I'm going to try and keep this post as short as possible and am very hopeful that I can get some constructive and objective advise.

At the end of May I listed a property with an agent that had recently sold the house across the street from me for a price that was reasonable (not over or under priced based on comps) and did so quickly given the current market.

I interviewed her twice and prior to getting the listing she was VERY good. I mean, VERY VERY VERY good. She had terrific ideas that even I didn't think of (and I've bought and rented property for almost 20 years). As I said, I prior to signing, it was clear that she was VERY good at "selling" (at least "selling me" to list with her).

Once the property was listed things started to quickly go down hill. When it came time to photograph the property, the photographs were HORRIBLE (blurry, date stamp, dark, just horrible -- the point where a 12 year old said "that's really bad!" -- anyway, I called and discussed the bad pictures and was told they would be fixed. They weren't. The date stamp is STILL there to this day. The writeup was horrible, to the point where I had to rewrite it because the agent couldn't proofread anything. The writeup got a little better after a lot of begging.

Naturally, by now, all the "other" sites (realtor.com, zillow, etc.) had picked up the listing, some I could correct manually (Zillow), others I have no way to fix unless I'm the agent.

Anyway... that is just a taste of the total disaster behind the media end of things.

Additional information:
- 6 month listing (I want to vomit just thinking about this)
- Nothing about the kind of realtor.com listing in the contract
- Nothing about how I can get out of from under this horror in the contract

As far as negotiations go, she basically does what she wants and doesn't really listen or entertain any suggestion(s) that I make.

I know what you're going to say: "Talk to the broker". Haahahahahahahaha I did that, three times. Even had a conference call with him and the agent. In the end the broker says they are going to do such-and-such and it never happens. When you call and ask why it never happens, he hangs up on you.

Next step: I called the national head office and asked what to do... ready for this one?!?! They say to call the next nearest broker and have that broker-of-record call your broker-of-record and try to hash it out. That was a total failure. It's basically, a no win situation.

... Mind you, I understand (fully) the market that we're in, and I understand that inventory is sky-high. But what I can tell you is that in this particular development, properties that are priced right and remodeled sell VERY quickly... but this one hasn't.

Next... I've tried communicating with other agents to find one that IS interested in properly marketing the property (proper photos, etc.) and they all come across as mine did. They are all nice-nice and they're going to do the world to sell the property. Then you ask them to send it all over to you in writing. I NEVER HEAR BACK FROM THEM AGAIN!

So, there you have it. There's even more, but I think that should paint a good picture of what I'm up against.

Let me have it.

Pete

Next... I've tried communicating with other agents to find one that IS interested in properly marketing the property (proper photos, etc.) and they all come across as mine did. They are all nice-nice and they're going to do the world to sell the property. Then you ask them to send it all over to you in writing. I NEVER HEAR BACK FROM THEM AGAIN!

^^^^^Because you're under contract with a broker, is why. We're not allowed to interfere.

As far as negotiations go, she basically does what she wants and doesn't really listen or entertain any suggestion(s) that I make.

^^^^^What negotiations? Are you in escrow?

- What do you mean "interfere"? I'm asking them to put what they are promising in writing... if nothing else, so I can have them "ready" when the contract ends... or when my attorney compels the broker to release me.

- Offer/counteroffer negotiations.

"Interfere" as in get in the middle of a seller and his agent. We can't do that. They'll get back to you after your listing expires.

What do you need that will make you happy?

If you read my OP it will tell you some of the issues -- hence, not having those issues would make me happy. Thanks.

Look at your original contract and see what it says. Its not her job to take your advice. She has to follow your orders though. Offering advice and issuing an order are different. She may not agree with your order though, but must follow it.

Make a record of everytime you called, emailed, showed up at the office and got no results. You can claim your agent abandoned you by not returning calls, emails, if the brokerage wants to actually sue for fees. That opens up a chance to interview other agents and get what you want.

But does your experience also include having sold some Real Estate . . . . or is this your first time out ?

You've been listed since way back at the end of May (2011) ? Is that all of six weeks? It sounds like you've taken this adversarial position since the beginning. I sincerely wonder how anyone can concentrate on getting your property sold when you're engaged in this continuous nit-picking.

I really don't see where you have anything YET to be seriously bothered with . . . . but this is just the beginning of the sales effort. Did that only begin once you were under the Listing Agreement? Were your neighbors across the street as disappointed as you are? If they're still in the area, you should ask them. But as you said, the same horrible Agent did succeed in selling their home.

I think you'd tend to find something wrong with everything that anyone does in working for you on anything. . . . so it might be best, when the Contract expires, to do it yourself perfectly. Otherwise, you will never be happy.

I wonder if the Agent is the one who has the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde personality (Before the Listing and After) . . . . or is it you ?

@ REO: Thank you for the advice and thoughts! I've been keeping a log and doing so is drawing a VERY good picture that she is doing NOTHING in my best interest. I'll give you an example (especially for Vermont to read): One party that is interested in the property made another counter offer. My agent asked me what I wanted to counter offer. I sent her a list of various scenarios that would work (different sale amounts with other variables). I asked my agent to look at it and let me know which one she wanted to do. FOUR DAYS LATER I call her and ask what ever happened to the last offer (which scenario did she think would be best, etc.).

Her answer? She made an offer that was NONE of the scenarios that I listed! I didn't even bother to reply to her yet -- at this point, I'm concentrating on getting a few other agents to put their "promises" in writing and then I'll select one from there. Hopefully, my attorney can get a letter to the current agency to get me out of this disaster quickly.

@ Vermont: With all due respect, you're not offering a single bit of help. I know I know I know... I'm just a stupid seller and you need to "control" the seller and all of that crap. Again, and with all due respect, I'm looking for solutions, and not for people like you. Thank you and have a Blessed Day.

I sent her a list of various scenarios that would work (different sale amounts with other variables). I asked my agent to look at it and let me know which one she wanted to do.


^^^^^ wrong answer. It's your decision to counter whatever you want as long as it's legal.

FOUR DAYS LATER I call her and ask what ever happened to the last offer (which scenario did she think would be best, etc.)

^^^^ sounds like she's avoiding you.

Her answer? She made an offer that was NONE of the scenarios that I listed! I didn't even bother to reply to her yet -- at this point I started running around and bad-mouthing her based on assumptions (paraphrased.)

^^^^ if there is any way that you two can talk, I would highly recommend it. You need to find out why she didn't present your myriad of offers - maybe she did - maybe they were illegal - who knows? You don't know but you are complaining and bad-mouthing her to everyone who'll listen.

All I know for sure is the same as what Vermont knows - you're nit picky. They fixed the media and you're still whining - they've brought in offers to counter but you're not happy with the Realtor.com website that wasn't even needed because you're getting offers, right?

Do have a talk with your Realtor.
And stop being so mean.
Ok?

I beginning to think it's an industry thing based on the lack of reading that some folks here are doing with my OP.

First, nitpicky? Really? Typos, lying on the listing? The media is STILL not right. Not sure where you read it was fixed.

The reason she didn't present my scenarios is likely because they included her reducing her (and the buyer's agent's) commissions by .003% (That's right by 3/10 of a point!)... But she said she'd "consider it" -- which never happened.

I've already been looking at securing domain names to set up sites to warn others not steer clear of this agency... It's my responsibility to warn others about how they operate.

All I'm looking for here is any advice that the honest members of the forum can provide as to how to get rid of her and any hints or ideas for interviewing a replacement that does what they say. I've got two prospects, and so far they BOTH claim they'll put in writing all the things that this woman has done wrong - so it doesn't happen again.

So you can mistaken your lack of attention to detail for "nitpicky" LOL. But at the end of the day, it is what it is. If you don't have attention to detail, you can keep your sloppy listings and your sloppy business practices and let the professional agents get the business. ;)

Let me get this straight. You are asking your Realtor to take a paycut after you signed the listing agreement at 6% (I assume)

So let's look at this scenerio. What would you do tomorrow if you showed up at work and your boss said hey needhelpinnj I need to tell you that we will have you work your normal 5 day 40 hour work week all month but we are docking your pay $600.00 for no good reason... Are you cool with that??

And by the way since it is ol for this month it will be the new norm and you just took a $7,200.00 annual salary cut.

This is what you are asking your agent to do.

If your agent offered up $600 to close a deal that is one thing but you as the seller have no right to demand that any Realtor take a paycut.

In addition you cut the listing agents pay and they still have to pay the buyers agent full commission as stated in the listing agreement/MLS listing. This is NOT negotiable by any broker.

It seems that you are not happy with the professional opinion of anyone who has reached out.

I would suggest letting your listing expire and go FSBO.

This way you will only have yourself to blame for any further issues in selling your home.

There are a lot of great agents out there for you to choose from. Maybee you got a bad apple but is not the industry standard by any means.

Good luck to you.

Happy 4th...

