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#386956 - 08/17/11 04:43 PM My first sale leaseback transaction. Need Help.
closeEscrow Offline
Member

Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 16
Loc: Louisiana
I'm representing an investor that coming in all cash purchasing a fruit /farmers market stand 10,000 sf built on 1.5 acre tract which includes the improvements and land together which as been in business for 8years. Purchase contracted has been executed, 30 day due diligence, seller will sign 10year lease with an option to renew for another 5years. I'm currently drafting the lease, getting appraisal, inspection, done asap. I requesting to see the last 5years tax return and p/l statement for the farmers produce market business. What else should i find out about this business financials, what determines if i need to implement a personal guarantee on the LLC or personal. What else would you suggest within this 30day contingency i need to find out. Any additional advice, suggestions, or comments will be respected.

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#386981 - 08/17/11 07:00 PM Re: My first sale leaseback transaction. Need Help. [Re: closeEscrow]
DRSRK Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 198
Loc: Phoenix
Originally Posted By: closeEscrow
I'm representing an investor that coming in all cash purchasing a fruit /farmers market stand 10,000 sf built on 1.5 acre tract which includes the improvements and land together which as been in business for 8years. Purchase contracted has been executed, 30 day due diligence, seller will sign 10year lease with an option to renew for another 5years. I'm currently drafting the lease, getting appraisal, inspection, done asap. I requesting to see the last 5years tax return and p/l statement for the farmers produce market business. What else should i find out about this business financials, what determines if i need to implement a personal guarantee on the LLC or personal. What else would you suggest within this 30day contingency i need to find out. Any additional advice, suggestions, or comments will be respected.


Based on what I read here I am assuming that none of the financial information was reviewed or evaluated prior to writing the contract? I have been involved of the sale of two of my businesses and each time most of the above information except for inspections and appraisals was looked at prior to writing the contract.Once the contract was written I was required to sign a 4056-T IRS form so the buyer could get copies of tax returns that I had filed with the IRS to verify they matched what I had shown or told them previously.The buyers in my situation only asked for three years of tax returns and plus any P&L's to bring the information up to date. They also had a complete inventory as part of the contract of anything they might be getting right down to spare parts. Is the seller offering to stay on with any training or to make a smooth transition? I cannot help you much on the lease as my slaes included the real estate so there was no lease.The 4056-T forms are pretty important to the buyer as it assures them the numbers they are using to buy the business are what are being reported, sometimes they do not match. mad I am not sure what you mean on the personal guarantee is it from the buyer or seller? That is about all I can add from my personal experience, but I am sure you will hear more from others on the forum. yay


Good Luck
_________________________
“There are no secrets to success: don’t waste time looking for them. Success is the result of perfection, hard work, learning from failure, loyalty to those for whom you work, and persistence.” Colin Powell

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#386993 - 08/17/11 07:48 PM Re: My first sale leaseback transaction. Need Help. [Re: closeEscrow]
Vermont Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 4726
Loc: Vermont's North-East Kingdom
But this isn't really the sale of a business . . . . only the sale of the underlying land (and improvements?) and a commitment to lease it back and continue to operate the business just as before; but now as a tenant/lessee instead of as an Owner.

The Seller is just using this mechanism as a source of working capital that can be used for another purpose to expand the business, hiring labor . . . . or maybe just spent.
_________________________
Dale C. Hittle of GOLDEN RULE PROPERTIES in Glover, Vermont
Where We're Always Striving To Put Together "THE FAIR DEAL"

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#387033 - 08/18/11 06:43 AM Re: My first sale leaseback transaction. Need Help. [Re: Vermont]
DRSRK Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 198
Loc: Phoenix
Originally Posted By: Vermont
But this isn't really the sale of a business . . . . only the sale of the underlying land (and improvements?) and a commitment to lease it back and continue to operate the business just as before; but now as a tenant/lessee instead of as an Owner.

The Seller is just using this mechanism as a source of working capital that can be used for another purpose to expand the business, hiring labor . . . . or maybe just spent.



Vermont after re reading the OP I agree with you it looks like it is a sale of RE. Thing that got me is would you typically ask the lessee for tax returns and P&l's? It would seem to be a moot point after your have entered a contract to purchase unless he has the right to back out after he does due diligence.
_________________________
“There are no secrets to success: don’t waste time looking for them. Success is the result of perfection, hard work, learning from failure, loyalty to those for whom you work, and persistence.” Colin Powell

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#387037 - 08/18/11 07:13 AM Re: My first sale leaseback transaction. Need Help. [Re: closeEscrow]
Vermont Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 4726
Loc: Vermont's North-East Kingdom
Originally Posted By: DRSRK
". . . Thing that got me is would you typically ask the lessee for tax returns and P&l's? . . ."
Knowing mySelf, I probably would . . . . but you have to look at "the going concern" and the likelihood that the proprietor is going to want stick around and keep on going. But he's usually a known quantity.

