Its getting more and more ridiculous with these BPO companies and their low fees. They keep lowering the fees and yet increase the amount of info required, i.e MLS sheets for each listing, more uploads and more pictures. I will not get in my car for $40 for an exterior. Why are agents so willing to work for peanuts. Do the math folks, it isn't worth your time for $40. If you stop accepting these, the companies will be forced to increase their payments!!! Oh one more thing then they QC you to death on little items that they want you to change to suite their clients. Then why hire me to give an accurate BPO when you want values changed?

No, the order will just go to one of the many agents that will accept it at that price.

Its just economics 101, basic supply and demand. The supply of agents is high, the demand for BPOs not growing. As they lower prices, people like your self will fall out of the supply, and an equilibrium point is reached.

Its not going to get any better. And I expect to see further price drops so long as the real estate sales market remains weak and the unemployment rate remains high.

You are absolutely right!
I have figured it why this is happening.
Companies are competing for BPO business and they lower they initial fees to get more business like FARVV did.
Then they pass that to us and try us to do it cheaper.
You are right,once they have nobody to do them they will give you more.
They get anywhere form $95 to $125 for exterior but try to squeeze you for $40 !Let THEM MAKE $30 AND GIVE YOU $65!
I already been witness that things will only go up and not down as I refuse to do it for less .
Also those newbies will get into business this way but not for very long.

I've stopped working for peanuts for the most part. I recently told a company that needed mls sheets that it would cost them extra. They choose to reassign it and thats fine.
With EML at $40 now I never accept them and if I have time I decline it with comments on the low fee. I realize nobody even looks at it most likely.
Another company called me about a $15 pcr that sounded urgent and I asked for $50 and got it. It was out a ways though.
Got another call on a bpo for a company I rarely work for and I told him I was kinda busy so he asked how much to get it done. In a moment of weakness I said $75 and he was good with it. I should of asked for more maybe.
Yes, I understand that they have other options as I do.
I just bought another fixer upper where I'll hope to clear $40k after resale in six months. Let me see - how many bpos would that be? Granted I'm in a position to invest in these houses but it is work too.

the lenders and big players in the real estate industry exploit people...it's what they do...and they can do it because they control the industry. they can always find a newbie to take it up the rear.

Yeah, I stopped doing the $40 BPOs and only worked with the comanies that paid $50 and up. My volume dropped by about 40-50% because so many companies have gone to $40. I need some cash now, so I'm picking them up at $40 again and my volume is probably a little bit better than it was before I stopped doing them. Last week was perhaps my busiest ever, but at $40.

The thing is, many agents look at it as a $10 hit I think. I look at it as a $1,000 or $1,500 hit every month if all my BPOs go to $40. But if I don't accept the $40 orders, I lose even more....it sucks. Not sure what the answer is, it is just basic supply and demand as was mentioned. I could really use that extra $1,000/month though.

Absolutely agreed with Alwaysthenewbie. It's better to make money with $40 orders than sit around and make nothing. I used to reject orders that were below $50, and I found myself with only few companies who were willing to pay $50. When I called others who used to send me tons of work, they responded that my fees are too high and they have agents who work for slightly less fees. So, I decided to reduce my fee by $4, and within last 2 weeks I am receiving a decent amount of work and not to far from my office.
Lesson learned, but I had to dive into my savings while trying to figure out why I was not getting orders :-((

Who are you to tell people what they should and should not work for? Joe Blow is sitting at his table listening to his wife yell and his kids scream for food. You want to sit down there and tell them why he should not work for $40? I do not do $40 orders. I am in a better position than many and can afford to be a bit selective. But, I understand the plight of many in this economy. I sympathise with those that have to make ends meet and fully understand their urgency to make coin in order to do so. Sorry, I can make decisions on what I will work for, but I am certainly in no position to tell others how to run their business.

Everyone has their own income needs. There are those that would say someone is nuts for doing a 40 buck BPO. There are also those that would say someone else is nuts for doing BPOs at any price. And there are even those that will not accept any listing under a half million bucks. So who are we to judge each other?
There's a sage old comment about not judging another until you've walked a mile in their shoes.
That gives you a mile head start and they're chasing you in bare feet. Had to add my wise a-- comment, just couldn't stop myself.
The needs of each vary widely.

Clearly there's more than one point of view on this topic. I certainly have compassion for those less fortunate than me. I have friends & family who are struggling and / or out of work. I know it's tough out there.
And I don't care if others choose to do a bpo for a buck frankly or free even, unless it effects me which it does. I feel that others who are accepting these underpaying orders are preventing me from making a "fair" wage for the work provided. Am I being selfish? Maybe.
I sense that many of these agents working for nearly nothing are in their circumstance as a result of their own actions or inactions. Seriously. Probably years of living beyond their own means, keeping up with the Joneses, too many new cars, too many charge cards, bad money management, etc. I'm not saying all, but many I suspect.
I'm sure plenty of yous will disagree with my point of view, so be it.

I made 3 figures last year doing $40 BPOS. Combined with my auto fill software that I wrote my own codes for, I worked about 9-6 hours a day.

So basically, its not peanuts to me. Sorry if it is to others.

Well, of course it effects you. It also effects every laborer at McDonalds that someone else will work there for $6/hr when they'd like to make $10/hr. This is no different. The guy who wants $10 can sit around and wait until McD's decides to pay him that, but the number of people who have the skills necessary to do the job are plentiful, which means there are a number of people who will do it for $6.

While fewer people possess the skills to do a BPO than work at McDs, it's more plentiful now than it was 3 years ago. It's not like there's a huge barrier to entry for gaining these skills and doing the work either.

I know 5 years ago, when I started doing BPOs, I found out about them from another agent who worked for my Mom's company who thought it was crazy to do work for $50. It wasn't worth it to her. So many agents looked down at it. I, however, just left a corporate job and figured, if I did 10 a month it would be an extra $500 in spending money. How things changed and now I do up to 90 a month while selling commercial full time.

Now, I go to short sales and all the agents say, "How many do you do a month? How can I get into this? Do you need any help?" Some of them will take my bread away from me, others will stay wondering how it happened. I never answer their questions with all the info - no need to help the competition, but it really comes down to me being willing to do something that they weren't that got me into this position, which is better than some. Now, there's others who are willing to things I'm not. That's life.

How is this any different then cutting your commission? If you choose to list at 5% thats up to you. I turned down a listing a seller wanted to list at $350 because it wasn't worth it. Sholuld be listed at $310. Another agent took it and he still has it 8 months later. I did not want to deal with the drama, but another agent did, his choice. If a BPO company wants to pay $40 and agent takes it, then its their choice. I still get them at $50, did two yesterday that were on my way to a rekey I had to do. Off set my gas and then some. I have two more due Tuesday, both at $50 each and they are on my way to my office, which I have to go in on Monday anyway. I do not think that agents taking bpos at $40 is bad, I do think if you get a call asking you to do one, you should try to up your fee. Heck, I still get calls from Ocwen, they have a state broker here, so I turn them down, since I only do BPOs for companies that list reos. They blast 10-15 BPOs a day, and agents pick them up at $39 a pop, but my phone still rings. I have had them offer $100 for an exterior due in 48 hours, but no amount of money would get me to work for them. We all can set our own fees, which is part of being our own boss. I agree with the posts above that talk about how reo agents were looked at years ago, and now we get calls from agents asking us how we did it. Everyone thought I was a nut 10 years ago, and now they all want this business. I turn down business now that I would not have turned down when I first started. If other agents need it, take it, fine with me. I remember when I first started, I had to decide how I was gonna pay my bills. I had to call my mortgage company and tell them I couldn't make my payment. I called a freind of mine who was a manager at Wells and he helped me make a buisness plan, which I followed. The most important question he asked me to answer was what was my niche. I chose to focus on reo even though I had only ever sold one. I sold real estate flat out to anyone who would listen and I caught up in two months. Before you judge anyone, think about having to put your head down on your pillow knowing that you are deep in debt, wtih no income. The irony is I now sell reo, to pay my bills.

