With the new law, “Renovation, Repair and Painting (RRP) Rule both Realtors and clients will be affected. I believe one such affect; will be the falling value of homes built before 1978.

Here are my reasons …

First, the law requires that Lead Safe Certified Firms (certified contractors) basically do any work that disturbs a painted/stained surface. This dramatically increases the cost of repairs and renovations.

Secondly, insurance companies realize that they will have to pay higher hourly rates to these Lead Safe Certified Firms. This means that they will increase premiums on homes built before 1978.

Thirdly, Lead Safe Certified Firms use Certified Renovators. Many of the Certified Renovators are testing for lead based paint before work begins. Test results are then given to the homeowner, who must disclose them at time of sale … possibly showing that lead based paint exist.

Fourthly, the law recent was changed to where Lead Safe Certified Firms are required to give paperwork of their work practices to the homeowner. This paperwork will need to be given to the potential buyer along with the lead disclosure. Potential buyer sees this paperwork and it make them nervous.

Fifthly, the law is planning to change next year. Clearance testing will be required on certain renovation projects. Clearance is basically dust sampling. Many of these dust samplings will show that lead based paint does exist.

While many new home buyers are willing to purchase a home where no lead based paint is known (but could be there) … with the things mentioned above … many homebuyers won’t be interested in buying homes that actually have known lead based paint (and possible lead hazards) in the home. Thus, the price of homes will go dramatically down in the near future.

Dean
Lead Inspector

Lead/schmed. Educate your buyers and then a little lead paint won't be an issue, considering the greater risk when they step outside:

“California has led the nation in fighting pollution yet we still face enormous challenges to improve our air quality,” Jane Warner, president and chief executive officer of the American Lung Association in California. “More Californians die each year from air pollution than die in car accidents. We can and must do more to protect the health of the people of this great state,” Warner continued.

Air pollution takes a considerable toll on California, not only in lives but in major health care costs. Annually, the state’s dirty air causes 19,000 premature deaths, 9,400 hospitalizations and more than 300,000 respiratory illnesses including asthma and acute bronchitis.

source: http://www.turlockjournal.com/news/archive/4041/

19,000 / 365 = 52 dead Californians PER DAY

Not all structures prior to 1978 have lead paint.The new rule allows for testing.If the structure comes out negative for sampling then you do not need remediation.

I can already see testing companies falsifying test results so that rehabbers don't have to do expensive remediation.The investor just slips them some coin an doff you go.

What will probably happen is eventually the EPA will get wise to these workarounds and close the loops.

You can still do work your self as long as you are not disturbing a large area.I have know about this since last year.
This also applies to apartment buildings as well in most instances.

So forget a house what about rehabbing a 100 unit apartment building ?

The burn methods and other cheap rehab to get rid of lead paint are no longer allowed.I tell my investors to offer really low to compensate for increased costs of lead remediation on the rehab.

The rule does not apply to owners either, as I understand it.

From Artiste "Lead/schmed. Educate your buyers and then a little lead paint won't be an issue, considering the greater risk when they step outside"

Air pollution is an important issue, but Realtors won't get sued from air pollution. Pre-April 22, 2010 it would be Lead/schmed. Post April 22, 2010 it is a very different game as far as Realtors realize.

You are correct, in that not all structures have lead based paint. Some estimate that 75% do. The older the home, the more likely it does and the more likely the concentration of lead is heavier.

Investors/flippers actually need to become a Lead Certified Firm in many cases. So they can get fined on that alone.

A homeowner can do work themselves and not follow the RRP. However, when it comes to selling the home ... they will begin having problems with lead hazards, since no precautions were made and most likely lead dust is everywhere.

And the carrots will kill you too these days. It is a FACT that nearly every dead person consumed carrots at some point leading up to their demise. Many consumed them on the SAME DAY as their deaths occured, but more ate them within 1 WEEK of their deaths, and even more ate them within 1 MONTH.

How come you never here anyone talk about this? All of the evidence is out there. But do we have the courage to confront the carrot growers lobby? NO. The Big Carrot Industry must be dealt with and brought to justice. Where is Obama on this?

I bet you have not even heard him mention it. Does not suprise me. NO ADMININISTRATION has had the courage to.

