sucks. I'm sorry, but it does. I went through that, when I first started doing them. At the end of the year, when everything was said & done, I almost fell off my chair when I saw how much cash went to my broker. Even this year, I renegotiated with the co, but still, they made a ton of bucks off me, for not doing a thing but writing the checks. I know for a fact their cut of my BPO money was more than what some agents brought in for closed deals all year. Now I'm in the process of switching brokers (what a PIA that's turning out to be) and will get to keep it all.

I'm my own broker in my office of one but I think your $7 cut sounds fair.

my broker used to get 10% when i first started doing bpo's. now he makes his money on the listing's i get from the bpo's. next month I'll be going 100%..................YES......LOL

I have brought all the companies I work with to the office. My broker does not research or solicate for BPO or REO business, so the agents in this office doing this work (3 out of 13) have earned the business. With that said, the broker is still doing bookkeeping, writting checks and other support systems I'm sure I do not even realize to help me and I would not object to some amount being kept by the broker for her time and expenses.

Mary- You are right, in Virginia all money received for anything related to your real estate license must go through your broker. It does include BPO's/
We absolutely could not and would not do BPO's for a 50/50 split UNLESS we were in an apprenticeship situation, or a situation where we were learning the BPO/REO ropes directly from our broker. As soon as that cord was cut though, that would have to end. Prudential takes a 6% franchise fee, and we are not complaining at all. The rest is ours. I am surprised to hear other Prudential agents aren't required to do that, but I still do not feel like we are being ripped off.

Thanks Andrea - Like I said, I plan on talking to my broker after the holidays. I dont have time to do it until then (you know, the whole family and holiday thing....)

Happy Holidays everyone!

When I break-away and open my own office, the office will keep $10 from every BPO done, whether my own or those of other agents. That should cover administrative fees (check-writing, record-keeping, etc). But I won't give out my client-list. I'll expect each agent to do their own legwork and research and be responsible for their own successes and failures. God, it sounds like I'm gonna "mother" them, too!

I am the only one in my office doing REO, pre-foreclosure and BPO work. I have brought all the clients, will give no one my client list even though many have been bold enough to ask. In my humble opinion as a broker if I have an agent who is such a go getter, I would encourage that agent to keep their BPO money as long as we can share the spoils of the listing.
I want to encourage growth and entreprenural activity, they could become my partner in the future, I would keep options open.

I have the same horrible deal with my broker.

100%.I am the broker. What would it be if I had associates working for me? I would probably let them keep most of it, probably 80% I would do this so they can have money to survive.

I split 75/25 with my current broker. My last broker was 50/50.

I have been pondering this issue for a few months now and it is a difficult one. I am an independant broker and for BPO's I have decided on a 70/30 split. When I began doing BPO and REO's I was on a 90/10 split for transactions and my broker didnt charge me anything for BPO's. I wish I could still get that and not have to deal with all the Brokerage BS. My broker knew what I was doing and he saw the months I spent researching and amount of money I was paying to try to break into the REO business. He was happy because I got the phone ringing when the market went from boom to bust with the small amount of REO's I was getting. He also knew that I would get a listing once in a great while from a BPO.
Today that has changed. Those who have been in the business for a while know that the odds of getting a listing from a bpo anymore are slim to none. I look at BPO's today as just another catagory of real estate as a whole much like property management.
Since I now have my own brokerage I cannot justify making next to nothing on a BPO when I have all the liability. If I were to give an agent a 90/10 split on BPO's and he does 1000 a year that might not even cover my E&O deductable if there is an issue, and for those of you that are not brokers as your percentage of BPO business increases your E&O increases due to BPO's being considered a higher liability.
Well here is what I offer to my agents. I offer them my master BPO list which I have spent years building and I also have autofill software that is available to them to reduce their data entry time. In the big scheme of things I offer them the ability to spend 1 week signing up and within weeks they have business. At that point it is up to the agent. Yes I am a broker/owner and get 100% of the money but I also get 100% of all the brokerage expenses and 100% of the headaches.