Here's my $40 worth, or should I say $39. A year ago at this time I was coming off a slow summer, a dead September and a not promising Oct., worst period in 11 years. Currently coming off an OK summer, a "good" September and now into a promising October, largely on the backs of companies that are not highly regarded on this forum.

Along the way I have automated input, we can kick around how you do it, but if you don't do it, you are limiting your profitability per order.

My experience has been to deliver for the "not highly regarded" and receive volume and "perk" orders and preferred pricing, IE rush orders, distance orders and individually negotiated pricing that comes with $10 to $40 dollar price upgrades. As a rule I do avoid slow payers and I use the forum to avoid no payers.

It can work, but you do have to be flexible and adaptable.

3 figures?

IMHO, having this discussion (over and over) in a public forum only perpetuates the price cutting from the players/payers.

I would be surprised if any fee decisions were influenced by this dicussion or any other discussion here. If they somehow did make decisions based on these discussions, I am not certain how this one would drive them in one direction or the other...

LMAO, I thought the same thing....

yep, that is necessary when you're takin' it up the rear.

Haha, more to his point, I think he makes so much that the first 3 digits don't even count anymore. $1,000 being 1 figure

I would think that it's the 1st three digits (on the left) which count the most ?

$100,000 / $56.50 (avg of 1 drive by at $49 & 1 interior at $64) = 1,770 BPOs / 365 days in a year = 4.9 BPOs/day -- and lots of you say you can do 7-12 BPOs a day (yeah, right) so there ought to be some people earning twice that.

I do $40 bpos and make plenty of profit. Not everyone's business is the same so you need to understand that it might work for other people. So to answer your question, yes it is worth my time.

Ummmm....I can 7 BPOs a day, but not 12. Back with the old CW form, I could crank those out and have done 15 in a day. However all that being said, those days are gone with forms and general requirements being longer thus more time consuming.

A six digit income is realistic depending upon various factors like volume, your proximity/drive time to where most of your reports are, and the amount of interiors you can do. My goal is to make as much money as I can when I drive to 123 Main Street. Therefore in my old age, I am preferring interiors. I say that as there was a time I would avoid them completely due to access issues.


More and more interior orders are vacant in my area, thus the access issues have been greatly reduced for me. Why they are vacant, I'm not sure but perhaps to an increase percentage of abandonment. I have all the different Kwick Set keys, so even if the lockbox is missing I can get in most of the time if they have been rekeyed by the AM or preservation company.

BTW, I would estimate I work a 50-55 hour work week including drive time for photos.

Yup! I'm rich!

I mean, 3 in front of the comma.

I think that in 50% of cases they will increase your fee if you ask for it. I do it all the time with EML and have never been turned down....Then again the properties tend to be in BFE

I haven't done many in awhile.Now I have completed 3 in the last 2 weeks for AVM.

Pay is 50 to 55 for exterior.They give me 3 to 4 days to complete and the properties are about 2 miles or less from where I live.

I think they don't have to cut fees as much because they are a minority (women) owned company.

I am a guy but the minority part probably helps them as a company.

I have know other business owners to put corps and other things in their wives name so that they can get special loans etc. It is sad but the majority is actually discriminated against these days.

I like AVM because they give 24hrs to accept and I check MLS to make sure I have easy 3 sold 3 active in a spec subdivision before accepting.

Bpo fees are not different from flexible commission fees (it was mentioned today in this topic). Every person has goals and business plan to follow. Yet, with today's economy, more of our sellers and buyers are holding back because the weakness in the job market and tough lending guidelines are creating a drag on buyer confidence and demand. With all aspects in mind (working with sellers, buyers, showings, and waiting for maybe 3 months to close the deal), the BPO business may provide good cash flow to support us (agents) between sale transactions. Not to mention, some of us (me), feel good to support my parents who live oversees (how about $54/month for Social Security Aid there). I take $40 orders and some of them are just 10 minutes to finish. Not eML, sorry.

what will you agents do if all of the states pass legislation to allow only licensed appraisers to do BPO's? you'll either stay in real estate and starve, or get a min. wage job at the local department store.

Not to sound naive, but I don't see that happening. I'm not saying that out of wishful thinking, but its only the appraisers and their lobbing group that wants to bar BPOs or severely limit them. More importantly, banks want them as an inexpensive valuation alternative to appraisals.

If the whole bank bail-out/TARP fiasco taught us anything is that whatever the banks want, they will get. They have the muscle to have their desires met with appraisers either looking to adapt or find other work. I think BPOs are here to stay and because of that fees will continue to fall as the demand for them grows as well as the amount of people doing them increasing as well.

Now you know why scabs got the beating of their lives back in the 1930's when they were trying to end child labor, unfair wages, unsafe working conditions and also create something that we take for granted - the weekend and a 40hr work week.


"Alexis de Tocqueville once described what he saw as a chief part of the peculiar genius of American society—something he called “self-interest properly understood.” The last two words were the key. Everyone possesses self-interest in a narrow sense: I want what’s good for me right now! Self-interest “properly understood” is different. It means appreciating that paying attention to everyone else’s self-interest —in other words, the common welfare—is in fact a precondition for one’s own ultimate well-being. Tocqueville was not suggesting that there was anything noble or idealistic about this outlook—in fact, he was suggesting the opposite. It was a mark of American pragmatism. Those canny Americans understood a basic fact: looking out for the other guy isn’t just good for the soul—it’s good for business."

Source: http://www.vanityfair.com/society/features/2011/05/top-one-percent-201105.print

It is possible that may be some middle ground between these two points...Who posted this anyway...oh, now I get it.

LMAOROTF............slow day?........lol

FYI...excessive laughing is a sign of mental weakness.

the current environment in real estate has essentialy turned the multitudes of sales agents into low paid BPO/valuation agents, at least in those states where it is legal. Maybe we are seeing the ghetto-ization of the real estate industry? Is this the future of real estate practice? A strange turn for the industry, indeed.

Tell me you don't read Vanity Fair.

I look at it this way. Prior to being in real estate, I had a different job for which a master's degree is a minimum requirement. Right out of grad school, I was hired in a position at $20/hr. This was actually an error on the part of human resources, as most newbies in this job earn less than that. My supervisors with several years of experience were earning the same thing the newbies were at this place.

