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#400002 - 01/30/12 08:05 PM Buyer wouldn't pay for the rent, daily penalty after passing the closing.
pro Offline
Member

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 70
Loc: Virginia

I am a dual agent on this deal. The commission is only 1.5% altogether.

The sellers moved on the 8th of January to my surprise before the closing.

The buyer couldn't get a loan and failed to close on Jan 10th. The sellers extended to 20th. I sent email to the buyer that he has to pay for the rent for the days after the defaulted closing date until the closing. 20th passed again and we are set to close on Feb. 1st.

I sent out addendum to the buyer 10 days ago to pay for the rent and he's not signning it. Now the buyer say he won't pay for the rent. His attorney advised that only case he has to pay for the rent is when he is in possession of the house.

My leverage to persuade sellers to extend the closing was to give them the rent they are paying now.

What are my options here?

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#400011 - 01/30/12 08:42 PM Re: Buyer wouldn't pay for the rent, daily penalty after passing the closing. [Re: pro]
Vermont Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 4726
Loc: Vermont's North-East Kingdom
Take the rent out of your Commission . . . . IF there is one.

Where else can it possibly come from?

You promised to refund the Sellers their rent; but never got a commitment from the Buyers to pay it . . . . which leaves you holding the bag. Sending the Buyers an email dosen't cut it!

So that's where being a Dual Agent gives you the opportunity to keep both of your Clients happy by taking it out of your own pocket.

Even if there isn't a Closing, I suspect that the Sellers will come looking for you anyway. They were relying on you when they vacated . . . . right ?
_________________________
Dale C. Hittle of GOLDEN RULE PROPERTIES in Glover, Vermont
Where We're Always Striving To Put Together "THE FAIR DEAL"

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#400015 - 01/30/12 10:02 PM Re: Buyer wouldn't pay for the rent, daily penalty after passing the closing. [Re: Vermont]
pro Offline
Member

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 70
Loc: Virginia
I have already promised the sellers that I would give the rent from my commission if the buyer didn't pay. No problem on that part.

I now doubt that the buyer would pay the rent even if he signed the addendum-email agreement is bound to the law as well and he now refuses to pay.

.....

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#400017 - 01/30/12 10:30 PM Re: Buyer wouldn't pay for the rent, daily penalty after passing the closing. [Re: pro]
shana Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 1602
Loc: Nevada
nope, simply sending someone an email is not necessarily legally binding. where is the mutual consent?

assuming there was no express agreement by the buyer in the accepted offer, the buyer has no obligation. buyer's attorney is probably correct.

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#400022 - 01/30/12 11:37 PM Re: Buyer wouldn't pay for the rent, daily penalty after passing the closing. [Re: pro]
DueDiligence Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 1265
Loc: Wild Wild West
What's this daily penalty thing you're talking about? Was this part of the original contract? It sure doesn't sound like it was because you say this was YOUR (I can't believe this) leverage to persuade the seller to extend.

Anyway, this extension to the 20th-- how exactly was that accomplished? Did you write an addendum that both seller and buyer signed? And in that addendum I guess you didn't put in anything telling the buyer he was expected to pay "rent" on a house he's not actually in possession of in order to get the extension, correct? Instead you send him an email that says he has to pay this "rent"? Is that about right?

So, basically you kinda more or less sorta tricked the seller into agreeing to an extension by telling him that the buyer would pay him "rent", but more or less sorta kinda didn't tell the buyer that was the deal in order to get the seller to extend.

Lovely.

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#400023 - 01/30/12 11:40 PM Re: Buyer wouldn't pay for the rent, daily penalty after passing the closing. [Re: shana]
pro Offline
Member

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 70
Loc: Virginia
Email mutually agreed. He gave me firm words on several occasions when we met and on the phone when extending the closing.

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#400024 - 01/31/12 12:07 AM Re: Buyer wouldn't pay for the rent, daily penalty after passing the closing. [Re: DueDiligence]
pro Offline
Member

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 70
Loc: Virginia
I told the sellers that they will be paid for the rent by the buyer and if the buyer does not pay, I will pay out of my commission. They know it's coming anyway. I even pay for the elec. and gas for the rental house for them.

The buyer promised to pay the rent on a few occasions and on the email back to me before extending to 20th. I sent out an addendum for the rent on the 20th as he promised, but he got chickened out when he saw the actual adddendum. He didn't reply to me for a week and later came back to me he won't pay the rent. When I explain to him about email legality and other conversations we had and asked him to consult his lawyer again, he said he still didn't feel like he wanted to pay.

So I didn't tricked the sellers into agreeing to an extension (they clearly know/have known the rent is coming to them anyway).
And I didn't even sorta kinda hide from the buyer that the rent payment was the deal to extend.

