TB,

i agree with you 100% it is not a good tactic. i was looking into the opinions of some "out of the box" ways to market to expireds. to be quite frank, i would be out of business if it were not for expireds.>>>>actually, let me change that....i would have to adapt to something new for my mainstream of business if i could not work expireds...

when this thread came about, i was thinking of the different possibilities of ways that i could legally contact an expired.

lets face it, we each do or should know our business plan intimately. i know mine...when this thread came about i started to think to myself about how or if i would be able to run an expired plan in Canada. i have learned to love expireds even more than a standard come list me call. so much easier to work with an expired in my opinion.

all that being said, it makes no sense that a competent agent cannot contact someone who has interest in selling just because they were listed with an agent that could not deliver. i just dont see the logic in this and i am quite bamboozled:-)

Yeah, I am intrigued by the whole Privacy Law thing, in light of their voluntary participation in an MLS listing, opening up their data to all of the MLS subscribers. It doesn't make sense to me, and I would be all over my provincial Realtor organization to go to work for me on the issue.

The reasoning behind it is that the contracts for listings are private contracts which state that some private information will be used in the marketing/attempted sale of the property. This includes putting some private information on to the MLS system as a form of marketing. The contract does not permit this private information to be used for other reasons such as other companies contacting them with this information. Our new listing agreements give the seller an option as to whether or not they wish to be contacted once the listing expires. When we see an expired listing it will specifically state "Expired-No contact" or...well....I have never actually seen what the other says because everybody chooses the first option! The consumer is given a choice as to whether or not they want their information used upon the termination of the listing and because they all choose no, then that is what they get. This is federal legislation and part of a much larger privacy act than simply targeting real estate. I am not saying that I agree with it (although if I had a property listed as a consumer and my listing expired, I certainly would not want dozens of agents calling my house) but these are the rules we play by.

It is just like the DNC list....all about making the public happy and protecting their wishes to be contacted or to not be contacted.

We caanot use the MLS to contact/solicit previously listed homes. Now of course, you could plead ignorance and contact the entire street zeroing in on the EXPIRED. However, if they could prove you take a lot of expired listings as a result of this strategy, you would be fined. The arguement is that the intent of the MLS is a service to sell the home while listed and not to be on a list for solicitations.

So is the contact information for those expireds (e.g. Owners name) only available because the property was previously listed? Could you get that information elsewhere, like public records?

People have tried to use the excuse that they got the seller's information from the phone book or other public records...that does not make a difference because the only reason that they knew about it was from the MLS system to begin with. Otherwise everybody would simply use 411 on every single expired listing as a way around things.

boy am I glad I am not in Canada.

No kidding. Another example of a good intention that was not thought out - and at the end hurts the consumer.

I don't think that it hurts the consumer....I wouldn't want dozens of people calling me either. At the end of their contract they are free to contact whoever they want, they are not forced to continue to work with the same agent....they just don't have vulture agents trying to do business the easy way calling them.

Also, in our listing agreements there is an option for the consumer to choose between being contacted or not being contacted by agents upon the expiry of the contract. If they feel that they would be benefited by having all of those phone calls then they can choose that option. I still do not see how having a bunch of agents calling the expired listing benefits the customer....the only people it benefits are real estate agents.

"Vulture agents trying to do business the easy way calling them.", eh? You don't seem to have much respect for your colleagues, do you MHT? Or could it be a case of selfprojection - how you feel about you and your business? Just wondering...

Either way, calling expireds is NOT that easy. Especially if you trying to fake it. Or don't know what you're doing.

Here is how it benefits the customer... CHOICE. They can quickly chose from 15-20 good, hard-working agents. Agents who believe in their service and who hussle. Agents who don't mind rolling up their sleves to help their customers (and to put food on their table by actually working).

That's the kind of agent I want to represent me. And I can determine if the person on the other end of the phone matches my expectations in a couple of minutes.

