Everytime I read an article on RISMEDIA ref agents business growing due to internet leads they all refer to Blackwater Consulting Group. As anyone worked with them?

Yes and not as good as they say they are. They seem to have a system that has worked for some but when rinsed and repeated does not work for others, me included.

The worst service provider experience I have had in more than 20 years in real estate was with Blackwater Consulting (Michael Parker) / CompassSearch (Sean Hogan).

In one year of the service, I got one legitimate lead. One lead, in one year, for which I paid several thousand dollars and invested countless hours of time jumping through all kinds of hoops and making numerous changes, repeatedly, to my online content.

Michael (Mike) Parker is an effective front man. His "articles" in Broker-Agent on SEO are reasonable and competently written. I have met numerous others on Point2 whose experiences with Blackwater / Compass have been equally miserable.

During one in-person visit to the Compass office, I was given an "inside" look at their most successful client. It turns out that her success is due to her posts on Craig's List and really has nothing to do with Compass.

In my experience, this is really nothing more than a cruel and sophisticated scam. Dealing with someone as deceptive, evasive, unethical, surly and gangster-like as Sean Hogan made the whole episode one of the most unpleasant of my life.

I would strongly encourage anyone to think very carefully before giving Blackwater / Compass your credit card information and signing an agreement with them. Do your due diligence before you get stuck with them for several thousand dollars.

There was inconclusive online information on this outfit when I signed up with them, in 2008. That should no longer be the case.

Please realize that every company has its detractors and we are no exception. The comments below are completely off base and false and we invite you to contact us for a list of people you may call to verify what I am saying. Just write me at mparker@theblackwatercg.com

We put MS Guest on the first page of every search engine and delivered 50 good leads to her inbox. It is not our fault when agents can't follow up leads in a way to produce business. I invite anyone to view her leads and tell me we didn't perform for her. Ditto the placement--FIRST page on EVERY major search engine. Almost 2000 clients and a few unhappy ones. That's show business. If you want to sell homes, you will like our service.

Mr. PC Realty certainly has a lot to say. Dan Berman is his name, and he only made four times his investment with us. Evidently, that was not enough.

He found out a client was successfully using Craigs list to augment their work. Gee, that's awful! As to CL being the client's total success maker; no, Dan, not so.

These kinds of disingenuous and false posts hurt more than they ought to, but nothing we can do can make up for such malice. Perhaps Mr. Berman's status as a discount broker wanna-be, trying to sell in Silicon Valley when he lives in Stockton--at least 2 hours away, explains his viciousness, perhaps not. It's irrelevant, really. Even he made money from his subscription.

Doesn't quite seem fair, to me.

Again: we have HUNDREDS of satisfied clients and an occasional loser. It happens. I urge you to see the facts and make up your own minds.

Listed below is an email exchange between myself and Dan Berman. Showing that Dan was able to generate a $15,000 commission because of our service and my invitation to our office to further talk about his site and improving it to help him with his business.

I don't know why Mr. Berman thought I was being rude but there was no intention to be so.

From: Sean Hogan <shogan@compassinternetsystems.com>
Subject: Re: Two Questions (SiliconValleyDiscountRealtors.com) 031809
To: "Daniel Berman" <danielkberman@gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 8:36 AM


Hi Dan,

Friday at 1:00 p.m. works for me.

We are located at 1901 Olympic blvd Suite 300. From 680 take Olympic Blvd, head East, make your first Right (about 100 yards from the freeway exit), then another right into the first parking lot. we are on the third floor in the back on the left side of the elevator.

Best,
-Sean

--- On Wed, 3/18/09, Daniel Berman <danielkberman@gmail.com> wrote:


From: Daniel Berman <danielkberman@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Two Questions (SiliconValleyDiscountRealtors.com) 031809
To: shogan@compassinternetsystems.com
Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 6:38 PM


Hi Sean,

Thank you very much for your response.

First, to answer your question, "why aren't you putting up a page on your point 2 site for each listing with a virtual tour?" I have no active listings at this time. When I did, they were put up on the site.

The main issue I would take with your calculation of my ROI is the many unanticipated hours I have devoted to the work with the Compass website. My time is worth something, too. :-)

I would like to take you up on your generous offer to meet with you at your office and arrive at ideas to improve results. How about this Friday at 1 pm?

Dan


On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Sean Hogan <shogan@compassinternetsystems.com> wrote:

Hi Dan,

Regarding the list of services we provide, that is described in our What's Included document. I've attached it for your review. In short the fees you pay us are for: on-site production, software analytics, web promotion through text based link advertisement campaign and access to customer support i.e. Stephanie.

In your case we have also redone production at our cost not yours twice now to continue to tweak and refine your on-line marketing plan.

As to what you are paying for, at this point you are actually paying down an interest free debt to us for our initial work, once that is paid in full you have the option of going month to month for our services.

