If it can be shown that you are specifically targeting expired listings in such a manner (ie. you consistently just happen to be marketing to a small group of homes which always contains an expired listing) then you would be in violation.

Our listing agreements now have a place for a seller to choose whether or not they wish to be contacted by agents upon the expiry of their listing. On the MLS system, we as agents can see if they have chosen to be contacted or not....I have yet to see someone select the option to be contacted by agents upon expiry. They all show "Expired-No Contact".

Sorry, just saw the other questions. If there are 10 houses on a street and all 10 expire, you are out of luck....if you wanted to just pick one of those houses, you are still out of luck (your only way around this in both cases could be a mass mailing, or possibly if you can show that you farm a particular neighborhood and frequently send out mailings to the entire area and it just so happened that an expired listing got a mailing due to these mass mailings). The reason that expired listings are off limits under the privacy laws is that you have obtained the private information regarding the seller/listing from information that they had given only in regards to the original listing agreement....it is not assumed that this information can be used by others beyond this agreement. If they were not an expired listing then they are free to go after.

MHT,

Thanks for the clarification.

the reason i asked so many questions is so that i could paint a clear picture of what is and is not allowed. privacy laws! wow. that really stinks! i guess mass mailings and farmings would be the way to go in a market in canada.


i just thought of this. i have been following lucky's thread.

he cold calls 100 people every single day. what if one of them happens to be an expired? he is calling a geographical area. he is not targeting a home because it is expired. he is simple calling everyone in the area and i am sure he could prove that.

he is good to go is he not?

Yes, I believe he is fine. He can easily prove that it was not through the MLS system that he was obtaining his call list and that it was a coincidence that he called an expired listing. Now, if he were to start the conversation, "Hi Mr.Homeowner, I see that your property just expired....." then he's in obvious violation. This conversation tonight got me looking at some case law with regards to this topic. There was a case where a rep called an expired listing and stated that they were calling because they had seen that it had expired....problem was, their current agent was sitting at the table with the seller when the call came in. It was also shown that the agent had an abnormally high percentage of listings which had previously expired....busted. lol


BTW, I have no problem answering questions regarding things up here....I have learned a lot about the American system from this board. I have had to Google some of the terms but I'm catching on!

my business plan would be out hte window in Canada.

i would have to use other methods instead of expireds. very interesting to see how other countries work. thanks for the insight. i have done some googling since this thread took a turn. just trying to learn a bit.

If you are curious about real estate in Ontario (I will only speak to Ontario since I am not certain how things are in the other provinces) here is a link to a guide to the legislation that governs us (provincially). This will not include privacy concerns as that is separate legislation (federal).

http://www.reco.on.ca/onlineguide/

MHT

Sorry to see your law makers are as incompetent as ours. Just curious what is the fine, money, loss of license, or both? If a fine and not to much I would do expireds all day long, just a cost of doing business.

i am very quorious. what happened to the agent who worked expireds?

I believe that the fine back a number of years ago for the case that I mentioned was around $8000 and the charge was only through the privacy legislation. I would think that if it continued then 2 things would happen....first, the fines would increase, and 2nd, it would be something that would be referred to the real estate side of things for further discipline. Sorry, but I do not subscribe to the "just a cost of doing business" thoeries. If it is illegal, it is illegal. With the real estate legislation there are many ethics violations that could come with that theory and then it would get beyond just a simple fine however, the punishment should not be the reason to follow the legislation that we are governed by. Just my opinion, you are obviously free to have your own.

could you call with intention to set up an appointment to buy the property? while on the appointment, you could offer your services? just like we have here where agents will buy a property and make improvements and sell the property.

I don't think it's ever a good idea to be deceitful .

i would buy any property in the area that would sell for 70% of market value if they used me in the purchase of their second home.....only up to about 250k for purchase, so there is real validity in the offer.

From what I have been able to find, if you have a buyer (I suppose yourself included) who is interested in actually purchasing the property, it is first recommended to contact the former listing brokerage to see if there happens to be an exclusive listing still in place (as all you know from the MLS system is that there is no longer an MLS listing in place). If there is not, then you could contact the seller to "advise them of the situation and that you are not marketing your services but that you have Clients who may be interested in their home" (quoted from a lawyer who answers questions for our provincial association). So you could contact them but you could not offer your services.

I would say at least 90% of all agents couldn't honestly say this, so I don't think it's a good tactic to promote to the masses!