We did; but you don't seem to like it.I'm sorry. I thought you wanted objective advise advice. You deserve a FULL REFUND.
That's part of the problem. But you just think you know.
But really, I don't think you should proofread anything either. Just have someone else check what you've written here today.I think NJ Agents are smart enough to recognize your profile.
Your sincerity is profane; but you have one of those too! And recognize that having an Offer on your property is a Blessing (IF you really want to sell).

Ugh, Vermont. I know I'm the newbie here... but people like you really are a huge part of the problem. I'm sorry it's not 2006 anymore and that you actually have to work for your money now. But don't take it out on the customer. Sort of funny to watch you defend gross incompetence, however...

Okay here goes.......Did you hire her because she was easy to look at and made you feel good?

An objective look at this -

He said, she said doesn't have any teeth. Written records (certfied mail, emails with sent dates) work.

I have been keeping a journal - Again, it's not really a written record. Kind of like a diary, it's a one sided document.

Start a "bash" website - Lot's of people do that. The internet empowers them to publish almost anything. But be sure you can document anything you publish. The cost of defending your website in any kind of slander lawsuit will eat up all your real estate transaction profits.

How should you proceed: If you have email addresses for all of the parties, send you requests and cc: everyone involved. Then you are on-record that the media is amateurish and that your counteroffers are clear to everyone involved. I always get counters via email. And I would never accept a list of four possible counters. Settle on one and an agent will convey it to a buyer's agent.

If you have a problem, try contacting the local Realtor Association. They should respond to a consumer complaint, but you need to realize that plenty of people with petty issues show up at associations wanting the scalp of some agent or broker. You need to keep it logical, factual and to the point. Name calling and finger pointing just bring you down to another level.

I hope it all works out well for you.

PA: Thanks, that's what I'm doing. The Realtor Association was a joke. They asked if I wanted to file a complaint -- I asked how long it takes? Up to 4 months. LOL. Yeah, the contract is over by then!

Ugh.

If you put half the energy into selling the house instead of this stuff it would be sold.

From your posts it seems you have a view of brokers/agents are not worth what they are paid.If that's your position you should have negotiated your position more before signing the listing agreement.

That is all on YOU.You could say you were going to pay XX because they agreed to do XYZ. Again if you didn't put a clause in where you could cancel and had it in writing it is on YOU. You could have expressed any concerns to your attorney before signing the listing agreement to know your rights and expectations.

It sounds like you didn't do that.So in this relationship it sounds like you are just as much as at fault as the broker/agent.

How many months did it take to get under contract and sell the house across the street??

If you were only listed in May and your price point takes 4 to 6 months to sell and close if priced right then your expectations are unrealistic to be sold in 2 months.

Sounds like from what you have said you received an offer or offers and that your solution was for the broker/agent to take a hit on commission.You are legally bound to pay that commission out if an acceptable offer is brought to you. You wanting to get the commission reduced to net more for yourself is not an option in the cards.

It just seems that you have some valid and also misguided thoughts about how a transaction works.

Many times sellers will sign a listing agreement and come back and say why don't you do this and this and this to sell it?? The problem is the broker/agent took the listing under the terms of we will do regular marketing for this price according to our costs and business model.

If a seller comes back and wants extra stuff here is a thought.You the seller pay for ALL of this extra stuff you want and keep the certified receipts and when it sells it will be deducted off the commission.

This makes the seller a partner in the deal and have skin in the game.It also makes the seller think long and hard about what marketing to spend money on and what not to.When I market commercial real estate I spend about 1,000 per property and you better believe unless they list for a certain price I won't list it.

I wouldn't do a slander website and I am sure your attorney will advise heavily against it.Your suggestion of doing that shows you are not thinking clearly.If the broker doesn't have much into the property they should release you and not have the headache.Sounds like you received an offer you just didn't like.The buyers didn't like your proposals so they walked.

I am not there nor is anyone on this board.Having great pictures is nice but the price sells it in the end.

Good Luck - No Legal Advice

Oh really; what kind of people am I? Actually, there is no problem except that AFTER your Agency has succeeded in bringing you a ready, willing, and able Buyer . . . . you’re now trying to wiggle out of the Listing Contract. The problem is staring you back in the face when you look in the mirror.You don’t hear me whining. Besides, your “problem” has nothing to do with me. And I do this analysis for free because I enjoy it. I take pleasure in helping people identify the underlying causes of their perceived discomfort.

Slowly, the real facts surrounding your discontent are emerging. The fact that you are in the middle of Contract negotiations with a prospective Buyer is critical to this whole discussion. It should have been mentioned in the first few paragraphs you wrote yesterday. After all, and it is obvious, that is what triggered your current irritation with your Agent.At least we agree on the presence of humor here. But I ask you “What is incompetent about your “horrible” Agent bringing you Offers on your house?” That’s what you hired her to do! I now suspect that you don’t really want to sell, and you are trying desperately to sabotage the transaction.

What Pete is doing is akin to his hiring someone to paint his house . . . . and after they’ve finished painting, Pete starts bickering and complaining that the color of the paint he chose is all wrong. They did their job! Think about it.
Or worse yet . . . . your house could be SOLD if you will simply get out of the way and allow them to get on with finalizing the Purchase and Sales Agreement. Instead, you choose to now try to fiddle with the rate of compensation that you previously agreed to in a Listing Agreement. You’re just creating a distraction. The time to do that was when you were listing the property.

Pete here has spent so much of his time wallowing in negativity that he’s lost sight of what the mission of the Listing Agency was (and is) . . . . to produce a Buyer for his property, and now that they have succeeded in promptly doing that, he doesn't know what to do with it except complain.

It’s pretty clear that there’s no basis for a complaint that can be taken seriously. It’s not about Date Stamps, Grammar, Blurry Photos, Penmanship, Sentence Structure or any of that absolutely horrible stuff that seems to have made your life so miserable . . . . it’s about getting your property sold. Despite all of your protestations . . . . your Agent seems to have performed well. You just can't bring yourself to recognize it !

Hi Pete,

Sorry you are going through such trouble. I'm not going to nitpick what you've done.

I find it interesting that you say when it came time to do the pictures you didn't like them. The "when it came time to do them" is the part that interested me. I feel that it is a lousy agent who doesn't do the pictures, videos, virtual tours or whatever prior to or at the same time as the listing agreement is signed. Nevermind the bad pictures part. These things all need to be done and prepared at the same time the listing is put on the MLS. There is no need for a wait of more then 24 hours from the time you sign your listing agreement and when it is put on the MLS. That's just laziness.

I'm not sure what you mean with regard to the listing on realtor.com. I wouldn't worry to much about that. Realtor.com is lousy. But if that's important to you ask your next listing agent if they or their office do enhanced or showcase listings on Realtor.com. If they don't know what you mean then don't use them. They aren't very knowledgable. I don't use Realtor.com enhanced listings, but I at least know what it is.

My next question is have you had a fair amount of showings?

You say you are going through a counter/offer period. The 4 day response time from your agent is unacceptable. The whole thing should be taken care of in 4 days. Either under contract or not. At least that is how it is around here.

If you don't have offers on the table at the moment getting negotiated I suggest you fire her as an agent (hopefully that will go easily). You should be able to interview other agents as you are calling them. Not them calling you. Just let them know your situation.

If you are getting a fair amount of showings relist with another agent for the same price.

I don't think you are going to be able to repair your relationship with this agent at this point.

I'm not sure what to tell you about getting other agents to put what they are going to do in writing. They probably don't want to as you are still under contract with the other agent for the listing. They probably will if you are no longer listed with another agent.

But hint hint. In your next counters and such don't try and negotiate commissions. Do that at the listing time. Negotiate price on the counters.

Dude knows he's been an ****** and he's here trolling because he's a masochist - he knows it - he even said "let me have it" so lets give it to him and end the thread. No more attention.

If he wants a beating for being a jerk, he can go pay his dominatrix - we've better things to do with our time, same as the other agents he interviewed and later ditched his dumb ***** for being dumb.

/thread over.

Colo: Thanks for the reply! Unlike some of the others that have replied you've given me some helpful advice! To answer some of your questions... Yes, I've had (according to her) a good amount of showings. I have no way of knowing if what she says is true since I'm 1200 miles away. I've done a very thorough comp study and we're spot-on with our price based on the most recent comps.

Honestly, I don't believe ANYTHING that she says. As far as I know she hasn't shown it at all. I just found out she had an open house on Sunday -- I found out after the fact. LOL.

At this point, the attorney is working to get rid of her and I THINK I've secured a replacement that was as disgusted as I was by the way things have gone so far. She's willing to put everything in writing, so we'll see where it goes.

Thanks!

P.S. "Vermont" -- just because I can't resist answering you... "bringing me a ready and willing buyer" means NOTHING if the buyer they brought me isn't ready and willing to buy the property for market price. If you think I'm wrong, I'll buy a listing of yours for 1/3 of the price -- and I'm ready and willing, so where do I sign?

I'm new here, but from what I can see you're the village jerk. I guess every forum has to have one.

Thanks for the help! You must have had the same training as my agent. LOL.

