We have been looking for a house in our new city for almost a year. We are looking in an above-average (though not top) price bracket, and we have specific needs that are hard to meet in our desired area. Our agent sends us new listings through a computerized service & takes us to any that seem promising. He has shown us about 100 houses so far.

Recently we made a cash offer for over 98% of list on a property that had been on the market for six weeks. The listing agent immediately alerted others who had seen the property, and some of them then made offers. The sellers accepted an offer at full list without giving us the chance to rebid. Our offer was used to prod others, and we got nothing but heartburn and disappointment from that transaction.

In retrospect, our agent neither gave us good advice (e.g., make the offer for asking price) nor represented us well (he faxed in the offer). He did not advise us to send a cover letter with the offer, which we now see is a standard bit of advice. We are considering finding another buyer's agent.

We are hesitating because he has put in a lot of time so far showing us houses. However, we can't help feeling that his easygoing ways (which is why we like him) are working against us in a market that is heating up.

Would we be wrong to find another agent?

If he has to show you another 100 houses before you make another offer, he might be relieved if you hire someone else.

It sounds to me like the listing agent saw an opportunity to double-end the deal, and there isn't much you can do about that. You might drop a note to the sellers telling them you were willing to pay more. That might cause a little stress for the listing agent.

As for faxing the offer, often that is the instruction in the MLS for submitting offers. If you agent followed instructions, you can't fault him for that. And not advising you to offer list price would have made you happy if you got the house. The cover letter usually isn't that important unless you are in a multiple offer situation, and your agent didn't know that was the case.

I don't think he did anything wrong, and if he is still willing to work with you, why not keep working with him? Personally, I would have given up on you long ago.

It's really hard to say whether your agent is serving your needs adequately based on a single offer. I haven't seen any obvious mis-steps.

Had you put in a full-price offer, the listing agent could still have used that to prod others into an over-asking-price offer. That alone might not be reason to pin the blame on your agent. Really, the listing agent should be doing whatever he or she can--within legal and ethical limits--to bring in top dollar for the property.

If there weren't any other offers on the table when you submitted yours, it's hard to say whether 98% was too low. Real estate, no matter how educated you are in your market, still involves some degree of guess-work; even the best agent is not going to snag every deal. I've submitted offers OVER list price and still lost the deal (this just happened last month).

Is your agent derelict in his duties for faxing the offer in to the listing agent? Hard to say, but it's probably local market-driven. Around here, it's standard practice to submit your offers by fax or email. I do suggest that my buyers write a letter if they want, though I have to admit it isn't always helpful (especially for foreclosures).

Now...you'd fire him because he's easy-going? Geez. I make it a point to be very easy-going when I'm working with clients, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to keep their best interests in mind and that certainly doesn't mean I'm not going to play hardball when need be.

Aw c'mon! quit screwing around - homes are a bargain. You wouldn't drive across town to save 2% off a pair of shoes, would you? Would you really? 2%?

REO's are priced to sell, not priced to dick around with counteroffers going back and forth.

Bid high and bid often and buy your long-suffering Realtor a lobster dinner. 100 homes and none good enough and now your Realtor isn't good enough? I think the problem is you and your squirrel'y ways.

Thanks to all for the comments. Artiste, this was not an REO. Our agent thought that our offer was a good one. He's the expert on the local market -- not us.

Real estate here, though perhaps 10% to 15% lower than at its peak, hardly seems a bargain, considering the quality of most of what is being offered. Several agents confirm that owners of better properties are avoiding selling as long as they can, hoping for prices to rise.

We are fussy but not completely crazy; we've bought houses in other areas without needing this kind of extended search.

We'll keep the agent but make our offers more aggressive. Unlike other areas we've lived, sellers here seem to expect an offer at asking price.

I think your first post is amazingly unfair to your long-suffering agent.

Please demonstrate how presenting offers to the listing agent in person would have prevented the listing agent from doing what he did anyway - pull all the stops and notify all the others waiting in the wings?

Cover letters - my experience has been...the sellers say "That's nice but we're going with the better offer (better terms)."

Better offer does not necessarily mean better PRICE. It could be that they went with a cash deal. Or someone with a bigger downpayment, or someone willing to take the house with no inspections or other contingencies.

