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#132169 - 04/01/07 03:12 PM Re: Keller Williams vs. Century 21 - pro's/con's ? ***** [Re: Greg in PDX]
Kelingdun Offline
Member

Registered: 10/25/06
Posts: 119
Loc: Santa Clara, California

"who is leading the race for best real estate brand".
Good read and relavent to the topic discussed.

http://www.rismedia.com/wp/2007-03-31/who-is-leading-the-race-for-best-real-estate-brand-2/

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#132195 - 04/01/07 06:15 PM Re: Keller Williams vs. Century 21 - pro's/con's ? [Re: Kelingdun]
JoeyBagadonuts Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: 06/24/06
Posts: 1074
Loc: Bucks County PA
I know each franchise has its different USP. And the logo has little to do with how a broker/agent runs their individual office/business.

C21 is the biggest indeed.

Keller Williams is the fastest growing and there are some reasons why.

A few years ago, I hadn't even seen a KW sign around here. Now they are everywhere. It's like an ameoba.
_________________________
Joseph Grabowski, REALTOR®
Keller Williams Preferred Real Estate – Yardley, PA
Buying or selling a home, land, or real estate in Bucks County Pennsylvania?
Visit my Bucks County Homes & Real Estate Website

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#132213 - 04/01/07 08:53 PM Re: Keller Williams vs. Century 21 - pro's/con's ? [Re: Kelingdun]
Paceryder Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: 05/14/05
Posts: 944
Loc: The Milky Way
Originally Posted By: Kelingdun

"who is leading the race for best real estate brand".
Good read and relavent to the topic discussed.

http://www.rismedia.com/wp/2007-03-31/who-is-leading-the-race-for-best-real-estate-brand-2/


Interesting article, but I think "biggest" and "most recognizable" is a regional thing. Where I am certain brands, such as C21 and Remax, are seen as being like the MacDonalds or WalMart of R.E. Whereas companies you wouldn't think of elsewhere, such as Cororan and Sothebys, have more of a cachet to them.

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#133389 - 04/06/07 07:37 PM Re: Keller Williams vs. Century 21 - pro's/con's ? [Re: Paceryder]
northidaho Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/06
Posts: 53
Loc: North Idaho
I'll pipe in, I'm not with either C21 or KW. From a business perspective, KW (as a whole) is more agent-centric. If your business goals include building a business of your own and not for a broker, than KW is the direction you want to go. If your business goals are such that you want to be a good agent, but pretty much work without a team, and you don't care about the agent focus, than C21 may work for you.

I attended the KW conference solely because there wasn't a single other conference available that was offering classes that were relevant to building a solid business, with a single model and all training you take is focused on achieving that model. In other words, I'm tired of going to all of the Craig Proctor, Brian Buffini, etc. things only to have to then figure out how each 'new idea' can be applied to the focus I want on my business. Instead, I want things I simply have to plug in. I don't want to re-invent the wheel, nor change the alignment on my business. I checked out NAR, our RE company and CRS conventions. KW had the best offereings.

I firmly believe that AS A WHOLE - in other words, CORPORATE WIDE, KW is the best company for an agent to choose if they plan on building their own business. With that said, local is where it's at. There is a big reason we are not with our local KW franchise and it has everything to do with the broker/owners. It's a big bummer because I know for a fact we would grow faster if we were able to plug into their systems 100%.

You have to make the best decision for you and your business. Write yourself a business plan. Which brokerage will help you achieve your business goals better? For Steve Taggart, that appears to be C21, for others it's other companies.

I do have to say, I keep tabs on the top producers in the country. I watch what company's they are at, what they are doing, etc. I see a lot of these producers migrating... to KW. These are people who have been with RE/MAX and other company's that tend to promote the agent vs. the brokerage. I've seen top CB and C21 agents migrate as well.

It'll be interesting to see what happens over the next 3-5 years. KW's numbers are growing at a faster clip than any other real estate company. They are growing at a faster clip than agents coming into the business. Their volume and profit sharing are growing in leaps and bounds. All of this speaks volumes. Just because KW may not be strong or visible in one's particular market, does not mean they are not a strong competitor. Prudential is insanely strong in the Philly suburb areas, but it doesn't even exist in the North Idaho, etc.
_________________________
Christina Ethridge Realtor® e-PRO, SRS
The North Idaho Dream Team LLC
GMAC Real Estate Northwest, Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
208.769.9464 | 208-262-2229 Fax
North Idaho Real Estate [url=www.blogcda.com ]www.blogcda.com [/url]

