Received this in an email yesterday.

http://www.bridgesit.com/wilkinson/newsletters/Broker-Price-Opinion.pdf

Absolutely speechless.

With respect, the title of this thread is incorrect.

NC has limited the scope of for-fee BPOs (CMAs) to only those the broker can be reasonably assured that a listing will result. What they're saying is that there must be a "relationship" or potential "brokerage agreement" in the offing similar to those for which brokers provide CMAs for potential listing clients.

So, apparently doing BPOs for the "mills" will not be possible in NC because there is no relationship with a potential listing client.

There also appears to be some state enforcement arm if BPOs are performed in violation of the guidelines.

That is horrible, Dont recall anyone pointing fingers at Realtors and BPO agents, sure do remember alot of finger pointing at appraisers and have personally had people at my office investigating previous appraisers who used fake comps. Maybe next Obama will stop REO's and just let the defaulters have there house free and clear...... Sorry had to vent..... There is good appraisers as well....... Just saying thoe....

How is this Obama's fault? It seems clear that its Bush's fault. Bush was the President. He ended as an unpopular President. Some how the dots can be connected.

I totally agree, how is this political? Now, back to topic.......

With all the restrictions of BPOs occurring recently in various states, I have a feeling there will come a day where we will give the mills all the information they want and we leave the value figure blank. In a well explained and commented "report", they can derive the concluding figure themselves.

No determined value given by an agent, no "crime" committed.

PS. I searched Chapter 93 of the NCGS, and nothing is mentioned of this. Is this a proposal by the North Carolina Appraisal Board?? See link below and correct me if I missed something.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/gascripts/Statutes/StatutesTOC.pl?Chapter=0093E

I don't care WHO the president is just give me my house for free and all will be forgiven..................

Brad, I did what you did and couldn't find it either. But I read a bulletin by the NC real estate commission, an.d the big issue is the word "value". In NC, licensed appraisers are the only ones who are allowed to compare recently sold properties to give a "value". Licensed brokers are only allowed to offer a suggested "price"

Apparently this is a law. Google the NC Appraisers Act. D--- NC appraisers are giddy as hell.

This has been the case for many years, as I understand it.

We need Big Toe or Pine to chime in on this one.

Brad, I never thought of that as a possiblity, but it seems like a good idea. The banks can just have their analysts review the BPO's and make the call.

Right--there will always be ways around any law restricting BPOs. Can't give a value? Fine, here's a suggested price. Can't do that? Well, here's the data and you can decide. BPOs/CMAs can never be completely abolished because they're needed for our job. Banks, lenders, whoever will always try to get around BPO laws. The reason is simple--pricing. Appraisers are simply too expensive to use all of the time. Also, good luck defining "reasonable expectations" in terms of the expectation of a listing.

The BPO industry is washed up and has seen better days. It is over saturated and little or no work to go around. A few may make a living at it, but steady pay and the flow has been waning for a couple years now. Once you start seeing companies asking for money to register, join, sign up, get more work, become preferred etc, that is a sign that the ride is over. And now the laws are taking effect. If other states follow suit en mass, its all over.

This is the case in PA - has been for several years to my knowledge. Of course some agents were doing them but my broker and several brokers I know do not allow their agents to do them except for in the case of getting a listing.

I fail to see how it's any President's fault -I'd look more to the state real estate commission first.

I respectfully disagree.........On just about any given month, I can complete 100 orders. It has always been my option. If I want to complete 20, I do 20.....If I want a 100, I just pull myself off of vacation, and here they come. I don't need to work for "the pay to play" companies. And, to top it off, there are new companies starting up just about every month....it's doubtful if they'll make as they're late getting into the game. The "discount dogs" I believe are on their way out. The banks were slow to learn the lesson of "you get what you pay for".

As for any new laws, it's not that hard to legally circumvent them. Change a few words, use the term suggested price and not final value.......

I have to be honest and say it's easy for me to make these statements, as my service area is in the "hotbed of foreclosures". Something else to consider is when the market returns to norm. I predict that at least 80% of those that are currently completing orders will return to "traditional sales"........there goes your competition. And with no competition, you should see an increase in fees for orders.....just basic math.

