Just purchased a 12 year old, 2,100 square foot home. As part of the deal, we got a $2,200 credit to resurface the hardwood floors (approximately 800 square feet).

After closing, we had a contractor refinish the floor. But soon found that what we thought was “hardwood” flooring is actually “engineered hardwood” flooring.

The listing for the property clearly stated “hardwood floors thru out lower level”. And at no time did our agent (who is also the listing agent) ever mention anything about engineered hardwood, even when we noticed that the floor would need to be sanded and re-varnished.

I’ve since done a bit of research on solid vs. engineered flooring and understand there are plusses and minuses to each type. But it is clear that engineered flooring has a much shorter lifespan than sold hardwood flooring. As a result, a twelve year old engineered floor is worth far less than a solid wood floor.

I feel cheated or at least misled.

What recourse options do I have?

Thanks,

It doesn't sound as if they misrepresented the flooring at all. Hardwood flooring is still hardwood flooring, whether engineered or solid.

Is it possible the contractor is trying to sell you a whole new floor when the one you have is just fine?

Did the $2,200 take care of the resurfacing? If it did, why would you want to seek recourse?

Just curious about the real reason you're unhappy.

Linda

I do not see where the flooring has been misrepresented here. If there is a significant difference between engeneered hardwood floors and solid hardwood floors and it was of a concearn to you, it should have been investigated prior to Closing.
As an agent walks into a property that had wood flooring installed 12 years ago and notes the wood floors, they have no way to know what type of wood it is without an inspection which costs money and is up to the buyer to perform at their discretion.
I would also agree that if the $2,200 took care of the resurfacing and sealing of the floor that there is not an issue anyway. They did exactly what they said they would do when they said they would do it per your mutual agreement.

Here is a helpful link.

In some situations engineered is better because of moisture and heat issues 100 percent hardwood cannot handle.

I agree laminate look scrappy and have never liked it.

You might find engineered is called for in your situation.

http://www.builddirect.com/Engineered-Hardwood-Floors/Engineered-Hardwood-Flooring-FAQ_8804.aspx

AllREO, engineered hardwood floor is not hardwood. It only has a thin veneer of hardwood laminated to plywood. If you ask for hardwood flooring at your local Home Depot, they will show you solid flooring, not engineered flooring, although they may tell you about the options.

The real reason I'm unhappy? Engineered hardwood has a significantly shorter lifespan than hardwood. In ten to fifteen years, this flooring will probably need to be replaced. Hardwood would last for the rest of my life. As a result, if I want to sell in 10 years, the engineered hardwood will detract from the home's value because it will be all used up.

Bsa, I had never heard of engineered flooring. This is my first house.

You're right, the $2,200 took care of resurfacing. But that was never the issue. The problem is that 10 years down the road, the floor may need to be replaced because it cannot be resurfaced a second time.

Super, thanks for the link. But as I indicated originally, I've already researched the differences. In my area, and for my application, the only reason someone would choose engineered hardwood is because it is cheaper.

So, it sounds like the general consensus is that it’s OK to pass engineered hardwood floors off as hardwood floors. Is that correct? As an agent, would you not disclose this to your client? Or feel obligated to disclose this in a listing?

And finally, how would you feel if this happened to you?

As an agent I might not even know the difference by looking at the floor. I'm not a hardwood expert. Though I do correct people when the say "Ooh, look at the nice hardwood floor" when in fact, it's laminate (Pergo). I will say "No, this is a laminate, like Pergo." But I have never seen "engineered hardwood" and can't say that I'd know the difference.

Should it be disclosed? Absolutely! Absolutely! Absolutely! But as an agent I can't disclose what I don't know - it is up to the seller, and for all we know the seller didn't know the difference either (depending on if the seller was the original owner/builder).

I know that some people who build their own homes don't even know what's in them. My cousin was showing me through her new home and said "And look at my beautiful oak doors!" for their bedrooms. My husband burst out laughing and said "These are pine, not oak!" and even when we showed them the difference between oak and pine, they could not see the difference - to them it was just "wood." I'm certain that they PAID for OAK, but got PINE and they would not believe us -- I highly doubt that they went back to their builder and demanded an explanation because "the builder said it was oak" and they did not believe my husband (also a builder.)

It's possible that the seller didn't know. The seller could very well have paid for hardwood flooring and got screwed by their builder.

