Good points Brad. CC always refers to 'our mutual client'. Not really, me thinks. Also, I think this suggests the important idea that banks could return to the day where they work directly with the agent without the mill. Not in every case, but think of it a moment. They could save money by cutting out the middle man. There are enough data, training, certifications out there to have the banks be assured they get the consistancy they need in a product by choosing seasoned brokers. I am just thinking out of the box a little, but crazier things have happened.



By being a direct client of the bank is solves alot of the messy talk going around about the appropriateness of BPOs or BPOs for fees. I am not validating any of that talk. But if I am a broker and I have a direct client who is a bank I can do BPOs all day long for whatever pay we agree to.

So I understand a little bit of where you are coming from. It's the mindset really. See for me it's a little different. I am not a company employee. I am an independant QC'r/Value Analyst and I work for several companies. For my world the Agent and the Mill and the Client are all my clients. I don't get paid if agents don't do BPO's. I don't get paid if clients don't place orders for BPO's and I don't get paid if I make the mill unhappy and they don't use me to do their work.

I don't get paid if I send your order back to you because it fails a client guideline until it gets fixed. If I do send it through even though it fails that guideline, the client can request I don't work for them anymore. I don't get the opportunity to have my orders that I QC check sent back to me so I can correct it. It is an automatic black mark against me with no chance at redemption. If an order can't be fixed, I lose the work I put into it because it gets cancelled same as the agent and the mill. It's in my best interest for you all to have happy cookie cutter orders. But that's not going to happen.

I try to treat every agent as my client, same respect level is required as I give the mill or the mills client because I depend on you to do the BPO so that I have work. I'm a strong believer that it should be a symbiotic relationship between all parties however I still acknowledge that at the end of the day, the money flows down starting at the Mills client and they get to set what they require for their orders. Nothing I can do about that.

Do I wish I could just sit back and say every agent is going to give me a quality review and so I can just take it as it is? Hell ya. Is it a reality...not so much. Agents are human, there are mistakes that are going to be made just like I make mistakes and it's my job to catch those. So yeah, I have to ask about proximity...not because I don't *want* to believe you that there isn't any better comps but because I've found that 5 out of 10 times when the proximity is wrong, the agent pulls a comp that says it's in radius according to their MLS but in reality, it's not (This is in no way the agents fault if it's listed wrong but it still needs to be fixed).

Regarding the reason that banks don't send orders directly to agents... same reason that wachovia got in trouble regarding having specific appraisers they used. It's easier to maintain the stance that it's an unbiased opinion when using a 3rd party. More of a paper trail to follow that there was no set value given as Mills don't have access to what value the loan is at.


J~

From my stance, that makes you atypical from many in the BPO review department. Excuse my ignorance, but since I don't know who you work for I cannot comment on your obligations. I know at one time you worked for MSV. Whatever the case may be it is from my experience from the mills I work for, that they are W-9 employees of a mill that are being used to outsource BPOs on properties that lenders have an interest in. Thus that QCer will have an allegiance to the lender initially due to my reasoning already recently explained in this thread. My only experience with independent contractor QCers is via PT who uses appraisers in that local market to review their BPOs. Therefore correct me if I am mistaken, but my hunch is if you are an independent contracting BPO QCer, then you are also a licensed appraiser in the state(s) you are reviewing BPOs.



You lost me completely. Again I feel this is a real difference between a Realtor who has a different interpretation of the word client, and one from the outside. I won't chime in anymore on this topic and let others have their say.

I consider clients as regular customers that indicates a level of trust is involved. For example my massage therapist would have clients, not customers but the to the girl that bagged my groceries last friday, she will probably never see me again and so would only consider me a customer and would never be required to have a level of trust with me regarding what my purchases were.

As an agent you are given a certain level of trust by the mill and their client. You are trusted to inspect a home with it being vacant and not damage the property, you are trusted to turn in a report with an unbiased value and you are trusted that if you have an interest in the property you would turn down the assignment. The level of trust is what I believe defines the difference between client and customer.

Likewise, you are my client as an agent. It should be the same for any QC'r working directly at a company as they have access to sensitive information about you.

but that is my 2 cents...

J~

J - I DO read the comments, and here is why. In my area, MOST properties have unwarranted living space, and actual rm/bd/ba count and GLA often varies from what is shown on the tax record. Of course, 3 additional bedrooms make a difference. Most agents just place in theMLS grid what IS SHOWN on THE tax record (for liability). They then place comments on the additional space in the remarks section. I do not give full value for the extra space, but if the subject has unwarranted space, I find comps that do as well and make a note of this.