You have already made a $15,000 commission on a sale off your site off a total investment with us of $4478 which is more that 3 times the return on investment.

Regarding your question about attracking more sellers and only sellers. I think your keywords are fine for that with the exception of wanting to target short sale sellers, but I don't think that is the market you want to go after in Palo Alto, if I'm wrong on that assumption let me know.

From my perspective you want to attract both buyers and sellers to a site and getting more buyers to it is advantageous when you are presenting your site to sellers. By limiting to just sellers you really limit the amount of traffic that is going to come to the site. You / we can add additional copy to motivate only sellers to contact you but again I think that is counter productive.

I also noticed you are putting up individual sites for individual properties, why aren't you putting up a page on your point 2 site for each listing with a virtual tour?

Finally, we want nothing but success for you and all our clients. I think you've had tremendous success in terms of a $15,000 commission, we want to help you get more busienss out of the site, so if you would like to come to our office and meet in person to review certain aspects of your site I would enjoy the visit. We are in Walnut Creek, let me know if you would like to meet as I think we can think through some additional ways to help you.

Sincerely,
Sean Hogan
Compass Internet Systems

--- On Wed, 3/18/09, Daniel Berman <danielkberman@gmail.com> wrote:


From: Daniel Berman <danielkberman@gmail.com>
Subject: Two Questions (SiliconValleyDiscountRealtors.com) 031809
To: "Sean Hogan" <shogan@compassinternetsystems.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 12:42 AM

Hi Sean,

Maybe you could help me out with answers to two questions I've asked Steph that she hasn't answered:

1. In looking at the meta tags, I see a lot of phrases that would only attract buyers (e.g., homes for sale, MLS listings). I don't see many phrases that I would associate with seller searches (e.g., sell my home, sell my house). If I am focusing on sellers, to get listings, is this really the best way to go?

If a lot of the traffic, such as it is, coming to the website is prospective buyers, who then see a website geared toward sellers, I could understand why the visit-to-query conversation ratio would be low or nil.

2. Aside from asking me to rewrite my home page, which I willingly and promptly did, what specifically is Compass doing for me at this time and during the next four months? Increasing backlinks to my website or other things? My wife sees the charge on my statement every month and is asking me to explain to her exactly what services are being provided.

Thank You,
Dan

Daniel Berman
Pacific Century Realty
SiliconValleyDiscountRealtors.com

I could write a book about how terrible it was to be in contract with Compass for a year ... but I have better things to do.

The bottom line is that a "lead generating system" that yields ONE LEAD IN ONE YEAR, for a payment of several thousand dollars, is a joke and a cruel one at that, especially when the customer is forced to deal with a succession of unpleasant personalities and jump through so many hoops.

One lead in one year is a fluke. It is testimony to my lead conversion skills that I was able to convert that single lead to a listing and then a sale.

When I spoke with tech support at Point2 (the provider they use for their websites) and Compass came up in the conversation, the tech support person volunteered how he speaks with legions of dissatisfied Compass customers on a regular basis and how crazy it is to spend money with Compass. There is a thread about Compass/Blackwater (aptly named) on the discussion forum at Point2 that is filled with comments from dissatisfied customers.

After I dumped Compass and stopped wasting time jumping through their hoops, business has soared. I have five quality listings and am taking another two during the next few days. Very few agents in my area carry that many quality listings.

If anyone wants to sign up with Compass and try their luck with them, that is their privilege, just as it is my privilege to post my experience with Compass, for others to refer to.

If they use Point2 for their website provider why not just use Point2 themselves? I used point2 for awhile and thought they had a good system. I got good SEO results with point2agent. Then I found something better. (BAP) That said I know nothing about Blackwater consulting. Their website is kinda vague and unappealing though. Which I really dislike a lack of details on a company offering real estate services. Which means I have to call and talk to some sales person.

Another note. I'll tell you what the word blackwater means to me. It means raw sewage. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_(waste)

Re: Blackwater

If you were from Ireland or if you studied geography, you'd know that the Blackwater River is a major lifeline for Southwestern Ireland.

Point 2 makes a fine website platform, but online marketing is about a whole lot more than a fine online marketing platform.

Have a nice day!

Most of their leads come from Enhanced Clicks from Reply.com, which emphasizes on Real Estate leads. Anyone can get an account there and not have to go through them. I never saw organic leads make it to the door on their own. 80-90% are from Reply.com.

The word Blackwater reminds me of the US Mercenary company.

Any marketing company that picks a name that brings up multiple negative images fails marketing 101 in my opinion.

I used to think RISMEDIA had very good articles...that is, until I noticed alot of it is subtle marketing ads in reality. I don't read them as much any more. Very glad to see some writing on the wall as I had been tempted once or twice. But, I always believe that if any one or company hooks a person up for a minimum one-year contract that they can't get out of...there must be a reason.