I'm not a broker owner. However, I tend to run an office within my Broker's office. I have my own staff, my own building, my own equiptment. Thus I place no strain on their support staff. They also get some bragging rights due to the numbers my operation generates. Most importantly, they leave me alone. REOs are a 95/5 split and a reasonable monthly RE/MAX fee.
Back to your question. They take nothing from my BPO income. Further, I have a separate BPO department overseen by another agent and here's how I have that split. I receive 10 dollars per BPO, he keeps the rest. He's paid upon submission and I wait for payment from the BPO company. The 10 bucks could be considered my fee for fronting the money. The advantage to me is that I'm not tied up driving around, the quality of the product exceeds anything I could turn out. His team is great. And any REOs that come out of it are mine. I would also add that his team only performs BPOs for listing companies, no mills and the average BPO fee is just over $50.00. In addition I pay him $75.00 for my listing BPOs which includes all follow up MMRs, weekly property inspections, and the broker scope of repairs on REOs. (he was a contractor before he got licensed).
To those that would say I should perform all my own BPOs, I would add. My AMs know how I operate and have no issue with it. Further, I'm not so arrogant as to believe I'm the only person capable of turning out a quality product. Hence, He's satisfied, I'm satisfied and most importantly, the clients satisfied.

I pay $475 a month "rent" to get 100% of my BPO earnings. I don't sell any real estate, and my broker provides E&O. I like that arrangement much better than having my own one man office with all the liability and cost.

here is some more BPOJoe wis-dum to start 2011 off!

1. If you are serious about real estate-get your broker's license
2. if you are paying your broker for bpos that YOU get-stop!
3. if your broker gives you bpos-then pay a referal-fair is fair!

now for the big secret to all of you out there that actually want to make 6 figures! (if you are happy with 10-20-30k a year-this does not apply-keep doing what you are doing)

1. if you are in a state where the agent spit is 50-80%--OPEN A BROKERAGE AND OFFER 100%!
2. if you are paying more than $99 a month for your 100% split---OPEN A BROKERAGE AND OFFER 100% for $99 or less.

I am always amazed with people in business. most people it seems would rather over charge 1 person than to undercharge 20---and then wonder why their business has peaks and a lot of valleys!
real estate is changing--and if you do not change with it--people like me will eat you alive!

so in conclusion!
1. get your broker's license if you do not have it
2. if you do mostly bpos-quit your broker (unless he/she gives you a boat load of leads-that turn into sales)
3. start your own brokerage-(5 agents can be a great business)
a. you can do a discount brokerage with 100% to agents for $99 or less
b. list homes for $300 or even free-make money from leads and referalls
c.do rentals as well as property management (high profit and weekly or monthly checks)

believe it or not--all of this is much easier than BPO's and can make you a lot of money. But--you have to modernize you thinking!

some brokers where i live have up to or over 1000 agents paying 35-99 dollars a month-do the math!

i can sit here and show anybody on this board how to make 6 figures next year!


but right now i have to find out how to make 7 figures for myself in 2011!
i hope this helps!
happy new year!


(and those worried about liability and costs--you already have that-so do not let that stop you from your own shop-it is an overhyped myth...)
only thing that stops people from taking the next step is fear-so own it or change it! 2010 is over!
the year of fear is behind us!
no excuses!

How would a broker even know that you're doing bpo's unless you told them?
I think people talk too much and don't know when to keep their mouth shut. Human nature I guess.

One broker with 1000 agents is a house of cards. There is no way that broker can supervise 1000 agents. I have seen brokers get into serious trouble by the DR for “failure to supervise.” You, as the broker of all these agents, have no idea what is going on with your agents. With that many agents, someone is going to do something stupid and get you sued. Maybe several of them will get you sued. Then, what happens to your six figure scheme? I’m not going to get into the idea of listing properties for free or for $300.00 just to get sign calls other than to say, in my opinion, that is really stupid.

Any successful business model requires systems in place, and proper management of your people. Without those, you might as well also set up your own legal department because you will surely need it sooner or later.

So bpojoe, I really don’t buy into your “wis-dom.” I have found, over the years of managing people, that only a few can actually manage themselves. And this is the case no matter how well your screening procedures are. The rest need to have someone else provide them direction, training and motivation. If that wasn’t the case, everyone would be millionaires which we know, they are not. That is why I don’t have a bunch of whiny agents as I really don’t want the hassle or the liability. Schemes like this with a thousand low cost, unsupervised agents running around doing who knows what are a big reason that our industry has a negative perception by the general population.

Newton:

For me anyway its not so much of wanting my broker to know I am doing BPOs, but wishing to abide by the Florida Real Estate Commission (FREC). As per FREC guidelines, any real estate related earned income whether it be via: sales commissions, BPO, leases, etc must going through one's broker. I know of some in my area that get paid directly, but I am not willing to take that chance.