Aha - a new twist is added. The OP is 1200 miles away and trying to micromanage the transaction via email or phone calls.

When I worked in south Florida, about half of our transactions were absentee owners, either snowbirds or an estate. If someone tried to micromanage like this I would always quickly release them from their listing agreement. But once we had an offer, that seller was stuck with me, like it or not.

You signed an agreement to pay a specific amount of money for a specific result. You have an offer - accept, reject or counter.

By the way, is your attorney working on a contingency fee or did you have to pay them first?

[quote=PA Roadkill]Aha - a new twist is added. The OP is 1200 miles away and trying to micromanage the transaction via email or phone calls.

When I worked in south Florida, about half of our transactions were absentee owners, either snowbirds or an estate. If someone tried to micromanage like this I would always quickly release them from their listing agreement. But once we had an offer, that seller was stuck with me, like it or not.

You signed an agreement to pay a specific amount of money for a specific result. You have an offer - accept, reject or counter.

By the way, is your attorney working on a contingency fee or did you have to pay them first?[/quote]

LOL. Yeah, I'm "micromanaging" LOLOLOLOL. Because I want pictures that actually let you SEE the property and because I don't want her making counteroffers that I didn't authorize.

If that's micromanaging, what's not?

LOL -- This is a funny place. I only wish there was a way to know who you really were so innocent people can avoid you.

Coming in after reading only half the thread:

To the OP: I think you have every right to be outraged over the pictures that went up. That is completely unprofessional and inexcusable. Ditto on the typos.

You are not being nitpicky for wanting your home to be presented in an appealing and intelligent manner.

I don't know what to comment about the negotiations - not knowing what they were, etc.

As to the other agents not responding, I can understand that. You are fresh into a 6 month listing. I would start talking to agents in a few months, closer to your expiration date.

I think you and this agent are having a serious personality clash, and perhaps you need to go meet with the broker - AGAIN - and ask for a different agent - we do that occasionally here if there is a conflict and it can't be happily resolved.

I am somewhat ashamed of the attitude this seller has gotten from the agents here.

PEOPLE, THIS SELLER JUST WANTS NICE PICTURES AND A SENSIBLE DESCRIPTION THAT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS WRITTEN BY AN INTELLIGENT PROFESSIONAL - not a 4th grader. He shouldn't have to FIGHT for it! HE SHOULDN'T HAVE HAD TO ASK FOR IT! It should have been DONE RIGHT to begin with!

It amazes me. I am working with someone right now who is expiring in a few weeks. THEY contacted me and told me it's been almost 18 months and no action on their property. I look up their listing. 1 picture. No description. NO DESCRIPTION!!!! And the picture makes it look like a forlorn lonely place rather than the exciting property that it is. THIS IS INEXCUSABLE! This is the work of agents who are either a) stupid, b) lazy, or c) trying to prevent mls sales and hang on till they can get their own buyer.

All three are working AGAINST the best interest of the seller. And until we stand up and agree that this is inexcusable, instead of ripping a seller like the OP who is upset by poor service, this crap in our business will continue.

I'm behind what Perky says - it is a little alarming that everyone is attacking this NJ person! Brokers usually are much more cautious in what they say, so, these may be salesperson licensees who are being difficult on this forum. (I can't remember who is who - have enough of a difficult time with client names).

Decent pictures and legible words really aren't too much to ask from a professional (luckily at least, in VA, you've got to have a high school diploma now!!! Duh!). Dated photos shouldn't be an issue, other than the dates are unattractive. Besides, my MLS actually dates the year on the photos automatically anyway - there's NO way around it.

Being far away doesn't help. But I commend the agent for having an Open House when you didn't even expect it. Did you give them credit for that "freebie" since it wasn't on a list?

Whine about realtor.com - who cares? Realtor.com may have alot of homes but its website is so slow when I use it (even though I'm a Broker). I don't have Enhanced Listings b/c it's expensive and all Enhanced Listings really does is send any inquiries directly to that listing agent whereas it otherwise ends up with an agent who is "enhanced" versus not enhanced. You need to know alot of these websites are just out to sell r.e. agents stuff, stuff, stuff. Zillow? I have all my listings blocked now from Zillow b/c I find it to be an unreliable site for accurate information.

In the vast, vast, vast majority of listings, listing agents are not the ones who bring the buyer. Even if he/she found the buyer instead of a cooperating agent, would you really want your agent representing both of you - ask your lawyer THAT when you talk with them next.

Attempting to hack the commission of your agent. The listing agent is obligated to pay the cooperating buyer's agent whatever percentage the Listing Agent put in the MLS listing. Do not ever ask or infer to your agent to "cut" their commission. If your Listing Agent approaches you and says she'll cut her side to make it work - that is totally different. YOU are obligated by the Listing Agreement for any earned commissions.

If YOU are intelligent enough to draw up FOUR (4), I gotta repeat it, FOUR (4) different counteroffer scenarios, you're intelligent enough to figure out the best one - and it's NOT the one where you imply your agent will "cut" their commission.

Any offer that comes in with 1/3 off a reasonably priced listing price is NOT a serious buyer.

What else was there? It was an awful lot of complaining.

Oh yeah, another was the Realtors' Assocation was a joke. I guess it's a joke b/c you didn't get "instant" satisfaction to our process of finding the truths of a problem. Thank God for remediation and due process.

I can see it though, Perky, this person CAN bring out hostility - perhaps it's the way they "infer" everything.

I realize that now, having read the rest of the thread. Intelligent descriptions and nice pictures really should be the NORM, not some bonus you have to beg for.

I still think a lot of the hostility here toward the seller is unjustified. The seller is reasonably ticked off that his agent has been less than professional.

I do have to disagree about enhanced listings - they do more than send the lead to the listing agent. They allow you to post 25 pictures (instead of the standard 25) and create custom test descriptions (standard is just a bulleted list of features) and add virtual tours AND videos. The custom description is great because it allows me enough space to say everything I want to say about the property - whereas the MLS has a limitation of 500 characters or something. I have gotten several leads and closed at least two transactions from Realtor.com. It costs me a minimal monthly fee as my broker subsidizes most of the cost. I will say that I think it's a flipping RIP OFF to PAY them for that, but that's beside the point.

ANYWAY - I understand the OP has gotten under the skin of nearly every agent on here due BUT let's remember - he was already ticked off when he got here due to his agent dropping the ball.

It does reflect poorly on us. :-/

Regarding discounted commissions:

Early last year, I had some sellers call me about listing their home (not a short sale). I nearly broke both legs getting over to their property. The wife was a nurse and the husband an attorney (red flag?). When it came time to sign the listing agreement, the husband asked me to lower my commission. I then asked him if he thought he was the best in his field? Of course, he says yes. I then asked him, "how do you react when your clients ask you to reduce your fee?" He says "I don't". "You don't do what?", I replied...."Reduce my fee", he states. "We're both in the same boat, as I feel I'm the best in my field", I said. I then said, "I believe you called me based on a rerral from one of your friends". I then listed the property and sold it for over $10k over listed price (in 5 days) and for cash with a two week closing. They have been a great referal base ever since.

And if you have the kahunas to say you're the best in your field and you deserve your fee, you darn well better deserve it. Putting up crappy pictures and a typo-filled description does not equal "best in the field."

I have a minimum I work for. If the seller is unwilling to pay it they are free to sign someone else's contract. If they sign mine, they are agreeing to pay what is on the contract. And if I don't live up to my end of the bargain I have no right to get bent out of shape if the client gets upset and complains to the broker that they want a new agent.

Perky

I was only referring to myself. From day one in this business, I found I only have one competitor and that would be myself. I offer a service and knowledge. Without that, I'd have no referral base. As for quality pictures and a well written desciption of the property, that's all part of the service.

I know. I'm just sayin' in general.

To the OP - I am very sorry you got roasted on this thread. All you wanted was a competent agent to do a professional job. It really isn't too much to ask.

Though I do agree with the others that asking for a commission cut when you've already agreed to a certain amount is generally not going to win you any popularity contests. This is the only business where if you do you job (bring a buyer) you get asked to take a pay cut. LOL.

Ah! I'm so happy the real professionals are starting to come along!

Perky, my rationale behind asking for an adjustment (remember it amounted to 3/10 of a percent!) was because the agent didn't effectively market the property, and since she didn't she shouldn't get the full amount anyway. In fact, if you saw the listing you would think she should be more of a $495 flat rate type. LOL.

Anyway, I'm VERY thankful that you've replied -- some of the posters here really had me going and thinking that Realtors were all the same!

Lawyer is working on the letter to get rid of her -- so hopefully she'll be gone soon and I can start working to prevent others from the same experience I dealt with. It'll be a 100% FACTUAL chronological detail of how she operates. Then others can decide from there.

Anyway... I'm thankful that I was able to find some of the folks here as well as my new agent (hopefully, if she does what she says she'll do). I look forward to having a listing and an agent that presents the property professionally.