Not trying to argue and not trying to argue if lead poisoning is or is not a problem.

If it is or is not a problem won't help a Realtor in a civil lawsuit or EPA fine for non-compliance. All of us may think lead poisoning is not happening, but that has nothing to do with fines/lawsuits for going against the law.

Maybe if we published the names of 52 dead-from-air-pollution people every day on the front page of the newspaper; we'd know to care and do something about it.

In the meantime, while people are dropping dead from pollution and we shouldn't even offer our clients a glass of water anymore, I'll be sure to tell them that lead paint is going to kill them/cost them some extra money.

Does this also mean that the dust from lead pencils could kill us too??????

It would; but "lead" pencils are made of graphite, which is a natural carbon . . . . so you can eat them or chew on them to your heart's content. It must be an ancient Urban Myth that they were made of lead. Lead doesn't leave nearly as dark or lustrous an impression.

I'd hate to tell you what some people do with them besides writing dirty smudgey words.

Air pollution is acceptable in moderation. 52 people per day given the population of California is not excessive, given the great benefits that exist for all due to industrialization.

Native Americans didn't have to worry about air pollution. Just dying at 35 years old from all manner of savagery. Everyone has to die of something, and the life expectacy of Californians is not appreciably lower than anywhere else.

In any case, the green movement doesn't care about human deaths or a clean planet. The true goal is to stop industry, achievement, progress, and liberty. They hate quality and they hate people who are effective. Why? Envy. Because they are ineffective and jealous of those who achieve great wealth and bring prosperity to the people they are trying to control. Their goal is always to pass a law to STOP something rather than worry about building anything. Really a horrible bunch of losers I think.

I do not have a sensitivity to these claims of deaths by the minute. I view them with heightened skepticism. Commonly it is a tactic of using an emotional lasso to garner support for something controling and costly, but cloaked as something benevolant.

My favorite example is the bicycle helmet. Were our parents and grandparents that dumb or just that lucky they managed to survive life without our wisdom and foresight to put a helmet on to ride the bike down the street? Or could it be they were risk takers and we are scaredy cats.

Well, I don't think the point of the thread is to discuss the validity of the dangers of lead paint but rather how these new laws/regulations/rules are going to affect us in a practical sense.

I agree with Perky

Agree with Perky & buyright. My purpose was to talk about how this new law will affect Realtors and homeowners.

I can start another topic "Lead Poisoning" to discuss if it happens or not.

Now back to the topic ...

Down here, we are starting to see Realtors getting hit with not following fiduciary duties as it pertains to this new lead law. Mainly on the buying side.

Not a lot right now, but definitely growing as more and more people hear about this law.

Well to start with the fine for doing work on property built prior to 1978 without lead based paint certification is $37,500 PER DAY!!! You have to be enrolled in a LBP class by Oct 1 to avoid the fine and have to complete the course by Dec 31, 2010.

Those who think that there isn't any threat from lead based paint are probably suffering from low IQ resulting from exposure as kids. It's much more damaging than you think, and it affects adults as well as children.

If you don't think it affects you, see what happens if you tell a client it's no big deal, or say they just have to make sure that their kids don't eat any paint chips, and see what happens if they get poisoned and the parents come after you! Not pretty.

http://www.realty4atlanta.com/lead-rears-ugly-head/

Deepsea,

Wow! You are the first Realtor I've known that is up to date with the law. Very few contractors know about the Oct 1/ Dec 31 dates.

Just to add to your post ... contractors can still get fined $37,500 a day for not complying with the work requirements. So, even though they won't get fined for not being certified ... they can get fined for not following work requirements.

To protect Realtors (representing the seller) ...

1. Do not pay the non-certified contractor directly. Let the homeowner pay.

2. If you personally arrange for repairs/renovations always use a Lead Safe Certified Firm.

3. If you make money off of arranging repairs/renovations you also need to be a Lead Safe Certified Firm.

My advice to seller agents is to get a signed receipt saying you informed the seller that they should use Lead Safe Certified Firms on any prep work.

The above, can help you from being in a lawsuit.

I have heard rumors that property managers will have to get certified as well. Have you heard anything about that?