As for new business, we're just starting to see the "walkaways". More and more owners are beginning to realize that they're so far under water, it's going to take at least 10 to 12 years just to break even.....and they'll just walk away.

Just me two cents, but I'm at the other end of the table on this issue. I only have one competitor in this business, and that's myself. As the market changes, you change with it.

I have to agree with Candyman. I've only been doing this exclusively for five years, but I'm making a steady living at it. The only thing I've paid for, was to become a NABPOP member. I'm not in what is considered a "hotbed of foreclosures", but there seems to be plenty of work to go around. I doubt I'm the only agent in Houston who is busy.

I do see the industry changing, but I also foresee the mills changing with it. I can't see them just tucking their tails in between their legs and slinking away.

I agree 100%. What would the typical R.E. agent rather pursue, a $6,000 commission check or a $50 BPO? Given the nature of the human race (i.e. greed), they'll be back chasing the commission check. I'll be happy with the BPOs or maybe the "neighborhood data reports" (NDRs) or whatever they will be calling them at that time.

On another note, future reports where we do not give an actual value might have less QC issues. Maybe in the end that would be a good thing for us, even at slightly reduced pay with decreased liability. So bring on the NDRs IMO.

just this week a "new company" hit on me...they wanted listing history of subject...and 4 lists and 4 sold...no driveby...all within 4 hours...after acceptance...I thought ...OK...with the price of gas...this is not so bad...I called to chat with someone about fulfilling the request....I got the strangest feeling it was to provide data for a apprasial....ps....Im all for providing data with no "value" let someone else pin the tail on the donkey....

Did you tell your husband that you had somebody hittin' on you?
I had to laugh when I read that. My first thought was, "that has to be one friendly company".......lol.

From my perspective, I really don't see BPO's or CMA's or 'NDR's' going away anytime soon. Clients believe that one of the biggest mistakes they made was treating an appraisal like gold. It's like taking your car to one mechanic and saying tell me how much its going to cost me and never getting another opinion. It's become more of a standard to order BPO's to back up every appraisal to make sure the figures add up before lending money on a property. This is as it should be to prevent some of the fraud that was happening in the industries with flipped properties. While you can't/shouldn't lend on just a BPO, you shouldn't lend without due diligence and that is something a BPO can provide when done by an agent that is familar with the location and can give you perspective. There is no other product out there I know of that can give you the insight that you agents can. If the crash of the market taught us anything, it should have been this.

Also, I would like to add that when in doubt, remember that the federal goverment themselves rely on BPO's. Years of processing goverment requested FEMA BPO's showed me this. Hurricanes, oil spills and wildfires... I spent 2 years dealing with BPO's from the fallout of Katrina where the goverments idea of an address verification was the homeowner pointing at their house that had been washed away and now resided 3 streets down on it's side. And those were done so the goverment could write out a check to the homeowners for the replacement value of their property that wasn't covered by insurance.

Point being, they aren't going anywhere IMHO.

J~

That probably depends on market conditions. I won't touch a listing because they aren't worth the hassle in my market. You would need to be one of the heavy hitters in my market to net $6k in one transaction on a regular basis.

On the flip side, 50k of BPO money every year buys me a couple of 20% CAP rate rentals. I can outsource or automate 95% of the process, complete reports naked in my home office, provide a steady stream of income to the "work-from-home" support staff, and still clear $80-$100 per hour as a side job.

Unfortunately I must agree with the person who said that it's a dying industry, and that's probably a good thing. Just read the comments on this message board about lousy reports, poor comps, and unresponsive QC support. The "mills" driving the BPO industry are just as lackluster as the agents providing the product. We're only one or two degrees of separation from a quality AVM. The technology to deliver an "as-is" value is constantly evolving. Something as abstract as an ontology could eliminate the need for BPO's.

Hopefully I'm wrong in all regards, but the supposed complexities of an as-is value aren't very complex. In fact, it's pretty damn simple. A mentally unstable lemur on Ritalin could probably provide a value that meets QC requirements. And they'd probably do it for a carrot and side of chicory.

