and i do not meant Planet B--

just in case i am right and BPOS start to dip--reos do not flood the market and Short Sales are the order of the day--
here is a plan..
i kind of thought of this before and i have kind of worked this model before--but today I found a guy who seems to have a way to make money in this market--
now at first i thought it was a little unethical--then i thought it was quite brilliant-if he was doing it the way i thought he was--he was not exactly--never the less--it is still hard work!
so what is it?
here it my version of how to use the market to work short sales-and get all of the pie!
1. find buyers and get them prequalified--if you are good--get some investors in your pocket (that is what i used to do)you can post free adds online to find buyers
2. use your mls or tax office webpage and find preforeclosures--these are people who are dying on the vine.
3. get to knocking on door--you do not even have to list them! everyone wins--the owner has nothing to lose
(this is kind of like that old investor game with the 'lease option' scam-but this will actually work for your owner, buyer and you)
you have your buyer/investors,people need to get out of their home--so,get your short sale cap on and get to work--
you have a qualified buyer and home that is ready to go into foreclosure and a bank who is most likely willing to sell cheap!

now this is not easy--but once you have 5-10 in the pipe line(buyer's and homes)--you can be closing deals every month with 5-7% commission..

i should be selling this stuff huh?
good luck

This isn't new and has mostly been short-circuited by the 90 day rule unless your investor is owner financing to the buyer.

So, your big plan is to find buyers who want to buy and sellers who need to sell and broker a deal between them with an investor making the initial purchase?!? Holy batwings, Batman! Where do I write this stuff down...?

First off, the investor is not needed. Unless, that is, you are intending to take a little money out of the equity there which, of course, you would properly disclose to everyone involved in the transaction. If you are only intending on getting a commission, why even bring an investor into the picture? All an investor does is leach onto the property and bleed money out of it.

Secondly, the sellers don't need to sell. If they are that close to foreclosure, all of the damage is already done. Snake-oil salesmen who prey on unsuspecting owners by using fear as their biggest weapon need to get out of our business.

Thirdly, what says a bank will approve the short sale anyways? Nothing. The owner probably is dealing with a servicer who makes absolutely NO MONEY on a short sale. A servicer has very minimal incentive to allow a short sale to go through.

Other than that, great idea. I don't think that would have crossed anybody's mind at all---putting buyers and sellers together. Man.....just brilliant.

northtxbroker, you gave me a good laugh!!

a couple of things---
1. yes this is not a new way to do real estate –there have been programs like this around for years—just like bpos have been around for years and still realtors ask, "what is a bpo'? so sometimes info/posts are for those who may not have done real estate like this..or may now have thought of doing things this way—I know I do not have all the answers---

now for the more cynic posts..
1. i have deal with investors for years—they can buy and sell a lot of properties--
2. investors have cash--banks like cash—deals close fast with cash--just like a lot of REO agents are selling homes under the radar--TO INVESTORS..
3. there is nothing to say the bank will sale short sales--but with that attitude--nobody would do short sales--heck--nobody would do real estate or sell anything –there is no reason anyone would sell anything ---I have seen people back out of deal all of the time-
4. if someone is in preforeclosure---they could have months left to negotiate and may actually currently be in negotiations for a loan mod--which they may not be able to handle anyway..

so yes it is A WAY to put buyers and sellers together--
here is the difference--
GOOD BUYERS--WITH CASH--TO BUY HOMES CHEAP--FROM BANKS WHO WANT OUT AND YOU GET 4-6% COMMISSION..
i am glad Pheo got a big laugh out of it--i bet the last 2 posters are really raking it in--
hey i have an idea--
WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST IF BPOS AND REOS DO NOT PUT PIG ON THE PLATE LATER THIS YEAR? HUH?
ya---i cannot wait to see what their 'great' ideas will be!
it is easy to be a part of the NO crowd---dealt with them all of my life—some of us just prefer to say HOW!

So yes this does work because people are doing it—
No it is not easy—
No it is not full proof—nothing is--
But if reos and bpos go soft—and a person is not afraid to knock on doors—this is a way to realistically make an extra $50-60k of income..
Or you can walk around your neighborhood and do some farming---see how that works for you!
peace!

Well, MY plan B is to sell merchandise for Beta Pi Omega.

That and I am part owner of a paint striping machine. 1 of 2 in the area. When those parking lots start to fade, the business will flow. At .83 cents per linear foot, I am sitting pretty. Just have to make sureI have enough blue paint for the handicapped spots. Yes, I do have a wheelchair stencil.

If you ever really want any of us on this forum to take you seriously you've got to find a way to make your posts appear as if they weren't typed by a 6-year old. Spell/grammar check usually can help.
Also, try some new ideas, because these certainly are not original and to imply that they are new insults the intelligence of every agent/broker in this forum. Try using that MBA from Internet University to get some creative business thoughts.

lol... I think I'll give my little brothers get rich quick scheme more credit. His was at least creative.

Move to Africa, trade canned goods shipped from my parents in the states for handmade items which he would COD back to my parents for them to sell on Ebay for 3 times the cost of the can of corn + shipping costs of course.

J~

Northtx- LOL

J- Now that's a plan!

If you're an agent and you don't know to put a buyer and seller together in order to broker a deal, you're in the wrong business. BPO/REO is a specialized niche and I wouldn't expect everybody in real estate to know about it. Just like attorneys, doctors, accountants, etc. all specialize in their fields, so do realtors.


And your point is.......? My question to you was why, if you already have an end buyer and you've located a seller, do you even need the investor? You don't--plain and simple. Unless, of course, you are making a little "referral fee" from that investor's cut of the pie...


