Nonsense, your information is wrong. Very few top agents use coaching or masterminding or any of this gobbledygook. You're throwing names around like horseshoes, but it's anecdotal garbage and I suspect you know that but feel you have to defend it because you personally believe it.

It's NOT about lead generation, it never was, and it never will be. It's about competence and creativity and excellence and knowledge and experience. The customers flock to agents like that, not to hustlers who jockey dopey scripts from 2-bit losers such as Proctor, Ferry, and all the rest.

Any agent you threw on your list is successful in spite of their Mike Ferry training, not because of it. And agents like this would have been successful anyway because they happen to be talented.

By the way, why are you wasting time on Agents Online spewing Kool Aid when you are supposed to be dialing for dollars? What would Mike Ferry say? And by the way, it is not necessary to write 6 separate diatribes every time I post something.

Shorten it up and make your point. I could take all 6 of your posts and reduce them to about 5 sentences. It's about quality, not quantity...

so will you name any agents..or are you just about theory..cmon..
name anybody successful in real estate you know is winging it...
how do you explain all the sharp 20 year agents leaving the business..
gimme a break...
like i said i know plenty of super smart..broke as hell agents and people..
and the minute you said real estate is not about lead genertation..you lost credibility..
why do YOU mail expireds? or do open houses? shouldnt all the sellers come running to the mighty navarac,
check your ego at the door..its getting old...bro

ou dont even probably know any successful agents..you cant name 1..and im in new jersey just like you..
just name 1 that you know personally doing over 50 deals thats winging it..just 1...
and everybody..reading this..this guy is such a hypocrite..
that he tells you not to lead generate..
just be an expert and they will flock..
but hes doing open houses and mailing expireds...
why isnt he just chilling at home reading..
while all the sellers and expireds and buyers just beat a path to his door...that ego thing is mega old...
and never profitable..

or maybe those agents just had a 4 leaf clover in they back pocket...
or maybe those agents are annointed and chosen by the real estate gods....
or maybe those agents were just born salesman...
or maybe those agents are in hot red hot markets with a billion sales...
or maybe...insert excuse or reason here...
my all this time everybody in business and success was wrong..
you dont need to call people, or a blog, or do open houses or floor time..
you dont have to market yourself or advertise or any of that..

all you have to do is read books get educated...
and then all the buyers and sellers will just come to you...by magic...
very impressive..sir...

Damn Lindenmoe, Navarac hasn't made a peep in here for a couple of weeks, you dig up an old post and make six responses to it. Are you getting some kind of commission from Mike Ferry sign ups? Look up Russell Shaw on line. He does 300+ deals a year and doesn't have a coach or do anything remotely like cold calling. One of the top agents in Atlanta for years did 10-12 transactions a year for over 50 million on her side of the transactions. She was married to the head of a local hospital. The number of transactions don't mean s#!t, its how much you make.

Once again, do whatever the eff you want but stop acting like it's a magic pill. Google Mike Ferry scams and you will see the mobs of agents who couldn't make cold calling work and had to fight the collection companies when they tried to cancel coaching.

hey deepsea,
uuum...i think you read what you want..right...
because i mentioned todd bates..hoss pratt..craig proctor..brian buffini..
and all you heard was mike ferry?...lol
and thats right if i see any of my mentors get attacked by clueless people who never even tried them..i will speak up..
i learned alot from those free hoss pratt calls, and todd bates..
AND MY MAIN MENTOR FOR MY WHOLE 4 YEARs IN REAL ESTATE>>CRAIG PROCTOR..again thats CRAIG PROCTOR...i just started with Mike ferry a couple months ago...
I NEVER prospected anyone till this year...
is that clear now?
THERE IS NO MAGIC PILL...
not Mike ferry..Not Craig proctor..
NOT SEO and BLOGGING..NOT COld calling..Not FARMING with cute lil postcards and recipes
this is about the VALUE of mastermind, mentorship, coaching and getting help from those who are already successful..
ABOUT,..asking for help..
I watched Jay kinder get attacked..and he has provided MASSIVE FREE value..to myself and others..and trust me..there is a bunch of GARBAGE out there being pushed on agents..
right here in this forum..
such as..
be craetive and wing it..
you dont need help just figure it all out yourself..
just get educated and the deals will flow like wine..

that is the real garbage..soooo I take a stand at some point..
I paid for or attended lots of coaches and events..I name the ones I found VALUE..
vcalue meaning they advice put money in my pocket..
I also pay for training and stuff outside the real estate field..
like internet marketing
from Perry Marshall
or business coaching from Dan kennedy
or success coaching from Tony Robbins..
Of course nothing works for everyone...
In fact...people pay for coaching or advice and NEVER do anything ANYONE says..
thats not the fault of the coach or trainer...
you can be coached by michael phelps, or tiger woods or michael jordan..
then your ego says "well I aint listening to them"..