Or maybe they went with someone they KNEW (That happened to a friend of mine... and the agent whose buyers lost out blamed the listing agent for being shady in order to double-end the deal...but the fact is, the seller's friend wanted to buy the house and it wasn't until he almost lost it to another buyer that he made up his mind to buy it. The seller wanted to sell the house to his friend and his friend went with the listing agent instead of getting his own buyer's agent. Even though the OTHER buyers offered full price.

But, it really is much easier to just BLAME THE AGENT. We should be used to it now. :p

Your location says "Washington", do you live in Washington, DC, or Washington state?

If it is DC the market here is very different than other locations, even locations as few as 30-40 miles from here. Its crazy in some spots...dead in others. Crazy on one street, dead on another street. What was crazy last month...isn't crazy this month.

Its hard for an agent, we want to be laid back and not pressure our buyers, but a lot of times in this market...they need to be pressured. You might want to try giving your agent some feedback, let him know that if he feels like a specific property is going to be hot...he can tell you and not feel like he needs to hold back.

You have to realize that the listing agent represents the sellers, the first thing I do when I get an offer on a listing is call all the agents who have shown it recently and indicated interest and let them know I have an offer in an attempt to get multiple offers. I'm the seller's fiduciary agent...thats my job. Nothing the buyers agent can do about it. They can hem and haw about how the buyers will walk if they don't get a response in 12 hours...but in reality we've got the house and we've got the power in a strong market. If its a good house the buyers aren't going anywhere.

Now...the listing agent should not disclose the terms of your offer...and that very rarely happens IMHO.

Some things that I do to win in multiples:

1. Attach an escalation clause. An escalation clause will beat any offer above yours by a certain amount (the escalation factor) up to a cap. So lets say a house is listed for $500k and you want to protect yourself in case the other offers are lower, write maybe $490k with an escalator to $520k. Pick a big factor, it has to be big enough to make up for any plusses another offer might have over yours. Say in this scenario, $5k? Wanna be bold? $10k. So if your factor was $5k and the highest competing offer was $500k, you'd come in at $505k and win. They'll have to show you the front page of the competing contract.

2. You say that you were offering cash, include a printed statement of an account showing the cash as liquid and available. Redact the account numbers, etc, but print out a bank or brokerage statement showing the cash. Fill out a financial information disclosure and disclose your assets.

3. Make sure the offer is COMPLETE. When we have 5 offers, nothing gets an offer thrown out faster than if its missing a bunch of forms or signatures and isn't ratifiable.

4. Find out when an ideal settlement date is for the seller in advance...and offer to settle then.

5. Make the offer clean. We haven't had any issues getting home inspection contingencies through, but consider making your offer AS-IS and include only a walk-away home inspection period. Make the period short...that way the listing agent can get back to the other offers if you void. If its cash...consider waiving the appraisal contingency. Any other contingencies in the contract...make the periods short.

6. Don't go nuts. If the property is worth $500k...don't offer $600k with an appraisal contingency. The market is strong...but not crazy. Most escalations wind up at or slightly below list, even with several offers.

I think you should give your agent another shot, but have that conversation with him and maybe discuss the ideas I gave you above and implement them next time. The market can surprise even us...

Steve, thanks for the tips. I'd rather not name the location, but it's an urban area on the West coast. In our price range, the market here is suddenly heating up, with multiple cash offers on desirable properties. Good for agents and sellers; not so good for buyers.

Our cash offer included a statement from our financial brokerage, and the offer was complete. We'll certainly think about your items 1, 4, and 5 next time.

Regarding #1, have any of your contracts with an escalation clause closed at less than the maximum? I am wondering what keeps the seller from simply countering at the highest price.

Hey Perky, you're right -- it may not have been the price at all. Ours was a full cash offer, but they may have sold to a friend -- or a client of the listing agent. Hard to know.

Just a note on these personal letters that people put with offers, as a seller, I don't really care about a buyer or their family or their plans for the house or anything else personal, I care about the economics of the transaction, the contingencies and the realistic chance that it will actually close.

I have heard that the market out there is very strong...