Banks have cash....banks need to loan cash to qualified buyers....having an owner occupied loan behind a purchase gives legitimacy to the transaction....by the way, I've yet to see a bank reduce their price significantly for a cash deal. Maybe $5K, but that's about all an investor's cash is worth. All an investor is guaranteed to bring is a big head-ache.


No, you don't understand short sales vs. foreclosures then. It's all about making and recouping money. Servicers have contracts to make money on foreclosures--they typically don't on short sales. So, where is their incentive to approve a short sale? Just because they like you and your greedy investor buddy? right...


Ok....so, where is their motivation to sell to you? Just to not deal with the hassle? Wake up---most of these owners want to stay in their property so months of negotiation plus 3-4 months (minimum) for an eviction are good news to them. It's free rent.


yeah, laughing at you...


Sorry, my bpo/reo business doubled last year and I've added some very large new clients at the beginning of this year. About 3 of them actually already. The only people who think that this reo crisis is over is the Obama administration and you. Everybody in the industry sees the writing on the wall. I thought somebody who "slapped down 15-20 Gs a month" with reo/bpo money would know that.


Of course it works---it's called real estate. You are seriously inept. Or, maybe the whiskey got your one last good brain cell. I don't know. But, getting on a real estate website full of experienced agents saying that the next best thing in real estate is to put buyers and sellers together in order to sell properties is nothing short of retarded. All while proclaiming that you're raking in the "dough", the "big ones", the "pig on the plate". Seriously, what kind of self-respecting person talks like that? You want to be taken seriously and given respect on this site? Stop sounding like a 2 am Carlton Sh*ts infomercial.

peace!! moron.

If bPojOes's plan be works out, my plan A will stay intact. All those deals he'll be working will create a huge flood of bpos. This is good news. I can keep the paint machine in moth balls.

Very nice post NTB. However it’s hard to "reason" with someone who is constantly obnoxious and never really contributes any positive vibe to the MB. I just view his as an attention starved troll.

that's very true.

On the Africa thing I know someone who does something similar.

They go to all the biog store sales in GA and buy brand name shoes etc. at 70 percent off and then they have a contact in China where they double their money and that person re-selling in China can still sell it cheaper to their customers than if they bought through regular distribution channels.

They aren't millionaires or anything but she loves shopping and makes a good living at it. I guess there are a zillion ways to make money but I will stick to OLD FAITHFULL real estate.

I was told once that the most expensive real estate is cemetery plots. Doesn't require a RE license, financing isn't an issue as you deffinatly will be paid. No worries about people not wanting to buy due to economy. I don't know there is ever a decline in demand but there is deffinatly times where there is an increase. And I think the timing could be just right for this move as the baby boomers age is coming to a close. Course I don't know you can ethically resale a plot but I'm sure people out there try.

Maybe that should be my Plan B instead of going the Africa route or the purchase of a city block in Detroit for leased parking places.

J~

Amazing stuff Joe.

I never knew that there was such a process as a short sale or "good buyers with cash".

Can't wait to hear plan C.

Or maybe you should write a book ??!!

Keep the great content flowing, this information is very useful.

J-"I was told once that the most expensive real estate is cemetery plots. Doesn't require a RE license"

Actually, to show how 19th Century our laws have become, you DO need a license (issued by the DRE) to sell cemetery plots in the Keystone

wow--some of you posters must be the most genius brains in your own bathroom..

let me ask this from all of these geniuses who have taken some of their 'valuable' time to flame me--
how many short sales did you do last year?
i know that some of you are the best in the world and i know that 99% of the people here make upwards of 1/2 million a year..
i can tell that you are the best and the brightest of all stars and i know i type like a 6 year old..
after all--what do i know..
i can barely break $250 grand income now
but for those who MAY read this forum who ARE NOT of the 'elite' genius pool-this info may benefit you—but for others who again took valuable time to flame me--which BTW is evidence enough of the intellectual giants who post here--because to have this much time and make the money you do--you are truly the envy of the world..

hehehe--funny little monkeys

and for the record—and for those who are less ‘vicious’—
this is NOT about putting buyers and seller together---
this is a way to sell short sales more efficiently and have a greater percentage of success with a higher commission—
but hey—as noted—most posters here are way to smart for that!
OMG
Peace--

wow where do i start? moron? wow--takes one to know one huh? hehehe
now lets begin---
1-this is A WAY to together buyers and sellers---there is more than one way right? and bpos and reos are a niche market? hmmm like rentals? condos? commercial? farms? really? that must make me really good then because i do them all-and for the record—BPOs is not a niche---it is a way for realtors who cannot sale houses to make money!
2.banks don't need cash? really? banks do not negotiate faster with cash buyers on reos and short sale? wow--you must be the smartest person in the world--because even the banks do not know this--they actually like cash buyers---SINCE THEY MOSTLY DO NOT LOANING MONEY ON THEIR OWN LISTINGS---
3.i do not know the difference between short sale and foreclosures...let me try--foreclosure already are for sale by the bank--and a short sale is what THE BANKS WOULD PREFER NOT TO GO INTO FORECLOSURE AND THAT IS WHY THEY ARE MAKING DEALS?
4.uh--i am not asking anyone to sale to ME---i think maybe YOU do not understand short sales..see if a person is looking at potential foreclosure and someone may be able to sale that property via short sale BEFORE--that owner may be motivated--SINCE THERE ARE MILLIONS OF SHORT SALES BEING DONE--MAYBE MORE THAN REOS AND NOW!

and here is my favorite, "of course it works"...HUH? YOU SPENT ALL OF THIS TIME TELLING ME WHY IT WON'T WORK--ONLY TO SUMMARIZE WITH WHY IT DOES?
and i am the moron?
hehehe

oh ya and what kind of 'respectable' person talks like me? maybe someone who calls people a moron?
silly wabbits!