I take exception to Navarac saying..just wing it..or be creative..or even worst generic advice like..
"just go out and get clients everyday"
thats garbage advice...
NO VALUE...ZERO..
tell them..HOw
How to get clients everyday...
say anything..
mail your referrals
target a farm
mail fsbo and expireds..
call center of influence
do open houses
do floor time
something..
but to say..just go get clients everyday?
thats useless..utterly useless
just be creative and wing it?
figure it all out?
whats up with that kinda advice?
if he was blessed to be born a super agent..thats cool...
but how dare you judge others..
who wasnt born a super agent..
who didnt just wake up blessed by the real estate gods..
those of us who need help..
who learn from others...

I study Russell Shaw as well..
did you know that Russell Shaw..
had a background in radio and advertising?
do you know that his listings come from a ultra aggressive
marketing and advertising budget?
did you know he was a copy writer?
Did you know he belongs to a top agent mastermind group..
he didnt just wing it...
hes a massive marketer...
he didnt just learn knowledge and wait for business..
he spends millions on radio..tv and advertising..
I have a copy of his listing presentation..
Its a canned presentation..
all of his agents must use.. CANNED presentation...
his powerful marketing message is..
"YOU dont like me...FIRE Me"
I follow Russell Shaw too...
anybody who is successful..
success leaves clues-Tony Robbins..
Russell Shaw Winging it?
are you kidding me?
Russell Shaw uses a canned listing presentation..ALL his agents MUST use..

and notice how CONGRUENT I AM..
Dan,
you are a successful blogging and seo guy...
i ASKED you for help..and you did..and thank you..
notice..
I didnt try to figure it out on my own
or be creative..
or wing it
or just read bucks made of theory..
I ASKED for your help..right?
I do it all the time..
the main message here is GET some help...
I dont care if you ask for it..beg for it..BUY IT..Pay for it..
Just dont be Egotistical and say "I Dont Need NO help"
its childish immature, dangerous , filled with pride and
can get you hurt ,injured , broke , bankrupt etc..
just figure it all out?
OMG...

Linden,

I was a very happy/succesful camper just going out and knocking
on 100 - 150 doors a day when I needed business. Now I'm super
smart and know everything and have become dumb at the same time. Can't figure it out really. Now I have a large mailling list, investors, renovators, wealthy people, glamous people you name it I have it all. But I'm not as happy as when I was a simple door knock guy. The agents used to call me a "lean mean listing machine" when I really didn't know a heck of a lot. (I shared all my first year
listing with the top 3 agents in my office and learnt from
them, that gave me the confidence to go it alone the following
year). I also studied Mike Ferry for a couple hundred hours.


GUESS I JUST MOVED TOO FAR AWAY FROM THE BASICS.


Sensible Training - A Logical Approach to Size and Strength

by Dr. Ken E. Leistner

Robert Sizer, a former pro-football player, All-American at Richmond University and at one time the most outstanding high school football player in the state of Virginia, was perhaps the first successful athlete in the area to pursue weight training in an attempt to improve his athletic ability at a time that this was believed to make one "musclebound", slow and uncoordinated.

Sizer was an 180lb offensive lineman, that by accounts was stronger and faster than most men weighing 250lbs at the time. At 15 YEARS OF AGE he could squat with 450 lbs (for reps), and bench press 420 lbs.

Sizer trained with a barbell fashioned out of concrete wheels that his father made for him. In the beginning he admitted he didn't really know what he was doing. "All" he did was train hard and brief with heavy weights on the major exercises.

Remarked Sizer:

"Unfortunately, as I became exposed to more people who were involved with training, I left my old methods behind and became bogged down in a progress- stifling method, or more accurately, methods of training...No one showed me how to train; I just went at it like I did everything else, and the hard work on each and every set brought results. But when I saw the other fellows doing things a bit differently, I adopted many of their techniques, not to my benefit".

HE WAS COACHED AND THEN WENT BACKWARDS, GOT WEAKER, MY COMMENT
HUNTER.

hIS FINAL COMMENT.

"If I would have knowN what proper training consisted of, if someone would have been there to show me, I would have taken everything to failure, would have done a few basic exercises and probably would still be playing football. Even at my age." He smiled.