A $15,000 commission for one lead is GREAT, but it's only one lead! The point of lead generation is to generate leads. Your second year lead may only be $3,000, then what? Would BW say you made enough the first year on one lead that you can afford one low-ball lead each year for several years to come?

Does Blackwater Consulting Group practice click fraud?

The answer to the above question eludes me but I do have my suspicions.

Recently you may have received a lot of emails from Blackwater promoting their PMLS product.

The one that appealed to me was the one that offered this product for a period of 1 month with a guarantee that if they did not deliver 8 leads with that months trial subscription the fee of $450 would be refunded in full.

Here is a copy of the email:



Dear Real Estate Professional,

Perhaps you haven't seen our offers to try our PMLS Internet prospecting service for 30 days. Or, maybe you were waiting for the final offer's best terms. Whatever the reason, there's no longer any reason to wait because there is no way we can offer a better try-out to you of this remarkable system.

We invented the PMLS System two years ago. ("PMLS" means "Professionally Managed Lead Site" and it brings quality inquiries to you from clients. PMLS does not interfere with any other efforts you may be making in online marketing, we do everything and you handle the inquiries).

We have had real success with our clients and this product. In fact, more than 90% of PMLS clients are happy and continuing their subscriptions. Now, so we are offering you a 30 day trial subscription and if you don't get at least 8 real leads, you will have your one month subscription payment refunded in its entirety! We'll put up a prospecting website, with your photo and logo, branded to you and the market you serve; we will optimize it and use paid search; everything is included in the one month subscription payment. Within a week or so, you will be talking to Internet buyers who have visited your site and have further requests for information.

In addition to bringing you a minimum of 8+ real inquiries in the next 30 days (plus, it may take up to a week to get your site up and working for you)---or you don't pay--- If, after 30 days, you are unhappy FOR ANY REASON, you simply cancel with no further costs. If you are pleased, however, you can continue month to month, or annually (at a savings). Imagine having plenty of
transactions working over the next few months---traditionally, the slowest part of the year! PMLS will help you do just that.

Everything is included in the one monthly payment of $450.00. It's a wonderful thing to get 8+ serious prospects telling you what they want over the next 30 days without down payments and long commitments.

Click here and we'll tell you all about this 30 day trial offer. PMLS is a great innovation and you can afford it! C'mon---give it a try!
Best wishes,

The Blackwater Consulting Group


www.TheBlackwaterCG.com Info@theBlackwatercg
The Blackwater Consulting Group, Inc. 2533 N. Carson Street #3049, Carson City, NV 89706,

Sounds good doesn’t it? How can you lose?

On October 26/11 I signed up for this offer and paid them the fee of $450.

On November 1 the first lead was delivered to my inbox.

Subsequent leads followed on November 6, 9, 27 & 29

5 leads in total up to November 29.

On November 27 I wrote Art Lusby, the Blackwater representative an email requesting a refund. He informed me at that time the site went live November 1 and to give them until December 1 to generate the balance of the leads stating also that if they did not produce the 8 promised leads by that time they would give me a full refund.

A copy of that email is below:

Hi John. Yes, as of yesterday there were 4 leads. Some look pretty good and I hope you are successfully engaged with them. The site went live on 11/1, and we did just put some money into the promotion of it again, so would like to ask your forbearance for the next two days – until 12/1. We will, of course, provide a refund if the eight leads are not received by that time. Thanks for giving this a try, John, and – again – I do hope some of the prospects turn into closings for you.

Art Lusby
direct:


Online Marketing Services for REALTORS since 2005
www.theblackwatercg.com
alusby@theblackwatercg

On December 3rd and 6th I sent an email to art asking for confirmation of my refund. You can see the answer to that below:

Art Lusby alusby@theblackwatercg me
show details Dec 6 (9 days ago)


Yes John. I will check on it and confirm it has been processed later today.

Sent from my iPhone

On December 3rd a lead from Blackwater appeared in my inbox, then on December 7 another 2 leads magically appeared. Each of these leads were completely unrealistic in terms of home expectations at the price levels they stated. As a matter of fact all of the leads supplied previous to this had been similar in terms of unrealistic expectations on the part of the people sending them.

Where it took 4 weeks for 5 leads to be delivered it now only took days to conjure up the missing 3 leads.

And that was after the 1 month trial period had ended and I had requested a refund.

Subsequent emails to Art Lusby and the company have gone unanswered.

I still do not know if Blackwater Consulting Group practices click fraud but I do have suspicions.

Anyone else had this experience with Blackwater Consulting Group.

Folks, I not going to throw stones at either side in this match, but I'm a internet marketer and will comment on marketing.

The keyword "homes for sale" gives over 800,000,000 results, "mls listing" gives over 53,000,000; "sell my house" gives over 500,000,000. This is over ONE BILLION results, reaching page one on Google is virtually impossible. Everyone should scale back their dreams and go for keywords like "houses for sale lynchburg virginia" which has 1.1 million results where page one of google is a reachable goal.

Regards,
Wayne