So say I take a $40 BPO. If it took me two hours to complete it, I'd be making $20 an hour which is what I was earning in that job. But it rarely takes me a full 2 hours to do a BPO, even with drive time. So I'm probably averaging more than that per hour.

In my previous job, I'd arrive before the sun came up and leave after the sun went down. Working in a mainly windowless area of the building. And having to attend mandatory lunchtime meetings every single day so I couldn't ever leave to run errands or get some peace and quiet. And since I was on salary, all the extra hours above 40 per week were basically unpaid.

Working BPOs, I can control my schedule and my environment to a great degree. I can stop somewhere and go to the bathroom whenever I want instead of having to wait a couple of hours for a break in my schedule. And believe it or not, this job is actually a bit less of a paperwork blizzard than my previous job.

At any rate, it beats the heck out of cashiering in Target for $8 an hour or something like that. If you can even find a job. A friend of mine who was recently hiring for a very part-time $10/hr assistant was shocked at the zillions of resumes she received, including from people who had a PhD and so forth.

People being asked to do more for less is not just happening in our industry. People in all sorts of fields are seeing this. At least we have the option of figuring out ways to work smarter and cut certain costs. Auto-fill, choosing a more efficient route when taking pictures, using a more fuel-efficient vehicle, etc.

This all goes back to the Glass Half Full, Glass Half Empty analogy.

It's all in how you view it.

If you are sitting in front of your computer reading this and longing for the "good old days", you've already planned to fail

Everyone can choose to work for whatever pay they require. Everyone that is except the Occupy protesters that is. They have a different business model. I however have just fired another mill that pays such a low amount per order, QC's everything to get me to skew my value and constantly sends me a ridiculous score card. Done! On top of that the condescending QC rep was insulting to me when I refused to redo an order to meet the "clients" value using comps found on Trulia that were in no way matches to my subject. I could make more money at Wal-Mart and not have to plan to testify in court over a false value. Actually, I'll just now have more time to work onthe "real" business of actually selling homes. BPO

@TexasGal just nailed my feelings to the tee. I was a sales manager at a very large telco, making pretty good bread, great benefits and pretty secure. I was also miserable, stressed out of my mind, dealing with ridiculous politics and a host of other issues. I got back into real estate and while I list here and there, BPOs are my main source of bread. Guess what? I still do pretty well at this business. I tweak my processes on an ongoing basis and I work on my own terms. I know how much money I need to make for this to be worthwhile and it still is well worth my while. I have not done any $40 orders though. But if it got down to where there was no food on the table and bills were falling behind, I would. I would not come to the forum and seek approval either...lol. People have to do what they have to do to make ends meet. It kind of blows my mind that folks step in here and tell absolute strangers what they should and should not work for.
This is a grind, I work my tail off. But, I do not regret it for a minute. There are slews of industries getting more out of people and paying them less. I am still able to make good bread doing this, just have to step back and reexamine processes quite frequently..

ghetto-ization.. now thats funny..

For myself been doing "those BPOs" as others in my office call it with thier noses up in the air. For some time now, well before it was the trendy thing for agenst to do. I get to take my princess to school, enjoy her growing up. "Those Bpos" have put 2 kids through college allowing them to begin life with no education debt. They continue to fund retirement. I get to work as hard as I want when I want. Not be on call 24/7 I can go on and on. They are not for everyone, but to be back in the corporate suit & tie jungle no thanks.

Here is what I do: I watch the orders get blasted out. I watch them sit there. I wait a day and then I get the call. "We have an order in your area, blah, blah, blah....we will pay you in peanuts ($40).....etc." I name my price $60, $65, $70 and the Rep says: "Great. When can you submit it?" I have the advantage of being in a rural area and no one wants to drive all over for $40. So, I can name my price.

Not nearly as much as internet trolling.

I thought about doing that-- naming my own price, because I can see that the companies are having huge problems getting anyone in my rural area to work anymore. Many of the agents who were doing BPOs have quit RE, are working only PT in RE. But, I have a strong suspicion that if I name my own price I a) Will get paid the $40 anyway, and/or b) Won't get paid at all.

I think it'd be real easy for the company rep to say "Sure!" to my counter-offer just to get the BPO done. Agree to anything to get it done. Maybe the answer is a PayPal account where I ask for $650 up front for 10 BPOs in the next 60 days.

Shucks - I was so happy to watch and see that no one took was taking the bait of our pesky little troll - until I saw this.

King - congratulations btw - you worked hard and smart - it is good to see you succeed.

Now I just hope you (King) inspire others to work smarter.

Why are agents so willing to work for peanuts. Do the math folks, it isn't worth your time for $40. If you stop accepting these, the companies will be forced to increase their payments!!!


Who are you to tell people what they should and should not work for? Joe Blow is sitting at his table listening to his wife yell and his kids scream for food. You want to sit down there and tell them why he should not work for $40? I do not do $40 orders. I am in a better position than many and can afford to be a bit selective. But, I understand the plight of many in this economy. I sympathise with those that have to make ends meet and fully understand their urgency to make coin in order to do so. Sorry, I can make decisions on what I will work for, but I am certainly in no position to tell others how to run their business.




My response to Smg

If you desire to make $15 an hour go right ahead. I have done BPO's for 5 years, but only as a supplement to my REO sales, when companies that I have always been in good standing with and performed quality reports lowered their fees to $40 I stopped accepting. So I'm telling agents stop letting these companies low ball you, especially now that most mills want alot more info such as full MLS sheets on all comps, more pics. more QC etc. What would you rather make $40 or $55 per order? From reading through this thread ,the longer orders sit without being accepted, the smart agents are replying and asking for more money and getting it!

I think the OP is ignorant of the Sherman Antirust Act. In a nutshell, Realtors cannot try to price-fix a free market in terms of commission setting or fee setting like in BPOs. For your suggested reading.

http://factoidz.com/the-real-estate-industry-is-subject-to-antitrust-laws-2/

I think you are missing the point some of us are saying. While $40 may be a "lowball" to you, some of us dont see them as lowballs. In fact, $40 fits perfectly into our some of our business models. Like I said before, I did a lot of $40 dollar orders last year. Thanks to form filling software (with macros I created myself), I was able to accept more orders at lower fees, make more money than I ever have, spend more time with my family, etc.

I am sorry that the $40 dollar orders do not fit your business model. But I'm not so sorry about it that I am going to abandon mine.

Good luck.

Brad as always I am grateful for your input - the but - we really do need to be careful about suggesting fees we should work for as it could be described as 'collusion' and organized 'boycotting' to set fees. I would rather not have to worry about it - that is just my take on it.

Actually reading the Author's opinion from the link you provided indicates to me that the 'OP' and my feelings may be just. We may see things differently - If I'm wrong this isn't bad advice - it is wrong advice - the other way around would make the advice really bad.

again - this is just my cautionary opinion. Also, Bard's link, even though it is a well watered down version describing the issue - it is the best I have read not in legalese.

For once we are in agreement, hence my reply to the OP. Realtors cannot try and manipulate the market in terms of fees and commissions with collision intent. Besides that fact, who is anyone to tell another what they should deem acceptable in terms of compensation for their time and efforts?

I think the majority has spoken with the concensious being live and let live.........

Has anybody posted to where the "discount stores" have now dropped their fees?.........Not to throw a wet blanket on this party, try 15/35..........