I just pulled a floor register up in a house about an hour ago to see if the hardwood floor was real wood or engineered for an interested buyer. There are ways to find out.

Just because the seller and/or their agent did not know it was actually engineered flooring does not limit their liability. Negligence and ignorance is not a valid excuse. If they did not know for sure they should not have advertised it one way or the other.

Get some estimates and if the difference in the 2 types of flooring is substantial talk to a lawyer.

Either way, file a complaint with the state licensing authority
http://www.dre.ca.gov/
and don't waste your time filing a complaint with the realtor association or MLS, they are a waste of time.

Well I have to respectfully disagree here. In CA maybe it's different but in Georgia we have what is called a buyers "right to their own inquiry"

It is not the brokers/agents responsibility to know adverse material facts about a property. If the seller tells you then disclose. I don't purport to be a builder,surveyor,home inspector,etc,etc. My answer is always the same to the buyer."If you have questions and need answers use the appropriate expert for that field"

What buyers really want you to do is overstep your boundaries so they can BLAME YOU later for telling them it was a certain way. The truth is buyers are too cheap to pay for answers to their questions. We have disclaimers in our mls and on flyers,contracts etc. that WE ARE NOT experts when it relates to insert over 100 different professions,etc.Also we have on every page "Information deemed to be reliable but not guaranteed"

If a seller is selling as-is it is up to the buyer to get an inspection. If the seller truthfully fills out a sellers disclosure property report and the buyer had a question but was to cheap to spend the money to get it inspected then a judge will throw the case out of court.

Buyers cannot not have due diligence to their questions and then later on want to be compensated for ignorance.Good luck with that position as you will be laughed out of court.

In my state the real estate commission cares about license laws and nothing else and ethics do not apply. Monetary issues are filed in a civil court and have nothing to do with the real estate commission. Our real estate commission does not touch broker/agent commission disputes,litigation as those are for court. Ethics would be your local real estate board if the brokerage and agent are REALTORS.

I don't know why you are so bent out of shape on this as most buyers (80 percent)move every 3 to 5 years anyways.

You will have a very hard time proving an agent knew it was engineered versus 100 percent hardwood.

How much sq ft of floor space for the wood are we talking about anyways??

no legal advice

It doesn't matter if the listing agent knew it was engineered or not. What matters is the listing agent advertised something that was wrong and as a result the buyer was damaged. Ignorance is not a valid excuse. The NC real estate commission calls it negligent representation.

When the listing agent made that claim they took on the authority that they knew what the flooring was. If an agent doesn't know for sure they should keep their mouth shut. Any agent who goes on the word of their seller deserves to loose their license.

The MLS disclaimers are about as useless as all of the other disclaimers we use if we are not truthful.

http://www.agentsonline.net/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/318306/Re_Inspector_has_to_pay_award_.html

There are no "floor registers" around here that I know of. We're lucky if the house records even have square footage listed, let alone something so specific as what type of flooring. Furthermore, what good would a "floor register" do if the seller was led to believe it was real hardwood and that's how it was "registered?"

Even the tax record of square footage is unreliable - I think the only way one could know for sure is to hire a flooring expert. And in order to sue, you'd have to prove that the seller and agent knew it was engineered and not hardwood.

Floor register = heating vent. Pull it out of the floor and you can see what sort of flooring there is by seeing the side view of the flooring. It is a good way to see if there is original hardwood under the carpet.

LOL - ahhh, I thought there was some database somewhere. Duh!

OK, so how many of you would just pull up a heating vent unless the buyer asked you to?

I do it all the time when there is carpet (unless it is a newer home) to see if there is hardwood underneath. Would I pull it out to check to see if the hardwood was solid vs engineered? Um, I'll plead the 5th (I believe that's what you guys do to not incriminate yourselves in the states? lol). I would not bother pulling it out to see if it was hardwood vs laminate because the difference in those 2 is usually obvious. IMO engineered hardwood IS hardwood....if it was advertised as SOLID hardwood then I think there would be an issue. If I had a buyer who insisted on solid hardwood over engineered hardwood, then yes, I would be checking.

^My point being it would be up to the buyer to initiate an investigation.

And yeah, if someone asked if there was hardwood underneath carpet, it would be a good way to check...

This of course only works with homes featuring forced air....