We do quite a few of these in the Christmas Tree Plantation business, where a Grower will take a field and invest in developing a grove of Trees that won't be marketable for 7 to 10 years; but will require continual shearing, fertilizing and spraying with pesticides.

Plantations cannot be abandoned to grow on their own, and the new Landlord/Lessor has to have confidence that the Grower/Lessee will attend to these vulnerable trees for the life of the Crop. Then leases get renewed as Growers interplant new seedlings, with the hope of a profit way way down the pike.

Many times, the sale is dependent upon just a nominal annual lease until the trees are reaching the age that they can be harvested, and the Lessor gets a price per tree at the time of harvest (maybe $1.00 to $1.50 per tree). The number of trees planted, and the number of trees harvested is like an open book . . . . it's all right out there in the open . . . . and easily audited!

Good Growers will not want to tie up all of their capital in plantations whose profitability is, by necessity, being deferred by several years, so the sale and lease back provides them with that vehicle . . . . and they can use the proceeds to develop additional plantations.

Similarly . . . . but much different, is the proverbial Used Car Lot which can be a business one day . . . . and a vacant lot the next. I've seen National Banks go out and loan the big bucks on a Used Car Business which was doing a bang-up business at the time the loan was made (or a sale and leaseback was written) and then, after the money was pocketed, the Car Inventory drives off down the road to a seemingly better location, and all that's left is that dismal open field that has little prospect of doing anything for the pocketbook. And then the question has to be asked "What were you thinking ?"

I guess the future Owner/Lessor just has to use common sense:

Does the Lessee have more invested here than I ? I think you want the Lessee to still have a lot of skin in the game.
_________________________
Dale C. Hittle of GOLDEN RULE PROPERTIES in Glover, Vermont
Where We're Always Striving To Put Together "THE FAIR DEAL"

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#387251 - 08/19/11 11:42 PM Re: My first sale leaseback transaction. Need Help. [Re: closeEscrow]
super realtor Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 05/01/05
Posts: 8479
Loc: georgia
Gross sales don't mean squat.What is the profit after the add backs??

Will this investor run this business or have a manager run it.If the current owner runs it and pays themselves then having a manager do it will decrease current profit margins.

I don't care about 5 years ago.What is the business generating TODAY??

You pay based on what it is doing now not the potential,the debt,or the mismanagement of the business.

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#387718 - 08/25/11 02:09 AM Re: My first sale leaseback transaction. Need Help. [Re: super realtor]
closeEscrow Offline
Member

Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 16
Loc: Louisiana
Thank you all for the insights. I want to confirm that the seller looking to sell the building and land and stay back to operate his family produce market. At this point they are dragging their feet on releasing their previous tax returns and p/L statements for the previous 5years. We are trying to find out if the business has been profiting enough where they will be able to afford the monthly rent and still have enough earnings to carry on with the business perform and honor the lease for 10years. "Do they have enough skin in the game?" is poking out at us. My buyers would still be okay, if the seller becomes a tenant and bails out after 5 years. My buyers is looking at the this purchase more of a "land" acquisition angle. The exit strategy of my buyers for this piece would be to develop in to retail strip, alternative commercial use, or sell of the land after 10years or when the tenant leaves. The only thing we are afraid of is if the seller/tenant bails out on the lease within six months. We've asked the seller if they will continue to stay and perform the lease for 10year. A lease will not guarantee for them from splitting out early. How do you know the seller true intentions in this case wanting to become the single tenant for a complete 10years? They even countered back from the letter of intent asking for an option to renew for another 5years after the initial 10year term. Sounds good doesn't it. It would be better a better deal if the building was a commercial grade constructed, but in this case is a metal shingle wood frame farmers stand 10k sf with, that i can only see it as a seasonal tenant selling xmas trees, fireworks, or live fresh seafood. I'm currently not wasting my time right now drafting any lease, inspections, or appraisal until we see if the business as been profitable upwards annually. Would making the seller sign a personal guarantee make them have more to lose if they break or terminate the lease early? i haven't had any experience with a personal guarantee or know how far extent that can be utilize in court. Thanks for any further non legal advice.

