Does an agent have the right to contact a seller directly, who's house is listed with another firm, to market their buyer agency services to them ?

Somewhere in the Code of Ethics it is stated that you can contact a client of another Realtor to offer another service. You can find the exact statement at Realtor.org

would you consider it unethical if another agent contacted your seller to promote their buyer agent services? if you have no buyer agency agreement, why should that seller be off limits to all other agents? perhaps you are a lousy agent and someone else is a superior agent that the seller may want to know about.

just asking.

Off limits. And skeezy.

Absolutely not. You can't do that, it is clearly interfering with agency. Buyer agency is not "another service". The listing agent always offers buyers agency and/or buyer referral service to their client. Any agent that pulls something like that on one of my listings will receive a personal visit, as will their broker. Agents need to generate their own business, not attempt to feed on the business generated by other agents.

wait a minute. why can't someone do that? how is this interfering with the existing seller agency relationship? as a listing broker you are not automatically someones "buyers agent". why shouldn't the seller have a choice who they use?

this is for discussion and i am not promoting it... but... as far as i can tell there is nothing in the rules and regs of real estate law that says this can't be done.

That would be a no-no here. From our code of ethics:

Dealings with other registrants

7. (1)
A registrant who knows or ought to know that a person is a client of another registrant shall communicate information to the person for the purpose of a trade in real estate only through the other registrant, unless the other registrant has consented in writing. O. Reg. 580/05, s. 7 (1).

PA Roadkill is correct, according to the Realtor COE, it would appear to be Ok for a buyer agent to solicit a client of a listing agent for the pupose of buyer representation. It is a "different type of real estate service".

"Article 16 does not preclude REALTORS® from contacting the client of another broker for the purpose of offering to provide, or entering into a contract to provide, a different type of real estate service unrelated to the type of service currently being provided..."

Now, if the seller also contracted with the listing agent for buyer agency services, then it would be off limits.

i don't think that applies in this instance.

let me give you a scenario to mull on: someone is selling a house and also wants to buy a house. there is a buyers agent that will rebate back 75% of their commission to me if I use them.

you are saying that they can not know about this buyers agent because they can't contact the seller.

does that make any sense from the sellers perspective and do you think they have any idea that you claim to "own" them. ?

tempe posted just before me so i didn't see his response. yes... that makes sense.

how can there be such differing views among agents who are supposedly professionals licensed to practice real estate ???

Seems like you contradict yourself.

I believe that it certainly does apply. When you are contacting them to be their buyer agent you are obviously doing so "for the purpose of a trade in real estate".

I send out to commercial expired's all the time. Even if they re-list with that broker they call me and use me to purchase things sometimes. Sometimes when they re-list they terminate after talking with me and list with me.I don't direct them to terminate but after they talk with me and ask about my marketing they want to switch.

I have a disclaimer in mice type on all my fliers that says.

"This flier is not intended to solicit properties currently listed for sale by another brokerage."

Sellers are free to choose who they want to buy things through.People buy and sell through me not because I give a rebate( I don't do rebates ). They use me because after I interact with them they feel I am the best person to help them with their goals.

Whether or not it's technically ok in your area you are setting yourself up to be a Pariah with other agents in your area.

Ditto!

Like dual agency and so many other things in this business, the law and the NAR provide basic minimums when it comes to ethics. It is our responsibility to exceed those bare minimums in order to be good agents/brokers. I really don't give a rat's ess what the law says, it is wrong to solicit buyer agency business from a seller that is listed with another agent.

And you know, it's just obvious that it's wrong and I don't even need a law or a realtor reg to guide me. It's common sense. When I take a listing it is implicitly understood that I will attempt to provide the seller with a full suite of services including buyer services. What agent doesn't? Therefore, it is common sense for you to assume that in the case of any listed property, the listing agent is conducting buyer agency related services for their seller. It is a standard and ubiquitous industry practice. Therefore, you need to stay away! It's just common courtesy to the profession and its participants.

Furthermore, doing the best job for your clients demands maintaining professional and cordial relationships with other practitioners with whom you will be doing deals now and in the future. Anybody with half a brain can predict that if you run around to all the listed homes and start soliciting what you wrongly consider to be an unrelated service, then guess what? Every agent in the community is going to hate your guts, show your listings as a last resort, and pick other buyers over your buyers whenever possible. You are now doing a horrible job for your all your clients before you even start working with or for them.

Why invite such vituperation and ill will? To hustle up referral fees from some misbegotten and incompetent buyer agent who plans to prostitute themselves with buyer rebates and give you a cut?

Awful plan. Loser plan.

Please fellow professionals: Stop dreaming up new hustles and just get your ess out in the field and get new business in a normal and competent fashion. Or even better, get out of my profession.

Thats my thought. I have given my opinions of other agents to my clients and they decided not to write an offer or accept an offer. An agents reputation goes a long way.

There are plenty of other ways to obtain buyers then to try to horn in on somebody else's Seller client. Personally, even if this type of activity is technically permitted, I believe that it is ethically inappropriate.