Joy!!! The heavens have opened bpojoe, they truly have! Please shine down your splendid wisdom upon all of us. Please send me another link to another scam of a website. I truly think it will turn me into the ultimate short sale realtor! I've heard realtors with intelligence & maturity akin to that of a 6 year old can really help build my business.

Thank you!!!

edit: I might have been a bit rash with my statement that you behave like a 6 year old. After seeing your poor excuses for jokes, I think you certainly would qualify as a bratty 7 year old.

coming from you--that is the best compliment i have had all day!
and what scam of a website are you talking about? i never sent you any website..
are you one of the people i sent a free bpo book? the one i used to charge for?
if so--that is not my book--i just bought the rights to it--and all of those links are actual reo and bpo companies--but from what i read on this forum--i am not suprised by the lack of gratitute or malicious lies..
peace!
hehehe

I don't know if I would agree with you on the age part. He called us 'funny little monkeys' I think that would qualify him to be a Darwinist and therefore elevate his age to at least 7th grade.

J~

Around these parts, PET cemetery plots are the most lucrative. You sell spaces the size of shoe boxes, basically and can fit a few hundred into an acre. And the individual plot is not terribly expensive so people who are pet lovers don't seem to mind paying.

right. bpos are not a niche market. I guess that's why most agents don't know about them, don't know how to do them, nor do they know what they are for.

I don't agree with that statement at all, but aren't you the blowhard who posted that they make 90% of their income from bpos?

Ah, yes, you were....love the self-deprecating humor....ironic, huh?

Who said this? Why don't you re-read what I posted...

Sorry, I haven't noticed any of my clients negotiate faster with somebody because they are an "all-cash" buyer. By the way, most "cash" buyers are not, but that's another discussion.

Really?!? Really?!? Banks don't loan money on their own listings? Wow....not even going to touch that one. By the way, we're talking about short sales so they wouldn't even be bank listings yet. Another brilliant comment.

Again, proving your ignorance. Banks really prefer homes to not go into foreclosure? Do you realize that most banks that you negotiate with are really servicers and are not the ultimate investor? Do you even know what that means??? Probably not.


Um, again, no, that's not what was said to you. If you are going to get a commission, you're going to have to convince somebody to sell. What possible reason could you give somebody facing foreclosure to sell? Save their credit? Nope, not a chance--credit is already dinged. Walk away with money? They would get more from the CFK offer and rent saved by staying in the home. Make good on their debt? The IRS doesn't even care about that anymore; why should the homeowner? Be able to make another loan purchase? I've seen buyers who were foreclosed on less than 3 years ago making purchases. So, please, tell me why somebody facing foreclosure should sell.


Of course putting buyers and sellers together works---if you read my whole post and didn't understand that is what I was talking about, God help you.

Why don't you put the whiskey down, clear your head, and attempt to answer these simple questions regarding your absolutely, stunningly, brilliant get-rich-quick scheme:

1) Why do you need an investor if you already have an ultimate buyer and a willing seller?
2) Why should a homeowner do a short sale?
3) Why should a bank approve a short sale?

Go ahead. Prove your brilliance.

Barb and J sorry to be a wrench in the works of this business plan, but as Bevis said, Fire, Fire, Heh, heh. Cremation has long been the thorn in the side of cemetary lot real estate.

If you guys want a share of this striping machine bus., let me know.

Tongue in cheek you know.

The amount of money I average on a BPO?
+/- $58 per order

Number of hours I typically work each week?
60

Years I've been a Realtor?
13

Years doing only BPOs?
3

The entertainment value of this thread??
Priceless!!!!!!!!!

Okay, so here's a thought. Do you think that I could get someone to sign an agreement that after the 5 five years in the plot, I could then cremate them and resale the plot as 'Gently used'?

Cause if thats the case, I can make a much better profit and not have to continue to buy more land.

J~

Kinda like a time share. Man that is some out of the box, ha ha, thinking J.
I think you are on to something.

since this has become silly--let me set a couple of thing straight again--
1. i am not a conventional broker and yes since my flat fee business is down--90% of my real estate business is bpos--but not 90% of my income--ok?
2. banks would prefer to do a short sale than go into foreclosure--that is just the way it is--sorry!
3. if you have a secured buyer--short sales are a good place to find good homes at a good price---ONE KIND OF SECURED BUYER IS AN INVESTOR SINCE THEY HAVE CASH---AND IF YOU GET GOOD ONES--YOU CAN BIRD DOG FOR THEM---ok? INVESTORS ARE JUST ONE OF MANY KINDS--GET IT --KINDS OF BUYERS--
if this info is not beneficial to you--great--move on--
if your bps business can sustain you for the next 10 years--God bless
but if some on here would actually like to be prepared in case they cannot be CMA kings for the next decade--here is one option--
there are many ways to do real estate..
rentals, bpos, management, residential, businesses, etc etc..
i am just not confident that bpos and reos can sustain the current amount of realtors who have become dependent on them--

again--what i say is not new nor is it earth shattering--but neither were BPOs but they sure have been popular the last couple of years--

so for those out there who are interested---short sales are a good way to get listings ---investors are a good way to find buyers--ok? better..
now i will start a new thread and let everyone show us the BEST WAY TO FIND BUYERS..since it is obvious i do now know--and everyone else does--i wonder if i will get any responses?

