Hello all,
I am actually new to this forum and I hope I can have a good answer to my big question mark:
I have recently become an owner of a newly built house in GTA. This is a completely new house with a never lived in status.
The house is very much what we were looking for in terms of size and budget (short comings are there ofcourse, but it was a compromise!)
What happened is that, after we purchased the house and during our pre-delivery inspection, I had a little chat with our new neighbors. I noticed that this house has undergone a severe deficiency last year (while being on sale) during which the water pipes apparantly broke out resulting in a major flooding inside the house for a week and since nobody lived there... forcing the builder to literally re-built the entire interior "starting from the drywalls!!!"
This has been the major reason why this house has been the "last house sold on the block" with a neighborhood being already formed and all the blocks have been sold.

Now, although there are no sign of that accident anymore as everything has been fixed, however I am still not comfortable with this pitch for a brand new house and this issue...I'm a bit negative on the happenings now. Especially that during our pre-delivery inspection, the main toilet on the upper level did not drain water when being flushed!!! I also heard that the leakage started at the upper level...
My questions are now:
1- Since nobody informed us about this issue before our purchasing decision (my real estate agent was absolutely in no position to look that smart! and to find that out, neither the builder nor their realtor (they sold the house through an agent) did inform us about this issue. How serious is this? I know there is Tarion Warranty on the house, but knowing that there might be a fundamental issue on the house, doesn't justify my confidence with a Tarion W.
2- Whose responsibility was it to find this out, inform,...? My real estate agent, theirs or the builder directly? Did we officially have the right to know about this issue in advance?
3- What are the proper (even official) steps I can now trigger to safeguard this issue?
4- Should I write a letter to the builder and let them know that I know about this matter?

Any advice on how to proceed with this is greatly appreciated from the experts...
Thanks very much
Shaw

Hello all,
I am actually new to this forum and I hope I can have a good answer to my big question mark:
I have recently become an owner of a newly built house in GTA. This is a completely new house with a never lived in status.
The house is very much what we were looking for in terms of size and budget (short comings are there ofcourse, but it was a compromise!)
What happened is that, after we purchased the house and during our pre-delivery inspection, I had a little chat with our new neighbors. I noticed that this house has undergone a severe deficiency last year (while being on sale) during which the water pipes apparantly broke out resulting in a major flooding inside the house for a week and since nobody lived there... forcing the builder to literally re-built the entire interior "starting from the drywalls!!!"
This has been the major reason why the house has been the "last house sold on the block" with a neighborhood being already formed and all the blocks have been sold.

Now, although there are no sign of that accident anymore as everything has been fixed, however I am still not comfortable with this pitch for a brand new house and this issue...I'm a bit negative on the happenings now. Especially that during our pre-delivery inspection, the main toilet on the upper level did not drain water when being flushed!!! I also heard that the leakage started at the upper level...
My questions are now:
1- Since nobody informed us about this issue before our purchasing decision (my real estate agent was absolutely in no position to look that smart! and to find that out, neither the builder nor their realtor (they sold the house through an agent) did inform us about this issue. How serious is this? I know there is Tarion Warranty on the house, but knowing that there might be a fundamental issue on the house, doesn't justify my confidence with a Tarion W.
2- Whose responsibility was it to find this out, inform,...? My real estate agent, theirs or the builder directly? Did we officially have the right to know about this issue in advance?
3- What are the proper (even official) steps I can now trigger to safeguard this issue?
4- Should I write a letter to the builder and let them know that I know about this matter?

Any advice on how to proceed with this is greatly appreciated from the experts...
Thanks very much
Shaw

Hello all,
I am actually new to this forum and I hope I can have a good answer to my big question mark:
I have recently become an owner of a newly built house in GTA. This is a completely new house with a never lived in status.
The house is very much what we were looking for in terms of size and budget (short comings are there ofcourse, but it was a compromise!)
What happened is that, after we purchased the house and during our pre-delivery inspection, I had a little chat with our new neighbors. I noticed that this house has undergone a severe deficiency last year (while being on sale) during which the water pipes apparantly broke out resulting in a major flooding inside the house for a week and since nobody lived there... forcing the builder to literally re-built the entire interior "starting from the drywalls!!!"
This has been the major reason why this house has been the "last house sold on the block" with a neighborhood being already formed and all the blocks have been sold.

Now, although there are no sign of that accident anymore as everything has been fixed, however I am still not comfortable with this pitch for a brand new house and this issue...I'm a bit negative on the happenings now. Especially that during our pre-delivery inspection, the main toilet on the upper level did not drain water when being flushed!!! I also heard that the leakage started at the upper level...
My questions are now:
1- Since nobody informed us about this issue before our purchasing decision (my real estate agent was absolutely in no position to look that smart! and to find that out, neither the builder nor their realtor (they sold the house through an agent) did inform us about this issue. How serious is this? I know there is Tarion Warranty on the house, but knowing that there might be a fundamental issue on the house, doesn't justify my confidence with a Tarion W.
2- Whose responsibility was it to find this out, inform,...? My real estate agent, theirs or the builder directly? Did we officially have the right to know about this issue in advance?
3- What are the proper (even official) steps I can now trigger to safeguard this issue?
4- Should I write a letter to the builder and let them know that I know about this matter?