If I don't like the person, I just say thank you and hang up. Fast, easy and effecient. And that's how it benefits both the agent and the customer.

What I meant by that was that you are sitting there letting other agents do the hard and expensive work of finding the listings in the first place and then simply picking up the scraps. Your excuse will likely be, well, the agent should have done a better job. We all know that there are many reasons that listings will expire that have nothing to do with how good the original agent is. Calling expired listings is much easier and cheaper than being the agent who is out there trying to get the listings in the first place and you know that....that is why you started doing expired listings is it not? Am I saying that this is not a legitimate method (if permitted)? Certainly not. And if I was in a market where it was allowed I would probably do some of the same. But let's keep it real as to what you are doing. You are relying on the hard work of other agents to hand you leads.

"Easy to find - they are already waving their hand saying "Hey, we want to sell!"
Inexpensive to market to
Many are motivated to list and sell right away
Frequently more realistic about pricing after months on the market
Most expireds appreciate a good agent
More educated about the listing process because they've already been trough it
Plentiful in most markets"

I understand what you're saying, MHT.

Being involved with expireds for almost 20 years, I have yet to see a listing where the reason it's expired wasn't the listing agent's responsibility.

Price, condition, showing restrictions, terms, commission - at the end - it's ALL the agent's responsibility and part of their job. To educate and assist the seller. To communicate clearly. That's what we do. That's why we get hired.

You're absolutely right, expireds are one of the easiest ways to get listings. Mainly because of so much incompetence.

Yes, there are unrealistic sellers out there. Unreasonable expectations. Low motivation. Crazy circumstances. Change of plans. After all, I had my own listings expire on me. BUT... it's still MY job to get the home sold. My responsibility.

And if it doesn't sell - it's MY FAULT. End of discussion.

Think about it this way... A surgeon performs a complicated surgery. But, in spite of best intentions something goes wrong and the patient dies. Ultimately, it's always the doctor's responsibility.

"Sorry, Mrs. Jones, your husband didn't make it. BUT, the doctor tried really hard!"

Same thing in real estate...

If another agent drops the ball, I will do whatever I can to help the sellers. That's MY JOB. I don't care how hard the other agent worked. We don't get hired or PAID for hard work.

They were hired to - or they accepted the job - to get the house sold. And they didn't get it done.

"Frequently more realistic about pricing after months on the market"

As you state, sometimes it takes them months to come to the realization that their agent may in fact have been correct about the value of their home....unfortunately if they do not listen to the first agent, that first agent loses the listing and then someone else comes along and the seller finally clues in. That is not the fault of the agent. We can suggest, recommend, demand all we want, but we can't force anybody to do anything. I do agree that there are agents who drop the ball....who will say whatever it takes just to get the listing including telling the seller some crazy price that we all know it will never sell for.

If the surgeons starts doing surgery and the patient gets up and walks out part way through, that would be their own damn fault. lol

since we are playing hte game of quoting what others say to use it against them, i would like to put this thread to rest


as much as i want to get into a long winded debate, i don't have time right now.

to me, this quote from you sums it up. you seem to contradict yourself. you state that you wish you could market to expireds then later on it sounds to me that you bash the marketing to expireds. at the very least, you could keep your story the same

i just interviewed against two of the top agents in the area and won just this past friday. truth be told, the seller would have made a great decision hiring any of us!

the last agent they had was not an agent who called them, but an agent who they called randomly. they were very appreciative that i called and made communications with them. same as the guy i put under contract on monday. he was only on with me for 26 days and went under contract. funny thing is that i was able to net him more money in 26 days than his last agent was able to net in 200+ days! he got 2 lowball offers durring his 200 days. we priced correctly, marketed aggressivly and he got traffic and an offer that is $15,000.00 higher than his last agent could get him! we got the realistic buyers...i also forgot to mention that it was a multiple offer situation! he loves us. vulture? let the client determine that. i have never had a client who thought that i am a vulture. i am the solution to their problem.