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#387728 - 08/25/11 05:34 AM Re: My first sale leaseback transaction. Need Help. [Re: closeEscrow]
Vermont Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 4726
Loc: Vermont's North-East Kingdom
Dragging their feet, or maybe a bit shy.

Remember, Tax Returns on a "CASH" Business don't show the profitability of any business; they only show what was "reported" . . . . if you know what I mean.

Sometimes there are the "books" and then there are the "other books". Selling a business that deals in a lot of "CASH" almost always presents this problem.

I tell Sellers that Banks will only loan on the numbers that were reported; but often a lot of income somehow fails to show in the numbers that get reported. What can I say?

That's why I've been a big supporter of a National Sales Tax believing we should forget about the Income Tax . . . . if you spend the money, YOU GET TAXED. It doesn't matter is you're a prostitute or a pimp, a drug dealer, a hot dog stand street vendor, a motel operator . . . . or a cash crop farmer - if you spend the money, YOU GET TAXED.

And if you don't spend the money, YOU DON'T GET TAXED.

The current system simply makes too many people into tax cheats.

But I digress. Suffice it to say, your Seller deals in a lot of cash. A real investor already knows this.
_________________________
Dale C. Hittle of GOLDEN RULE PROPERTIES in Glover, Vermont
Where We're Always Striving To Put Together "THE FAIR DEAL"

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#387730 - 08/25/11 06:02 AM Re: My first sale leaseback transaction. Need Help. [Re: closeEscrow]
DRSRK Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 198
Loc: Phoenix
Originally Posted By: closeEscrow
Thank you all for the insights. I want to confirm that the seller looking to sell the building and land and stay back to operate his family produce market. At this point they are dragging their feet on releasing their previous tax returns and p/L statements for the previous 5years. We are trying to find out if the business has been profiting enough where they will be able to afford the monthly rent and still have enough earnings to carry on with the business perform and honor the lease for 10years. "Do they have enough skin in the game?" is poking out at us. My buyers would still be okay, if the seller becomes a tenant and bails out after 5 years. My buyers is looking at the this purchase more of a "land" acquisition angle. The exit strategy of my buyers for this piece would be to develop in to retail strip, alternative commercial use, or sell of the land after 10years or when the tenant leaves. The only thing we are afraid of is if the seller/tenant bails out on the lease within six months. We've asked the seller if they will continue to stay and perform the lease for 10year. A lease will not guarantee for them from splitting out early. How do you know the seller true intentions in this case wanting to become the single tenant for a complete 10years? They even countered back from the letter of intent asking for an option to renew for another 5years after the initial 10year term. Sounds good doesn't it. It would be better a better deal if the building was a commercial grade constructed, but in this case is a metal shingle wood frame farmers stand 10k sf with, that i can only see it as a seasonal tenant selling xmas trees, fireworks, or live fresh seafood. I'm currently not wasting my time right now drafting any lease, inspections, or appraisal until we see if the business as been profitable upwards annually. Would making the seller sign a personal guarantee make them have more to lose if they break or terminate the lease early? i haven't had any experience with a personal guarantee or know how far extent that can be utilize in court. Thanks for any further non legal advice.


As a lot of banks are finding out right now a personal guarantee is not meaning much to them when people are walking away.You can bet if the seller is using the lease back as an enticement for someone to buy and does not plan to honor that then his personal guarantee is not going to mean much. To me the buyer has to look to the future for the property and not much too the past.If the lease back works it is just a bonus. whisper
_________________________
“There are no secrets to success: don’t waste time looking for them. Success is the result of perfection, hard work, learning from failure, loyalty to those for whom you work, and persistence.” Colin Powell

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#387767 - 08/25/11 11:34 AM Re: My first sale leaseback transaction. Need Help. [Re: closeEscrow]
super realtor Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 05/01/05
Posts: 8479
Loc: georgia
On cash businesses or under reporting you would need to "watch the till" for a few weeks to see if the income is real and substantiated but just not claimed on taxes.

People do this all the time.Gas station owners are the worst.One set of books for the government on taxes and another set for themselves.They do not understand though that this hurts them when trying to sell or value the business.

I would value the land only as the building will have zero value.If the business owner defaults how much would tear down costs and who would be the target buyer??

Example is the land on a corner? Is there are traffic light or a stop sign? What is the daily traffic count on the road coming and going home sides?

How much land and what sales price are we talking here??You have to know what you can get for the land.What is the foreclosure process in your state? How much and how long would a foreclosure take?

If this is rural land where the site could eventually go commercial there is too much risk.If commercial has built up around it and utilities are available at the road then landing another commercial property immediately is much easier.

Any time you have a mom and pop the risk is higher.

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