From the EPA Website (FAQ)

A property management company acts as an agent for the landlord and has the same responsibilities as the landlord under the RRP Rule. Therefore, if the property management company uses its own employees to do the work, the property management company must be a certified firm and one of the employees must be a certified renovator.

If the property management company hires a renovation firm to perform the renovation, the property management company does not need firm or renovator certification, but the firm the property management company hires must be certified and must perform the renovation using a certified renovator that directs and provides on-the-job training to any workers that are not certified renovators.

Has that been ajudicated? I compare the issue to sex offender searches. That has been tested in court and as far as I know, our responsilities as agents to the owners/landlords are only to inform buyers where to search, not to perform the searches for them. And that applies to the buyer's agent too.

Doin,

Not sure which post you are talking about?

Dean, this quote sparked the thought. I wondered if the EPA was over reaching some. But maybe you are not talking about responsibility via agency, but simply, who needs to be certified. When I read your post quoted above I was thinking about the 'realtors being hit' you mentioned above in a previous post.

When I look at it again, you might have changed lanes and been talking simply about the need for the property management company to be certified as gent for the owner. I was taking it this way...the EPA can assign blame all the way down the chain to the realtor because of the agency relationship. That was the point I was contesting by asking if it had been court tested. Now I can see that you might have been making a different point altogether.

We have forms that specifically state if we are working with contractors for repairs on behalf of the sellers. I can already see when things going south to point the finger at the PM company.

The lead paint is going to hugely devalue these properties.

Same thing with asbestos and mold abatement.Before with the older homes investors could use cheap alternatives to fix up a property to make it worthwhile.

Now for instance there are properties in Atlanta 3/1's and 3/2's for 12,000.The problem is even if I get it for 10k with the new government regs it's a loser.

Get for 10k and hold for 4 years.Value goes back up to 50k.If I buy at 10k I will AT LEAST have 40k in repairs doing it the governments way.

I think alot of these properties need to be bulldozed and build new green houses with grants from the government.

Would kick start the construction industry again and the remediation companies would still get work from the tear downs.

Not if you own them Super, right? I guess you have to own them AND do the work yourself to be exempt. If you own them and parcel out the work, then all bets are off.

Only if you are a homeowner meaning LIVING in the property.Investors could say they are living there but then I wouldn't want to be the one when the TENANTS SUE and the EPA hits you up fro tens of thousands of dollars in fines.The solution is have the test done and keep a copy of it for the EPA and provide a copy to the tenant along with them signing the lead disclosure.

In Georgia we have homestead exemption for homeowners plus the tax billing address matches the owners address which on rentals never is sent to the tenants.



Information for Property Owners of Rental Housing, Child-Occupied Facilities

Property owners who renovate, repair, or prepare surfaces for painting in pre-1978 rental housing or space rented by child-care facilities must, before beginning work, provide tenants with a copy of EPA's lead hazard information pamphlet Renovate Right: Important Lead Hazard Information for Families, Child Care Providers, and Schools (PDF) (11 pp, 1.1MB) | en español (PDF) (11 pp, 2.4MB). Owners of these rental properties must document compliance with this requirement; EPA's sample pre-renovation disclosure form (PDF) (1 pp, 53K) may be used for this purpose.

After April 22, 2010, property owners who perform these projects in pre-1978 rental housing or space rented by child-care facilities must be certified and must follow the lead-safe work practices required by EPA's Renovation, Repair and Remodeling rule. To become certified, property owners must submit an application for firm certification (PDF) (9 pp, 642K) and fee payment to EPA. EPA began processing applications on October 22, 2009. The Agency has up to 90 days after receiving a complete request for certification to approve or disapprove the application.

Property owners who perform renovation, repairs, and painting jobs in rental property should also:

* Take training to learn how to perform lead-safe work practices.
* Learn the lead laws that apply to you regarding certification and lead-safe work practices beginning April 22, 2010.
* Keep records to demonstrate that you and your workers have been trained in lead-safe work practices and that you follow lead-safe work practices on the job. To make recordkeeping easier, you may use the sample recordkeeping checklist (PDF) (1 pg, 83K) that EPA has developed to help contractors comply with the renovation recordkeeping requirements that took effect April 22, 2010.
* Read about how to comply with EPA's rule in the EPA Small Entity Compliance Guide to Renovate Right (PDF) (32 pp, 5.5MB) | en español (PDF) (34 pp, 1.3MB).
* Read about how to use lead-safe work practices in EPA's Steps to Lead Safe Renovation, Repair and Painting (PDF) (36 pp, 878K) | en español (PDF) (36 pp, 1.5MB).