Strangely for once I agree with BPOjoe on most every point he makes. Though I wouldn't want to manage any agents. But that's just me. If those that want to pretend to manage 1000 agents that's fine. It's their skin if they fail. If you are working for one of those Brokers just keep yourself in line. But that isn't for everyone and the market will weed those out. I made this mistake of joining a large franchise in late 2009 after owning my own company. I was under the impression they were working to obtain more REO listings. Now I hate giving them money. After I work through some health problems I have I'm going to start my own company again. It isn't that hard. In Colorado it takes about $1000 depending on what you are wanting to do.

Working for somebody else is not an option!
Not in my case.
We are independent contractors and we work independetly regardless of company we are with.
It I do not deliver then I do not get paid.

I don't know much about Ohio (except it's "O" on the sides and "hi" in the middle); but don't your Licenses show who your Company is and the name of the Broker who's vicariously responsible for your actions?

Most, though not all, of these BPO Firms require a copy of that License . . . . and a W-9 identifying who should be receiving payment for any services you might render. If that's the Broker's Tax Number or Employer's Identification Number, how can you use it without his/her permission ?

I'd reckon that the most important Client relationship that an Agent ever has is with his own Broker, and certainly the Broker ought be entitled to the same care and protection afforded your other Clients: those little Fiduciary Responsibilities called Care, Obedience; Accounting; Loyalty; and Disclosure.

I would "trust" that your relationship with a Broker is one of Cooperation and not adversarial. Without earning the trust of your own Broker, how and why should any other Client feel inclined to hire you on, or keep you, as an Agent? Once I lost the ability to trust an Agent . . . . they'd be out on their ear forever, and the locks would be changed pronto.

If you cannot reach an Independent Contractor Agreement that is comfortable for both you AND your Broker, then you shouldn't be there. You'll be far happier if you're not having to act in a clandestine manner, and you know that the trust your Broker has in you is not mis-placed. Life is too short.

Isn't it odd that people are quite willing to pay 50% or 25% when we're talking about an abstract Commission of $5000 or $10,000 but will then begrudge a Broker his 25% or 50% when the amount is only the BPO Fee of $50 or $100 ?

The percentage is the same . . . . so what is the problem ? It's no longer abstract!

But I'm not in Ohio.

obviously my previous post is not for everyone!

yes, doing real estate for $300 sound silly--but it is easier than doing bpos for $50. I was making over $1000 a day during the peak and i had friends doing 3 times that.

doing low cost agent fees is not for everyone but there are guys doing it and making a butt load of money!

rentals really suck and most people cannot do them--but again--I worked with guys who did 12 mil in a year at one time!

these ideas are not for the weak at heart. But, real estate has changed and will continue to change. those who stay above the frey-make the hay! maybe soon a BPOJoe will be coming to a town near YOU. i made money because i could beat my competition. I made more money giving things away than full services offices did all day long.
it is about systems and simple mangement---
but again--this is not for everyone!
it is not easy to make 6 figures..but it is also not hard if you are willing do the work.
remember--the guys making over 1 million dollars a year have the same hours a day as those making $20,000.
the only difference is actual desire!
if you want it --it really is attainable--i know becuase i have done it!

so i know it is not a matter of brains@

now i have to reach that million dollar mark--
go 2011!

This thread sounds like a late night infomercial.

flat fee brokerages (eg. $300 MLS listings, etc) violate many state laws (limited service requirements) and are killing the profession.... FIDUCIARY responsibility is not an after thought, and cannot be achieved for $300 per listing, here's where a liability could potentially be a huge factor....

I prefer to provide my FMV listings FULL SERVICE for 7% (4% for me/3% for Buyer's agent)... so on a $300,000 listing I make $10,200 after my split (85/15 and I get 100% of my BPO money).... how many $300 dollar listings would it take to make this amount.... 34 listings.... hummmmm, easy choice!

The entire split vs. no split thing is completely over blown... those that pay splits generally get more from their brokerage as far as support, supplies, etc.... its essentially the same in the end no matter which model, except for discounters who are set up for failure in the long term.... we have had several brokerages in our area fold over the past few years and almost all of them were the flat fee or small money fee with say a $499 per transaction fee model.... most of these companies had hundreds of agents

And as far as splits good.... the last time I deposited my commission check I didn't deposit a split, I deposited MONEY

I get it all and always have..Its considered additional commission.

