WE HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT SOME PROPERTY FOR ABOUT 3 MONTHS.WE MADE A BID FOR $69000 ON PROPERTY THAT LISTED FOR $89900.THEY REJECTED.LATER WE OFFERED $80000 FOR THE PROPERTY AND AN ADJACENT LOT THEY OWNED.WE RECIEVED A COUNTER OF $85000.MEANWHILE WE HAD OUR HOME FOR SALE AND FEELING LIKE WE WOULD WORK THIS DEAL EVEN IF WE HAD TO GO $85000 WE SOLD OUR HOME.WE COUNTERED AT $82000 AND IT WAS REJECTED.SO WE AGREED TO TAKE THE COUNTER OF $85000.THEN LO AND BEHOLD THAT OFFER WAS REJECTED AND THE OWNERS SAID THEY WERE SIGNING A LEASE AGREEMENT.WE THEN OFFERED FULL LIST OF $89900 WITHOUT THE EXTRA LOT AND IT WAS REJECTED.THIS OFFER WAS MADE BEFORE THE LEASE WAS SIGNED.THE HOUSE IS STILL LISTED AS BEING FOR SALE INCLUDING SIGN IN THE YARD AND BEING LISTED ON REALORS .COM. THE ADDRESS IS 206 FLOWERS IN KENTON TENNESSEE.

Do you think your initial offer that was over 20% less than the list price might have annoyed the sellers just a little???
;-)

If you were working with a local Realtor they could have advised you what the local sales price to list price ratio was in that area and you could have made your offer appropriately.

I very much doubt it was 80%.

Sometimes when you put a bad taste in someone's mouth it's very hard to remove it.

You made the decision to sell your house; if selling yours would leave you without a home you have made your sale contingent on the sale and closing of the house you wanted to buy.

It is a common practice in my area to leave a listing on the MLS (and Realtor.com) as active until routine contingencies from buyers are removed such as home inspections and financing.

Realtors calling to set up a showing for this type of properties are told that a sale is pending subject to satisfactory resolution of contingencies.

My recommendation would be to forget about this house and move on.


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Jim Lee, CRS, ABR, GRI, e-PRO
Realty Executives Associates
Knoxville, Tennessee
http://www.KnoxvilleMLS.com
Jim@KnoxvilleMLS.com
1999 REALTOR of the year, Knoxville Association of REALTORS

I am not an attorney and am not giving you any legal advice. This response is only given for information purposes and should not be construed or substituted for legal advice.

Any counter offer kills the existing offer. If the counter offer is rejected you can not unilaterally "accept" the original / last offer with out the full agreement of the seller, which in your case he did not do.

From what you have indicated, your agent only followed your instructions and you lost your opportunity to buy the house.

It appears you "called their baby ugly" with your initial offer... often owners will get offended at that, and if the agent can't defuse the ill will generated, potential deals can and do fall apart. I try to get both buyer ans seller to consider the sale of a property to be a business deal not a personal deal.... but owners do get attached and don't want people who do not appreciate their "home" to live in it.

However the bottom line is you caused the end results yourself by your own actions.

You do need to learn from it and move on.

I AM BASING MY INITIAL OFFERS ON REAL ESTATE THAT CAN BE COMPARED TO RECENT SALES IN THE SPECIFIC AREA.I ALSO CONSIDER WHAT AN OWNER PAID FOR THEIR PROPERTY INITIALLY.HOW LONG THEY HAVE HAD THE PROPERTY AND CONSIDER ANY IMPROVEMENTS THAT THEY HAD MADE.IN THIS CASE THEY HAD PAID $65000 A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO.THEY WERE MAKING AN ATTEMPT TO RESTORE THIS HOME AND ACTUALLY HAD IT IN SHAMBLES.IN THE MEANTIME THE COUPLE DECIDED TO DIVORCE.I FELT APPROPRIATE IN OFFERING MORE THAN THEY PAID FOR PROPERTY THAT IS NOW ONLY PARTIALLY LIVABLE IN.THE HOUSE HAS 3400 SQUARE FEET.THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU FOR YOUR KIND INPUT.I WILL TAKE YOUR IDEAS AND GO WITH THEM.

IMO, what the sellers paid for the property is immaterial. Owners should not be penalized or regulated by buyers who feel sellers should only make x% on the sale of their property.

What counts is what the market is bearing now for comparable homes in the neighborhood, what are comparable properties listed at now, and what did they sell for recntly??