Ryan

I have to agree with your statement about "lackluster mills". There is one out there that doesn't fit that profile (in my opinion). Their QC department runs 7 days a week, when you call you speak to a live person that actually speaks english, and they're not working off a cheat sheet. Christmas week of last year, I was given the opportunity to pay them a visit. They have a very impressive operation. I didn't get the typical "dog and pony show". I saw the real "meat and potato's" part of their operation. Trust me, I'm not easy to impress. When the tour was done and I was standing outside their building, I got this overwhelming feeling of "this is where I want to be.....this is where I belong". Had I'd been 20 years younger, I'd have been camped at their front door with resume in hand.

I get a big laugh when I see a headline like the subject line of this thread. It sounds like NC's rule of law (or proposed law) is similar to PA's. The PA ruling never mentions the term BPO, but instead talks about performing valuations for a fee for lending purposes. There is even a statement that should be included in the comments section that is basically a disclaimer.

As far as the comments that NC will somehow have enforcement police running around looking for people completing BPO's, unless NC somehow has a flow of money that most states don't enjoy, the investigators are busy just following up on complaints filed by citizens against licensees and probably have seen their budgets cut in the past few years. They are fortunate to get to these more serious matters.

I see a lot of brokers take the approach that Perky's has taken, and that is their choice and right as Broker of Record. In a large operation where there might be several agents that want to complete BPO's with their varying range of experience, the broker is simply reducing risk. But in a small operation that focuses on REO, it can easily be controlled, monitored and useful.

Spare us all.............it is NOT one specific person's fault. And.....if you really want to get into it, Clinton was the one who originally started the loosening of federal regulations regarding lenders. But...it isn't his fault either, no matter how much I wish I could say it was. It was a compilation of many.

Posted in error.....bummer

Candyman; Not directed at you.
What's new and different about this ruling. BPOs have always been legit for the purpose of seeking listings. Appraisals are for loan origination and similar. BPOs determine probable sale price and appraisals state value. This issue is coming up due to the number of agents performing BPOs for loan origination, MI removal, and other areas they're not licensed to work in. I believe this issue is coming to the forefront now due to the number of unqualified agents entering the field over the last few years. Now before everyone defends their ability consider some of the questions we've read on this very forum...are baths included in room count???, how much do I adjust for a bedroom, for GLA, for a garage? And I could go on and on. Some of the answer are so very basic as to indicate a complete and total lack of understanding of the process. How much for a garage??? It might make a difference if that garage is related to a 10000 shack as opposed to a 1 million mansion. Basic, basic, basic and I know I'm not the only one that rolls their eyes at some of this. I realize we all had to learn and that takes time. Many learned via mentors and some just paid $300 for a designation. The mills pay peanuts, and they getting monkeys, thus the industry is being watched. The many are paying for the sins of the few. Again, no need for all to defend their talent. I read this board enough to differentiate between those that know the business and those that recently mastered how to spell BPO. Ultimately the industry is being policed because it lacks the ability to police itself. And it's not just the agents. There are some and let me restate SOME bpo mills that suck so bad they could create a vortex. Some QC folks that are barely literate, and some lenders that are so more concerned with price then quality. Again...read the word SOME, not all. BPOs vs appraisals were not an issue 6-7 years ago. Those on both sides of the fence had a level of respect for each other and further enough respect to stay out of the other sides area of expertise. These type of rulings lay out the obvious.....keep stupid people away from performing important tasks. To the benefit of some...and again I say SOME...this will purge the gumby's from our ranks the same as the market crash purged the ranks of conventional RE sales force. To quote Ross Perot; If you see a snake just kill it...don't appoint a committee on snakes.

This law is nothing new. In the 20 plus years I have been doing this, getting paid for providing property values has never been allowed, by law, unless you were trying to get a listing.

Once nar gets your MLS to give them the sold data for the 'realtor property resource' then nar can sell it to the banks and the banks/ams won't need agents or appraisers to do BPOs. Know your enemy.

Thanks BigToe, that is what I thought, sitting up here north of your border.