Top of Page

Information for Homeowners Working at Home

If you are a homeowner performing renovation, repair, or painting work in your own home, EPA's RRP rule does not cover your project. However, you have the ultimate responsibility for the safety of your family or children in your care. If you are living in a pre-1978 home and planning to do painting or repairs, please read a copy of EPA's Renovate Right: Important Lead Hazard Information for Families, Child Care Providers, and Schools (PDF) lead hazard information pamphlet (11 pp, 1.1MB). | en español (PDF) (11 pp, 2.4MB). You may also want to call the National Lead Information Center at 1-800-424-LEAD (5323) and ask for more information on how to work safely in a home with lead-based paint.

Top of Page

Information for Tenants and Families of Children under Age 6 in Child Care Facilities and Schools

As a tenant or a parent or guardian of children in a child care facility or school, you should know your rights when a renovation job is performed in your home, or in the child care facility or school that your child attends.

* Before starting a renovation in residential buildings built before 1978, the contractor or property owner is required to have tenants sign a pre-renovation disclosure form (PDF) (1 pp, 53K), which indicates that the tenant received the Renovate Right lead hazard information pamphlet.
* Beginning in December 2008, the contractor must also make renovation information available to the parents or guardians of children under age six that attend child care facilities and schools, and to provide to owners and administrators of pre-1978 child care facilities and schools to be renovated a copy of EPA's Renovate Right: Important Lead Hazard Information for Families, Child Care Providers, and Schools (PDF) lead hazard information pamphlet (11 pp, 1.1MB) | en español (PDF) (11 pp, 2.4MB).

Information for Contractors

As a contractor, you play an important role in helping to prevent lead exposure. Ordinary renovation and maintenance activities can create dust that contains lead. By following the lead-safe work practices, you can prevent lead hazards.

Contractors who perform renovation, repairs, and painting jobs in pre-1978 housing and child-occupied facilities must, before beginning work, provide owners, tenants, and child-care facilities with a copy of EPA's lead hazard information pamphlet Renovate Right: Important Lead Hazard Information for Families, Child Care Providers, and Schools (PDF) (11 pp, 1.1MB) | en español (PDF) (11 pp, 2.4MB). Contractors must document compliance with this requirement; EPA's pre-renovation disclosure form (PDF) (1 pp, 53K) may be used for this purpose.

Understand that after April 22, 2010, federal law requires you to be certified and to use lead-safe work practices. To become certified, renovation contractors must submit an application and fee payment to EPA.

* Application for firm certification (PDF) (9 pp, 590K)

EPA began processing applications on October 22, 2009. The Agency has up to 90 days after receiving a complete request for certification to approve or disapprove the application.

Contractors who perform renovation, repairs, and painting jobs should also:

* Take training to learn how to perform lead-safe work practices.
o Find a training provider that has been accredited by EPA to provide training for renovators under EPA's Renovation, Repair, and Painting (RRP) Program.
o Please note that if you previously completed an eligible renovation training course you may take the 4-hour refresher course instead of the 8-hour initial course from an accredited training provider to become a certified renovator. Click here for a list of eligible courses.
* Provide a copy of your EPA or state lead training certificate to your client.
* Tell your client what lead-safe methods you will use to perform the job.
* Learn the lead laws that apply to you regarding certification and lead-safe work practices beginning April 22, 2010.
* Ask your client to share the results of any previously conducted lead tests.
* Provide your client with references from at least three recent jobs involving homes built before 1978.
* Keep records to demonstrate that you and your workers have been trained in lead-safe work practices and that you follow lead-safe work practices on the job. To make recordkeeping easier, you may use the sample recordkeeping checklist (PDF) (1 pg, 83K) that EPA has developed to help contractors comply with the renovation recordkeeping requirements that took effect April 22, 2010.
* Read about how to comply with EPA's rule in the EPA Small Entity Compliance Guide to Renovate Right (PDF) (32 pp, 5.5MB) | en español (PDF) (34 pp, 1.3MB).
* Read about how to use lead-safe work practices in EPA's Steps to Lead Safe Renovation, Repair and Painting (PDF) (36 pp, 878K) | en español (PDF) (36 pp, 1.5MB).

