Hello forum,

I'm interested in purchasing one or more residential properties in the next couple of years for investment purposes. I would like the ability to look at these properties on a whim, without bugging my realtor friend everytime I want to quickly preview a home.

Who is allowed to use lockboxes to enter a home? I live in Virginia and am interested mostly in Virginia laws pertaining to this question. I know, obviously, Realtors are authorized to access homes via a lockbox, but what about other professions such as home inspectors? Is there an easy (or any) route for me to become "certified" or otherwise authorized to use lockboxes to enter and preview a home?

I should mention, although I doubt it makes any difference, I'm usually only going to be interested in unoccupied dwellings. Many thanks for anyone who can shed some light on this.

Feel free to bug your REALTOR, they're the one's with authorized access - not you.

I don't think there are "laws" (government style laws) about use of lockboxes anywhere.
The issue is more if trust. My clients trust that I will only give access to properties via lockbox to agents when showing properties, home inspectors to perform home inspections, repair people to complete authorized repairs, etc.

Nowhere on that list is people who "would like the ability to look at these properties on a whim". Next tine I'm in DC if I want to see the Oval Office "on a whim" do you think they'll give me the lockbox code?

Your answer seems rather slanted. I'm willing to go get my Real Estate license if that's what it takes. I have a REALTOR whom I trust a great deal. The guy has done a lot for me and I would never use anyone else, however, I am planning to look at a lot of properties in the DC area over the next two years and need to be able to access them by myself.


No, the White House is not listed for sale. I've met a lot of REALTORS and am not surprised a question like this ruffled feathers...lol.

I think more than anything this is an accountablity issue. An agent that gives a lockbox combo without being at the property opens themselves up to a great deal of headache.
I think it would be in your best interest just to go ahead sign up for night classes to get your license (I did while working full time and going to College) or take a week off and get a crash course.
Especially with all this shadow inventory on the market you have a great chance of finding a good deal once the banks dump their properties. You will be glad you did it, trust me.

I am Not a lawyer and this is not legal advice

And this is why I love electronic lock boxes....

There are pros and cons to having a real estate license to invest in properties. The pros are that you have access to all MLS data, you can indeed access homes on your own, and you may be entitled to a commission when you purchase a property for your own accout. The cons are that you have to identify yourself as a real estate agent whenever you talk to a seller (this is NYS law - I don't know about Virginia)so it may be difficult to approach FSBOs who may think you are trying to get a listing, you will have to pay local board dues, and you will need to carry E&O insurance.

[quote=TomMoser]There are pros and cons to having a real estate license to invest in properties. The pros are that you have access to all MLS data, you can indeed access homes on your own, and you may be entitled to a commission when you purchase a property for your own accout. The cons are that you have to identify yourself as a real estate agent whenever you talk to a seller (this is NYS law - I don't know about Virginia)so it may be difficult to approach FSBOs who may think you are trying to get a listing, you will have to pay local board dues, and you will need to carry E&O insurance. [/quote]

In California, if you're a real estate agent, you can't make a "secret profit." E.g., if you're approaching a potential seller and tell them you'll buy their house for a certain price but have a second buyer who will immediately buy it from you for more, that would be considered a violation of the real estate rules and possible revocation of your license.

However, if you're not a licensed agent and merely an investor and are shrewd enough to convince a seller that their house is only worth a certain amount, you can go ahead and immediately sell it for more to someone else without any repercussions, with the exception of any moral or ethical dilemmas.

Which of course just supports all the more reason to make sure you use a licensed real estate agent to sell your house and not sell to an investor who is not looking out for your best interest, as a licensed real estate agent has a fiduciary responsibility to any seller in any real estate transaction, whether or not they're a client or a direct seller.

[quote=PMR]
In California, if you're a real estate agent, you can't make a "secret profit." E.g., if you're approaching a potential seller and tell them you'll buy their house for a certain price but have a second buyer who will immediately buy it from you for more, that would be considered a violation of the real estate rules and possible revocation of your license.

However, if you're not a licensed agent and merely an investor and are shrewd enough to convince a seller that their house is only worth a certain amount, you can go ahead and immediately sell it for more to someone else without any repercussions, with the exception of any moral or ethical dilemmas.
[/quote]

The example that you quote would definately be an ethics violation here in New York, too. I was more referring to a true investor rather then a fast buck artist. Under NYS law you could act as a Buyer Broker, with yourself as the Buyer Client. And, under our local MLS rules, you would be entitled to the same commission as any Buyer Broker.