So - if the majority in front of you jumped off a cliff - you would be satisfied to follow in like kind.

Truly there are times when us old folk attempt to give advice from what we know to true and not from speculation but what we have seen and experienced - but some just need to experience the pain themselves - and besides - I think I have agreed with you at least twice before this - lol

Your majority must have voted Chicago style. (No offense to our Chicagoans)

I'll tell you what I'll do - as when I have had company execs here before to answer questions - I'll contact the federal task force handling this and see if I can get some real input for you - but until they tell me different - I am comfortable with the OP and my opinions.

King congrats you got it right ... change you the plan & systems to meet the market change. Instead of trying to cjhange the market place back to meet to your plan. All of us that have been a round this a while at this can all wish for the days of the old norm of $75 to $100 driveby $150 interior or we can adapt/change & work smarter.

back to the OP's question...how much lower for BPOs?

I honestly get the impression that a good number of real estate agents are so immersed, obsessed or enamored with this business, that they would do $5 BPOs, which is a sad statement.

If one is truly concerned about being successful, it only makes sense to condsider alternative professions and income sources. real estate can be very exciting when times are good. but when you're getting stiffed at every turn, hanging in there for peanuts is just foolish. do you think a university would teach this silly, ghetto career strategy in its business school? Of course not.

You adapt or you die, in this or any other business. 5 years ago anyone with a pulse could get a mortgage and anyone with a half a pulse could sell a house. Now it takes talent and the herd is thinning. Not that many years ago REO agents were almost required to do drive bys to get the REO work. Now some folks do one, and some do the other. It's changed dramatically. Now consider this. Not that many years ago you took your film to the local shop to be developed. You pasted it on a paper and overnighted it. Overnighted after you typed the BPO (remember typewriters?). And you got your comps from a book. A book that came out once every two weeks. Now it's download, autofill and upload. Anyone else remember those days? There will be those that can generate a profit doing 30 dollar BPOs if they do enough of them and delegate the mundane portions. Mass production on the BPO level. And don't think mass production doesn't work. I have a close friend that has a ton of photo folks, comp pullers, data entry and QC people. After payroll and overhead he NETS an average of 7 dollars per BPO. But he's knocking out 1000 a month. 70K per month on top of a huge REO operation. He has very little competition since he works on a MAX 48 hour turn time and no QC kickbacks and over 100 clients. Now some clients would ask "are you performing everything yourself" to which he answers. "No would you care to reassign these 150 BPOs". I only wish I had that type of system in place. My point being everyone of us has their own way of doing things. I'd hate to be the dude that told this person "30 bucks, you're nuts" and have him wave his $800,000 profit in my face and ask back, "which one of us is nuts"? We either change with the industry or we just change the industry we work in.

" Shucks - I was so happy to watch and see that no one took was taking the bait of our pesky little troll - until I saw this."

I was thinking the exact same thing Pine. Dozens upon dozens of one liners came to mind and I just bit my tongue. I'm learning to behave myself, even when it's an easy target.

yeah, I'm glad you admitted it. this is exactly what's wrong with the real estate industry. this guy is vioating the BPO companies' own policies and vendor rules, cutting corners, probably even violating the law in some cases. but it doesn't matter...because he's getting the orders done and the clients love it. his "bottom-feeder business model" is the ONLY way to make it profitable on a large scale, because it's illegitimate. the end justifies the means. ethics takes a back seat to profits. hypocrisy prevails.

hey newbies, welcome to the real estate industry...

There was no "admission" here. merely a stating of the changing industry.
Your statement about a lack of ethics and corner cutting is a quantom leap based or your assumptions rather then anything I wrote or anything that's fact. You could make jumping to conclusions an Olympic event.

His clients know his business model and approve of it, he does a great job and if you really believe 800 to a million is a bottom feeder, that's merely an indication of your lack of experience not only in real estate, but in the business world in general. Your final comment of hey newbies welcome to real estate should be changed to Hey Shana, welcome to the business world. I can understand your need to twist the success of another. Either you must somehow convince yourself that the folks at the top are doing something underhanded or admit you're an abject failure.
This business is changing and moving forward and your comments indicate that the business is leaving you behind.
As I stated, 5 years ago anyone with a half pulse could sell real homes. That category would seem to fit you quite snugly.

Hey newbies, be careful who you take advice from!

That's why in my Tampa area market, FSBOs were so successful a few years back. So much so that between 2004 and 2006, most homeowners didn't really need agents to sell their homes as buyer demand was off the scale.

So much has changed since then, huh?

I know exactly how the big volume BPO brokers work. they cut corners wherever they can, they have (unlicensed) photographers shoot the drive-by photos, which the clients usually do not allow, per their vendor rules. they often have people other than the assigned licensed agents doing the comp-pulling and valuations. It's the only way to do it efficiently on a large scale. yeah, the clients look the other way because they're getting what they want, and ethics is a hindrance to profits. they're short-sighted idiots. the industry hasn't changed that much. the same mentality exists with the big players. this paradigm has prevailed in American business for several decades now, and it has put the US economy where it is now...in the toilet.

the folks at the top are doing something underhanded...hmmm...maybe you have a short memory? remember that mortgage fiasco a few years ago, that nearly tanked the global economy? LOL. I know general business and management, and I know real estate better than most. and the difference between you and I, is that I tell it like it is.

oh, and if you think BPO fees will be increasing when/if the market recovers...that's not likely. As the OP said, agents have sold themselves short.

Shana, if you would spend a half of time and energy of what you spent on this topic, you'd find bunch of new BPO clients. Really, life is beautiful, stop and smell the roses:-))

Somehow, whenever I see that SHANA has posted I think of Sha-Na-Na and Bowser. They both love the oldies.

As I side note, I also know the company JackREO is referring to and looked at their business model closely about 9 or 10 years ago and spent a lot of time with the principal broker. It works very well for them because they are in a major market that is not contiguous to another major market. And all of their clients are quite aware of their business plan.

Bunny and others - the last I was informed, our little pesky troll does not hold a real estate license and does not work in BPO, REO or even real estate.

Everyone should always be careful of what advice they accept and research anything they read here before acting upon it.

It is my opinion that unlicensed people or people that do not work in our niche should be required to make that clear in their signature or something, but then again, Shana does have a certain wit and serves several purposes here I do enjoy. The best I see is her(?) posts appear to solidify the actual real estate professionals here together and provides some fodder for us all. I, and the other Mods, try to keep an eye on her - but we don't live here and she accepts her timeouts and keeps coming back, well there is no choice on the time outs – but she does have a choice on coming back, and oddly I respect that.

Sooo - while Shana may not be completely harmless - she does fill some needs such as stated above and she does get people to post to her criticisms and views - no matter how wrong or far out they may be, and that is good for a click based forum.

The line(s) for me is drawn where and when any unlicensed member appears to offer advice as a licensed real estate professional or without making it clear they are not even a licensed agent, or when they purposely and outwardly challenge any Moderator in the performance of the job, that’s just not cool.