You have to think about it this way though, its not that its "bad" for buyers. The market is improving overall, and thats good for buyers in the long term. Better than buying in say 2008 when the market was still falling. Sure it was a "buyers market", but it was a "buyers market" because it was a lousy time to buy. Now, its a good time to buy and the market is responding to that.



Buyers always throw out that objection. The question is whether escalation clauses are commonplace in your marketplace. Here they are.

What keeps the seller from countering at the highest price is fear of losing the buyer, and the fact that in order to utelize the escalator they need to show you the front page of the competing offer. No offer...no escalation and your offer is whatever the initial price was.

For the most part people are honest and aren't out to screw you, they want a fair price, but when they have 2-3 offers we always tell them "Look, this is what we have, the market has spoken. We need to pick the offer that has the best terms and price and work with that.

So...they can just counter, but I've never had that happen lets just put it that way.



Usually, but not always. I have had more than a few deals come my way because the sellers met the buyers and liked them. For instance I always love showing a hot home when the sellers are there because they meet the buyers, the buyers can ham it up to them, show them their cute kids. Then hopefully the agent will let me present it in person and they'll remember.

If not, then I always have the buyers make sure to introduce themselves by name a few times and hope that sticks.

For a lot of sellers its an emotional thing, this is their home and yeah they want the most money for it, but they also care about it going to someone they like, they worry about the well being of their neighbors and their community.

But, when it comes to letters I agree its worthless. We don't even show the sellers the letters.

sorry I missed the part that your offer was cash. But my point still stands - there are any number of reasons your offer was not accepted and it is just the way things happen.

How many other offers have you made . . . . and why didn't they pan out?

I have an elderly Couple who visits me every summer looking for their retirement home.

We look at a dozen or so homes each year; but I don't smell money. They actually made one (1) offer about 4 years ago . . . . now they're waiting until prices descend further. They've never been here during the winter. As they age, I know that they'd never be able to tolerate a harsh winter.

Their retirement will be over before they settle on a retirement home. They're fairly harmless, and looking at houses is now a routine part of their summer vacation ritual. This is what they like to do on their vacation. Nice people; but they'll NEVER live here.

I should send them packing . . . . but I don't. Maybe they'll fire me !! (like your Agent, I haven't been pushy enough); but more likely than not, this will just continue on until one year only one will come up . . . . and then none.

Summer Folks . . . . until the day they die.

They sound cute but silly. The last place I'd want to spend my old age is somewhere colder than PA. LOL

Your agent made no mistakes in his representation of you. The only mistake s/he made was staying at your party too long.

It's become their hobby at this point, dontcha agree? Not only would I quit them, I'd warn the other agents about these people.

Gosh, you took the words right out of my mouth! I was thinking that the OP had become a real estate "hobbyist"!

Similar to another poster here who,(admonished recently and took a powder) had become a "legal hobbyist".

But earlier you said:So, which was it? (98% or 100%)

"Perception is more important that reality" Albert Einstein

They're so close . . . . and yet one can appear to be quite reasonable while the other appears to be "nickel and diming".

and this part, where he admits there's multiple offers and cash is king so he's going to fire his agent and insinuate that the listing agent pulled a fast one on him.

You all have provided enormous assistance. This forum has been exceedingly helpful.

I am now looking for a local mortgage broker (Ft. Lauderdale area). As for another agent/broker; I’m undecided at this point. As an RN, if I was to abandon my patients, I would most likely lose my license and encounter legal prosecution. I don’t want to regurgitate over spoken axioms, but I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. Yes, a 35% referral fee should be criminal, yes she should not have abandon me.

Oh well, starting again from scratch and contacting other brokers/agents. Popular brokers in this area seem to be Exit Realty and Keyes Realty, as well as the nationwide firms. Perhaps I’ll go with the smaller mom and pop operations.

It is what it is (Oh, another axiom) (-:

I’ve learned plenty, should I consider changing careers? LOL (-:

Jimmy

As an RN do you treat your patients based on what you consider best for them (or, the doctor considers best), or based on what they tell you? If one day they tell you to give them demerol, an another day tell you that they don't want any medicine at all, will you get in trouble if you did what was best for them instead of listening to what they ask you to do?