Any advice on how to proceed with this is greatly appreciated from the experts...
Thanks very much
Shaw

I don't speak Canadian; but wouldn't that be a "post" delivery inspection, if it was "after" your purchase. We always try to do a walk-thru just a few hours (or minutes) BEFORE the Closing. The Buyer has much more influence at that point.

I will defer to the Canadians on this Forum regarding your rights at this stage, and what your best course of action ought to be in Ontario.

In our state builders of resdiential new construction offer a home warranty for a limited time of course. Did you recieve a similar warranty?

wheras I'm not well versed in the laws of our northern neighbors, so I'll respond based on local knowledge. Silence isn't golden, it can cost the silent party much gold. In my area we're required to advise a buyer of "any information that would effect a buyer's decision to purchase". That he being said, my advice would be to schedule a free consultation with a local attorney and get their take on the situation.

Pipes burst, pipes get fixed.
What do you want to do? Buy the house or walk away?

You should consult a real estate attorney for the best advice on this issue. If this were CA, disclosure laws heavily favor buyers and you would likely be entitled to substantial recourse. Not being familiar with your state law, I can offer no objective opinion.

In any event, if you have not already done so, you should contact a qualified inspector in your area, and perhaps look into an indoor-air quality (IAQ) evaluation to determine current conditions.

(to Vermont):
Thanks for the note. It is called a "pre-delivery Inspection" during the walk-thru that is done a few days BEFORE the closing. So I don't know if this is a Canadian term or has anything to do with the "Canadian" language (I'd be more than happy to speak German, French, Dutch as well if needed ;-) ) ...
I think I was not clear on this point: I have already purchased the house and the closing is today. However, I have been informed about this incident AFTER I have purchased the house and nobody from the builder's side (or their agent) did inform us about that incident...
So who is to blame? Myself (for not having the 6th Sense), My real estate agent (was it her job to find this out), their real estate agent (to inform potential buyers about this issue before their purchasing decision), or the builder directly?

[quote=Doin' bpose]In our state builders of resdiential new construction offer a home warranty for a limited time of course. Did you recieve a similar warranty? [/quote]

Yes, by law we have a Tarion Warranty that covers 7 years structural.
But is that good enough reason to say that since there is a warranty on the house, the builder can sell you whatever house they want with whatever happened previously to the structure?

[quote=JackREO]wheras I'm not well versed in the laws of our northern neighbors, so I'll respond based on local knowledge. Silence isn't golden, it can cost the silent party much gold. In my area we're required to advise a buyer of "any information that would effect a buyer's decision to purchase". That he being said, my advice would be to schedule a free consultation with a local attorney and get their take on the situation.[/quote]
Jack, Would your statement still hold valid if the house is already purchased?

Yes it would hold valid. Let's suppose I knew of termite damage or that the basement flooded during rains. If I know of that, I MUST disclose it, even if you didn't ask. The short version here. If I were in front of a judge, I'd rather be in your shoes then the builder or builders agents shoes..

For Solid Advice, one of the best places to start would perhaps be the "Tarion Warranty Corporation" Website and formerly the Ontario Home Warranty Program and designed with the consumer in mind.

There is a wealth of information available at their website at
http://www.tarion.com/Pages/default.aspx

Bear in mind, that any claim must be made within Tarion's time requirements and like most claims there must be some form of evidence in support of a claim.

In support of a claim, one might consider obtaining a independent "inspection report" from a qualified inspector who has inspected the property.

IMPORTANT NOTICE: This information is provided as basic educational information by the author and is not a substitute for the advice of an expert and/or the advice of a Lawyer. There is NO representation as to legality, accuracy, correctness of the herein information and the reader is strongly urged to consult a lawyer in the relevant jurisdiction to ensure accuracy before acting on this information.

I think the confusion comes in because you folks consider the Sale to have been completed prior to Closing . . . . and we in the United States, generally, don't consider the actual Sale and Transfer of Title to be complete until the Closing actually occurs, when the settling of Accounts is performed.

Here, many Sales wither up and die on the day of Closing; and no record is ever made of someone having purchased or anyone ever having Sold. Buyers often balk, and walk, sometimes even getting up from the Closing Table and strutting out.

Another southerner here trying to dicipher what's going on. If there was a duty to disclose, I would think it was the builder's since he is the one who should have known about it - IF there was a duty to disclose. If the builder's agent knew about the damage, here in the U.S., she has a duty to disclose regardless of the owner's feelings about it.

A one-time flooding does not seem to constitute an on-going problem although I hope you are able to find out why the upper floor toilet would not flush. If the toilet plumbing was the initial culprit (guessing here), then one would hope the problem has been resolved. If the toilet continues to not flush, perhaps that was the problem and I'd have that builder over there ALL the time. [check moisture content behind the drywall, and good grief, sometimes contractors and subs put all kinds of stuff in toilets, behind walls, etc.]

This T.W. warranty - does it cover plumbing? If so, at least you're covered. But, IMO (humbly), I don't think there's a duty to disclose on a "supposedly" one-time problem that's been repaired to the extent that everything was torn down - especially if drywall and insulation were removed and replaced.

Seems to me in the U.S., if you have a one-time leak, but it's been repaired, it's not necessary to disclose. But, if that leak is constantly, continously leaking, regardless of how many repairs or replacements the owner has done, yeah, he better fess-up and disclose. That's a real issue.

Another thing in the U.S., at least what I've read many times - if it's something that would seriously affect the buyer's decision to purchase, then it's advised to disclose.