I still contend BPO prices will increase in some markets over the next year. People think I am crazy for saying this, but I have several good reasons why I think that. Certainly it will always depend where you are and how many others are competeing for the orders. I know I make the mistake sometimes of thinking each of you is set exactly as am I. But frankly for instance, if I were doing a dozen or 2 dozen orders within 10 or 15 miles from my house/office forty would not seem as absurd as it does. I and others like me travel further increasing time and cost.

Each order is a business decision and we each have a different biz climate with different realities and constraints.

My territory is 10 miles from my office and I still end up driving 40-50 miles a day.

To get shots for 7-10 houses I run an average of 5 hours, 150 to 200 miles. 40 or 50 miles would only get me pics for 1 or 2 homes.

You're putting me to shame Doin'. I average about 30 houses a week and about 250 miles a week..... and THAT makes me grumpy! I hate the construction on our Texas highways.

WOW - 30 houses and only 250 miles - sweet - you may be spoiled - lol

Well I tried:

So - we're still at traveling at your own risk - sorry

My dirty rough numbers are about 20 orders a week, about 550 miles a week.

Just an example of how we all have different work conditions.

You're my inspiration. I just increased my territory. Lets see if I thank you in a couple of weeks.

Shana...
Sounds like your just a bit bitter...
Either we adapt with the market or we get left behind by the market.

I'm not at all bitter, but with age I have become less tolerant of the b.s. and exploitation in the industry. I did very well in real estate, and am now retired from real estate, but I still have other business interests.

real estate and the financial industry in general, is probably the most corrupt industry I have ever been involved in, short of Wall Street. the people who thrive in it at the corporate level, definitely have serious moral/ethical issues. I became aware of this from day one, when I first worked for a broker twenty five years ago. this guy was a serious con-artist and manipulator. If you can't see the reality of this industry, you must have your head conveniently buried in the sand.

that is absurd. I have repeatedly displayed knowledge on this forum that can ONLY be obtained from many years of experience in the industry.

wit...with a healthy dose of criticism. apparently some of the posters don't have the courage to criticize those in this industry who contribute to the corruption. now who's wrong?

timeouts...ROFL. I recall one or two timeouts that were a farce, completely unjustified, stating that I "constantly violated the forum rules." I never violated the rules. go back and look at all of my posts. some mods just can't handle politically unpopular opinions. that's their little problem. you'll never find me functioning as a shill for unethical, corrupt companies, and there are many of those in real estate.

nice try Don, got anything better?

Its ok to adapt AND be bitter at the same time.

Here Here! That sums it up perfectly Artiste!

OK so those statements remind me of this

"Once upon a time, there was a non-conforming sparrow who decided not to fly south for the winter. However, soon the weather turned so cold that he reluctantly started to fly south.

In a short time ice began to form on his wings and he fell to earth in a barnyard. Almost frozen, a cow passed by and crapped on the little sparrow. The sparrow thought it was the end. But, the manure warmed him and defrosted his wings. Warm and happy, able to breathe, he started to sing. Just then, a large cat came by and hearing the chirping, investigated the sounds. The cat cleared away the manure, found the chirping bird and ate him.

Morals to the Story
1.Everyone who craps on you is not necessarily your enemy.
2.Everyone who gets you out of the crap is not necessarily your friend.
3.And, if you're warm and happy in a pile of crap, keep your mouth shut!!!

It still makes me laugh ...

Nope - proofs in the puddin

But if you're so brave - why hide behind a fictitious name?? And please let us know - where is it you have an active real estate license - I was thinking you told us you didn't have one, but maybe that idea came about because you never would say that you actually were licensed - my bad. However - rules do dictate that you offer your info when requested by a mod to confirm your licensure - how many times has it been requested??

Nope - nothing better - as long as you do not offer advice as a real estate agent or act as if you have a real estate license, I'm perfectly content on what you provide me/us on the forums as I have already indicated.I believe in taking advantage of everything anyone has to offer.

But thanks for asking.

I don't mind lowering my fees to get the business, but I was just told by a major BPO company that people in my area are doing interiors for $50 and exteriors in the low $30's. That is just too low and I will not spend the time and energy for that.

I imagine people that are being paid those low fees are companies that outsource to unlicenced agents and companies in India. I just can't imagine people that are qualified, doing the work for such low fees. Especially since these BPO companies are demanding so much more now.

I will do them for one dollar.
That is one dollar per minute spent doing the order.
That major BPO company may be lying just to get you to lower your fee. But we will never know.

I tell them: 'WOW - give me a call if that doesn't work out and I'll be glad to try and work you in at my normal pricing - I hate to lose your work - good luck with that.'

I have lost work but I have also received calls offering me more than when I received more steady work for them.

Shana, to quote you on two postings in this message string:

Quote: timeouts...ROFL.

Quote: FYI...excessive laughing is a sign of mental weakness.

I realize I'm taking the quotes out of context. A technique you're quite adept at.

Typical script: BPO rep: Will you do this order for $35? Doin' Bpose: No my fee is $50. Rep: But the client is only paying us $40 and we have to make something. Doin' Bpose: You call the rep and tell them they need to pay more.

I think everyone needs a alugh sometimes. Got this email from ORT last night:
We are looking for a licensed real estate agent in your area to complete a BPO order for Old Republic Default Management Services. If you are interested, please reply to this message.

Type: INTERIOR
Photos Required: Front, Street Scene, Address Verification, Comps (comps can be from MLS)
• Due Date Sunday 10/23/11
• Fee Paid: $you tell me

I was thinking of sending it back and asking for $150

One ROFL is not excessive laughing. nice try...got anything better?

Btw, has anyone ever successfully challenged any of my posts, in terms of knowledge of real estate??? I can't recall one.


algebra quiz for Jack (good luck):

1. (ROFL)/L = ?

2. L(ROF-1) = ?


comprehension question:

3. If Jack lives in a box, what does that make him?

a) homeless
b) jack-in-the-box
c) goofy
d) all of the above

Thank you, Artiste, for my favorite quote of the day. I think I will print this, frame it, and hang it on a wall.

The first comments were direct contradictory quotes from you.
Regarding has anyone ever successfully challenged any of your posts? Yes, constantly and repeatedly. The sole party that doesn't realize that is you.
Regarding 25 years experience. Most of your post would indicate 6 months experience 50 times. In 25 years you've yet to adapt to this changing industry. I suppose I should change my adapt or die comment to adapt or retire.
I had more or less written off even responding to some of the inane comments you post. Particularly after one poster compared you to sand in a bathing suit....harmless, but irritating. Probably the best summation one could have made. I should have followed my initial instincts and just ignored your howling at the moon.

That would be me that drew that comparison. I am glad you liked it Jack. Feel free to use that whenever you please. I did feel the ned to take credit though.

Hey PA I get those sometimes too from ORT (not exactly like that). But I toss them back with the fee where I want it and pick up about 1 in 4 or 1 in 3.

Jack, does this mean you can't answer my simple questions? honestly, it was a very basic test.

no one has EVER substantively challenged any of my posts on this forum. go back and check the threads. I do understand, however, that my criticism bruises the inflated egos of the unethical people in this industry. that's too darned bad. those are the same people who enabled the big players to tank the economy. go ahead, tell me that's inane.

I did Shana. If I recall you did not agree that the Community Investment Act was one of the major causes of the housing bubble. It was a claim I made back in early 2009 and you disagreed. I called you on it.

