Agents Online Real Estate Forums, Discussion, Realtors Marketing Tips

Follow AgentsOnline on Twitter

Click Here to display our logo on your site and link to us!
AgentsOnline Real Estate Discussion Forums Logo

Realtor CommunityA popular online real estate community since 1998!


Advertisements


Sponsored Links
Advertisements
How To Advertise Here
How To Advertise Here

Good Idea!
Realtor Promotion Service

Sponsored Links
(Views)Popular Topics
I MAKE 100 COLD CALLS EVERY DAY & LOVE IT! 28495244
No new orders today 13139929
Stupid MLS comments. 3346919
What do you know about Froy Candelario, top agent in USA 1229549
Stupid QC comments and BPO requirements. 1102901
New HUD Listing Brokers---Any Update? 1056803
Is there religious content in Buffini class? 845637
Let's talk about our cars 698205
Name that Flick. Great movie Lines. 623195
Most common items found at an REO 618637
Pay it Forward - BPO/REO Tips & Tricks I & II 614361
REOTRANS 463043
EML 459235
Main Street 443926
asset val seminar in colorado 422431
assist 2 sell or 1 percent realty? 353509
HOMONYMS - There, Their, and They're 328734
Evalonline 300209
Land America 285053
Mainstreet 261860
Matched Content
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#461344 - 05/01/18 04:39 PM Price Fixing
StacyD Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/01/18
Posts: 3
Loc: Florida
how does price fixing factor into the ethical and legal guidelines for RE in Florida? Im in the market to buy, and there's a building with a lot of recent very high comps that all involved single broker. Most of the recent sales are either people moving within the building (and paying each other way over market price), as well as the broker buying some of the units over market from their own client and then having the client overpay for another one of their listings.

Example:

Broker A has listings in unit 1107 and 1824. 1107 is worth 850K and 1824 is worth 1.3M.

Broker A buys unit 1107 for 950K and then sells them unit 1824 for 1.5M. I assume he collects commissions on both to pay for the overpay on 1107. Maybe there's cash involved; but he owns several units so he benefits from higher prices and higher commissions on other units.

I know it's mortgage fraud if cash passes hands without disclosure, but these are a bunch of elderly rich people who probably pay cash. I'd like to buy into the building but I'm afraid that the prices are artificially inflated and that there's no real organic market at the current prices.

Is there anything unethical or illegal about such a practice?


Edited by StacyD (05/01/18 04:41 PM)

Top
Advertisements
#461371 - 05/04/18 09:58 AM Re: Price Fixing [Re: StacyD]
StacyD Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/01/18
Posts: 3
Loc: Florida
Nobody willing to touch this one with a 10 foot pole I see? So it's a common practice? The general view that *most* RE brokers are slime has truth to it?

Top
#461381 - 05/05/18 07:26 AM Re: Price Fixing [Re: StacyD]
Vermont Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 7837
Loc: Vermont's North-East Kingdom
I think you should encourage those Senior Citizens to lodge a formal complaint with the authorities because they're being paid way too much cash for their units in that condominium.
_________________________
Dale C. Hittle of GOLDEN RULE PROPERTIES in Glover, Vermont
Where We're Always Striving To Put Together "THE FAIR DEAL"

Top
#461384 - 05/06/18 10:31 AM Re: Price Fixing [Re: StacyD]
Bigtoe Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 2266
Loc: Outer Banks
I fail to see a problem here. Does that make me slime?

If you compare this scenario to most small towns where the residents sell their house and buy another house in the same town then I guess most small town buyers and sellers are price fixers.

"paying each other way over market price" How do you determine Market price? Market price is determined by how much buyers are willing to pay. If most buyers are willing to pay more than you are willing to pay it does not mean the market is fixed.

If what you say is true then buying in the building should be a very safe proposition since the rich owners are not likely to participate in a fire sale and the dominant agent in the building is working to support the prices as opposed to an agent who is scaring the owners into selling at a discount.
_________________________
Your Outer Banks real estate agent. Helping people buy and sell OBX real estate since 1989.

Top
#461385 - 05/06/18 10:32 AM Re: Price Fixing [Re: Vermont]
VABroker Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: 11/02/10
Posts: 1080
Loc: Virginia
I'm trying to find the angle where owner of unit A sells it higher yet turns around and buys unit B for even higher price. Where is the seller/buyer benefiting? "Stupid" is the only word that comes to mind. Although, I wouldn't doubt in the ultra-rich sector, they are more into bragging that they sold their unit for a higher price, and, of course, paid a HIGHER price to purchase the next unit ("because I'm so rich, you see."). Kind of like an expensive car versus a cheaper one. They both dent and crash the same way but it's much more "impressive" to say one spent a higher price to "impress" others. "Stupid" is still the word that comes to my mind. If no financing involved, so far I'm not seeing any fraud - just stupid people.


Edited by VABroker (05/06/18 10:33 AM)

Top
#461400 - 05/08/18 07:22 AM Re: Price Fixing [Re: StacyD]
Roadfrontage Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/16
Posts: 10
Loc: PA
I could see a situation if the broker was purchasing the lower tiered properties at a higher amount and that seller purchased a listing from that broker for an equally higher amount. This would have to happen several times over for it to take effect.