Hey! Before I forget. Did I mention the "debate" we got in between if the house was a 3 or 4 bedroom? Mind you the house is a cape cod, and you walk up the stairs into a "sitting room" (stairs on the side, not center) and then you walk across the room to the master bedroom and bath. Anyway... that room, the room you "walk through" (no door, no closet, and open to the stairs below) she INSISTS we should list as a bedroom. So we had a TON of people look at the house and ask where the 4th bedroom was. -- I asked her about it and she said, "let's let the buyers decide if they want to call it a bedroom". So we had a bunch of people with 3 kids that had ZERO interest.

There is even MORE to tell about this dolt... but I think you get the picture.

Thanks again for the help and support!

:)

Pete I'm thinking I kind of am misunderstanding your negotiation on the commission. You had mentioned your negotiating the commission affecting what would be given to the buyers agent. If so that's kind of tough for a listing agent to do. At least in Colorado it's not in good taste and I'm not sure even legal to negotiate commission between the agents in the purchase contract. After all that isn't a contract between your agent and the buyer agent or between you and your listing agent. It's a contract between you and the buyer. At least that's the way it is in Colorado.

So if you want to negotiate the commission with the listing agent when an offer comes in you could just ask the listing agent after all other kinds of negotiation have failed if to make this deal work if she could lower her commission 0.003%. Then amend the listing agreement to take that into consideration. Don't involve the buyer agent. I don't know what the value of your property is, but it seems to be a 0.003 change could be negotiated in the price not the commission.

But if the offer is a full list price with no concessions if I were you I wouldn't try that with the listing agent either because if you got that good of an offer that listing agent either does do a good job or got lucky. Either way you sold your property.

Other then that I think it's fine for you the client to ask for a commission reduction. Nearly everything in a real estate deal in negotiable. Sadly though loan underwriter conditions seem not to be negotiable. So it doesn't hurt to ask. I wouldn't like being asked that as an agent, but you bet if I was hiring an agent I might ask that if it came down to it.

OMG on the bedroom debate. OMG. A bedroom needs a door, a closet and a window big enough for egress...don't know if it's different in NJ though.

Wow.

The offer wasn't for anything near asking price -- and the slight reduction would have served many purposes. It would have dropped the sale price below the next "big" level as well as given the buyer the final "look we're all in this game now" point of view. My agenda at the end of the day was to get the lazy (and yes, that's what I'm calling her now) realtor to STOP "banking" that she has a low-baller in her "back pocket" and to start actually doing her job!

Perky: Yup. And that's not even all of it! Silly little things like when she wrote the directions to the first open house. She made it seem like the house was across the street from a mall! When instead the mall was just a landmark for the first turn in the directions (not sure if that just made sense) -- anyway, I pointed it out, and she admitted it wasn't a good.

I'm just happy that I've gotten some positive feedback here and I should have a firm final plan with the atty to get rid of her.

What a shame. I lost the most valuable "fresh" period with such a horrible experience.

---

NOW! Let's turn this thread around. Hit me with things that should be (or may already be) on my list to protect myself from another one of these people.

! Thanks !

Pete

Ask your next agent to see a copy of a current listing they have and examples of how they market them. Either online or not. If it's online they should be able to e-mail you links and what not to show you. That should give you a good idea on the quality of presentation that agent makes for your property to the public. In fact you could start that on your own without even asking an agent. Just look on Realtor.com at homes in your area. Or other MLS searches.

Definitely scroll through pictures of listings. Make note of the listings with sensible descriptions, and excellent pictures. These are the agents to contact.

Looking at other listings & photos does seem like a viable way to see exactly how an agent presents a property to the public. I like that...except remember some of the remarks are really abbreviated words b/c some of us have sellers who want EVERYTHING put into the remarks and there's only so much space to do that. My gorgeous pictures tell the whole story; but, even then, the MLS will only allow "x" number of pictures too. Then, there's the thought one doesn't want to have tons of photos either b/c if you're telling the whole story, a buyer has no reason to see the house. If you put a few photos and they are WOW photos, one could anticipate (and want to SEE) the rest of the house b/c they'd expect it to look just as nice.

But then there's the not-so-pretty-looking house - how does one try to photograph THAT and still come out on top as having taken great pictures?

I've moved stuff around at the houses to take my photos. I always move the kitchen trash can out of the way, clear off the bathroom counters, clean off the magnets, photos, and notes from the refrigerator for the photos b/c the seller is too stubborn to remove or store these things somewhere else.

It's still Price, Condition (photos will reveal some of it - good or bad), and Location that sell it.

Thank you to everyone (ok, well, mostly everyone LOL) for all your help. At the end of the day I was forced to sever my relationship with the Realtor. Here's somewhat of an update:

After about 40 minutes of me sending them a fax (to be followed by a Certified Letter) informing them that there was no way to continue our relationship as it stood. I gave them an alternative to releasing me...

Guess what I get? I call from the agent telling me how the current buyer (the same one that's been around) has raised his offer price and presented his highest and best price. Still not at or above my bottom-line. At the same time I learned that another house (which is a slightly lower comp when you factor in +&- on both sides) just went under contract for more money. The comp was presented wonderfully (professional pictures, nice writeup, etc.).

I told my agent that I wasn't interested in the offer, but if they wanted to compensate me the money that they saved by not marketing it properly I would CONSIDER it. Mind you -- they had the listing for 2 months. I asked the agent to speak with her broker. The ACTUAL numbers would mean lowering the commission from $18750 to $17250. So it would have been $1500 -- that is ALL I was asking for -- think of how much better I could have done had the property had marketing that actually drove qualified buyers there!

The agent spoke with her broker and he declined to reduce the commission. I have notified them to withdraw the listing and I'm going to add it to my rental portfolio, which I should have done from the beginning... but was so "sold" by this agent, I thought I'd sell it with a reliable and dedicated agent.

I haven't received confirmation but am eager to get a professional photographer in there to take the pictures and get it rented.

I really do appreciate the help and thoughts (both in this thread and via PM) on this matter and I hope it helps others to take a second look at how they (especially some of you here that seem to have forgotten that without sellers you have no business) market and present properties. It isn't 2006 anymore -- and you actually have to rise to the top to get buyers to want to look at your properties!

I will say, that this experience, while expensive, has taught me a lot.

Thanks for reading, and thank you again.
Pete

Thought you guys might like to know that this entire thing turned out to be a NIGHTMARE!!!


If anyone here can help after reading this horror story... PLEASE SPEAK UP! I'm willing to listen to anyone! I'll be updating often!

Thanks,
Pete

P.S. Can somebody help me get a link up. I click the link button, but it doesn't do it properly...

See:

Moderator Note: You are not allowed to bash companies or agents by name on this forum. There are plenty of other media outlets to air your grievances specifically. This is not one of them.

WOW!! Be careful.. That is all I am sayin... You do realize you are bashing a national franchise on the web over an opinion that you have. They have a lot of cash to bash you right back with legal fees.

You don't get to do that until you've made 30 Posts here. Rules.

I'd still reserve the word "horrible" for circumstances that are far worse than yours. I keep waiting for the really bad part and all I come up with are these minor irritants.

I realize that this is still your first venture into SELLING something; but to be taken seriously, I'd cry "Wolf !" when there's a real problem.

Apparently, you've been insulated from anything really bad and don't appreciate your good fortune . . . . but good luck and have another Blessed Day.

30 Posts is the magic number.

Nevermind

And this string is why i stick to listing bank owned. no emotion, no tantrums, no trauma. Just sell it my own way and with no interference.

No problems. It is perfectly fine for me to share an experience as long as the experience is my own and true. Everything I have written is 100% true and my own. I would WELCOME Corporate to speak with me and resolve and close this issue. To date, I have reach out to them 4 times and have had NO support at all.

I do appreciate everyone's help!
Thanks,
Pete

Moderator Note: It is NOT Okay on AgentsOnline.net. This is NOT the forum for naming names and we are not in a position to verify the truth of statements made.

Pete, welcome to the wonderful world of real estate sales. honestly, I've seen more ethical and civil behavior at my local zoo, than I have among some real estate agents.

Oh Shana! I have to say, it's a real shame. In the past when I've bought things with an agent it was very cut and dry and pretty upfront and honest. I know all agents aren't like the one I made the horrible mistake of hiring.

They aren't letting go. They sent me another "offer" last night. This one gives them an even bigger commission (dual agent deal - same agent!) - I believe (but could be wrong) that it is just a ploy to keep the listing for as long as they can. I'm being reasonable and have told them I would entertain the offer ONLY after the listing agreement was changed to terminate on 8/15/2011 and only if the commission was reduced since now it is a dual agent deal -- It will no longer be a 1.25x4 deal, it'll be a 2x2 deal (they reduced from 5% to 4%)... I proposed a 3.5 deal (still allowing them to make more than the 1.25 deal prior).

I'm certain they'll ignore the entire thing. Which is perfectly fine by me since I have no desire to deal with a company like (name)!