Banks and mortgage brokers were selling mortgages on the stock market faster than the ink dried on them - they didn't need any other Act to encourage lending beyond the repeal of Glass-Steagall - the Community Investment Act was symbolic.

No, I'm not going to take your test. I take tests if, as and when I believe they will serve a purpose and then only from qualified teachers, which you don't come close to qualifying as.

This thread was begun as a question about working for low fees. Somehow you've taken that and convoluted into ALL those folks being unethical and causing the economy to tank. Yes, the economy tanked, some are struggling to make a living in it and seeking advice in this forum. Others have found ways to generate a profit in spite of the obstacles they face. And some, just whine and gripe about it. That would be you. Not every successful business person is unethical, some are just damn smart. Recall how you gloated about making 2 million last year by investing overseas or wherever it was you invested? Not that anyone believed that tale, but none called you unethical for making the claim. BTY did the fall of so many Middle East countries impact your diverse portfolio and if so which of the posters doing 30 dollar BPOs will you blame for that? Yes, the economy tanked, but those posting here didn't cause it, and your constant complaining about it won't cure it. People post here to learn about the industry they're in. Some answer to help and give them the benefit of their experience. Others just vent about all the evils in the world. It really seems that many of your answers to folks aren't really answers, but rather your view of the evils lurking around every corner. It almost seems like if someone said good morning, you'd check your watch and the weather and somehow come up with a conspiracy theory the Timex and the National Weather Service were conspiring to ruin your day. I've heard they have meds for that. If you really want to change things back to the way they were run for public office. Somewhere there must be a position open for the Minister of Paranoia.
Sand in a bathing suit.

Jack - good points. Expanding on the point that agents who come here are just trying to learn about the industry they are in. True. If agents are just doing BPOs for a paycheck, they are not on this forum. Why - cuz those agents are just in it for the paycheck and don't care why someone has asked them to change their value. Their opinion is for sale so they just make the changes. The agents that post here are trying to get advise so they don't just change their value to get paid.
In general - title of this post is stop working for peanuts. Just for fun, think about all the agents, appraisers, loan officers, banks that got us here. They did not make peanuts, they made millions. Point being - if there is an unethical practice going on, whomever is behind it is not making peanuts. If an agent is doing 30 dollar bpos and acting unethically - they are not a very smart crook. The act of doing BPOs for 30 dollars is not unethical - in no way shape or form. It is a business choice. Everyone of us makes business choices every day, and as independent contractors, we can do that. I know three agents - personally - that are sitting in federal prision right now - because they chose to commit mortgage fraud. They made millions - no lie - and to sit with them at board functions and real estate trainings - you never would have known. They made business choices and knew they were unethical, seems a judge knew it too. If an agent chooses to complete a bpo using false data, to meet a certain price - that's unethical. If an agent completes a BPO using accurate data and comes up with a price based on that info, ethical. If they both got paid 30 dollars - one of them is a dumb a^% crook, and one of them is doing a BPO for the sake of doing a BPO and getting paid for their work. BPOs didn't get us here, but the reason agents come here for advise is because they realize the way we get out is to value properties correctly, and they want to know if what they are being asked to do is ethical or not. Read the thread topics - unethical fingers should be pointed at the short sale agent that meets you at a property with comps - the reo appraiser that asks were you want the value to be - and some of the things we are asked are due to stupidity - but could lead to an unethical act. Cheer up though - as Jack pointed out there are tons of conspiricy theories out there. In fact, read the book Too Big to Fail - it will make your day - maybe even your week. There are nice people in this world, laughter is the best thing you can do for yourself, and if you try to say at least one nice thing to someone who is being difficult - everyday - the world becomes a better place.

Over the edge. Good points all.
Looking back over many previous posts and debates, I noticed a trend. The great majority of the Nevada Negative's comments have nothing to do with the day to day functions of REO or BPO. No comments about specific companies, no anecdotes regarding specific events, no input that would be gleaned from the every day issues many of us experience. Rather the comments are such that they are outtakes from the media. Not the real time events we receive from DS News, Housing Wire, Inman, or client updates, but more the type of news items we read long after the fact in our local papers and such. I couple that observation with Pine’s comment about repeated inability/refusal to supply a license and I realized I’ve been duped. Duped in the sense that I haven’t been debating with another industry professional, I’ve been debating with a party that has limited, if any, experience in the REO/BPO arena. Retired after 25 years? Hardly, many of the comments seem to replicate what one read rather then what one lived. And most are directed at events from the 2005-2006 era. Events many of us saw unfolding in the early 2000s. Additionally if we couple those two with some of the comments such as “nice try—got anything better” and the mindless math question and jack in the box comment and it appears I’ve also been debating with a youngster. Those last two comments would be more apt to come out in a playground kiddy argument then in our profession.

But, the mistake is mine and mine alone. I took the bait, as Pine would say. I should have known better, I can’t believe I didn’t realize this sooner. I suppose I could chalk my mistake in taking the bait to the corporate greed and unethical behavior of everyone else, but then that would be a “nice try…got anything better” style defense. Perhaps what we need is another place on the forum to post ramblings and rants.
In any event, there will be no more debating with the Nevada negative. I’m shaking the sand out of my bathing suit and sitting on a towel.

I've studiously avoided direct interaction with the pest. I'm well past playing mind games on message boards with Chronic Discontents, especially those not actively involved in the day-to-day business at hand.

What I do NOT approve of, however, in view of the facts presented by Pine and the pointed observations of experienced professionals here regarding the level of expertise or lack thereof, is a non-licensee, possibly never licensee'd person engaging the public and giving advice without a disclaimer in his/her sig line. That is spurious. Posts from this individual can be found in the "ask an expert" thread, or something similar it is called, wherein this poster did engage the public and offer advice.

Neither do I approve of criticisms that licensees are corrupt, unethical, etc., under the guise of belonging to the profession. It's one thing to be a consumer, a member of the public, disaffected with real estate professionals, or the profession itself, and make accusations. But, it's another thing entirely to put yourself forth as a member criticizing the profession from within.

"I've heard they have meds for that"............It's called Valium........or Diazepam if you can't afford the real deal...

Why is it every time I see people respond to her posts, two words come to mind..................FISH ON..........just a passing thought.......lol.

Yes, and I did respond to someone that official statistics show that less than 10% of defaulted mortgages were the result of CRA. It simply wasn't a big factor.

Trust Me - working for peanuts would be a raise when monitoring what some people say and how they represent themselves on AO.

For a long time I have monitored several members that seem to make contrary opinions based on what they read in a thread and regurgitate it back to us - either in another thread or later in the same section - presenting it as their learned opinion and/or experience. Another thing I have seen - are the cut and paste responses from posts - where the poster probably searched an issue and then copied and pasted what someone else wrote in an article or just another website or forum.

But that is extreme moderating to have a need to do that or out someone for doing that. I by no means catch everything nor do I try - so never worry about letting a mod know when someone is posting something that shouldn't be posted - well - within reason – after all, best moderators on AgentsOnline is the membership in general.