Well last I knew, a person won't die if their real estate agent tells them to take a hike.

But I could be wrong about that. People are kinda odd.

Do you give your patients each 100 free treatments and only get paid if you heal them?

If so, would you "fire" a hypochondriac who demands 100 free, time-consuming treatments (and they won't ever heal cuz they're faking it?)

I think Artiste has been hanging around with the Human Beans too long !

Wow yet again validation for why I no longer do residential real estate. What a PITA!

100 houses?? Are you freaking kidding me ?? I would never show more than ten when I did do residential.I referred out the rest who were demanding.Time is money.

The bottom line is the buyer is moaning because they thought the market would free fall and instead it just dipped.NEWSFLASH:While the market is still depressed there are parts of the country that are starting to recover and did not dip much.

If you mess around and keep getting beat out by a few percentage points on your offers then the market will climb higher and higher and you will wish you bought now.

If the sellers can hold out with the quality properties to wait for market conditions to improve there is nothing you can do.

Brokers/agents please try to LIST property instead of a buyers agent.I hear so many horror stories like this from buyers agents. If you show 100 homes such as this agent and lose out on a commission you have to start the process all over again.

If I list the property and get 6 offers on it 1 will most likely be selected and I will be paid.Think about that for a second.

Some say"But I only have time if I am a buyer versus marketing costs for a listing".This isn't true as you have wear and tear on your vehicle,gas,intensive time taken away from other potential clients,limitations of income as you can manage multiple listings at once increasing income,etc.

Yeah I agree, this could be a post from "what drives agents crazy"...lets see 100 houses shown, a lowball offer, buyer doesn't get the house because there is a higher offer, and it is the buyer's broker's fault because he didn't put a cover letter on the faxed offer? And he is "laid back"...are you kidding me? Poor agent.

I had me one of them there PITA buyers. For several months, we'd go out maybe one day a week for a few hours. I always had it scheduled during the week so she'd have to take vacation leave - I wasn't wasting my weekends for this buyer. A good agent or broker gets a "sense" about these things (listen up Public). I had to endure her PITA conversations about every ache and pain she had, her wrecked marriage, her baby daughter (the kid was 20 yrs. old!), I listened to all kinds of crap. Almost every house was a fixer-upper (our area had a severe rain storm that knocked out power so all REO's were now in worse damage than before (flooding and mold) but she would dream of fixing it up - heck, she couldn't even lift a paint brush and SHE was going to fix it up?!! She was a constant worry-wort.

Listened to that whining (and believe me, I was being p-o-l-i--t-e) the whole time and I finally semi-snapped and she FINALLY wrote an offer...that was REJECTED. She drug me down that road of 100 homes or more (her price didn't allow for a nicer home) and cheap properties were getting snatched up quickly. You must know I am an honest person, sometimes too brutally honest. I do my share of "romancing" the client but 80% of me is facts and figures - no messing around.

She disappeared and I was thankful - although I did check tax records and she purchased about 6 weeks after our drifting. Am I glad she's gone? Yes. Could care less about the commission b/c I know she'd be calling me and whining again - she can do that to her new agent-for-life now - thank goodness.

[quote=Vermont]How many other offers have you made . . . . and why didn't they pan out?

I have an elderly Couple who visits me every summer looking for their retirement home.

We look at a dozen or so homes each year; but I don't smell money. They actually made one (1) offer about 4 years ago . . . . now they're waiting until prices descend further. They've never been here during the winter. As they age, I know that they'd never be able to tolerate a harsh winter.

Their retirement will be over before they settle on a retirement home. They're fairly harmless, and looking at houses is now a routine part of their summer vacation ritual. This is what they like to do on their vacation. Nice people; but they'll NEVER live here.

I should send them packing . . . . but I don't. [b]Maybe they'll fire me !![/b] (like your Agent, I haven't been pushy enough); but more likely than not, this will just continue on until one year only one will come up . . . . and then none.

Summer Folks . . . . until the day they die.[/quote]

Dale sounds like this couple brings something else to your life other than money.You probably do not want them to fire you and will miss them when they do not return.