I can't wait until you do!!

Someone should tell this to the banks, and then someone should explain the servicing industry to you. That's just the way it is. Sorry!

Ugghhh, Brad and J move over!! And pass the Cracker Jacks (sorry, I don't like popcorn). This is some great entertainment

all this buyer seller bank mumbo jumbo ... is to much stress

... just give the power ball numbers for this weekend and i'm outta here

Servicing?.......Is that horse talk or loan talk? Come to think of it, it's one of the same.....lol

True. Maybe there isn't enough servicing going on - in every sense of the term.... hehehe...

Gently Used...Time Shares? Thanks for the laugh. You need it in this business!

They pretty much already do this in New Orleans, as I posted in Shooting the Breeze recently. Only it's way less than 5 years, and they just use a roto-tiller to make the room they need...unless it's a crypt and then they have this little pusher tool that just shoves (what's left of) the previous occupant off the back into a common receptacle to make room for the latest occupant.

why don't you explain some of that good ole Texan’ servicin' to me huh?
because what i see here in lil ole Miami--banks are making deals---and reos are actually hard to come by--and you know what else?
banks are even leasing homes back to the owners to keep the homes from being empty--

maybe in Texas, banks must be like the school system--it really 'don't' matter if it works or not—as long as you keep’em movin---“we may be going the wrong way, but at least we are making good time!”
i dare anyone to check their mlses right now...
search reos versus short sales--which is higher? and then compare it to 6 months ago..
proof is in the puddin' --
here in SoFlo--we have to deal with reality--all hat and no cattle crap 'don't' get ya serviced---if you catch my drift!
SOUTH FLORIDA--7869 SHORT SALES AND THEN--READY?
REOS--992---
so you tell me --what do you think the banks are going to do?
silly wabbits-

Uh...The Banks are going to do what is in their best interest? Do I win?

Here on the left coast of FL it is the same type of ratio of short sales to REO for listings and pendings.

However, in the SOLD catagory the split is more 50/50.

I can not tell you how many times I have had to call a short sale listing agent who had a property "Pending" and tell them to remove it from MLS as it has now foreclosed and their listing is no longer valid.

Not a call that I enjoy making because I know that many of them are really counting on the sale but reality is reality.

that is what i have been saying about realtors--they drive me crazy---
they list these homes, then they sit on their hands, do not have access and then expect me to bend over backwards--forget it--
they give crap for info, do not take pendings off--give wrong data-no photos-ahhhh..
I was doing a bpo for a short sale and the realtor said she was pregnant and did not want to go outside and the owner said she had to work and i had to drive an extra 40 miles for her schedule..HUH?
who was this for anyway? the realtor wants commission, the owner wants to stay out of foreclosure and it is up to me to give them the value so THEY can get what they want--AND THEY WANT TO GET TESTY WITH ME?
hey--i have other things to do than to wait around on a bunch of losers to get their act together--OMG
sorry about the vent--
but again--that is why--IF YOU ARE NOT A LAZY SLOB--YOU CAN KILL IN THE SHORT SALE MARKET--FOR THE MERE FACT--MOST OF THE LOSERS OUT THERE--ARE LOSERS AND DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING--if they will actually do anything at all--
good luck over at the pond Grampa!
I hope you are not over near Cape Coral--that place is in bad shape--maybe a few thousand Hatians will come and suck up a bunch of that 'over building'?

I don't know if I could get away with that in Utah though. Religious beliefs that they might need their body would probably have most occupants of this state refuse that agreement. Maybe If I build it close enough to Dugway (Where they destroy nuclear weapons) I could just explain that it is required to remove the body after a certain amount of time due to the radiation. What do you think the possiblity is that I could convience people that if its there more than 3 years it has a chance of becomming a zombie...

J~

I hate to be Capt. Obvious b;pOjoE@#, but what service accompanies the short sale process? It's the Broker Price Opinion. This is the very thing you are fretting over diminishing by creating the thread.

By the way, the Silly Wabbit thing has played. I demand you diminish us in a more creative way. If I am going to stay apart of this, I need some higher entertainment value.

Be fair now Doin'.... Maybe he isn't aware of all the uses of BPO's.

PMI releases
Short Sales
Loan Modifications
Forclosures
Due Dillagence
REO properties
Property Damages by Natural disasters
Insurance verifications
Note Trades.

If I were to make a guess, I would bet that after all the loan fraud that went on that caused our current mess, lenders will probably be more likely to order BPO's to ensure the origination appraisal is on target before they lend on a property. But I just work with the lenders so what would I know.

J~

I agree 100%. BPOs are an inexpensive way to have a checks and balance system on appraisals. Appraisers may not like that and if so, they can relocate to states where BPOs are illegal as far as I'm concerned.

Hey, bpojoe, here are the questions:


and here are your answers....at least the only ones I can find.


Your response to questions 1 and 3 are complete and utter lazy bs. You didn't answer my second question, but gave a nice example of the low motivation short sellers have which goes nicely with what I've said.

What's really interesting is that there's an 8:1 ratio (by your numbers) of short sale to reo listings in your MLS. Then, you admit/agree that it's about 50:50 in terms of sales. Maybe it's different in your world, but I only get paid for closings. Somewhere in your short sale process, your area is obviously having a hard time closing. I would bet if you knew the difference between a servicer, bank, and investor as well as all of their different motivations, you would have the answer to that little quandary. Until you can wrap your miniature brain around those topics, you really should stop belittling the other agents on this forum who know what they are, know what they do, and know what the difference between them is. Arrogance coupled with ignorance is a very dangerous combination.