With my previous broker the split was on a sliding scale based on commissions per month

$14K & below = 70/30
$15K to $19K = 80/20
$20K plus = 90/10

I'm now with KW and my split is 80/20

75/25 that caps out at $4500, then I go to 100%

The $4500 can come from sales or bpo's so I try to knock it out as quick as possible.

100% on BPO's and sales commission?

For the first 4 months of BPOs, I was keeping 100%. Then in month 4 my broker saw me get a $1000 check and decided I needed to "split" the money with him. So now I'm on 70/30 plus I get hit with $50 admin fee and $95 E&O fee. I was doing them to basically pay my desk fee, but now it takes close to 8 BPOs just to break even. I think he's trying to discourage me from doing them.

I get 100% of bpos and commission. I just have to pay my monthly dues. I would never split my bpo money. All they due is cash a check and write a new one.

I pay the 6% franchise fee and that's all.

100% on all BPOs, no office fees, sliding scale on sales.

I also get 100% of my BPO income. I do have a split for sales.

Only 1% out of my BPOs but desk fees come out of my commision check.

Split? LOL, nope!

Find another broker; times are tough, you can't afford to split BPOS are you kidding........tell your broker that's how you pay you MLS and NAR dues to stay in the business while you hustle for listings and buyers!

No split here..... And my broker knows it. He even receives my checks from goodmandean at the office for me pick them up later. Bpos area a lot of work. If I get reos some day, my broker will get the benefit. if the bpos are your main business source and your broker asks for split, find another broker that's ok with that.

If I had an agent who's main business source was BPO's, they wouldn't have to quit, I'd show them the door.
I have expenses to keep the business going (rent, utilities, insurance, licensing, etc) and since our business in not a charitable foundation, we need agents that produce.

How does your broker benefit from allowing you to work in his office?

I don't feel guilty at all accepting 100% of my BPO payments ( non commission compensation) . If I did not produce some sales and did not pay monthly desk fees to an office I never go to, then I would feel guilty.

If I was a broker, did not get desk fees, and only took a split of commission sales and the agent did not produce sales and was known to only do BPO's, then I would give him or her the boot.

If the agent produces sales and you get splits on commission, I feel you are greedy to ask for BPO % if the agent works this business from home.
If he / she sits in your office and uses your resources, get the boot out !

If an agent makes $100,000 a year doing BPOs vs. another agent making $100,000 in sales, what is the difference? I just don't get it. Would you show the door to an agent who has a sales production of that caliber?

Why not offer the FT BPO agent something similar? I guess you could make the argument that the BPO agent has to prove they produce what they claim. Either way, I feel it is short sided to say that someone who only does BPOs is not worthy of working for you. If you knew you could acquire a $100,000 a year producing BPO agent and receive 10% of the split (as an example), are you saying you wouldn't want the $10,000?

Money is money, no matter how it is made.

I use my own office space, my own printer, my own paper, my own everything. My partner and I each pay around $50 a month in "office" feea and my partner produces sales. Our broker doesn't ask for a split and if he did, I'd go someplace else.

How does your broker benefit from allowing you to work for him? Does he charge you anything?

I work with a partner and we had a closing just yesterday. We also have a nice commercial deal under contract, to close within the next 4 weeks. I believe he benefits from short sales referrals from us to his other agents. He benefits from bankruptcy referrals we give to the lawyer affiliated with his lawyer wife. He benefits from
closings we do through the title agent working for his wife. Last but not least, he gets 100 bucks a months from us for not using his phone, his copier, fax, A/C, lights, desk space and whatever else he has in his office.
My broker has also gotten a split from the REO listing I sold, a result of doing the BPO. Really, it's not like he doesn't benefit.
I do BPOs to put food on the table.
My broker is a great guy, he is trying the best he can. I'm trying the best I can do put food on the table. Selling homes isn't cutting it for me at the time, so my partner and I diversified our efforts.

Now, how does my broker benefit me and why wouldn't I go to an office where I don't have to pay an office fee and don't "have to" produce sales? My broker isn't a God or something. He has more real estate experience and he's an ace when it comes to commercial deals. Other than that, nobody in our office feels they are "allowed to work for him", it's rather like "we are all working as a team". Btw, my broker has several agents that "just hang their license with him", they pay their fee and that's it. I don't see his benefit but I guess that's part of his business model.