With the example given, the broker pays $100k over market and that seller buys at $200k over market. I find this hard to believe. Why would that seller over pay for an additional $100k, and what is the likelyhood enough owners in that building also knowingly over pay.

Then, of course, you need buyers from outside the building to also value the units at that inflated price. How do the units compare with the alternative choices those buyers have?

And finally, there is the burden of proof...Yes, if this was happening for the sole purpose of artificially inflating values there would be legal and ethical issues. However, you have to be able to prove it.

Top
#461415 - 05/09/18 05:46 AM Re: Price Fixing [Re: StacyD]
Bigtoe Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 2266
Loc: Outer Banks
It sounds like sour grapes. I sell in a second home/retirement market at the beach and hear this kind of talk from people who can't understand why our prices are so high compared to the lake back home. The last one claimed all the buyers he lost to were on crack because they all overpaid.
_________________________
Your Outer Banks real estate agent. Helping people buy and sell OBX real estate since 1989.

Top
#461441 - 05/10/18 02:39 PM Re: Price Fixing [Re: StacyD]
StacyD Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/01/18
Posts: 3
Loc: Florida
Big Toe needs to get a clue.

The broker is subsidizing the deals in some way. I don't know the details. If you're buying a unit from your neighbor, why are you 1) going through a broker and 2) listing it on the MLS? And why are you paying over market price (ie a higher price than what's ever been paid before?). You buy from y our neighbor you get a deal because its a fast sale and you don't need to pay a broker.

The broker is heavily invested in the building. So overpaying for a unit (he can sell it for no commission, so flipping is easy) he raises the price of the unit he owns. So he's paying $100K over market (he pockets a $65K commission), and he raises the value of the 3 units he owns $100k each. Then he sells the units at some absurd price to someone else in the building. Who knows the actual price paid?

Sell unit for $1.4M, give the guy a check for $200K after closing. There's no mortgage so it's not fraud.

This is clearly being done. I' m not some crackpot whining about high prices. My question is, is it considered fraudulent.

Lets make it simple. Suppose a broker owns 2 units worth 1M. He sells 1 of the units to a friend for 1.5M and writes him a check for 500K as a side deal, creating a sale/comp for 1.5M that he uses to list his other unit for 1.6M. Is there anything illegal about that; it seems to be fraud to me.


Edited by StacyD (05/10/18 02:44 PM)

Top
#461446 - 05/11/18 06:07 AM Re: Price Fixing [Re: StacyD]
Bigtoe Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 2266
Loc: Outer Banks
Originally Posted By: StacyD
but these are a bunch of elderly rich people who probably pay cash.


You say they are "probably" paying cash. You don't know this one important detail so you speculate. How much of the rest of your scenario is speculation? If you can speculate that fraud is being committed based on little or no facts then i can speculate also.

Do your research and learn the facts before you accuse someone of fraud, like who is getting de-frauded. The owners are not getting ripped off and you are not getting ripped off so where is the fraud?
_________________________
Your Outer Banks real estate agent. Helping people buy and sell OBX real estate since 1989.

Top
#461449 - 05/11/18 07:12 AM Re: Price Fixing [Re: StacyD]
Roadfrontage Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/16
Posts: 10
Loc: PA
StacyD, I think the problem here is nobody on this forum really knows all the facts. The info provided, doesn't make a lot of sense to outsiders looking in. There are pieces missing, and you shouldn't blame anyone here for making assumptions.
I don't know who you are, but I assume you are not licensed in real estate since you came on here to find answers. Since there is a broker involved in the situation at that building, I would suggest that this can be taken to the real estate commission. You may want to contact a local agent or broker who can confirm that something fishy is going on prior to making a complaint. Sale history, etc, can help strengthen your argument.
Most of us are not attorneys/lawyers and therefor can't truly assist you in matters of law. It is outside of our scope of practice. As for general knowledge of your situation, I would assume the average agent/broker can make it through their career without experiencing it.

Top
#461463 - 05/12/18 06:49 AM Re: Price Fixing [Re: StacyD]
Bigtoe Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 2266
Loc: Outer Banks
Originally Posted By: StacyD


The broker is subsidizing the deals in some way. I don't know the details


Before you file a complaint you had better get some details or you could find yourself facing a defamation lawsuit.


Edited by Bigtoe (05/12/18 06:50 AM)
_________________________
Your Outer Banks real estate agent. Helping people buy and sell OBX real estate since 1989.

Top






Google Custom Forum Search

This Google Custom search may do a better job of searching the forums for some keywords than the old forum search does. The results do not include threads from the Asset Managers Forum however. To search that forum you will need to be actually in the Asset Managers Forum and you will need to use the old forum search below.
Search

Newest Members
GoGetter84, AmericanProperty, SDagent, LocalRealEstate, eis
30134 Registered Users
Who's Online
0 registered (), 70 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
Team Sztanyo 33
Trouble 17
kirastan 16
Z06Fanatic 16
estatereal 12
Bigtoe 11
LuG 11
Mr. Clean 11
RonnieEmz 10
VABroker 9
Vermont 9
cathyCZ18 8
newagent2028 5
leaf fan 4
sualk54 4
Featured Member
Registered:
Posts: 2
Facebook

How To Advertise Here


This site presented by RNC Internet Services