And for the penalty, the daily rent is what it is and, again, it was mutually agreed upon on the email and conversations.
I didn't impose penalty for $200 per day to the buyer-I want him to pay for the minimal he can do, just the daily rent. That's why he first agreed before he changed his mind completely.

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#400027 - 01/31/12 12:16 AM Re: Buyer wouldn't pay for the rent, daily penalty after passing the closing. [Re: DueDiligence]
pro Offline
Member

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 70
Loc: Virginia
He knows the sellers won't delare default no matter what-he's in default anyway but doesn't care. He even said to me that his friend extended for three months.

He didn't sign the extension either saying that we can just go to close.

He expresses it's very hard to sell a house in this market especially in this cold season.

So even with all the fancy addendi signed by him, if he chooses not to follow them, he feels it's still safe not following them. That's my conclusion from this buyer.
Well...

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#400028 - 01/31/12 12:20 AM Re: Buyer wouldn't pay for the rent, daily penalty after passing the closing. [Re: pro]
super realtor Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 05/01/05
Posts: 8479
Loc: georgia
Man I don't know how brokers/agents get into these messes!!

In our GA contracts there is a section that spells out how notice and communication is to be legally binding.

So if mail is checked and fax in the contract then that is binding.Even if you have e-mails it would not count as that is not checked by the agents and the buyer and seller as an acceptable form of communication.

So read your contract for the purchase and sale real carefully.If e-mail is not listed and selected as an acceptable form of communication then the buyer could argue to a judge that it is non-enforecable. Anything that is vague,not clarified in an agreement,or is open to interpretation by the parties and not clearly spelled out and agreed to by everyone can be deemed non-enforecable or admissable in a court of law.

At 1.5% you aren't hardly making anything.No legal advice

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#400047 - 01/31/12 08:32 AM Re: Buyer wouldn't pay for the rent, daily penalty after passing the closing. [Re: super realtor]
pro Offline
Member

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 70
Loc: Virginia
Seeing what I have gone thru with this transaction, powerful man is above the law even in the US.

Powerful man..that is the buyer nowadays.

*it was supposed to be a 4.5% dual agent commission. I gave 3% to narrow the differences b/t the buyer's offer and the sellers's asking. Some deal is better than no deal. 1.5% is $8000 here and I still like it...minus $1600 for the rent btw. Oh dear...

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#400064 - 01/31/12 11:04 AM Re: Buyer wouldn't pay for the rent, daily penalty after passing the closing. [Re: super realtor]
DueDiligence Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 1265
Loc: Wild Wild West
You may send contract writings via email (as an attachment), via fax, or or via regular mail. Those forms of "notice" methods are considered "legal"-- meaning that proper delivery of a writing was made. However, an email that says, "You must do this" absent an attached "writing" to be signed and made a part of the contract, is not "legally binding". Even if via return email the recipient says, "Yeah, okay". So, the contents of EMAILS are not "legally binding" in and of themselves. Contract writings attached to emails satisfy the requisite for acceptable "legal" delivery of such, only.

At this time, there is no contract absent an addendum to extend it. The escrow apparently still remains open absent cancellation by one of the parties. But there is no contract that can be enforced.

No legal advice, and for general informational purposes only. Seek the advice of an attorney.

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#400076 - 01/31/12 01:52 PM Re: Buyer wouldn't pay for the rent, daily penalty after passing the closing. [Re: DueDiligence]
pro Offline
Member

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 70
Loc: Virginia
Email contents as well as verbal agreements are all legally binding as far as it contains necessary ingredients such as an offer, an acceptance, consideration (value exchanged) and a lawful purpose, the same with an email attachment or a dove relaying a note.

Enforceability is another story.

And the buyer knows it that the I wouldn't try to enforce it.

You can't do anything if the buyer wouldn't sign an addendum and the closing is coming up. What do you do? Bring the buyer to the court? Or break the deal because he's not signing? LOL!

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#400077 - 01/31/12 02:21 PM Re: Buyer wouldn't pay for the rent, daily penalty after passing the closing. [Re: pro]
DueDiligence Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 1265
Loc: Wild Wild West
The Statute of Frauds requires that all conveyances or leasing of real property be in writing, signed by both parties. Any changes or modifications must also be in writing and signed by the parties.

This necessity for real estate transactions to be in writing, signed by the parties, differs from other contracts in that some contracts between parties, or other agreements involving mutual promises can be verbal and are dependent on the actions of the parties. Those are the contract elements to which you are referring.

You were "out of contract" when the first closing date passed and the buyer and seller had not signed an addendum to the contract. There is no contract at this time. The buyer chose NOT to sign an addendum to extend the contract terms, the contract died. No one has to perform. No, you can't bring the buyer to court, and you cannot make him buy the property or do anything at this point; in fact, he is unbound by anything to close escrow by any time whatsoever. If he does, he does. If he doesn't, he doesn't. You essentially have no deal.