I did RipoffReport.com and now I'm working on a bunch of regular "review" sites like Yelp, Google, etc. as well as the "Relator Reviews" sites...

I'll keep sharing my experience with (company), (agent), and () with the world. Sooner or later, they'll get the hint that I want NOTHING to do with them and that they've cost me a great deal of money and time with their unprofessional nonsense!

Pete

keep in mind that I am an industry veteran. here's an example of how the industry is structured, and to some extent why many agents act as they do. when a new agent is licensed, and takes employment with a broker, the first thing the agent is REQUIRED to do, in most cases, is to join and pay the local MLS and Association of Realtors. If the broker is a NAR member, ALL of the broker's agents MUST also be members, per NAR rules. NAR and its state affiliates is a private association. do you get the picture? this structure resembles a type of pyramid scheme, and has the effect of giving certain large entities in the industry, such as NAR, a monopoly, or near monopoly. coincidentally, NAR has been sued by the dep't. of justice for antitrust violations. the industry is conveniently well controlled by the big players at the top, and agents have no choice but to go with the flow. This type of distorted business environment breeds incompetence and corruption.

Why did I bother giving me two cents to what may be an unreasonable, unrealistic person? This is just a perception.

JackREO - The buyers' agents still have clients with emotions, tantrums and trauma. It's just so much easier to say we're dealing with a "bank" not a "person".

Where else but in REO can we tell a seller their property requires a gallon of Sunoco and a Bic lighter as the most appropriate improvement, and get a laugh. I once said to a bank client that the property was "bulldozer ready". She about fell over laughing. No emotion, just commission checks.

I just got one of those put under contract!!!! My husband kept telling me he'd buy the gas if the Bank would buy the match!

Pete (I know you and can not hold back any longer)
Please start being honest with us and yourself - You starting sharing details, then please share all of them.
How many offers has she presented in two months?
Where any of the offers CASH? BE HONEST PETEY
You had a strong cash offer didnt you?
You had an offer within 10% of asking price - right Pete?

Dont lie Pete - We can find your listing! In fact, why dont you post a link to your listing?
There are hundreds of listings and none selling in this NJ town - right Pete? Realtors are not closing, so that means no income (and you want to cut her throat?). It sounds like she is working around the clock to bring you offers. Do you want nice pictures or a sale -"Earth to Peter" - You are not getting full price. Time to get out of your own way, get off this site, go to a shrink and let her sell it!

(agent) is a well established agent here in North Jersey. She has had an ethical, stellar reputation for over 20 years. Hard worker. Moral person. She is also a Mother, Grandmother, an Italian Catholic & a human being. She is known to actually clean & stage her listings for absolutely free of charge by keeping a warehouse of home decor items in her home. She also tends to vacant listings, & cares for her Senior Citizen clients. She is the "Every-Man" of Real Estate. She is you & me-just a decent person trying to earn a living. To be the recipient of such venom & slander is unwarranted. All agents/brokers, beware, we are all at risk-Web Slander could end up happening to you, too. How sad. We are all at risk. We could also be attacked personally, violently, blamed for the worst economy in 20 years, the brunt of one man's personal frustration. Scary! Does he work? Where does he find this amount of time? Sad. No family, I guess. Nothing better to do. However, IRONICALLY, e-slander works both ways; Anyone in their own business could end up being devastated by false claims being posted on the web. We are all vulnerable to e-slander, regardless of our industry. Let's all protect ourselves by taking e-posts with a grain of salt & a dash of truth. After all, the truth is in the LIGHT. God Bless.

Not to mention that a broad stroke such as this against an entire franchise hurts many innocent people who had nothing to do with the transaction at ALL.

The internet is great but it can also be very dangerous in the hands of someone with time to kill and an ax to grind.

Furthermore, Pete, when you signed the contract you agreed to pay a certain amount of commission, regardless of who brought the deal to you.

I agree that commission reduction is a touchy issue with any broker. people don't realize the tremendous amount of time and money brokers and agents spend promoting a listing, and there's no guarantee the sale will close. it's one of the few industries where people work for free.

how many people go to work NOT expecting to be paid for their time and expertise, at least some of the time? not many.

And this is the only business where your clients want to reward you for doing a good job (bringing a willing and able buyer) with cutting your pay.

Imagine if you went to your 9-5 job after doing awesome work and your boss says "You are terrific! You got your work done quickly and efficiently! Therefore, you deserve less money because it's obviously not challenging enough for you."

*roll eyes*

Wow this thread has some mystery now since I'm reading this after Pete's links, names, were taken down. Then we have two new posters from New Jersey defending this agent and franchise. This is just getting me curious. However not curious enough to find Pete's yelp reviews and such. I'm just to lazy to go in search of those.

The internet has turned a lot of people in brave warriors slinging their arrows at everything they think is an indignity. The anonymity and proliferation of "bashing" websites turns normally even tempered people into self appointed crusaders for justice.
Then defenders of the other party to the dispute sign on so they can defend their side and the mudslinging begins.
Thanks for our moderators who look at these type of posts with an unbiased eye and calm down the rhetoric.

No, PA Roadkill, not rhetoric at all. Pete's postings are slander, plain & simple. Agent is working like a dog to sell the home. Agent has done nothing to deserve her reputation be destroyed online. Other folks stepped in to try & communicate the truth.

This turned out to be very interesting. I haven't checked in on this thread as I've been working with a more reputable Realtor in the event that my current deal falls apart.

NOW! First, let's address "Trying to Sell" -- You are more than welcome to put up my listing. And it is certainly NO secret who am since a simple WHOIS lookup would tell you who owns the domain! You can certainly post a link to the listing... keep in mind I'll then post a link to the comps that have sold and let others make up their own mind as to who is weak with respect to marketing! You can talk about the "offer" you brought me all you want -- it wasn't a real offer and it wasn't an offer for anything near a good price. PLUS they clearly weren't a buyer, since when I agreed to THEIR price - they still backed out. So stop counting chickens that haven't hatched. As an update, you brought me another offer -- which nets-to-me the same as the previous offer, and I took the offer because you were willing to trade the chance that you could close this one for me being able to get rid of your incompetent self! It is the ONLY reason I took the deal -- it's a win-win for me. You can deny that the internet sells house, and you can keep living in the stone age thinking that Open Houses are all that matters. The truth is, if you like on your listings and you market the property poorly, the quality of your "showings" and of you "offers" is going to follow same! Clearly you can't grasp it. Maybe you should take a look at what IS selling. AND THERE IS A LOT SELLING! Between 8 and 12 properties a WEEK are selling! And they are selling for near asking provided they are priced and marketed right. Mine is priced right -- so what doesn't fit? YOU.

On to "decentAmerican" -- you can threaten and lie all you want. My Relator didn't function in the way you say she did. She did the least possible. I NEVER SLANDERED her in the least. All I did was post my EXACT experiences with her and let other make up their own mind. EVERYTHING I said about my experiences with her has been 100% true. So, "decentAmerican" -- think it through and I see your thinly cloaked thread against me. You want to threaten me... go ahead - that's the difference between you and me. I speak the truth -- you threaten based on lies. Good Luck. And Good Luck getting the house sold. LOL.

--

NOW! On to a real update! The "agent" did in fact bring me another offer -- which is the same offer (net-to-me) as the previous one. This one is a dual agent deal so she is making more money on it. We did in fact reduce the commission from 5% to 3.5%-$700. She offered to lower it to 4% and we got it to where it is now. I'm satisfied with the additional money on her side since she did bring it together on both sides and should be compensated as such. The other part of the agreement is that I was able to get the expiration date of my contract changed!!!! From 11/23 to 8/15 -- SO! basically, I can move on to an agent that wants to properly market the property with the hopes of beating the Holidays!

I am feel blessed to have been able to create the site that allowed me to get to this point and free myself of these people if needed... but I feel worried at the same time! What would other people do? Think about it! They would be trapped with these people until right before the Holidays!!! Could you imagine? How stagnant the listing becomes?

When you look at my agent's office -- you'll start to notice that among comps -- they sell for the least amount. Wonder why that is? Just look -- I've taken a total of 6 sample neighborhoods... and you'll see properties that sell all for within 5-10% of each other... then you'll see one recent comp that sold for 15-20% less, then you look up who the listing agent was? Can you guess. Yup. You guessed it. My office. LOL

Anyway -- at the end of the day, it's a zero-sum game. The money I'll lose by taking this deal I'll spend on carrying the property while it's marketed properly and gain it back on that end. Hence why I'm doing what I'm doing.

Want to know more. Read the latest New Jersey Law Journal about Weichert! I'm not saying anything to slander them -- I'm just saying to do your homework about the office, agent, and company better than I did!

Thanks for reading,
Pete

P.S. Donna -- you (or your "friends") should really instruct people not to threaten me -- it isn't a very good idea -- and you should know that by now. I agreed with Joe to bury the hatchet -- I expect the same from you.