Thank you for a good response with useful info...Tom.

The laws are so different in so many states. We are not quite sure how they work in Virginia. Here in Georgia they stop the appraisers and home inspectors from having a supra key (electronic) to get into the homes, unless they have a Realtors license. In Virginia it's a little different. I have a friend who is a Realtor in Virgina who could answer that question for you directly without you feeling obligated to him for any reason. Email me at blessedanU@gmail.com and I can forward you his information.

Most boards allow affiliate members who are not licensed agents, and some of those members may be able to pay MLS dues and rent the electronic keys so they can access houses without an agent. Appraisers and inspectors, for instance, may opt to pay the various dues for that reason and become affiliate members. I doubt that a board would allow an investor to affiliate, however, so that he/she could have access to properties without an agent.

The issue is not as simple as looking at houses. The real issue is protecting property owners and their property. Now I know that the following might really ring your bell, C4talyst; but in my experience, investor lookers--especially the newbies--are the ones who do the most damage to "investor grade" properties. They want to see underneath carpets, behind partitions, and maybe even underneath wallpaper. I would NEVER want an investor alone in one of my listings! It's hard enough to control them when an agent is right there beside them!

It's not just a case of "membership has its privilege." Licensees and their actions are covered by real estate laws, E&O insurance, and ethics regulations. Almost all of the laws that govern real estate agents and transactions have as their sole purpose the protection of the public, not the agent. So, C4talyst, if you want to get your license, affiliate with a broker who will provide E&O insurance, join an MLS, rent the electronic equipment, and thereby have the appropriate coverages, equipment, oversight, and licensing, go for it. Otherwise, call your agent.

If you are going to purchase "one or more" properties over the "couple of years," it does not seem worth the effort or expense, however. In my area, it costs about $2000 a year to maintain license, memberships, and pay the dues and rentals for electronic access. Of course, a new agent would also have the expense of taking pre-licensure classes, taking state and local exams, and paying for the license itself. Your agent is still your best bet, unless you are willing to fork out $4,000 for two years' worth of whims.

Thanks for the info Liz. I imagine I will be mostly looking at empty properties that I know already need work. Paint and flooring will be a given at these places, so I doubt I'll have a need to do too much digging.

If it only costs me (approx) 4 grand to get a license, and 2 grand a year to maintain it, seems worth it to me.

What if I want to look at 15 properties in a month, and don't end up buying any of them. At what point does helping me cease to be profitable for my Realtor?

You are right, of course. Keep in mind, however, that many times an agent shows numerous properties to a customer before actually selling to that customer. Some of those would-be buyers just evaporate into thin air, and they never buy anything from the agent who has spent hours or days with them. Experience, of course, helps the agent learn to avoid these situations.

A true investor, however, will buy. Experienced investors spend very little time in most houses. They eliminate the "no goes" pretty quickly, and then they move on to work up estimates on the few about which they are serious. It's the beginning investors who drain an agent, because they may spend hours on several houses, trying to run calculations and debating the virtues of one against the other. Ask your agent if he/she is willing to devote the time it will take to help you become a serious investor, as opposed to a wannabe investor. You might be surprised at the answer. You also can sign a buyer's agency agreement that compensates the agent separately from commissions--that is, in addition to commissions. If you are willing to put that $2000 per year in the form of a retainer fee, you might get the benefit of the agent's expertise pretty cheaply. There's a lot to be said about the value of bouncing ideas off of another person. One thing you should not do, however, is run this poor agent's legs off and then go get your own license. Your post seems to indicate that you do want to be fair.

I have a couple of investors who only purchase one or two properties a year. It is fun to work with them, but we are respectful of each other's time. I sometimes find houses that I urge them to see immediately, and they sometimes call me about houses they need to see. Mostly, I just send them market updates. They do drive-bys to narrow the choices on their own or they may just decide based on price and neighborhood, but they do not have to see inside every house. If they are not in a buy mode right now, they still watch the market updates to stay current, and they use the internet to look at photos online. When they do visit a house, they walk through in a reasonable amount of time, and then they do their calculations on their own time. When it comes time to list one of their properties, they list it with me. They value my opinion, and I value theirs. I do want to be able to see properties through an investor's eyes, so the relationship is symbiotic.

I have also cut off wannabes and completely stopped sending them any updates, when it became obvious that they simply were not ready to get in the market or when their property expectations were completely unrealistic.