To my friends and colleagues I say: Keep up the good work in this or any thread or section.

okay, fellas, check my previous post in this thread, regarding my criticism of the high volume "business model" and dubious methods of the big BPO brokers. go ahead, tell me they don't have unlicensed photographers/inspectors doing the drive-by's. tell me they don't have agents other than the assigned agents doing the BPO valuations. all violations of the client's own policies and vendor rules, as well as licensing standards. YOU ALL KNOW THEY DO IT. It can't be done efficiently any other way on a large scale. yet you continue to laud and support these methods, and the industry in general that tolerates unethical practices. If a person has any ethics, and those ethics are not situational, they must at some point refuse to play. this is exactly what the OP was saying about NOT working for peanuts. I realize this is hard for some to live up to, because it takes backbone and sacrifice. of course, to those who always support the status quo simply to receive a paycheck, anyone who complains or criticizes the industry is a trouble-maker. what the big players are doing is NOT good business. they created this mess we are in, and they are putting the negative consequences of their bad, unethical decisions on the small practitioners in the industry.

Someone in my area advertises for help on craigslist - pays $10 to take the photos and $15 to write the BPO and the agent gets $15 to delegate and oversee the duties.

Sand in bathing suit.
large outhouse fly.

PATHETIC.

i dunno, made me smile.

That was the intent. The person it was intended for was only worth about ten seconds of effort. It was just the first thing that came to mind.

large outhouse fly with sand in its bathing suit:)

I don't know how much I'd rely on a Craigslist person. As long as the client knows how things are delegated, I suppose it's okay. I dropped IAS when they insisted I do everything myself. This from a company that can't even locate someone to sign checks.
Some clients do insist the assigned agent follow the process from cradel to grave and I opt not to work for them. Others understand the team concept and they're okay with that. In my case it's reached the point where the clients closers call my closing dept, their valuations department calls my valuations department and so on. BUT..if a mistake takes place it's on me. I did find over the years that I prefer the same party take the photos and do the write up. In MA. the only party that needs a license is the party setting the value. Photos, pulling comps, data entry can be delegated. But, like I stated, I do prefer the site party also do the valuation and And hold a license. But that's my preference not the law. If the process is disclosed, the client agrees to it, and the quality is there, then there's really no issue.
But Craigslist?

Pine, please make Shana go away.

Ummm, I am one person who can tell you that I am a solo team that does everything myself and does not farm out anything! Now I suppose one could debate what is a high volume BPO broker? Since I am not seeing an actual number in your post, does that mean my 40-50 a week production qualifies as that in your opinion?

I do all this at a slight cost of having little spare time, but I gladly exchange that knowing that I am not living a paycheck to paycheck lifestyle. At the same time I thank my lucky stars for that knowing that can change at anytime. My six day a week work ethic helps me to keep my production up, even at times of feeling a little burned out.

Shana, I sense that you are a very opinionated person. There is nothing wrong with that. Yet don't try to put everyone in the same category without really knowing them. It's what I would call that prejudice, as you are pre-judging them.

I am a one person operation as well. I don't consider my volumes as "high", but on a good month I've completed 30-40 per week.

On a seperate note... going back to the topic heading, ORT is dropping some of those $30 dollar orders in my area tonigt. If no one takes them, they will usually send out an email saying fee is negotiable.

Well, there ya' go...wait until the fee is negotiable.

In our industry, with all its fluctuations, unless it's work that's just assinine to accept, we take the work when it comes because there are going to be slow periods for sure.

Nothing is guaranteed.

"Nothing is guaranteed"...........Whatever happened to the "death and taxes" we were told about while in our growing years?............lol

I forgot those...perhaps, because I try to forget those....

"Shana, I sense that you are a very opinionated person. There is nothing wrong with that. Yet don't try to put everyone in the same category without really knowing them. It's what I would call that prejudice, as you are pre-judging them."


opinionated, yes. intolerant of an extremely unethical industry, yes. I guess I should acknowledge the ethical people who entered the industry with good intentions, then dropped out having refused to play the game. I can't criticize those folks.

you see certain idiots referring to my comments, mostly about ethics, as "sand in a bathing suit," or a "horsefly." should I be surprised?

they are essentially saying that ethics is an annoyance. and that is precisely what is wrong with this industry. as I said before, newbies, take note of the mentality you will be dealing with if you choose to stay in this business. go with the flow, throw your ethics out the window.

as an example, up until a few years ago, the mortgage appraisal industry was so bad that quite a few supervisor appraisers were hiring trainee appraisers and refusing to pay them anything for their work, which of course is completely illegal. did it stop them...no...because the extremely corrupt industry tolerated it. It took a major economic failure to turn that around. I can't imagine anyone so foolish as to tolerate that kind of exploitation in a work environment.

and I can't forget the thread a while back about "the care and feeding of appraisers," offered by a licensed agent and member of the forum. and the other posters in the thread lauded this ridiculous b.s., until I jumped in with some comments about the ethical duties of licensed appraisers. that was a thread from the twilight zone of real estate.

I never said horsefly, I said outhouse fly. Again, you twist stuff.

"I never said horsefly, I said outhouse fly. Again, you twist stuff."


Interesting analogy. you're suggesting that this forum is an "outhouse" and you are the occupant.

In that case, Shana speaks to the outhouse occupants remotely, via a wireless transmitter. LOL

Does anybody remember the words to the song "Cow Paddy, Patty"?
..........seems to fit the outhouse fly theory.

How about zero?

Did a freebie for USRES but only because the house was in my same neighborhood and it was the first time in almost 3 yrs since doing one. BTW, is USRES still in business?

Cool guy - too funny. I just did one for them for $0 too. I asked myself the same thing - "are they still in business?" It was so close to me, and was a pretty easy one to do.

Please keep to the topic and play nicely or the post will be closed.

Thanks!

Understood.

Yup...I understand as well. This got sidetracked a tad. Some of these threads have a habit of doing that....

The topic is "...Stop working for peanuts"-- which encourages posters to say WHY agents/brokers should stop working for low compensation. As such, there will be some debating/defending, some back and forths about why it's okay to work for less compensation, and why it's not okay. To be useful, these back and forths need to be between agents/brokers who are actively involved in the default or BPO segment.

I also think it's acceptable for default sector agents/brokers to debate/complain, in conjunction with low compensation for BPOs, whether some expectations of the BPO companies/mills are problematic for licensees; i.e., companies "shooting values", or arm-twisting agents/brokers to change their opinion of value. I think that's useful, too.

I've already posted what I think is NOT acceptable.

wait, maybe I misinterpreted SMG's outhouse analogy. The outhouse is the real estate industry, and the occupant in the outhouse is the BPO company taking a dump on the agents it hires to do low paying BPO's?

I'll have to agree with that. thanks SMG, your analogies are the best!

Perfect post

(I just love it)

The Energizer Bunny has popped into my head a number of times while reading this thread, like how some of us just keep doing BPOs and keep doing them, no matter what anyone says about the BPO business or us. . . .And also about how no matter how you dig, that sand in your bathing suit seems to elude your grasp and just keeps on irritating.

I have fired a couple of companies over $40 BPOs because it was a constant struggle to get them to pay more, every phone call was the same: "You just do this one for $40 and next time we pay you $50." And I would laugh and say, "No, you'll forget! So you have to pay me $50 this time or I won't complete the order!" I always got the $50, but it was tiring.