Read your contract. If it says that he will take a percent of each side of a transaction than that's all he is due. Gettin paid for BPO's is not a commission, it is a professional fee for service.

My broker takes nothing from my bpo's.

To clear up Brad's misunderstanding, I should have added that someone that primarily does BPO's and insists on keeping 100% would be out the door.
So someone doing one or two deals a year, let's say they earn $12K in commission, but doing $80K in BPO's and keeping 100% is only contributing a small amount to the expenses of keeping an office.
I worked at a Re/Max from 2001 to 2004 in Florida and did well over $100K in BPO's alone every year. It was 95/5 and the office kept their 5% and I never complained. When I earned a broker's license in 2004, I went out on my own, paid my own expenses (Office rent, e and o, dues, fees, utilities, etc).

And just to add a little on the subject, every state requires that you place you salesperson license with a broker. The broker assumes the risk for everything you do that is real estate related, including BPO's. There is a cost that comes with assuming that risk. That cost is not a "hard" cost, like something that you receive billing, but it is like an opportunity cost would be, the risk of losing something if certain circumstances occur. The person assuming the risk deserves to be compensated for that.

PA, absolutely correct.
My broker doesn't ask for a split, we bring in closed transactions - sorry but I don't feel bad.

Yes an agent must hang his or her "salesmen" license with a broker to sell homes.

My broker is not and does not pay my professional fees, license, E&O required and my liability insurance that I must pay along with my Professional association all related to doing BPO's, only our real estate commissioned sales.
Nothing I do in BPO world has any liability to my broker nor do I step into the office to do any related work.

I deliver "sales" and pay a part of my sales commissions to my broker as that was the agreement from day one.
BPO's work came later on and was never an issue till the brokers learned some agents makes 100K or better. Now the hand comes out and brokers are finding all ways to justify why they should get a split as "sales" are down.

I am sure if you started washing cars on the properties of real-estate clients brokers would find a way to ask for a split of those proceeds too.

A broker certainly has the right to give a sales person the boot if he feels they are not contributing to the office expenses and not delivering sales. Every brokerage model is structured differently financially and often changes and are flexible depending on the sales person's value to the office.

A sales person certainly has the right to hang his license with a broker who has a different business model that does not ask for a split of your BPO professional fees done outside the office.

It works both ways.

Broker question :

If I worked for you as a sales person and completed 22m in home sales in 2010 and delivered to you $27,500.00 in your split of commissions and you found out that I accepted 100K in BPO income the same year, would you demand $5000.00 from my BPO work or bar me from your brokerage ?

Master B - Thanks for the steady stream of posts and updates. You'll be a major contributor in no time at your pace.
You got as many posts in one month as it took me 2+ yrs to get. Nice job.

I'm just curious BPOMaster. Are your bpo checks made out to your or your broker?

To my P.A under my business name and is known and authorized by my broker to do so. That's required in FL.

It's different in New Jersey. Our board just sent us a notice reminding us that bpos must be paid through the broker.

Master - Don't want to get in a war of words over this, but since I am still licensed as a broker in FL, I need to remind you that in your state, everything you do that is real estate related must be done under the auspices of an active licensed real estate broker.

Now you could argue that doing BPO's is not real estate related I'm sure, but you need to look at it from the point of view of FREC. Could they decide this is real estate related? They sure could. You need a real estate license to do this kind of work and you use the MLS to obtain data.

Now, could completion of a BPO lead to a FREC complaint? Imagine this scenario: You do a BPO for a short sale -- the value is $xxx -- the agents involved in the short sale have a contract at $xxx minus $30,000. The short sale is not approved (based on your BPO) and the house is foreclosed. Now you know that your BPO was based on the best available comparables and are pretty confident that it is correct, but the listing agent files a complaint with FREC stating that you are guilty of fraud, concealment, misrepresentation etc.

Now you know you did nothing wrong but that doesn't work at a FREC hearing. So you need an attorney just to answer the complaint. And by the way, since it involves real estate, your broker and the company was part of the complaint because the broker could be cited for inproper supervision.

The broker assumes that risk for the business so shouldn't he be compensated monitarily for assuming that risk?

And the fact that you complete the work at home (or in your car or at the neighborhood Starbucks) doesn't really have any impact here. The fact that the work is real estate related and requires a real estate license means your broker is at risk.