Seek the counsel of an attorney. No legal advice.

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#400079 - 01/31/12 02:39 PM Re: Buyer wouldn't pay for the rent, daily penalty after passing the closing. [Re: DueDiligence]
pro Offline
Member

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 70
Loc: Virginia
Are you still saying that "email and verbal agreements are NOT leagally binding?" It has a broader meaning than you think.

And no, I won't bring the buyer to the court because he's not signing an addendum. Are you kidding me? LOL!

Of course we are out of contract once the buyer passed the closing, but he is in default! The sellers can demand EMD and/or bring the buyer to the court-things are getting more interesting from this point, aren't they? But the sellers decided not to pursue as they know I will give them the rent they want.

I won't seek the counsel of an attorney. We are closing tomorrow. The buyer and the sellers got what they want. I also got what I want (minus 20% cool ). We are all happy in the end. dancingguy


Edited by pro (01/31/12 02:41 PM)

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#400084 - 01/31/12 03:10 PM Re: Buyer wouldn't pay for the rent, daily penalty after passing the closing. [Re: pro]
Vermont Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 4726
Loc: Vermont's North-East Kingdom
Originally Posted By: pro
We are all happy in the end.

So . . . . why are we even discussing this ?
_________________________
Dale C. Hittle of GOLDEN RULE PROPERTIES in Glover, Vermont
Where We're Always Striving To Put Together "THE FAIR DEAL"

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#400088 - 01/31/12 03:33 PM Re: Buyer wouldn't pay for the rent, daily penalty after passing the closing. [Re: pro]
shana Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 1602
Loc: Nevada
"Are you still saying that "email and verbal agreements are NOT leagally binding?" It has a broader meaning than you think."


you're making a very broad statement here. under some circumstances, email exchanges may be valid, typically in terms of clarifying ambiguous contract elements. It depends on multiple factors that a court would need to consider, based on existing case law. I doubt that even an attorney would make such a broad statement, as you have done above.

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#400091 - 01/31/12 04:42 PM Re: Buyer wouldn't pay for the rent, daily penalty after passing the closing. [Re: shana]
pro Offline
Member

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 70
Loc: Virginia
How about someone saying that email and verbal agreements are NOT leagally binding?

Do you think so too?

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#400110 - 01/31/12 09:49 PM Re: Buyer wouldn't pay for the rent, daily penalty after passing the closing. [Re: pro]
shana Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 1602
Loc: Nevada
I'm saying you cannot generalize. you need to know the specific case law, and only attorneys can give qualified legal opinions.

every day I encounter people, often uneducated people, who claim to know a particular legal issue beyond a doubt. I find this comical.

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#400115 - 01/31/12 11:04 PM Re: Buyer wouldn't pay for the rent, daily penalty after passing the closing. [Re: shana]
pro Offline
Member

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 70
Loc: Virginia
That's exactly what I am saying: you cannot generalize.

The person I was talking to bluntly assumes email contents are not legally binding.

"Legally binding wordings" possess a fish of interpretations which should be dealt with individually.

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#400116 - 01/31/12 11:06 PM Re: Buyer wouldn't pay for the rent, daily penalty after passing the closing. [Re: Vermont]
DueDiligence Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 1265
Loc: Wild Wild West
Originally Posted By: Vermont
Originally Posted By: pro
We are all happy in the end.

So . . . . why are we even discussing this ?


Originally Posted By: Vermont
Originally Posted By: pro
We are all happy in the end.

So . . . . why are we even discussing this ?


This forum is amazing, isn't it? Barely 48 hours ago, the OP asked us, "What can I do?" And then, having gotten responses that basically were of the "What on earth have you done?" variety-- magically, it's all fixed!

Are we good or what?

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#400136 - 02/01/12 07:50 AM Re: Buyer wouldn't pay for the rent, daily penalty after passing the closing. [Re: DueDiligence]
pro Offline
Member

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 70
Loc: Virginia
I was asking what my options are in this case.

I got all the responses from the fellow Americans here and I appreciate it. I learned something from them and maybe they did as well.

That's the main purpose of the forum-exchange of ideas and opinios, I guess, rather than having to fix something.

I am trying to live a happy life. My commissions are reduced 20% but I am still trying to be happy. dancingguy

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#400166 - 02/01/12 02:41 PM Re: Buyer wouldn't pay for the rent, daily penalty after passing the closing. [Re: pro]
pro Offline
Member

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 70
Loc: Virginia
Update:

I was pleasantly surprised to know today that right after the closing the buyer did give me the rent...with all cash! WOW! My hands were a little shaking when receiving it. LOL!

He also asked me if I can help his cousin buy a condo. I said no problem.

I called the sellers to let them know of this shocking turnaround and they were as happy as I was. I am to have a drink with the sellers tonight. It will be my treat!~

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