And doin'bpose really had a nice point. The more short sale listings there are, the more BPOs will be ordered. Not just once, but twice. Once as a short sale and the second time as an REO. After all, if the ratio of short sale sales to reo sales in your area is even, approximately 88%, at least, of your short sale listings aren't selling (you can do the math...or at least should be able to). Should keep BPO agents in your area busy for quite a while.

And, if 88% of those short sale listings aren't selling, either one of three things is going to happen. 1, the owner has gotten the payments caught up. That's very unlikely because if they could catch up, they wouldn't have gotten behind. Plus, the fees get outrageous. 2, A loan modification is going to happen. Most government estimates say that about 10% of ELIGIBLE borrowers have had their loans modded in 2009. Out of that 10%, 25% have already re-defaulted and up to 75% are expected to re-default. So, somewhere from 2.5% to 7.5% of ELIGIBLE borrowers are having successful loan mods. Not good odds. 3, the home is going into foreclosure and will become a REO listing. You unwittingly helped prove the theory that you are railing against. Ironic.....silly wabbit.

Very strong points J. I think if the agent could have been eliminated from the process, it would have been done by now. It is hard to envision a scenario where the agent is not needed in the process. I am not a polly anna on this, and never toss all my eggs in one basket, but I have done orders for 10 years now. I spent a lot of time sweating this issue-but the bottom line is this. This is a valuable service which has a steady strong, consistant and diverse source of demand.

That's what I'm hoping for. As well as your last point, the note trades. When the capital market thaws, we could see an avalanche of BPOS.

Well unlike an agent, my eggs are all in one basket. This has been my career for the last 7 years. Thats the great thing about BPO's. Good market/Bad Market - no impact except for the type of BPO that is ordered.

J~

burp! excuse me - too much diet caffeine free coke & popcorn.

Good sense of humor on both sides showing but I should remind everyone 'not to make it or take it personal'. OK rules say don't make it personal, I added the don't take personal No name calling either - unless of course that is the person's name.

I'm kind of sad and kind of glad - that the sister thread of 'how to find buyers'; will need to be located in a different forum

i think people take things way to personally here--but it is funny..you should only feel 'diminished' if you are a sucky realtor who does crappy work--otherwise--what I say should not bother you--
if you actually do your job--you would more than likely agree with me--on some things?!?

But, i do want to again reiterate why i made this post..

i hope it sticks this time..


i personally do not think there will be enough BPO and REO business to keep ALL REALTORS fed by year’s end--
things change--
and i was just saying--if things do change--like they tend to do--and BPOs are not being the 'flavor O de month'---there seems to be a lot of short sales and very few competent realtors who can do them..so to those realtors who can do something more than a CMA -this is a wide open market--
any moron can do a BPO as seen by the current bulk of realtors doing them now--these are people who really don't know anything about the market, little about real estate and even little about the mls--but they can take a photo and fill in the blanks--or at least have their family or assistants fill in the blanks--

again--i could be wrong..
maybe every hack with a real estate license in America can continue make 6 figures doing BPOs and the market will continue to tank to the point where TRAILER TRASH will be a move up---i am just not convinced---
i have seen to many things change too fast---to often
peace—
you rascals--hehehe


but i just want to ask honesty--do you have more or less BPOs so far this year?
in 3-6 months--we will see who is the 'silly wabbit'--i have a feeling-

By your own admission, about 88% of short sales listed in your area do NOT sell. Why would you want to do the work, especially the extra work for a short sale, when you have an 88% chance of not selling? Just curious.


You can't judge what the whole year is going to be like from the first 3 weeks of January. Especially when December and January are historically slower months. You have not provided one ounce of coherent logic to support your theory that BPOs and REOs are going to slow down. In fact, you've unwittingly done the exact opposite. Maybe you should start by thinking about the questions I asked and see if you can provide a logical answer to them.

what ever people---enjoy your bpos and reos---
but if they drop by 10-20-50% by the end of the year--don't cry--
but if you stay the same or get more--then i am the fool--
what is the big deal--

i bet all of you have less bpos this month than you did this time last year--and i bet the same will be in Feb and March--
maybe not much--but i bet at least 10%

now again--I AM NOT SAYING BPOS WILL GO AWAY--JUST THAT THEY WILL DECLINE AND IF YOU WANT TO COMPENSATE FOR THAT 10-40% DROP IN WAGES--DO A COUPLE OF SHORT SALES---

OMG--we will come back next month and see if you have not dropped 10% again!

proof is in da puddin'
dream on tiny dancers--may all of your bpo dreams come true--
i am just climbing out of that proverbial cave to get some sunlight--enjoy all of them eggs, sitting in your basket --may they stay fresh forver!

and broxer--i have no idea what you are talking about-nothing you say resembles anything I have said so i cannot respond to the same crap over and over-you posts are ramblings about what YOU think but nothing about what i have said--my posts are rambling about what i think-so there--i will bet anything you were telling people to buy in 2006 and probably had a bunch of made up stats---bottom line--
be prepared--or dont--but don't cry if you are not!

Joe it’s the whole Ying/Yang thing. If the volume of BPOs declines then less people will be doing them. Also if the amount of BPOs goes down couldn't that be an indication of an improved housing market? There again that means that less agents will being doing $50 BPOs and more chasing the several thousand dollar commission check.