Now, could completion of a BPO lead to a FREC complaint? Imagine this scenario: You do a BPO for a short sale -- the value is $xxx -- the agents involved in the short sale have a contract at $xxx minus $30,000. The short sale is not approved (based on your BPO) and the house is foreclosed. Now you know that your BPO was based on the best available comparables and are pretty confident that it is correct, but the listing agent files a complaint with FREC stating that you are guilty of fraud, concealment, misrepresentation etc.


Understood BUT the BPO exterior agent is never identified to the agents involved in the transaction, has no gain or loss in the same of the property and IF I was attached to the property in any way shape of form, I would decline the BPO assignment. The BPO company I work for assigns at least two and sometimes three agents to determine the value, pool the numbers and comes up with an average for that particular short sale. I have completed over 9000 BPO's and have never had any issues or questions on my work. The process remains anonymous as is should always !

1. If you meet the agent at an interior and hand him/her your business card you're identified.
2. According to the FREC, BPOs are real estate related and must be paid through your broker. They advised me to read their "rules and regs" but I have my own to read in Jersey :-)

Have not had an interior order in two years.

I am unknown to other agents with pending short sales or reo's.

I would turn down an interior IF it was offered now, thanks to your input

Any comment on what the FREC had to say re BPO payments not being paid through your Broker?

Florida Statue 475.42 subsection D basically says that all real estate related income has to go through the broker with their permission. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

http://archive.flsenate.gov/statutes/ind...HTM&Title=->2007->Ch0475->Section%2042#0475.42

Its absolutelly untrue that the BPO agent is not identified on the bpo form. I get second bpo's to reveiw frequently before determining an REO price and the agents name is typically there.

the point of the discussion is: in Fl the governing body has determined that BPO'S may be completed by licenses sales agents for a fee and does fall under our scope of our license. Hense, bpos are a real estate practice. By regulation, payment has to be made to the brokerage. Do what you want but to pretend you are not violating the regulation is silly.

I'm with Connect and we keep all of the BPO money. They will let the BPO companies pay us direct.

STEW - is 100% correct.

Here, Here !

Interesting mix of views and what is actually allowed. I would think that IF it was not leagally right that the BIG three would not pay the agents directly, and they do. Good enough for me.

95% of my exterior work if for the lenders county auction "pre sale" and pricing of the REO once titled in the banks name.
Short sale BPO work is pretty much ended in my area.

In Florida you can be paid directly if the Broker allows it.

Doug : Thank you

0 split for bpos, but maybe if it were my primary source of income there might charge some sort of fee for processing the checks. They make it up on my split with sales volume. My broker said I could go ahead and have these checks made payable to me, so in CA I think you can get compensated directly with brokers permission.

The question wasn't sbout being paid directly, it was about splitting the BPO payments. Normally, the commission payment to agents by the closing company is accompanied by a letter from the broker instructing the closing agent to pay the agent, how much to pay them and how much to pay the brokerage.

You can play ostrich on this and bring up all kinds of issues (my name isn't transmitted with the BPO; I do it all at home and don't use any office facilities or supplies; the big 3 companies wouldn't do it if were illegal) but the facts are:

1. Your name is on documents, even drive-bys.
2. It doesn't matter where you do your work
3. Do you really think the "Big 3" companies really care about you? To them, you're a disposable product like a paper towel or hand soap. When you are gone, there will be someone else.

If you didn't have a broker, you wouldn't have an active license, your BPO companies would not send you work and you would be working in another field.

Who are the big 3?? Lebron, Wade, and Bosh?? lol.... I think toilet paper rhythms better with hand soap..... All kidding aside any realtor who doesn't like split their bpo earnings with their broker just take the brokers exam and open your own brokeage company and everyone is happy.... Its not that expensive in FL...

I feel that if the broker needs to split bpo fees s/he should be willing to train the agent. I for one learned all I know about reo/bpos thru sites like this. I do very few bpo now a days because of the pay and the cycle we are now in seams to be short sale and that is where I am employing my time and again I just do not get help from my broker. I go on line and study what other agents are doing.