Also, my area has heavy rent control laws, and rented properties often sell for much less than those sold vacant. Occupancy is often not mentioned anywhere other than the 'agent only' comments. Sometimes an agent will mention if a tenant has been refusing access or pays lower than market rent. This could explain a high DOM or lower than avg list/sold price.

As pointed out above, we don't know who J works for, but we do know that J's opinions and experience are limited to a few mills.
Heck, we have one that insists that all comps be within a mile, even if none of the comps really reflect the same characteristics as the subject property, They want us to adjust the comps, not on a grid, but in the comments section.

So, for example, if the subject is a 1600 sf ranch, it's okay to use 2200 sf 2 storys for all of the comps and then adjust the comp. So now it's become a subjective adjustment based on the agents interpretation of how much to use for sf, extra bathroom, garage versus no garage, etc.

Most agents try to provide a true picture of the market based on comparable properties but in this case, it seems like the mill's client is trying to steer the value into some little box that they would have difficulty defending if push came to shove.

Sounds like AV&M !

They had me include 100 year old 1000 SF Capes to comp against a new 3000 Modular BECAUSE they were in the same neighborhood. And I adjusted within the Comments.

Moving back to QC "requirements". Some time ago, the last mill straw for me was when the resident "appraiser" put a choke hold on a BPO of mine. I'd heard that this individual was a problem. I couldn't get close to the subj on a drive-by. I could take pictures long-range. Fairly new build. I priced it out nicely, even though most of the BPO requests I'd get from this company were difficult-- and even they admitted that. I took the order nonetheless.

The appraiser wrote to me and said my pricing was too high because... from the pictures he thought that the siding was "cheap". How he could tell from a long range shot is beyond me. Additionally, he said he just didn't like the green metal roof, thought it was ugly. Green, red, brown metal roofs are common in our area, and actually ADD value over shingle. I was told to adjust pricing downwards. Sorry, I wouldn't do it for those "reasons". Needless to say, I didn't get paid for the BPO, and that was it for that particular mill. I'd tried with them, but the outcome was always the same. They were "shooting values".

I just got a hit from QC........wanted to know how I knew I had the right property......property is rural and posted "No Trespassing"......see pictures....subject is on 40 acres...wanted me to give a break down of lot value adjustment. There's no room in their comment section to comply. I had already shown the dollar factors for each type of adjustment. I emailed her back......."Subtract the little number from the big number ......then, multiple by $5,800 (per acre). That should give you the number you're seeking". Somehow, I don't think I'm done with this one....

This must be one of those "Cracker Jack" Qc'ers I've been reading about in forum. Apparently, this one lacks basic math skills.

Update: Every dog has his day........QC still being a pain. I asked, "Is there a prior on this?" She replies, "Yes". I reply, "Is it 8 months old?" She says, "Yes". I replied, "Take a look at the name of the person that completed the prior. I believe you'll find I was the one that completed that order. Do you have any more requests?".........end of discussion......order passed QC.

Which brings us back to one of the options that we have.

Candy-- If they can't push a button and get the answer, their circuits misfire and they start walking in circles, bumping into walls and talking gibberish.

I wish King would find a graphic of a robot malfunctioning for us! "Cannot compute.. cannot compute..."

DD

Not all QC are bad. This one was just a pita and I just gave her enough rope to hang herself. I would have liked to have seen the look on her face when she realized I'd done the prior.

I hate to say this, but, we need QC. None of us are perfect and we can make mistakes. I just have problems with the ones that think they can't. Most of them are working off a cheat sheet. I'm working off of experience.....There is a big difference.

I had one with a similar scenario. I did an exterior BPO on a property a while ago when it was in good condition (it was on MLS, occupied, and interior pictures looked good. I did an interior on the same property several months later, but this time it was a fixer, unlivable condition, since cabinets, counters, fixtures, doorknobs, electrical were all removed. I even explained this in the comments section as well as included the previous MLS showing the difference in condition. The QC'er said that there was a prior BPO with a very different value. I already knew what the value was on the prior BPO, so I didn't even need to do any back and forth and merely stated how the property now is in unlivable condition and a few months earlier it was in good condition.

The QC people don't really read the reports, do they?

Please upload a photo showing you taking the photo of subject property. Please include both yourself and subject in photo so that we know that you actually took the subject photos.

QCer's name was April Fool.

THAT is so dang funny!

But yesterday I was following occupancy check requirements and there was a photo example of what a date-stamped picture of the KYO letter affixed to the door should look like. The picture was of a woman's hand holding the corner of the paperwork. Nice manicure! So, that being the case, I took a partner with me so I could hold the paperwork while he took the photo! My fingernails were waaaaaaay nicer!