What is working for peanuts to some - is putting food on the table for others.

As always - I am far behind many of the real BPO pros here and I would need the help of iMacros and coding to accept just the right work, in order to make BPO work for me like many of you have.

The point I guess is - those of us that can't make it work just need to supplement our livelihoods with additional income from another place or get better and faster.

Of course - complaining does help - so I've been told - LOL

Just curious, how many listings did you take off your 1,770 BPOs???

Oh lets play nice folks and get back to being proferssional.

Everyone has to find their niche in this bussiness. Like any profession we have dirt bags/scam artist and we have professionals. Bpo's are not for everyone. Myself the retail side would drive me crazy (well more nutty then I am for doing BPO's for as along as I have). But doing the retail side being at the whim of a buyer or seller was not for me. Sure we all wish for the fee's us old timers at the BPO biz would get in the good ole days. We either move with them market or the market passed by. Of course ethicaly. It really comes down to a personal choice. To continue in this bussiness or not. But the choice of working with ethics has always been in place when fee's were great or peanut fee's, some had ethics & some did not. The key now is to work smarter, but still with ethics. I'm sure we all have had to retool our way of doing things. I remember a just 6-7 years back talking with several agents about REO's and how they would not lower themselves to handle a listing for the banks at an insulting $1000 minimum. It a choice to work or not work in this.
All of us in the REO/BPO side of things are not to be painted with a broad stroke of unethical dirtbags..

So now can we can we all now play nice agian.

Just my 2 cents.. we'll it was more like my dimes worth.

Not 2 cents, not a dime, Actually your advice is priceless. Well said, St Louis.

Very well said StLbpo's

Low fee BPOs are adding to the appraisers arguement that BPOs should be banned. Go ahead and keep taking them and help eliminate the very business you rely on.
Lately I have been getting more requests to review both appraisal and BPO comps from some vendors. In all I have reviewed the values were way off and comps used were unsuitable. (well one was OK)

I don't know if low compensation BPOs translates to low quality work. I think it'd be much harder to "fudge" a BPO than to produce the real deal. But I base that on my market where we have no subdivisions and no "cookie-cutter" homes.

I still believe, even at low compensation rates the BPOs produced still have value. UNLESS the adjustments are bogus. Now that I have seen on review of prior BPOs AND appraisals. Surprisingly, more so on appraisals. Many BPOs do require supportive information such as, MLS sheets. Appraisals do not. In fact, many appraisers in my area cannot see the MLS listings, and the counties do NOT give more information that age, gross sqft, lot size. Use of RealQuest, in my area, is not particularly helpful, either.

The entire valuation industry is being twisted and manipulated, that much I can agree with.

I see fees stabilizing at around a $45 average; any less with transportation costs why bother? (and they know this).

This is ok with me if the form is quick and easy to input.

More than a low fee, my gripe is with the difficult forms that take too much time and end up distracting my thinking process making it more difficult to arrive at an accurate value.

The biggest threat to BPOs is the automated valuations that are getting better. They will not replace BPOs but decrease the frequency of the requests.

I received and offer for $25 for photos and all MLS sheets for comps. I know the broker that requested the work is over fifty miles away. I know the companies I work for request photos to be from my personal visit to property. How do people get away with this? Basically she only inputs the forms. I almost said yes and then at the last minute declined. She wanted then all to be completed today. Email was sent Sat. to myself other agents. I told her 25 does not pay for gas and what she is doing is unethical. Her reply.

We only needed the photos and MLS sheets of all comps if you did all nine that is a $225.00 day. ( not too bad)


As for ethics… a simple no thank you would have done.

My friend lives in Florida and he just started stated doing BPO's for this guy and received several orders from Old Republic. They were INTERIORS paying $45.00.

WTH?????

That is what the have been paying for a long time in my area. I don't do them, but they still send me the blasts.

I had a few LS interiors last week @ $85, interiors are rare these days.

"We only needed the photos and MLS sheets of all comps if you did all nine that is a $225.00 day. ( not too bad)"

If her ethics showed that then if you did the work you better get the payment BEFORE releasing any of the info to her.

Do you really think some of these volume suppliers doing a bunch of bpo's will say "thank you" when the mills cut fees??

No way! Many of these bpo people will preserve their profit and do it anyway possible ethical or not.

It's just like if the government raises minimum wage.Costs will rise and business owners will employ less people and cut hours as cost go up.They sure aren't going to cut their salary and give it all to employees.

These BPO mills need to get rid of this "stinking thinking" and raise the fees back to a respectable level.

Old republic is good for $45 dollar interiors. I kept asking for an increase and they became very angry with me one of the rep Amy told the manager on me. She always has an attitude.

If you want to stay under the radar don't ask for a price increase or just don't do them.

if you do ask for a price increase just remember they may report you a lot of the times, if you don't care about losing your account you can continue asking for a price increase but remember to stop when they object to it.

This way even though they have an issue with your account you can still keep it and not push the envelop to much.

Don't ask any of the girls (not all but most will report you)for an increase in fees only ask the guy reps they are more laid back and doesn't have a pencil stuck down there.

The way to get an increase is simply tell them you'll get the orders out earlier. Just submit the order one day before it's due. Some of the guy reps understand.

I was able to increase my pay check by $200 easy doing it this way.

you just slammed people for actually willing to work for less and then complained that the government wanted to keep people from being forced to work for less?
Are you serious? What about freedom?
Personally I think people should get paid what they can but to complain that $7.25 an hour is too high? And that $45 for a bpo is too low? Sounds silly..
I will do 45 dollar bpos all day everyday…and I will pay my employees 15 an hour---but hey—I am just a liberal capitalist---

I will pay my independent contractor about $2.00 an hour and have them be perfectly happy about it. I'll get paid $43 for spending 40 minutes to 1 hour on an order that's over $40 dollars an hour. I'm talking about when I do drive.

Hey, if you hate the game don't play. You can do other things like internet marketing focus on shortsales, real estate investing, I mean you do have options don't feel like you're stuck to this work because you are not.

You better get smart because these bpo mills do not care about you or your family or what happens to you - remember still be ethical and do a good job though :)

I dont think the problem is so much what you are making TODAY vs what you will be making for the same next year. I have seen this in too many industries I have been a sub in, maybe the initial price starts out too high for what is done, but before long its way below, there "may" be a chance to control it here because of the need to be licensed to do BPO's, IMO though, theres always someone willing to do it for less.

The prices are dropping, thats a fact so how low is too low for you?

Kool . . . . Can you actually pay Independent Contractors an hourly wage down there ?

It's like a reverse auction. Your opening bid might be $60 for a drive by. Someone else says they will do it for $50. Next bidder says $40. And so on. We need less bidders but that will never happen. Oh Well.

Or that old TV Show "Name that Tune"

With desperation, the number of Notes or the Fee will descend to the realm of ridiculousness.

My minimum remains $100.00 just as it was in the 1990s; but I still have Mills testing the waters to see if I might budge for $95.00 "just this once" . . . . just as a favor, for little ole me . . . . pal-leeeze ?"

I just let them know that I can't get involved in negotiating every single Order.

The answer is "NO . . . . Good luck on your next call !"