In theory you are correct. However many brokers are competing brokers selling homes as well. They don't pass on any leads that will enhance your sales. That is why they also want a slice of the BPO business, it's easy money income for a broker now that they hear some agents are making six figures. In the beginning of the BPO story, brokers had the "don't ask, don't tell" approach, now it's all about the $ income from them even through they give no leads, pay no health care, have no profit sharing, offer little assistance to new agents and really don't care what expenses you incurred while having the pleasure of hanging your license with them. Brokers are hurting as much as the agents HOWEVER REO asset companies will turn over listings 1st the brokers, not the agents. The broker will then decide what agent, if any, can assist them in the reo sale where the big money is made. Many single brokers have 50-100 reo listings all assigned to the one brokers license (personally) bringing in 450-600K in direct income to the listing broker. Who wants a split of your BPO income ?
There are many brokers that are fair and will leave your BPO income to you as long as you being some sales to the office. You cost them nothing if you basically work from home and use all your own supplies like most do.
Those who hang around the office, use the phone, computer, paper and space SHOULD be on a different plan with the broker. You can BET that many different plans are offered that you are not aware of ( by design ), sit down and have a chat to see what they really are.. The law states that all money must go through the broker, it does not state that the broker is or should take a split of that service fee. It's not a commission and if you speak with different brokers, you will find many that agree in writing that your BPO work belongs to you and will acknowledge direct payments to you in writing. It's as simple as that and legal.

Florida

It may not be a commission but, the commission (as in FREC) has already made a determination that the broker 100% has to be paid directly when it comes to BPO's. A letter from your broker does not change this and is not a legal workaround.

Personally, I see no problem with an agent being paid directly for BPO's. I do however have a problem with a broker taking a split of BPO's. I don't see how someone could possibly make any money with regards to BPO's if a broker is skimming of the top. If you are actually taking your own photo's, filling out the forms yourself, the broker is skimming of the top, and you are still making a profit please let me know how you do this.

On a side note; after ten years I am finally taking my brokers class and thinking or opening my own office.

Without volume, it would not be worth it especially if the BPO's were only paying 0-$45.
A broker would have a logistical nightmare accepting the bpo payments directly to the office. They would not state who did the BPO and I can guarantee you would not be able to keep them on track no matter what they tell you. You would pick up triple the work to keep track of your own checks and on top of that pay the broker a split ?
I know many brokers that will grant you 100% of the bpo income. If your broker runs a small house and has few agents, he or she will probably want your income splits.
Just find one that is successful, understanding and has a office policy, structure that works for you and the broker fairly.
Office split policy has changed and differs greatly depending on the business model of the office.

Mine does it problem free and has provided me this service for many years, almost a decade. It has gotten a little more challenging since other agents have come aboard the BPO bandwagon. They manage well. All my income belongs to my broker first. Then per our agreement he pays me.

I am given 100% of BPO earnings and comissions.
I pay my broker about $1250 every month.
I work from home.

I pay my broker about $1250 every month.

How is this number figured?

What are you paying your broker $1,250 a month for? Whats the process for you to become your own broker in VA?

That figure would usually indicate "REMAX".

Hey BOSS--It's not as much as it seems. Most RE/MAX folkles pay a good bit more. At the end of the month the split, if you work it backwards based on what I take in usually is aroud 85/15--that's about an $8000 month. Of course no 2 months are alike, so that is approximate.

1) Pays for the REMAX balloon
2) Pays for shared office expense, which I do not use
Pays for personal expenses he fronts and I owe him in return such as E and O, MLS dues, etc.

I am a broker in VA so I suppose you were maybe asking why I have not gone out on my own. The cost of 1 and 2 would be my incentive, correct? That is about $900/month...say 10k a year for giggles and grins.

I have though it over, but that 10k is not going into my bank account.

I leave my broker, who is awesome by the way. I now get start up expenses of becoming a new broker and joining 3 MLS systems and other related start up costs of signs/cards etc.

I try and replace my $14/month E and O with a comparable policy that will likey run me 10 times as much.

I find someone to handle all of escrows and accoutning on a piece meal basis.

What would be left at the end of the year of that 10k? I am not really sure, but it is going to be a couple of grand maybe.

Also I lose the balloon. It is a very powerful brand that brings me at least a deal a year.

I am on the fence, leaning to staying put.

i decided i will get my brokers license , does anyone knows a good school here in central florida by gainesville area. i know gold coast school in south fl but its to far for spending 2 weeks in classes over there, any good broker course school?

bob hogue real estate school - is ok. they offer online classes

thanks

For some reason brokers exam was much easier for me than sales associate exam... Wish you luck!!!

i am studying right NOW. thanks for the luck

I do not have a bill in front of me but it goes something like this..
226 remax ad fund
400 broker fee
450 shared expenses
14 eo
150 mls dues
20 copier usage
10 postage