I'm rather enjoying this thread. From Pete, who I believe has some honest complaints, to the 2 brand new posters from New Jersey who I gather are the agent and maybe her broker. I was kinda bored this afternoon so I looked up Pete's rip off report, but was disappointed that he took his website site down. I guess things are going better now. I guess this just goes to show that we as agents need to do our best at every deal we get involved in and do what we promise. Or there will be a Pete that has the know how to go online and expose us for being a lousy agent. I might be a lousy agent with regard to prospecting to get business, but when I am involved in a deal or a listing, or have a buyer actively looking for properties I'm at their beck and call and do the best I can. Also if Pete's agent does truly believe the internet doesn't sell houses, but open houses do please get out of the year 1999 please and learn about real estate in 2011. When in reality in 2011 as in 1985 price is what sells.

it's not really a matter of being our best, because nobody is always at their peak. it's a matter of basic competence. and this is where a lot of agents fall down. as I said previously, the "prevailing mentality" in the industry and the way the industry is structured from the top down, promotes incompetence and unethical behavior.

and keep in mind that the real estate industry is highly regulated. even so, the ethical failures are widespread. imagine what the industry would be like without the regulation. it would be a complete mess, a feeding frenzy of sharks. a certain political party wants to roll back financial industry regulations? haven't we learned our lesson yet??

NeedsHelp learned that in this industry, honest sellers, buyers and agents need to have their guards up at all times. I've seen so much unethical behavior over the years, I could write volumes about it. the most important thing for a seller to know is that the seller EMPLOYS THE BROKER. the seller calls the shots, the broker OBEYS ALL LAWFUL INSTRUCTIONS FROM THE SELLER. don't let manipulative and unethical brokers and agents take advantage you, because you can bet that they will try to.

It's always someone else's fault.

Pete does not sound unreasonable to me. He appears to be a demanding seller. he is the seller, he employs the broker/agent, that is his prerogative. he wants competence and good offers. it's his prerogative to micro-manage the agent ahd her performance. if the agent is competent and aggressive, there should be no conflict. I have encountered unreasonable sellers in my day, and I dropped them quickly, I did not wait for them to fire me. they are not worth the headache.

That's what I don't understand about this thread from the point of the 2 posters from New Jersey. If Pete is insane and crazy why did they not just cancel the listing with him. Not fight him to keep on going like Pete says they did. I agree with you Shana that some sellers aren't worth the headache.

Many thanks guys. I've never denied that I'm demanding and that I expect the best. I don't think I was being unreasonable int he least, and have gotten much feedback that expressed the same. In fact, I made it VERY clear to the agent that once the listing was established all I wanted was some feedback from showings so I could tweak things, if needed. Well -- it never really got that far because I was constantly begging for the basics.

As to why they wouldn't let me go? I can answer that. It's a remodeled house in a starter community in a great part of town where houses, when priced right -- seldom stay on the market for 30 days... even in this market. Right now most of the inventory that is in my price range is either junk or in not desirable areas. She knew it would sell and didn't want to let go.

I'm sorry that I disappointed you by taking down the site -- but I made a deal and I'm going to live up to it, otherwise I'd be as bad as my agent -- saying things they didn't do. And I'm not going to get to that level.

I may have been painted as an "insane" or "crazy" person by some of the lazier folks here -- but I can assure you, I'm perfectly sane -- I simply hold people to high standard. If you tell me you can meet my standard, I expect you to. Especially when you're asking me for $20,000. ;)

Thanks again to all... and I'll keep you updated!

Pete

"but I can assure you, I'm perfectly sane."

I might have been moderately sane before I started working in real estate. now, I shudder to think about what an MMPI might reveal.

I don't get it. She is a "she-male?"

Thought a few updates were in order. Well -- this turned out badly in a sort of good way. Here's what happened.

First and "older" update:

The agent came to me with a deal from another buyer -- this time as a dual agent (she represents both the buyer and myself) - so she (and her broker) keep the entire commission. With that I was able to negotiate two key things.

First, I was able to renegotiate the expiration date of my listing agreement and had it changed to 8/15/2011 (thank goodness!). This way if the deal wasn't real or falls apart or whatever, I can get myself an agent that knows how to qualify buyers and take control of a situation in a good way and not in a way that harms the seller.

Second, I was able to renegotiate the commission down to a lower rate (this second deal is for a lower sale price, but the same net-to-me amount as a result of the commission concession).

Pretty much was a win-win for me. If she manages to close the deal, I sell the house. If she doesn't close the deal I can re-list it or pull it off the market and rent it. Like I said. Win-Win.

NOW! The most recent update:

The "new" buyer signed the original contract on 7/18/2011 I got it on the 20th and my attorney got his changes/notes made the same day. From there this thing bounced around and stalled out at the buyer's attorney for weeks. Blaming nonsense like "vacations" and such... Anyway... the agent pulled the house off the market and to date we STILL do not have a fully executed contract OR any money in my attorney's escrow account! My understanding is that the only money is $1000 in [the broker's] account (But I can't prove that). Anyway... after calls, emails, and faxes FROM ME to the BUYER'S ATTORNEY we basically got a "stall" letter that they want another 10 days or something to that effect.

My lawyer told me to call the agent/broker and get the house BACK on the market as this buyer is not a real buyer since there is no contract nor any earnest money in the escrow account. I read all this as stall-stall-stall.

So there you have it. I know it would sound like bad news to many, but in reality I'm happy that at worst, I got away from the grossly negligent agent and her team of fools.

I've requested a total of FOUR TIME for her to put the house back on the market OR provide me with a fully executed contract. She IGNORED ME ALL FOUR TIMES regarding this and believes she actually has a sale!

I really do believe that she things she does -- and in that respect, I feel bad for her. Yesterday she met with the buyer at the house along with a contractor to see about some of the minor issues in the inspection report. The agent also stated that in addition to her buyer paying for a full inspection report, he has also paid for the appraisal with the lender.

I guess, aside from any other comments you folks might have, I do have a question:

How many buyers would (supposedly) pay for a lender's appraisal without a fully executed contract in hand? Much less an inspection? Just wondering.

Thanks,
Pete

YOU would need to approve the dual agency (you are not obligated to do that). your agent CANNOT unilaterally take the home off the market. If there's no contract accepted by both you and buyer, there's nothing, no reason to take it off the market. If the agent has done that, she has breached the listing agreement. you need to assert your authority as the agent/broker's employer and possibly file a complaint with the local Assn. of Realtors. the agent's behavior is completely unacceptable and incompetent.

get hard copy documentation that the listing status is or was "off market."

I would also call the agent's broker and raise hell. the broker owns the listing, NOT the agent.

Most certainly an agent/broker can terminate a listing. I have done it when a seller was uncooperative with showings. I just give them written notice and withdraw it from the MLS and remove sign and LB.

How is this seller harmed by this action? Seller gets another agent. No harm no foul.

You know a listing agreement is a two way street. Both parties have obligations.

Most certainly an agent/broker can terminate a listing. I have done it when a seller was uncooperative with showings. I just give them written notice and withdraw it from the MLS and remove sign and LB.


that is not the case in this situation, and the broker does not want to terminate the listing. for a valid, active listing, an agent/broker cannot take the property off the market without the seller's approval. the seller is the employer, and the seller CALLS THE SHOTS. the agent has a fiduciary duty to follow all lawful instructions of the principal/seller.

In this case, the agent has taken the property off the market for a sale that does not exist. this is DEFINITELY harming the seller's interests, and a breach of the agent's duty to the seller.

I don't know about New Jersey, but in Vermont our standard REALTOR® Exclusive Right to Market CANNOT be unilaterally cancelled by the Agency UNLESS the Owner demands or insists that the Agency perform some illegal act in the marketing of the Property.

Otherwise, our Agreements cannot be cancelled or terminated unless BOTH the Listing Agency and the Seller mutually agree to such a termination or cancellation in writing.

And it would appear that this New Jersey relationship will be put to bed on August 15th, by mutual agreement . . . . and that will be that.

It's sad; but someone should have prevented the Buyer from spending money on any Building Inspection or Appraisal UNTIL such time that this Seller actually signs a Purchase & Sales Agreement, and I do not think that will be happening anytime soon . . . . a waste of both time, and now, money.

Here is wording from one of our area listing agreements. It is this to which I was referring.


Should Seller refuse to execute such purchase agreement, default in the performance of such purchase agreement, default under the terms and conditions of this Agreement or intentionally interfere with broker selling the Property, Seller shall be liable to Listing Firm and Selling Firm for the Brokerage Fee,

In my scenario the seller has been problematic and a hinderence to the listing.

I was not even talking about going after the commission, though that could be anoter discussion. I was just supporting an agent's right to terminate a listing if the seller is not playing nicely.

Doin' bpose - Could you put the full paragraph of that in - what you have posted is referring to "Should Seller refuse to execute such purchase agreement" - I'm wondering if the "such" is referring to something else in the listing agreement.

Up here in NOVA area, ours isn't strict like that at all.

No one can force a seller to sell their home - one can try to go after the commission if a ready, willing and able dude has presented an extremely wonderful offer that only an idiot would refuse.

