it is always the fault of hte agent. if an agent cannot or does not tell the truth about pricing in the beginning, then they lack INTEGRITY!


the red quote would be the fault of the anesthesiologist! so yes, it is hte docs fault.

the blue quote...i still blame the agent for not selling....why would an agent list a home that htey know will not sell? DESPERATION FOR BUSINESS? i think so.

^^^^just wanted to go into further detail to show exactly how i feel!

to many people in todays society lack personal accountability. that is why we have coffee lids that say "caution hot beverage"

people need some accountability.

its the agents fault! no excuses

I also stated in this very discussion that if it was permitted then I would likely do so...I am not saying I wouldn't....I referenced it as vulture activity because it is picking up the scraps from the agents who spent the time and money on getting the original listing in the first place...I still stand by that. If a vulture had to go out and hunt their own food they would be in trouble as would many of the agents who rely solely on expired listings. I do not contradict myself, I state what the activity is like. I do not lie to my sellers about the value of their home...I show them them what it is worth. If they then state, well I want to try at this other higher price, I explain to them that if they want to try it, that is fine, but we will be re-evaluating within the first couple of weeks if we do not get activity and they agree. If, after a couple of weeks we get nothing I go back to them and say see, this is what I was telling you. If they choose not to change the price at that point have I lied to them? Have I let them down? No, they have decided that even with all of the market information, the lack of activity, etc they still do not want to lower their price. That is on them. Now, 3 months later and after being told repeatedly that the price is too high, still nothing. I let it go because they are not being reasonable and this act causes them to finally re-evaluate and another agent gets the listing at the price I told them over and over and of course it sells. If you want to still blame this on the listing agent then you obviously do not listen to reason. Are there MANY incompetent agents? Of course. To paint every expired listing with the same brush is not fair to the agents who do their job properly but for whatever reason the house does not sell.

Ultimately, it is the sellers who decide on the price (albeit, with input/advice from the Realtor). If you do not think that it is a reasonable asking price and that it would not be a wise investment of your marketing time, then you dont have to take the listing. Many realtors take overpriced listings which ultimately expire, would that be the fault of OTHER realtors who are then in a position to garner interest from the sellers (hopefully at a more realistic price)?

Believe me, I have walked away from listings that were overpriced....I was referring to the clients who will say one thing then do another (aka lie to their agent). When it comes to money people will say and do things that are out of character. With not being able to call expired listings the consumer has the choice to call whoever THEY want once their contract has expired, rather than having many agents calling trying to get the listing....to me, this sounds like a better option for the consumer....and why every seller that I have met (and by the looks of the MLS system, EVERY other seller too) chooses this option over permitting other agents to call upon expiry.

The consumer has this choice with or without the help of the privacy law. Some of the best salespeople I ever met who helped me immensely I never even knew existed until they contacted me.

This is in response to MHT's comments.

First of all I'd like to say that I'm a licensed Realtor based out of Toronto, Ontario, Canada as well.

Now I have just purchased Borino's expired plus system and I fully plan on implementing it and using it to help people sell their homes.

There are 2 ways to look at yourself MHT. You can either think of yourself as a vulture real estate agent out there picking up scraps and selling to people or you can think of yourself as a professional who cares about people and wants to help them accomplish their goals. Ofcourse we get paid for this, but it's hard work and this is how we choose to make our living.

How you choose to find your business is solely up to you. I know many agents who prospect fsbos, go door-to-door, direct mail, sphere of influence and expireds (yes, expireds, here in Canada).

Now, since the doctor-patient is so popular, i'm going to throw another one out there....

Imagine that you or one of your someone you care about had a condition that required surgery for full health to be regained. Now let's say that a suregon performed surgery but the surgery was not done right. Now in order to take care of this condition you still need a successful surgery to happen. Now if a competent surgeon, with a history of helping other people with unsuccesful surgeries, contacted you and expressed an honest desire to help you and truly believed that they can do so, would you not take the time to listen. Now if you truly felt that they can help you, would you not be relieved that this person found you??

Ofcourse there are some unethical agents out there who will advise sellers to make a decision that is only in the agents best interests such as convincing the sellers to sell or buy if there is really no true motivation, desire of benefit to the client. Just like in any profession there are people who take their job seriously and others who lack the competence or the integrity.

I don't see how helping people accomplish what they originally sought out to do, considering that the desire still exists, can be perceived in such a negative light by you.

I think you should try helping some expireds out and it will change your perception. Yes, it might not get you liked by some of the other agents out there but we can't please everybody and if you had to pick between pleaseing agents or homeowners who need to sell, who would you pick?

There's nothing wrong with getting in touch, showing them what you can offer and if they're interested in hearing more, great! If not, then you've tried and you're going to walk away.

That's all well and good except that it is illegal due to privacy laws. Some agents choose to follow the laws, others (including yourself apparently) choose not to.

Interesting discussion...and valid points. Here is a question:

Do you always - ALWAYS - drive the speed limit?
Do you always report the exact amounts on your income tax?
Do you always... well, you get my point.

I am all for privacy. Mine, my customers' and public in general. All good. But there are times when a well-intended rule or a law creates unintended consequences. Like this one. It does nothing (or very little) to protect the sellers' privacy. And it prevents good, honest agents from helping folks.

At the end, each agent has to decide what is ultimately the right thing to do. Just like sometimes you drive the speed limit, and sometimes you don't.

That is the argument people always use to try to get away with breaking all sorts of rules/laws and to be honest it is a pathetic one. Would you like me to rob your house just because I think I can get away with and and then say oh well, you speed right? Here, consumers are given the option if they want to be contacted or not once their listing expires....THEY are the ones that are choosing to not allow agents to contact them. The consumers have spoken and said that they do not want to be contacted.

always follow the golden rule.

do that and you will be able to sleep at night!

i dont want tow truck drivers calling me on my cell phone, but you better believe that if im broke down on the side of the road and a tow truck driver gives me a call...i'll be glad that he called to solve my problem!

maybe soliciting people who have not expressed a need or want to sell(normal marketing) is more annoying to the consumer than calling somoene who has expressed the interest in selling(expired marketing)!