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#133421 - 04/06/07 09:32 PM Re: Keller Williams vs. Century 21 - pro's/con's ? [Re: Kelingdun]
chrishummel Offline
Member

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 53
Loc: MI
Originally Posted By: Kelingdun

"who is leading the race for best real estate brand".
Good read and relavent to the topic discussed.

http://www.rismedia.com/wp/2007-03-31/who-is-leading-the-race-for-best-real-estate-brand-2/


VERY INTERESTING INFO
_________________________
Chris Hummel

http://www.hummelcompanies.com

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#133488 - 04/07/07 01:31 AM Re: Keller Williams vs. Century 21 - pro's/con's ? [Re: chrishummel]
D_M_S Offline
Member

Registered: 03/06/07
Posts: 179
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
NorthIdaho - very insightful post, thanx for posting it.
_________________________
REALTOR®
http://www.thathomesold.com

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#133591 - 04/07/07 07:37 PM Re: Keller Williams vs. Century 21 - pro's/con's ? [Re: D_M_S]
staggart Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 930
Loc: Idaho Falls, ID, USA
The bit about top agents being with KW is simply wrong.

The Wall Street Journal in November of 2006 released the first comprehensive survey of the top 200 agents & teams. Realogy agents swept the top honors.

Individuals and teams from Sotheby's International Realty®, ERA® and CENTURY 21® (twice) claimed the respective No. 1 ranking in each of the four available categories. Coldwell Banker® and The Corcoran Group also posted multiple award winners among the categories.

Below are the Realogy-affiliated sales professionals who ranked among the Top 10 in each category:

Top Agents By Sales Volume
(Realogy Brands: 25 of Top 50)
1. Harald Grant, Sotheby's International Realty, Inc. (NRT), Southampton, N.Y. ($244,901,664)
4. Cristina Condon, Sotheby's International Realty, Inc. (NRT), Palm Beach, Fla. ($181,754,920)
7. Chris Cortazzo, Coldwell Banker (NRT), Los Angeles, Calif. ($172,717,770)
8. Randy Solakian, Coldwell Banker (NRT), Los Angeles, Calif. ($159,362,775)
10. Royce Cablayan, Coldwell Banker (NRT), Los Altos, Calif. ($149,727,631)

Top Agents By Transaction Sides
(Realogy Brands: 28 of Top 50)
1. Theresa Griffin, ERA Suncoast Realty, Crystal River, Fla. (891.5 sides)
3. C.R. Bankson, ERA American Realty & Investments, Homosassa, Fla. (308)
7. Vicki Foster, CENTURY 21 Judge Fite Co., Dallas, Texas (295)
9. Kadi Edge, Coldwell Banker (NRT), Los Angeles, Calif. (273)
10. Sandra Gibson, Coldwell Banker (NRT), Los Angeles, Calif. (269.3)

Top Teams by Sales Volume
(Realogy Brands: 17 of Top 50)
1. Ruth Pugh, CENTURY 21 Award, San Diego, Calif. ($539,500,000)
6. The Jills, Coldwell Banker (NRT), Miami Beach, Fla. ($276,723,050)
9. John McMonigle, Coldwell Banker (NRT), Newport Beach, Calif. ($256,901,250)
10. Browne, Pashby, Kann and Sullivan, The Corcoran Group (NRT), New York, N.Y. ($246,874,493)

Top Teams by Transaction Sides
(Realogy Brands: 10 of Top 50)
1. Ruth Pugh, CENTURY 21 Award, San Diego, Calif. (1,676 sides)


And, I'm going to be brutal for a moment.

I just pulled the 2006 numbers for Keller Williams:

* Total commissions: $2.49 billion
* Total agents: $72,600
* Total profit sharing: $52.3 million

A little math shows:

* Average commissions per agent: $34,298
* Average profit sharing per agent: $729.39

Now, my average agent did much more in average commissions --- more than twice that --- in little old Idaho. Ouch.

And, "profit sharing" is so minor as to be irrelevant.