It’s all a perspective issue. Kind of like one person saying that a piece a paper is 8 1/2 inches wide and the other adamantly arguing that same piece of paper is 11 inches long.

The only question I am now left asking myself is, “Why am I trying to reason with you?”

just like this--where did i say anything about short sales NOT SELLING? where? i actually have said that SHORT SALES ARE OUT SELLING REOS--i have not said 88% of anything--maybe i should say that 88% of what you post has nothing to do with what you respond to..

LET ME AGAIN -SAY THIS--I WOULD PUT THIS IN CRAYOLA AND MAYBE THAT WOULD HELP--BUT I CANNOT--
REOS ARE NOT THE MARKET SHARE THAT THEY WERE 6 MONTHS AGO--
SHORT SALES ARE SELLING MUCH FASTER DUE TO BANKS WILLING TO NEGOTIATE--AND THERE ARE A LOT OF SHORT SALE OUT THERE--THAT ARE READY AND WILLING TO BE SOLD--YES TO BE SOLD--
SHORT SALES ARE A BETTER VALUE DUE TO THEM BEING IN BETTER CONDITION--
SHORT SALES CAN BE PURCHASED CHEAPER THAN REOS MAKING THEM GOOD FOR POTENTIAL BUYERS--
SHORT SALES DO SALE--THEY ARE SELLING--
SHORT SALES ARE MUCH MORE AVAILABLE THAN REOS--
and still --fair market value homes have 3 times the amount than either short sales and reos--

but if YOU guys are right? here is a scenerio-
banks will hire in house appraisers to clear out bad debt properties--no need for bpos-
people cannot buy homes so --there is no need for bpos-
so in YOUR case--bpos will not be necessary!

banks have been thinking for years to staff their own real estate teams--it is cheaper and it is salary and they can get quality educated people!
but 2 things are for sure--
1.what you guys post responding to me--has nothing to do with my actual posts..
2. things are going to change and those who do not adapt-die

pBOjEO, I used the phrase 'demand you diminish us' sarcastically. Reread my post for the flavor and nuance you missed the first time.

Having trouble breaking free from the silly wabbit pejorative? I saw you gave rascal a whirl. It is weak, but I appreciate the effort.

On point, you reminded us your entire theory is based on a guess of what will happen in the future, namely that BPO volume will decline precipitously. I do not even see your guess as a forecast. You base it on nothing. You have no barometer for this assertion.
But if it does come to be-good for you. You'll have your new system in place. Which will....as I said, generate more orders.

Maybe your dropping 10% every month because of performance issues... So far january has been lot better than last year, and dec i did triple than 08... And I know for a fact bpos and reos are gonna be strong this year..... If your business is declining and you been doing this for a long time that means theres something wrong with you not bpo/reo business....

let me again speak from experience and not some lala land--

i did flat fee real estate--
1.when i did them i got 300-400 dollars a listing-
2. due to my great marketing-soon many realtors found out how easy this was and began to compete—very similar to the easy money in BPO's
3. soon guys were doing flat fees for $50 and guys like me and other big companies lost 100's of thousands of dollars due to oversaturation and the market crashing-
right now i am losing $30,000 a month -
already bpo companies have gone for $100 to $35 just in last few years--
how many of you will continue to do bpos when they go to $20?
i will not list homes for $50, and I will not do a bpo for $20--so the BPO market 'niche' may dry up for me just as flat fees did—and trust me—I made a lot more from flat fees!
now as far as trying to 'reason' with me--i really do not care-
i only speak from actual experience and what i have witnessed first hand--
lets hope that BPO's do not have the same trajectory as ever other fast moving, low expectation, easy money real estate product—a fireball downward catering to the lowest common denominator!

well scorp--i would agree and i have thought about that--so i checked..
and i am one of the top scoring brokers in my area with the companies i work with and many times i am the top...
and they have also told me that things are slow..
but i bet you a nickle--90% of others are slow too (anyone doing more than 40 a month that is)---what do you say to them?
but i appreciate the concern--i hope you make a million in bpos this year!
peace--

Joey - have you gone back and read past threads on the future and past history of REO and BPO and business cycles here in the forum? I really don't think so.

You have not really brought up anything new that I can see or any more we need to be concerned about other then the typical cycles in real estate that have been with us for a long time.

But hey, this is your dog and pony show, you go ahead and ride it out

You might also give statistical data and the source to back up your assertions, your numbers look made up and certainly not indicative of my market, which is why we say real estate is local .

Just curious Joe - how long have you been a licensed RE Agent - just so we get some perspective?

17 days into the new year, I am up 45% in BPO volume. I still work my SOI and continue to tweak my business plan. My eggs are in many different baskets because I like variety in my day. I don't see my BPO or REO business declining this year.
I Do agree that to count on any ONE aspect of this business can be foolish and short sales in my market are dominant and here to stay for awhile. I have handled a few and maybe I need some more training in that area.

I think flat fee listings lost favor since people thought they needed full service expertise to get the sale done. I don't work in this area, but that would be my guess. I can see why you are sensitive to change though if that happened to you.

Drive bys have not made the drop from 100 to 35 as you say. There has been a drop, but you used the extremes. THe average drop has probably gone from 58 to about 53. It may go lower, it may stay the same, it may go higher.

been licensed since 2000--licensed currently in 2 states as a broker
been doing residental and commerical management since 1993-

am i qualified?