NOTE: Contractors and training providers working in Wisconsin, Iowa, North Carolina, Mississippi, Kansas, Rhode Island, Utah, Oregon and Massachusetts must contact the state to find out more about its training and certification requirements. These states are authorized to administer their own RRP programs in lieu of the federal program. In following the above links you will leave the EPA Web site. Exit EPA Disclaimer

Contractors should also read the EPA Enforcement Alert newsletter titled Compliance with New Federal Lead-Based Paint Requirements (PDF) (4 pp, 120K).

I was not referring to rental space, but thanks for the data. I was thinking of buy, fix, and sell.

doin,

I was talking about the Realtors being hit in an earlier post and then later, I was answering a question on property managers.

Realtors main threat is not from the EPA (although some things they might do can result in EPA fines), but from civil litigation. The civil litigations would arise from not doing their fiduciary duties.

With this new law, no longer can a Realtor just get by with the lead disclosure, but needs to be proactive in protecting their client from lead hazards.

One predominate lead hazard would be if the home was worked on by a non-certified firm or the homeowner themselves.

Because of this new law Realtors are now easy targets for lawyers, where before this law they weren't.

I do a lot of talks at brokerage firms on this subject. In most major cities several out of court situations have been settled, because the Realtor & Brokerage firm were not being proactive in protecting their clients.

Besides being a lead inspector and Lead Based Paint Consultant ... I am director of an organization that has construction lawyers, real estate lawyers, EPA trainers, Certified Firms, Environmental Consultants and Certified Renovators. I mention this, because this is how I hear out of court situations.

Thanks Dean. I suppose it waits to be seen what fate awaits us as real estate agents. I remember being told fearful tales when the mold litigation train tried to gain steam. It never seemed to develop. If I read your post accurately you think our risk as agents is along the same lines.

Doin,

A Realtor is suppose to know and understand the laws.

When a Realtor representing the seller knows that work was done by a non-certified firm or the homeowner themselves and is not disclosed ... then they can personally get into trouble. This is because the Realtor can assume that lead hazards exist.

The lead hazard is the construction dust from any painted/stained surface that was disturbed by the non-certified firm or the untrained homeowner themselves.

When a Realtor representing the buyer doesn't ask for all knowledge of past repairs/renovations ... they are not doing their fiduciary duty. If those repairs/renovations were done by a non-certified firm or the homeowner, then the Realtor representing the buyer can safely assume that lead hazards exist and that a lead inspection/assessment is needed.

Every Realtor understands about the law for lead based paint DISCLOSURE. This new law is about lead based paint HAZARDS. Two totally different laws.

With mold the Realtor doesn't know something is bad. With this lead law, the Realtor does know something is bad.

From some other post, they were talking about the Investor/Flipper. The law states that anyone who performs work for compensation is required to be a Lead Safe Certified Firm who will use a Certified Renovator. An investor/flipper who personally performs work is understood to be receiving compensation.

I think it's an up and coming growth industry - disgruntled contractors squealing on one-another for disturbing more than 3 square feet of previously painted surface.

If you bid a job and don't get it, wait for them to start on that 4th square foot and then turn them in ! Helps to eliminate the competition.

LOL

Yes as mentioned my point was buy,sell,flip is an investor and you HAVE TO follow the rules.

You could as I said say you live their just like investors said they were going to live in a HUD home during the owner/occupant bid period.

Many got away scott free but others paid a HEAVY price.People will do many things THAT ARE AGAINST THE LAW for monetary gain.

We have already had instances of EPA checkups in GA on rehabs where the investor owners have been hit with fines.Not the huge ones they could do but around 1,000 as a way of saying get the word out and we will be watching.

Dean great post !
Thanks to all for the valuable info and bringing awareness to everyone in Real estate