If a Seller doesn't keep their home tidy and clean - is that intentional interference? If the danged dogs jump all over potential buyers all the time - is that intentional interference? Does that mean the Listing Firm has the right to the Brokerage Fee?

Here it is in full...

Default: Should Seller refuse to execute such purchase agreement, default in the performance of such purchase agreement, default under the terms and conditions of this Agreement or intentionally interfere with broker selling the Property, Seller shall be liable to Listing Firm and Selling Firm for the Brokerage Fee, as defined in paragraph 2 of the attached Broker agreement, as if the sale of the property had been consumated, and for any expenses, including reasonable attorney's fees, incurred by the listing firm and/or selling firm in connection with this agreement, the sale of the property, or with the enforcment here of.

I can see some portions of the above agreement that could be challenged in court. private agreements may have provisions that are unenforceable, unreasonable or excessive.

I'm a bit confused.

Doin', is this clause lifted from a Listing Ageement or a Purchase and Sales Agreement ?

It sounds like the cancellation of the Listing Agreement (by the Broker) is distinctly linked to the Sellers' performance or non-performance under a related P&S.

But this clause refers to "paragraph 2 of the attached Broker Agreement" as if that's something separate and apart from wherever this paragraph was lifted.

Seems a bit circular ?

I agree. It definitely sounds as though there are two documents in this bundle.

This is one the best threads ever...even if seller pete is bashing my brokerage...

I've always thought that it was unwise to say that "these people are all this" and " those people are all that"...

I take offense that the Pete wants people to believe that because I'm at "Firm W" that people should steer clear...what do I have in common with this lady from NJ? I'm in frigging Arkansas, hope my clients dont read that trash about my "company"

Pete - I agree with you, the pictures sound awful, the marketing text was bad. But I guarantee that this lady isnt selling real estate because she's a moron...if she's been doing this for 20 years, she can sell frigging houses

One last thing, If we don't do the open house, we're guaranteed to not meet a buyer there, if we do it, there is at least a slim chance. Kudos to her for working on a Sunday when she knew she was on the chopping block

By the way. I would have released you from the listing agreement a LONG time ago...just shows that not all "Brand W" agents are the same...I don't have time nor desire to spend the energy on someone who doesn't want me to work for them

I happen to think that Pete is completely justified in his discontent with the agent. this kind of behavior by an agent is not all that unusual in real estate sales. to withdraw a listed property from the MLS with no accepted purchase contract and without the seller's consent, is absolute incompetence. where do agents/brokers get the attitude that they can do such ridiculous things?

Friday she calls me and tells me to fill out the Certificate of Occupancy form and send a check for $100 for the town.

Mind you, she wants me to do this out of my own pocket and there is STILL NO FULLY EXECUTED CONTRACT!!! LOL. My lawyer told me not to dare waste a penny on ANYTHING until I have a fully executed contract.

I don't know what kind of a scam/game is being played here, but I'm curious to find out who is going to be culpable when all is said and done. Something smells very very rottten...

And no... after a total of NINE requests to put it back on the market, the property is STILL not back on the market.

Ready for the most insane part of it all???

The AGENT tells me that the only way she can put the house back on the market is if she gets a "kill letter" from BOTH my attorney and the seller's attorney. LOL. Really? The seller's attorney gets to decide if I can sell me house or not? Really? Without a contract?

Needless to say, I asked my attorney about it, and he was clear. The broker is in BREACH of his contract. But seeing how the listing expires in a week -- who cares. Let it ride until it expires and then go from there.

I just can't believe how unprofessional these people are. What do you fine folks think I'll do with that special domain name? LOL.

UNREAL! When I wanted them to market the property properly they wouldn't, and when I wanted them to put the property back on the market they wouldn't. The absolute worse of the worse.

Pete, just keep in mind that under general agency law, liability for the agent's improper or negligent actions can transfer to you as the principal, if another party is harmed. This brokerage is a circus...run from these clowns! LOL

We do have 2 docs for our listings with the REIN system. I am not really certain as to why. It came with the advent of limited service listings and was pitched as a protection for the full service broker agents.

I can post the referenced paragraph 2 in the attached brokerage agreement, however it is a reference to a explantaion of the brokerage fee and how it is to be dispursed. It is not really relevant to this discussion (I do not think).

No one has established what harm or damage has come to the seller if the listing agent yanks the listing when no offers suffer as a result. How is the seller damaged?

In a court of law doesn't there need to be some damage to make a case?

When I was a little kid I stepped up to the Asteroids machine and popped in a quarter. Before I could start the game an older kids took my place and handed me a quarter. I complained to my parents and they shrugged and said, "No big deal."

This is no big deal to me.

"This is no big deal to me."

sure, so the agent might as well do whatever he/she wants to do. this attitude is one of the big problems in this industry. agency law says an agent cannot do such things. It is a breach of duty.

It would be a big deal to you if you did such a thing, and you received a fine and suspension of your license by the state.

If your New Jersey property is in a Zoned Community, then the Certificate of Occupancy should have been obtained by you before entertaining the idea of selling it, renting it, or even living in it yourself. That's not a scam; that's just part of demonstrating that the property is habitable and in compliance with all local Zoning and Health Regulations. Without a COO, the property shouldn't be occupied by anyone.
But, aren't you the Seller? They wouldn't be talking about a "kill" letter unless they considered this current deal to be "alive".

It certainly sounds like you DID sign a P&S with the current Buyer and those Buyers are now busily involved in conducting the Building Inspection and Appraisal, while the Property is held in Escrow or a Pending/Contingent Status . . . . NOT off the market. The Property is not actively being marketed because it's under contract to be sold to these Buyers. It wouldn't be appropriate to now market it to another unsuspecting Buyer while it's already so encumbered, without telling them in advance that they would only be able to submit a back-up offer. You can only sell it to one Party.

Vermont, Sorry about that, it should have read "Buyer's Attorney" not seller. The agent is telling me that she has to get a "kill" letter from BOTH attorneys which is plain impossible since the Buyer's attorney has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING at this time since there is NO CONTRACT!

As far as your comment about showing/marketing the property because it is "Under Contract" -- I guess you didn't read my post well or perhaps you missed something. But in case you didn't.

I DO NOT HAVE A FULLY EXECUTED CONTRACT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

A property is NOT under contract until BOTH PARTIES HAVE A FULLY EXECUTED CONTRACT.

Is that clear enough? The role of the broker is to market and try the sell the property until he/she obtains a fully executed contract. Period. End of Story.

P.S. A Continued CO is issued upon transfer of occupancy. Nothing (at all) like what you said). ;)

let's be sure we're dealing with the facts. Pete, was there an offer (or counter-offer) that you accepted? how did the offer/negotiation process actually go?

My experience is that an offer has to be better than an "extremely wonderful offer that only an idiot would refuse"-- it has to be exactly what the seller offered. Or better. That would be full asking price and no contingencies whatsoever. Only then could an agent demand a commission from a difficult or balking seller. A seller who didn't cooperate with the process. The seller doesn't HAVE TO sell his home in conjunction with the actual listing agreement. But he may have to, if what he asked for was brought to him by his agent, pay a commission.

Secondarily, if the seller is uncooperative with the process or interferring with the broker doing what he was engaged to, the broker may repudiate the listing. The broker may not "abandon" the seller if the seller is in contract or in contract negotiations. But, if the seller is making it difficult and/or impossible for the broker to keep up his side of the agreement (sell the property), the broker can repudiate the listing.

I'm so glad attorneys aren't required for contract negotiations in VA. Did someone at the NJ Bar Association pay dearly for that to be required? Guaranteed income!

Wouldn't it be great if regulations had it that a real estate agent HAD to be used for every real estate transaction!

This is what I have been trying to say also. In addition I have added that there is no harm done to the seller, assuming no current offers or contracts.

OF COURSE the seller has suffered harm, if the property is withdrawn from the market by the listing broker without the seller's approval, or other valid purpose. And regardless of harm, the broker has breached his fiduciary duty to seller. It's quite obvious.

does anyone honestly think that by unilaterally withdrawing the property from the market, the listing broker is honoring his duty of diligence in marketing the property, per the listing agreement? OF COURSE NOT!

give me a break. any rookie agent should be very clear on this.

I think NJ is a "partial escrow" state. I take that to mean that, you can hire an attorney to do a) contract review/recommendations/negotiations, etc., per fee; and/or b) act as the closing attorney, OR you can use a title/escrow company for closing. I don't think there's any requirement that an atty be used.

I think there's an "attorney review" clause in the Purchase Contract that allows the parties so many days for an atty review. It "allows", but does not "require".

Any NJ agents/brokers feel free to chime in.

True. The seller can't prove any harm done (loss of a specific quantifiable sale) if the listing is "pending" or "under contract"; i.e., removed from the view of cobroking agents looking for active listings on MLS. But certainly doesn't preclude backup offers or sign calls. I wonder if the For Sale sign is still up? Did the OP say he took it down?