I have no idea if you're qualified for anything Joe - but your entry as an agent in 2000 offers a little perspective, thanks

Companies tell you it is slow, even if it is not. And they always tell you that everything is fine with your profile, even if it is not. Sounds like you may have performance issues and these companies are giving you stock answers to avoid confrontation.

Also, it is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE to gauge the BPO business by agents numbers. There are far too many variables to make any statistical analysis possible on the agent level. Anyone with any business knowledge can figure that out.

I know some agents that have their license less than a year and already doing better than 20 year licensed brokers... In this business you make what you want to make.... like I said before in this biz you need to be have skills, patience and the motivation to learn something new everyday....

Over ten years ago when I was first licensed, there was an agent in the office who, every once in a blue moon, became involved with something called a “broker price opinion”. This particular agent was also extremely fearful of an actual real estate transaction and rarely sold or cobroked anything unless forced to do so. Therefore, he did not actually know much about the market, but presumably, the BPOs he did didn’t require all that very much market knowledge. Then things changed about two years ago. He no longer could do BPOs. They had become much more involved, and he was not up to the new challenge. And too, the pay for BPOs had telescoped. What he would usually make for one BPO now would take 3 or 4 BPOs. And so, years ago, BPOs were “casual”, somewhat rare (in my market) and now they are not.

Taking that evolution further, I can anticipate that the BPO “niche market” is going to change even further— to the extent of who can do them and who cannot, and not by personal choice. Looking at the appraisal industry’s lobbying to curtail BPOs, the NAR’s strange quasi support of their concerns, the continued revamping of BPO forms that’s turning them into mini-appraisals (far beyond the scope of the original BPO product), making them not an opinion, but a qualifiable, quantifiable technical instrument of valuation based on numbers, percentages, fine adjustments, etc., and the proverbial writing is on the wall. I.e., providers of this product will be regulated either via another $$ NAR designation and/or other means. The un-named agent I worked with self-regulated himself. He recognized his limitations and quit. Others did not. I believe that will change. While the majority of the forum members could not be characterized similarly to this agent, we may all be able to agree that agents like him do exist. Many here see “his” work on priors routinely.

And with that change (which the OP senses but cannot control his exuberance to focus well enough to identify), I agree that BPOs may no longer be the money-making “niche” for many agents that it is now. However, I completely disagree with the OP that BPOs will decrease. In fact, I believe they will increase in volume AND in complexity AND in liability. I believe they no longer are and never will be future defensible by the “this is just an opinion” caveat. BECAUSE, inexorably, BPOs are requiring solid cross-referenced “facts”, numbers and data in fields, and externally obtained supportive information that, in and of themselves, MUST deem value. They are no longer an opinion.

I also believe that the “broker” in broker price opinion will be a mandatory requisite. That will be a mis-step in that many brokers are too busy to do BPOs, but it will be a first step, a bone thrown to the appraisal industry, and a comfort to the end-users of BPOs—who most probably will also devise expensive certification(s) as another “quality assurance” layer. Because they can. And if they’re going to continue to devise even more complicated valuation products, they probably should. And then they had better have TATs of 10 days or more because their pool of providers will shrink. Something has to give. And that will be nice. But don’t expect fees to rise. Because we will still allow them to do the impossible—have their cake and eat it too.

So, I do feel that more than likely the BPO business of some agents will decrease or may be eliminated altogether. But not for the fuzzy-logic fuzzy wabbit wool-gathering stream of consciousness loose association non-reasons of the OP.

*grabs popcorn* this is a great debate.

One of my goals for this year is to get my broker's license so I have more freedom to control what I do and who I do it for.

I am not too worried about the BPO market changing. Here, we have not even come close to hitting some sort of bottom. In SW Oklahoma, we do not have the numbers so many of you do, but that's okay with me. I do BPOs because I have fun doing them. If they stop being fun, I will do something else. Yes, I also list & sell, and that part of the biz has been slow for awhile now, tho' will likely pick up this year.

My plan B is to keep growing my rental property ownership & management (only manage my own, and that's the way I want to keep it).

I think all agents should have the right training and take some form of exam in order to start doing bpos... Its amazing how many reassign bpos i get from other realtors. That makes all of us look bad. for one everyone pays right? I think instead of agents try to find out how to get good bpo companies to work for They should try to find out how to get the right training and how to become more experience in this biz After that trust me bpo companies will come to u.... and our bpo biz will be stronger than ever....

< cough cough > ...seriously, how well did the state license prepare you to walk through a home and determine red flags or what inspections should be done, what lender programs are available and beneficial to a client, how to negotiate a contract, how to market a property, etc. etc. Why would bpo's for $50 bring in such grand training? Unfortunately, at least in California, my opinion is that state requirements vs. your job duties/liabilities once licensed , have never matched up.

Here, the basic course 'more-or-less' prepares you to sit for the licensing exam - depending on the quality of class instructor you have. Then you have to learn to do your job as a Realtor at the company you go to work for. That's why it's key to pick a company that offers some training.

As for learning how to do bpos, FARVV's 4 online training segments are pretty good, even when doing work for other companies (imo). I took them and I've used the info and I only get QC'd occasionally by anyone.

Ahhhhh, DD's way with words is just what this forum has been missing for months!

"companies tell you it's slow".....AKA: Canned Chatter.

I will always have 4 or 5 different options to select from.....never, never just have one leg to fall back on, especially in todays market. I've found, by putting all your eggs in one basket, is the easiest way to fail.......I could have, should have, would have, attitude just doesn't seem to pay the bills....just my two cents.