HE KNEW AT 15 WHAT WAS WORKING, HIGH LEVEL COACHING MESSED
HIM UP.

http://www.cyberpump.com/preview/sense.html

hunter ,
ahhh yes the basics...
something i had to learn..
i came from a background in political lobbyist..
i had no basics in real estate..
So i started to ask..even beg..other agents..
when they told me..oh do open houses and floor time..
I got suspicous..because they never did open houses and floor time...
I got lucky and met some successful agents from all that begging for help..
they turned me on to craig proctor, brian buffini, and mike ferry
i just ignored the mike ferry approach for my first 4 years in
the business...
I was making good money from just craig system ..then the market changed..
and I had some issues..
I went back and asked for help from my top agent friends
they turned me on again to mike ferry...
Im grateful..all my friends that I started with in this business are all gone..
both my first and second broker went bankrupt and are out of the business...
Craig proctor, Brian Buffini..and newly added Mike ferry
have all played a role..in me being able to do things other
people my age cannot..
for that im eternally grateful...
also an honorary mention to jay kinder and kindereese..
they helped me figure alot of stuff out..
guess im just some stupid kid from the ghetto
who grew up poor that made good...
I will always be grateful to craig proctor,..and my various mentors..mike ferry, jay kinder..brian buffini..
I could not have figured it out on my own..
using craig system I made ..netted..profit to me..100k
my first year in the business...
I wish i could say i figured it all out myself..
im just not that smart..

I changed my post because I forgot to include that I studied
the Mike Ferry tapes my mom bought for me and I bought
more of them myself and I attended a action workshop.
I was the only guy in my office doing Mike, in those days
you had to speak to 50 people a day FACE TO FACE, then
he made things easier for guys like Lucky who couldn't
handle it.

Mike had no respect for lazy, girly guys who called people
on the phone. He called them all sorts of funny names.

hunter,

lol..that made my day..
Mike likes to abuse us agents..i think I enjoy it as well..
it just that it burns me up..
when somebody just bashes anybody who helped me..
who helped my family so much..
if it didnt work..
dont just bash it..
investigate, tweak it..find out why..
Alot of people online call Craig Proctor, Mike Ferry, and these guys a scam...
but if you dig deeper ..its often..
they never did anything..that they was told to do..
craig advocates..running lil classified ads..
and direct mail...marketing..
but if you dont run any ads..or do anything he says..he a scam..
samething with Mike ferry..
they pay for coaching..
get told what to do..who to call..what to say..
they dont call anybody..and mike ferry a scam?
at what point do we take accountability...
the subject of this post Hoss Pratt..
if he says call these people..and mail them this..
and then you dont call anybody and mail nothing..
he a scam?
my own sister..a new agent..joined mike ferry 2 on 1 coaching..
against my wishes, I told her..first..see if you can even make the calls..
She did nothing her coach told her to do..
she didnt call any fsbo, any expireds, no schedule
refused to take the coaches calls..
because "I dont want them telling me what to do"
would not listen to any of the daily conversations
with the superstars..
guess what? my own lil sister thinks Mike Ferry is a scam..
and thats not fair..she didnt do anything they told her to do..
she resisted every step..and guess what? it didnt work for her
I was never in Mike ferry coaching..
I just follow his teachings and buy his products and go to events
I am very grateful for him..he's no scam..to me...
Matthew ferry and Patrick are both amazing helpful guys..
A famous coach once said..
"the good news is..WE CAnt make You do it...
the bad news is We cant make you do it.. LOL.
I am at Craig Proctor events..the guys having no success
I try to help..
Did you run any ads? no
did you call back the leads? no
did you use a presentation with the buyers and sellers to bring value? no
did you send the postcards or run the ppc ads he gave you? no
did you try the hotline or website you were given FOR FREE for 60 days? NO
Really? But Craig Proctor is the scam?

ironic, a guy who HIDES behind a screen name..who's real name is Marc..)hah..google knows all) calls a guy Craig Proctor who was the #1 agent in the world for Remax International out of 120,000 agents at age 29..a 2 bit loser...
only on the internet folks only on the internet...called a guy jay kinder..the top coldwell banker in his entire state and was realtor mag top 30 under 30 verified.. a loser...
again..omly on the internet folks...only on the internet...

Hey Lindenmoe, I admire your passion. You've convinced me to give Proctor a try. I was teetering, but I'll give it a shot. Thanks

hey Steve,

some tips going in..
do not change the ads..except to make it area specicific
just take his name off put your name on
use the 1800# and the urls websites..you be surprised people still call the 1800 #
dont go crazy..
spend lil..test first..
classified ads..
postcards...
test small..
send out only 1,000 postcards..
this is direct response...you cant get a response with 1,000 you cant get a response
with 100,000
run tiny classifieds in the small local community papers first..
you cant get a response there..you cant get a response in the big papers
and most important use the lead conversion script you are given...
dont be creative..or wing it..or reinvent the wheel..