Understood by whom? You? Other agents? Consumers?

And how about all the other agents that the seller may have interviewed in the process of seeking out a listing agent? Are you saying "sorry... i got them and now you can't speak to them"?

I understand ethics... but what is more ethical: allowing consumers to know all of their options OR, saying they are off limits because you got the listing?

Really what it boils down to is you want people to play nice under the current set of rules... ethics be damned. What SHOULD happen is that consumers be given all of the information available to them and let them make up their own mind of who they want to use... and not have an "ethical" rule as a barrier to competition.

I'm just throwing this out there as one position to take... not necessarily mine.

Just to give you an idea of how screwed up this industry is... and it relates to this thread somewhat... I was in a new home development (500's) today talking with the builder-rep and someone came in to take a look at a home. At the end of the tour the issue of "agents" came up and the buyer said they had a buyers agent. Pressed a little, the buyer indicated that the agent selling their house had been helping them look at homes. When asked about a "buyers agency agreement", they said they hadn't signed one. The builder rep said that they would not offer a buyers agent commission to the other agent and if they wanted to buy in this neighborhood (or any home built by that builder)... and they should write up an offer through them (the rep). They were welcome to use their own buyers agent but they would have to pay them out of thier own pocket. He went onto say that he knew of a broker that could "represent" the buyer and handle paperwork if need be for $795 in the transaction.

Now what do you think the buyer is going to do if they purchase in this neighborhood? ... and what should happen if the buyer DID have a buyers agency agreement with the agent? Should the buyer be required to pay $15,000 out of their pocket when they know someone who will do it for $795?

This is a parachuting issue. If the buyers were instructed to register before looking and did not then that is on the buyers.

Builders always say we won't pay blah,blah but in my area the buyer says they will walk and the builder gives in.

Around here the 500's are a move up home and those types of buyers are very hard to come by. Builders and developers make no demands here and just say YES to most buyers demands.

This is not 2004,2005 anymore.

To avoid this specific problem, we always go with buyers to builders open houses, and get them registered.

It's frustrating when the buyer takes it upon themselves to "check out" these open houses and doesn't want to bother you with it.

I agree with super realtor if you buyer threatens to walk, the builder will cave.

Broker, great thread! Although I wouldn't solicit current sellers to represent them as buyers (my own sense of decorum, not because the law or COE says so), I can see your point. I would not feel threatened if another agent solicited my listing, as I believe my level of professionalism will keep my clients loyal. Again, great thread.

just so i understand... some brokers here are saying that a buyer should walk away from a house they want, that they found by themselves with no help of an agent, so that the agent can earn their full commission? either having a signed BA agreement or not?

Who said anything about walking away?

Apparently you don't believe you bring much value to the transaction.

The buyer, upon finding a possible home to look at, should consult their buyers agent to set up a showing. That way, they get the benefit of their agents representation in the future. Representation that has a lot of value if you are a good agent.

It's not about finding the house, it's about buying the house. That's where the participation of a top buyer's agent becomes a value. To protect that value, the buyer needs to keep their agent involved at all steps in the process.

Now if you don't believe you bring any real value to the buyer's efforts, then by all means, they should ditch you anytime and negotiate and close on their own behalf.

"who said anything about walking away"



explain to me, and a consumer, what value you bring to the transaction as explained above, that the company doing it for $795 doesn't.

do you honestly beleive you should get 15k for writing a contract and submitting it on a new home that a buyer found themselves?

do you think that a buyer can't negotiate on their own behalf... or that a builder would'nt have more leeway if the agent wasn't involved?

That quote is from me.............

do you honestly beleive you should get 15k for writing a contract and submitting it on a new home that a buyer found themselves? YES

The buyers could have seen the property in the MLS or from information you provided them.



I used to have one agent at my brokerage that would rebate back everything and would only make 250.00 per closing.My company only charged 300 per transaction to the agents.

There will always be cheap buyers out there looking for a rebate.There will also be buyers and sellers that never question me on commission.

I list commercial properties and get 7 to 10 percent each and every time depending on what type of asset class it is and the marketing involved.I am sure there are other buyers and sellers who have brokers/agents do it for cheap but I don't need them.

All I need is buyers and sellers who fit into my business model and I do very well.

I always get a kick out of watching house hunters.Some poor agent showed first time home buyers 103 properties over about 10 months before they bought anything for 200k which was a 6,000 check before the broker split and associated business costs.

After everything was done this agent would have made more per hour at Wal-Mart.........

Everyone has a right to their own business model. Mine works awesome and I am not going to change it.If someone wants to run a bulk model for less go for it.

Finding the house is not really what we are paid for people! We are paid to process the transaction and represent our client's best interests. Also in the case of a build job, making sure the builder actually builds what they said they were going to build. I'm sick and tired of finding builders switching out stuff like putting smaller mirrors in the home than were in the model or switching out the faucets that were included for cheaper ones etc. The reason they do this is because most consumers don't even notice - that is our job to notice these things and make the builder stick to their contract.