Eggs in 1 basket thing would work if you had a transition fund. If you knew you could crash and burn, but had 9 months of cash to fall back on and pick yourself up, then you could make the case to me. And if you had no family to support you could practice business in a riskier way, always thinking of the next move. Fire this gig hard and clean up while you can. When/if the party ends, you fall back on your rainy day fund and shift into something new.

This is not me, but I could see this working for someone.

And nicely written Due Diligence.

Hmmm....how about this conversation?



Seems to me that you agreed with that assessment. So, by some simple math, you said that about 88% of your short sales are NOT closing.


Not my experience. REOs are in similar condition to many short sales. Many of my REO sales in the last 6 months have gone FHA.


Not my experience. REOs are selling cheaper than, or at similar prices to, short sales here.


Your numbers:

Short sale listings: 7869
REO listings: 992
REO to Short Sale sales ratio: 50:50
Maximum number of REO sales: 992
Maximum number of Short Sale sales: 992 (because of the ratio)
Probability of a REO selling: 100%
Probability of a Short Sale selling prior to foreclosure: 12.6%

The conclusion is obvious....short sales are not closing.


Why would a bank do this when they can pay $125 for a BPO or even $350-$400 for an appraisal? Maybe you missed the mass layoffs that happened.


I've never done a BPO for a purchase. Here's J's list for why BPOs are ordered:

PMI releases
Short Sales
Loan Modifications
Foreclosures
Due Diligence
REO properties
Property Damages by Natural disasters
Insurance verifications
Note Trades.


Might want to check with Congress and NAR about the legality of that. Hint--if it was legal, it would have happened already....


Ignorance is bliss. By the way, you STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED my questions to your original post.


The master of the obvious strikes again.

My BPOs increased by 20% last year. REO sales were steady despite the fact that there were no/minimal foreclosures in my area in the first 6 months of last year.

Lots of agents make a living doing bpos, and by the way i dont do bpos for $50 I

I do it for $40 lol

This is just my personal opinion guys i just think we should be trained before doing our first bpo... companies like farvv requires you to have training... In order to get more business with eml they require agents to be napbob certified... (and the nabpop exam is not a walk in the park). All im saying is our business is growing and eventually somethings are gonna change...

Well, if the BPO business is dying, it's not evident in my personal statistics. BPO income up about 15K in 2009 vs 2008; December 09 up 32% over December 2008; January 2010 has already passed January 2009.

Most of my eggs are in this particular basket right now, but that doesn't mean it has to stay that way. A well-rounded agent/broker can move with the market. Fair market sales and listings are always an alternative, when that segment picks back up again.

We have to give DD due praise for the well expressed and thought out scenario, of which I agree with in part.

What I don't see happening now is that BPOs are becoming more like appraisals, more superfluous data required for sure, but not the same valuation modeling used. (Granted there are many poorly conceived forms and companies) What happened after the Savings and Loan crisis is similar to what we are now digging out of, so I see the end results perhaps being that loan guidelines being enforced and perhaps tightened, and the use of other instruments of valuations of assets becoming more and more an AVM, perhaps to where agents only verify and/or input data, and probably for far less then even our current rates. This might take a few years - or it might come more quickly. A factor I hate to mention that will speed up this process resides with which political party has control, as it stands now, it is not looking good

As far as needing to be a broker in the future to do appraisals - I see it that way now. In the states I am familiar with, a non broker agent needs to work under the supervision of a BIC in order to have their license active. So, whether the BIC is actually supervising their agent doing a bpo or not, I would generally think they would be responsible any action of the agent under them where it relates to real estate, bpo included.

Education to perform bpos better, I don't want to pop anyone's balloons, but there really isn't any education you can get that will give you the experience needed to actually prepare a green agent to do bpo work without supervision. I have completed most classes and even pointed out mistakes to some schools in their information, which is the reason more then any that I do not generally use the alphabet soup that comes with them.

Stating the obvious - our industry is changing, and in my opinion faster now then anytime in the past. With technology that already exists, data bases already created, we are making a living on borrowed time. IMNSHO, this will affect general real estate as much as our niche. If you want to keep earning a living with real estate, be flexible, studious, observant and tenacious and accept change.

I see investing, management, partnerships, buying low and selling high, as staples for us. Look at any real estate deal - what are the basic fundamentals that simply cannot be changed and what are the areas that 'could be' - base your decisions on that.

Anyway we slice it - things will change and as the many other threads here about the same thing show, there are as many opinions as to what the future brings as there are people willing to post.

Make hay while the sun shines (Nellie)

So I found out recently that in my state you can't have revolving burrial plots. Any ideas for a new plan B? I've thought about doing DE for agents but I'd have to find enough agents that are willing to pay by paypal to make it profitable for me and I'm not sure I can compete with our friend from india as his cost of living isn't as high as mine.

J~

Welcome to the second semester of BPO 101A. With companies constantly adjusting the price downwards on our fee, you may have a tough nut to crack. If you buy into the concept of "but, you can make it up in volume", it might work. Best of luck, J~.

cliffnotes please.

Okay so back to the drawing board for Plan B. I posted a while back that I'm looking at getting my sales agents license but what I'm looking for is a RE company in the Salt Lake Valley that would be interested in picking up an assistant so that I can get a feel for the company. My regular QC work is slow right now and I'm looking to transition into being a sales agent. Figured this might be a good step. If you guys have any feedback I'd appreciate it or if by chance you know someone that has a Sales office in my area looking for this type of work I'd also appreciate a PM.

Thanks so much! You guys are wonderful as always,

J~

I have 2 friends in the Salt Lake City area. They specialize in REOs I'll PM you.