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http://realtor.wilkc.com
and
The Real Estate Forums

THE MOST RECENT SALE THAT I CAN FIND IN THE AREA WAS FOR $33,000.THE LISTINGS THAT I FIND ARE IN THE $30-$60,000 RANGE.
I HAVE LET THIS HOUSE GO AND I AM MOVING ON.I HAVE LEARNED SOME THINGS FROM THIS DEAL.BEAR IN MIND THAT THIS IS NOT THE FIRST HOUSE THAT I HAVE EVER BOUGHT.I HAVE BOUGHT 4 HOMES AND SOLD 4 HOMES.I HAVE ONLY USED A REALTOR TWICE WITH 2 SALES.I HAVE NEVER BOUGHT ANY PROPERTY THROUGH A REALTOR.
WHILE I AM A HOME OWNER AND NOT A REALTOR I FEEL REALLY GOOD ABOUT THE TRANSACTIONS THAT I HAVE HAD EXPERIENCE WITH UP UNTIL NOW.
AS A SIDENOTE WE FEEL THAT WE HAVE BEEN DISCRIMINATED AGAINST BUT THERE IS NO WAY TO PROVE IT.THAT IS THE ROOT CAUSE OF MY ANGER.

TO:FLORIDA ASSOCIATE
CAN YOU HONESTLY SHOW ME A MARKET THAT IS NOT DRIVEN BY CONSUMERS OTHER THAN NECESSARY ITEMS SUCH AS GASOLINE OR ELECTRICITY ? HOUSES FOR SALE ARE ON THE "MARKET" AREN'T THEY ?

Houses for sale are on the market for sale.

In real estate all it takes is a willing buyer and a willing seller.

One of those elements was missing in your transactions.

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Jim Lee, CRS, ABR, GRI, e-PRO
Realty Executives Associates
Knoxville, Tennessee
http://www.KnoxvilleMLS.com
Jim@KnoxvilleMLS.com
1999 REALTOR of the year, Knoxville Association of REALTORS

I am not an attorney and am not giving you any legal advice. This response is only given for information purposes and should not be construed or substituted for legal advice.

[This message has been edited by jimlee (edited 03-09-2004).]

I WOULD SAY THAT AN OFFER FOR FULL LIST PRICE IS A WILLING BUYER.MY CREDIT IS IMMACULATE AND I WOULD HAVE ONLY HAD A SMALL IN-HOUSE LOAN WITH NO OTHER DEBT.THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN A SHORT CLOSING.
ONCE AGAIN I SAY THAT IT WAS A CASE OF DISCRIMINATION.THE FIRST TIME THAT WE LOOKED AT THE PROPERTY THE OWNER WAS PRESENT AND REQUESTED THAT THE AGENT REMOVE THE REALTOR'S FOR SALE SIGN.
THE SIGN WAS REMOVED IN OUR PRESENCE.WE HAVE TWO SIMILAR EXPERIENCES.

If you were the ready, willing, and able buyer then the missing element was the willing seller.

TODAY MY WIFE AND I FOUND A WILLING AND ABLE SELLER.THEY HAD THE KIND OF HOUSE THAT WE WERE LOOKING FOR.THEY HAD IT PRICED AT $89500.WE OFFERED $85000.THEY COUNTERED AT $87000 AND I REQUESTED THE SELLER TO MEET ME IN THE MIDDLE AT $86000 AND HE EXCEPTED.
THEY WERE NOT LISTED WITH A REAL ESTATE AGENCY.
DID I DO BETTER?
END OF STORY.

You bought a house at a price you were willing to pay; that fits my definition of success.

Sounds like you did better, congratulations.



------------------
Jim Lee, CRS, ABR, GRI, e-PRO
Realty Executives Associates
Knoxville, Tennessee
http://www.KnoxvilleMLS.com
Jim@KnoxvilleMLS.com
1999 REALTOR of the year, Knoxville Association of REALTORS

I am not an attorney and am not giving you any legal advice. This response is only given for information purposes and should not be construed or substituted for legal advice.

sounds like alot of the deals done in florida right now where the the realtor and seller are the ones in control and given no room for buyer even though full price was offered..try full priceplus a dollar if not MOVE ON IS LIFE THAT SHORT???

Are you saying that if you knew how much the Shell station on the corner paid for gasoline vs. how much Shell's charging you that you wouldn't but from that station if you thought his profit margin was too high? Let alone the fact that the other stations on the other three corners were all selling gasoline at a higher price?

IOW, it doesn't make any diff what the seller paid for the house. What DOES matter is what the houses in the neighborhood with comparable features are selling for now. If the house is overpriced, then the market will reflect that. If its priced right, then I expect the house will sell.

Going back to the gas station analogy, if one other gas station on the corner was selling gas for .25 cents less per gallon, you'd buy from them, regardless if their markup or profit margin was the highest.

Supply and demand, and if your market is similar to mine, buyers are having to pay full list price and even sometimes over list to get the property they want.

------------------
http://realtor.wilkc.com
and
The Real Estate Forums

[This message has been edited by Florida_Associate (edited 03-15-2004).]

TO:FLORIDA ASSOCIATE
I HAVE BEEN BUSY AND HAVE JUST NOW HAD TIME TO THINK ABOUT YOUR ANALOGY.I FULLY AGREE WITH YOU.