One could also say that even if it were "pending" on MLS, that many of the online IDX feeds would still show it as an active listing. And, that's where most buyers find properties. Possibly it may still be in print advertising which has a long life, too.

I have read multiple occurrences of your saying that you “have no contract” OR you have "NO FULLY EXECUTED CONTRACT"; but it always seems to be carefully worded or couched in words to indicate that you don’t physically have a copy of a contract . . . . so did you ever "sign" a Purchase and Sales Agreement with the Buyers who are now involved in performing the Building Inspection and getting the Appraisal done of your property ?

Did you ever put your "john henry" (not just initials) on any document entitled Contract Binder or Purchase and Sales Agreement ?

Given that you’re in Florida and the subject property is in New Jersey, could you have signed a P&S by FAX? and not kept a your own copy ?

Could it be that you signed a Contract by Email? And deleted the Email

Did you sign any kind of Contract for the sale of this property to these people, even if you subsequently changed your mind ?

We always warn people to not sign any "binding" agreement unless they fully understand what they're signing.

And, as a standard of practice, you should immediately receive a copy of any Contract that you sign, or related paperwork, or as soon as practical . . . . but not receiving a copy does not necessarily invalidate the Agreement.

Somehow, it appears that otherwise reasonable people have come to have an opinion different from yours, and the property is at least somewhat encumbered with a prior agreement involving you . . . . and that's why it's not actively being marketed.

If that's what constitutes the New Jersey "partial escrow" status that Due refers to above, then I'm glad we don't have such a thing here. It appears to be fertile ground for the kind of mis-understanding that you are experiencing.

But you do seem to be enjoying it . . . . so it can't be all bad ?

It sounds as if there is a contract. The key is that a lender ordered an appraisal per the OP. Lenders don't order appraisals unless there is a contract.

and lenders are always correct? LOL

have you forgotten about the mortgage meltdown?

These days lenders stall things because they don't have all the necessary paperwork. I highly doubt that they would order an appraisal without an exectued contract.

Folks,

I'm thinking that there is a reason why we use attorneys for transactions like this based on what I'm reading here.

Here is the situation:

An initial contract was signed by both parties with a 3 day review. The attorneys went back and forth agreeing and disagreeing with certain terms of the said contract. Buyer's attorney sent my attorney a "rider" to the contract with certain terms that were not acceptable and my attorney sent him a letter saying so.

The other attorney NEVER REPLIED. I then called the agent and said, "what's going on with your buyer?" (in so many words) (It's a dual agent deal, remember!)... the agent advised me that the buyer was fine with all the inspections and wished to proceed with the sale. The buyer's attorney would send a letter to my attorney saying same and the contract would be agreed on by all parties.

Well -- needless to say -- it never happened. There was no letter, no agreed upon binder, and as such, there is no fully executed contract.

If the buyer got a loan based on a contract it was based on one that was never out of attorney review (which is possible, but not smart to do).

At this point I have NO obligation to sell the property to the buyer.

On August 15th I can send a letter to the GSMLS (since the agent is likely to stall in removing the listing after the expiration date since that is their usual tactic) requesting it to removed so I can relist with a professional broker.

In other words... 4 more days and I can finally get the house on the market and show it to real buyers! :) :) :)

I guess the question those of us in non-attorney review states must ask is:

What is supposed to happen at the end of the 3 day attorney review period? Does it void the original agreement? Does the time clock on inspections and loan approval start when the final party signs the agreement or when the attorneys are finished up building billable hours?

These must have been listed in the original agreement.

since two attorneys are involved in this matter, we'll have to rely on their opinions. only an attorney (and the courts) can make judgements on legal questions, such as the validity of a contract.

On August 15th I can send a letter to the GSMLS (since the agent is likely to stall in removing the listing after the expiration date since that is their usual tactic) requesting it to removed so I can relist with a professional broker.


Pete, I would wait until after the official deadline your wonderful agent has to remove the listing from MLS. then, if your listing is still there, get a hardcopy dated printout of it from someone who has legit MLS access, and you will have documentation in hand that the old agent has violated the MLS rules.

and remember, the agent's broker is accountable for the agent's actions.

It's tough to do the forensics with only one reporting party. But it appears that most of the parties are operating under the belief that a contract exists.

We can assume that NJ purchase contracts are written by attys. We can assume that agents (unless they abuse the Add'l Terms/Conditions" section, don't have a whole lot of latitude for changes. What the atty negotiations were over, we do not know.

But, per report, it appears that there was an accepted offer, "'intial contract was signed'" with parties taking the resultant contract to their respective closing attys. Contracts can be perceived as "initial" (although that's not the best description) because all contracts can continue to be negotiated according to the terms specific to further negotiations as allowed. But signed, they are not "initial" (implying some impermanence or temporary status), per se. It is the basic agreement, the understanding between the parties, subject to other terms/conditions being met or unmet, or via written agreement between the parties. Unless possibly voided/vacated during the allowable 3-day atty review. NJ AGENTS are encouraged to chime in.

Although we do not know the timeframe, we have a report that lengthy "negotiations" went on between the parties, and we can assume lengthy negotiations extended past the 3-day allowable atty review, and we know that the contract was not cancelled or voided. At this point, with an accepted contact, we could assume that these were via addendum, each side agreeing to the modification(s) in writing.

Until buyer's atty sent a "rider" that seller did not like and rejected. An addendum that he did not sign. Further reports indicate that buyer, by his actions, and per report of the dual agent, decides to continue and go forward. He accepts the rejection of his last request via addendum and sticks with the contract as it is. It's my opinion that there is no requisite for him to withdraw his addendum or send a letter to the seller. His request via addendum or "rider", unsigned or unratified by the seller is moot as any change to the contract must be agreed to by both parties in writing. Absent that agreement the contract continues with the last addendum being the controlling instrument.

No legal advice given or implied. All persons are directed to consult an attorney for advice.

the seller's (Pete's) attorney should know very quickly if there was a valid purchase contract.

I want to update:

The deal is dead. I won't guess as to if it was ever a real deal or not. At this point, it doesn't matter. What I do need is help. I'm about to relist with a seemingly better broker and agent, however I need to protect myself the best I can.

Anyone who could give me some ideas on wordage to put in the listing agreement so I don't get fooled again would be VERY VERY appreciated!

I would greatly appreciate any help you could give me. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE email me at:

fixitpete@optonline.net

Thanks!

Pete

I thought you had the perfect brokerage to handle
your transaction so why would you be asking for verbiage?

Also, Your attorney should be able to offer assistance to CYA.

Take the time to read BEFORE signing this time.


Then you can avoid getting sick all over again!

[quote=SummersAtTheLake]I thought you had the perfect brokerage to handle
your transaction so why would you be asking for verbiage?

Also, Your attorney should be able to offer assistance to CYA.
[/quote]

I feel I have a better brokerage, but I also thought that the one I picked the first time was good too... so maybe I'm having a hard time trusting agents right now? Can you blame me?

I already am having my atty look at the agreement, but I thought maybe some of you pros would have some ideas based on what you've seen in the past.

Thanks,
Pete

just stay away from the sharks. a smaller brokerage with a good reputation might be a good choice. you might interview the agent and agent's broker before you sign. If the broker doesn't give you clear answers, pass on them.

I am almost set on a new office. I'm waiting for her to get a BPO (or something like it) and to give me feel for her thoughts on the property. I can tell you that WeichertSucks.com is back up and will remain up for a long long time to come.

I just need more time to work on it and make it easier to read and follow the chain of events.

There's lots more to it -- I'm curious to see where it goes . This is only the beginning for them. The harm they have caused me financially MUST be communicated to others. It is my duty as an American.

Thanks for the continued support!

Pete

My God! I can't believe this thread is still dragging.

"It is my duty as an American." Get a grip dude!!!

I believe that comment indicates an obvious flair for the dramatic.
However, you have every right to make it. A right that was guaranteed by others that did their duty as Americans in the true sense of the phrase. Guaranteed in Germany, the Pacific Islands, The frozen ground of Korea, the jungles of Vietnam, the deserts of Iraq, the mountains of Afganistan, on the stairwells of two towers and the Pentagon. And, yes first responders on the streets of our country every day.
THAT'S performing one's duty as an American.
Posting a blog and whining about a Real Estate Agent doesn't even make the list. It's more akin to a child throwing a tantrum. Perhaps Obama will bestow the metal of whining with the cry baby ribbon attached.

I've watched this little disertation unwind and more or less just enjoyed a chuckle. But " It is my duty as an American."

That's just a bit much Mr. heroic.

Thanks for the help Jack! I especially LOVED reading your reply recommending to a person to not pay their mortgage. You're a real winner. LOL.

My thoughts exactly. Sour grapes came to mind and how about getting a life?

“Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.” ~ Carl Gustav Jung

"Fighting 'round the world with OldPete". He holds forth on many other forums. Baiting and griping-fests. Pay him no mind-- this is his entertainment.