The facts are pretty brutal. .
_________________________
Steve Taggart
Broker
CENTURY 21 Advantage
Southeast Idaho's Real Estate Leader(sm)
The GOLD Standard(sm)
400 W. Sunnyside Road
Idaho Falls, ID 83402
(208) 524-2121
http://www.IFhomes.com
http://www.IFreschool.com
staggart@ida.net

Top
#133592 - 04/07/07 07:43 PM Re: Keller Williams vs. Century 21 - pro's/con's ? [Re: staggart]
Dee in Austin Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 12/03/04
Posts: 2198
Loc: Austin, TX
Thanks, NorthIdaho, for your unbiased feedback. I joined KW because I wanted to own a brokerage, but didn't want to start one on my own. I really, truly enjoy the team spirit, sharing, models, systems, and help from the top. Gary Keller and Dave Jenks recently met with the Top 100 agents in Austin so we can mastermind with them. They want to make sure they stay in touch with us, so personally invited us to a session. We'll be doing them a few times a year besides all of the other national masterminding and sharing.

It's a great company and I wouldn't want to start my own brokerage. I wrote an article about it on Active Rain. http://activerain.com/blogsview/38369/Why-I-don-t
_________________________
Dee Copeland, ABR, ASR, CRS, e-PRO, GRI, SRES
Broker-Associate, Keller Williams Realty
http://www.CopelandGroupRealty.com
http://www.TexasRealtyBlog.com

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#133617 - 04/07/07 10:32 PM Re: Keller Williams vs. Century 21 - pro's/con's ? [Re: Dee in Austin]
northidaho Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/06
Posts: 53
Loc: North Idaho
Steve,

I'm well aware of WSJ's top 200, we ranked high on the list. But, you are lumping Realogy as one company, rather than putting it company by company. Otherwise, you aren't comparing apples to apples.

Additionally, if you participated in the list, you'd know that:

1) It's the first time WSJ has done this list (and it's not comprehensive by any means, though it aims to be).

2) Everything was self-submitted. In other words, the only people who submitted their numbers were people who found out that WSJ/Lore Magazine and Real Trends were doing this. In other words, this year will be much more competitive and inclusive because more people will know about it.

Next, to imply that only Realogy companies have the highest producing agents is just ridiculous. There is no fact basis behind this, only a 'gut' hopefulness (or assumption because you feel C21 is just 'the bomb').

Additionally, the data in the Top 200 is for the calendar year 2005. It's been 16 months since 2005. Since we communicate with the top agents with companies world-wide, I have some knowledge of the movement amongst companies. As I said in my previous post, while unscientific, I have seen a marked increase in top agents and teams nation-wide moving to KW.

Next, let's get into the 'average' numbers you've provided. First, how about being brutal across the industry as a whole. The national income average is how much? Leave the 'profit-sharing' out of it as other companies can't compare so talking negatively about it is a moot point. Then, lets get all of the Realogy companies numbers, distributed by company - what? They don't publish it? Hum, so it's not comparable.

In other words, the numbers you provided have NOTHING WHAT-SO-EVER to do with anything related to this conversation. You can't provide anyone else's numbers, for all we know, Realogy companies are lower. Comparing your one brokerage is also a moot point, we are comparing companies as a whole.

Look I understand you are all gung-ho about C21, but please provide apples-to-apples comparisons.



Edited by northidaho (04/07/07 10:33 PM)
_________________________
Christina Ethridge Realtor® e-PRO, SRS
The North Idaho Dream Team LLC
GMAC Real Estate Northwest, Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
208.769.9464 | 208-262-2229 Fax
North Idaho Real Estate [url=www.blogcda.com ]www.blogcda.com [/url]

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#133639 - 04/08/07 01:45 AM Re: Keller Williams vs. Century 21 - pro's/con's ? [Re: northidaho]
staggart Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 930
Loc: Idaho Falls, ID, USA
northidaho --

Fair enough.

For 2006, the Realogy companies had an average per agent commission of a bit above $53,300. I can go Realogy brand by brand (CENTURY 21, COLDWELL BANKER, ERA & SOTHERBYS) but all rank from mid-40s to high 50s. Compare that with KW's equivalent number below $35,000.

RE/MAX, Prudential and Realty Executives also topped KW in per person commissions.

Of note, a couple months, I saw KW numbers for 4 different Western markets (2 in California, one in Utah and another in Arizona). The per-person productivity for each was below local industry averages in every case.

The blunt point is that KW is known in the industry as the single lowest producing of ANY real estate franchise.

Why? I'd say it was the obsession on profit-sharing-driven recruiting rather than actually helping people buy or sell real estate.

Regardless, it seems that having a 7 level multi-level scheme doesn't --- in the end --- put money in agents' pockets. Our friends at EXIT could learn something from that fact.
_________________________
Steve Taggart
Broker
CENTURY 21 Advantage
Southeast Idaho's Real Estate Leader(sm)
The GOLD Standard(sm)
400 W. Sunnyside Road
Idaho Falls, ID 83402
(208) 524-2121
http://www.IFhomes.com
http://www.IFreschool.com
staggart@ida.net

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#134097 - 04/10/07 07:11 PM Re: Keller Williams vs. Century 21 - pro's/con's ? [Re: staggart]
Pigtayl Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/30/07
Posts: 6
Loc: Illinois
Aha, I think I just discovered the source of Steve Taggart's comments towards Keller Williams. Idaho Falls, ID is about 280 miles from Boise, ID (okay, not in their back yard, but close enough for this conversation). Boise, ID is home to the No. 1 profit sharing office in KW - internationally - for 2006, with $800,000 in profit sharing - for this office only! From June of 2006 to then end of 2006, that office went from 474 Agents to 530. With that many agents in one office, they must be spread out quite a distance from Boise - possibly all the way to Idaho Falls???? possibly taking over the market?????

One other comment, Steve. When you look at the average profit sharing per Agent at KW, you are significantly skewing the numbers. The profit sharing program is OPTIONAL. As a matter of fact, only a very small portion of all KW agents participate in it. Many are not comfortable recruiting and therefore choose not to.

C21 boasts 144,000 agents world wide, but only 10,000 went to the annual convention. KW has only 72,000 and had over 9,000 at their convention - hmmmmmm wonder why?

I agree with North Idaho - you should be comparing apples to apples, as he has done. I think he made some good comments about both Century 21 as well as Keller Williams.
_________________________
Judy

If you're struggling to generate referrals, then you need to watch this movie now!
http://www.TheReferralMovie.com/20420

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#134106 - 04/10/07 08:05 PM Re: Keller Williams vs. Century 21 - pro's/con's ? [Re: Pigtayl]
Northstar REO Offline
Member

Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 16
Loc: Illinois
Just a quick note in Illinois 80% of all agents come from offices of 8 agents or less. That is why they are talking about a new license Called MANAGING BROKER one up from a Brokers License.

_________________________
Bob Hall Broker / Owner
North Star Realty & Property Management
http://www.northstarrealty.biz

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#134129 - 04/10/07 10:35 PM Re: Keller Williams vs. Century 21 - pro's/con's ? [Re: Northstar REO]
staggart Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 930
Loc: Idaho Falls, ID, USA
Judy,

Your comments about KW's Boise office somehow impacting me is plain bizzare. That is all the way on the other side of the state.

The KW we had in our area was shut down after they were sued on an E&O claim a couple years ago.

Of note, based on your numbers for the Boise office (which you indicated was the top KW office), their profit sharing was a measly $1509.43 per person per year. That is a fraction of a deal. And, it certainly doesn't amount to much. Yet, people talk like they will be able to retire on their profit sharing. How silly.

More to my point about per-person-productivity, that average agent on KW's Boise Office sold only $1.7 million last year (new RISMedia survey). In contrast, an agent at the local Coldwell Banker office did $3.2 million in gross sales. An agent in the local Century 21 office did $2.2 million in gross sales. Even folks at the big local independent did quite a bit better.

If that is the top KW office, it is not a pretty picture when comes down to dollars and cents.

My original points were simple. KW's multi-level environment creates an almost evangelical fervor that is not based on results. And, that point is accurate --- and brutal.
_________________________
Steve Taggart
Broker
CENTURY 21 Advantage
Southeast Idaho's Real Estate Leader(sm)
The GOLD Standard(sm)
400 W. Sunnyside Road
Idaho Falls, ID 83402
(208) 524-2121
http://www.IFhomes.com
http://www.IFreschool.com
staggart@ida.net

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#134131 - 04/10/07 10:44 PM Re: Keller Williams vs. Century 21 - pro's/con's ? [Re: staggart]
real agent Offline
Member

Registered: 03/25/07
Posts: 223
Loc: North America
My dog is bigger than yours.

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#134134 - 04/10/07 10:55 PM Re: Keller Williams vs. Century 21 - pro's/con's ? [Re: real agent]
staggart Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 930
Loc: Idaho Falls, ID, USA
real agent ---

You are right. My last post was a bit snippy. I just didn't appreciate the claim that I had some hidden agenda.

But, for my tone, I apologize to all.
_________________________
Steve Taggart
Broker
CENTURY 21 Advantage
Southeast Idaho's Real Estate Leader(sm)
The GOLD Standard(sm)
400 W. Sunnyside Road
Idaho Falls, ID 83402
(208) 524-2121
http://www.IFhomes.com
http://www.IFreschool.com
staggart@ida.net

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