I'm very interested in offering 360 dgree panoramic virtual tours to all my clients and would like to know what equipment people use, the ups and down of the model they use, the cost and what they thought about it overall.

Any feedback is appreciated.

I only pay $65 a virtual tour. It would take quite some time for the equipment to pay for itself, in my opinion.

Is that for a full virtual tour? a 360 degree one? I've seen the lenses at about $400-800, plus the cost of the camera.

Yep! Plus that, I get a free CD of the tour and a link so that I can burn more tours myself. I use CirclePix. I think they're nationwide, if I'm not mistaken.

You can add items to the package that jack up the price, but I think the most expensive package is still around $100.

I looked into doing my own awhile back, but unless you do a ton of listings, I don't see how you'd save any money.

Those look great - just fired off a email to see if they operate in my area which i doubt (Yuma AZ). Although it may not work out cheaper than doing it myself, it sure takes the work out of it for me and lets me focus on generating more business.

edit: just found the coverage link - they don't operate in my area. Not surprised really, Realtors here are not that sophisticated and the average house price here is not that high compared to the rest of the USA.

no one?

Well I just purchased a Nikon 8400 Coolpix camera and ordered the Kaidan 360 degree lense today... so I'll let you know how it comes out!

will that one require stitching, or is it one of those funky take 1 pic lense? Please let me know how it turned out with a sample. What did it cost u?

So Realestatewebguy, was it any good?

Haven't received it yet! It's been backordered. It's the one shot 360 degree from Kaidan.com. I've done the stitching route already... WAY too much work.

Thats for that, not come across that company yet. Looks very good. I took a look around the site and could not see the difference between the stand and pro software. Do you know what it is?

What one did you order?

any progress?

ok - anyone else got a 360 lense/camera?

With all these tech savvy Realtors around here, i find it hard to believe no one does their own panoramic tours

The lense has been backordered, so am still waiting. Although I am using my new Nikon 8400 with the wide angle... it's awesome. Great quality.... You can see samples here:

http://www.therestoredhomestead.com/MaxcyFisher/PhotosSept.html

excellent pics

how long is the lense on back order? I just emailed them with a bunch of questions and one was expected delivery time.

What set up did you order?

I just order the 360 lense from Kaidan, but ordered it from Adorama.com (it's $50 cheaper). I'm still waiting on delivery. Kaidan told me 3 weeks... but who knows?

what about the software, tri-pod etc?

I have a tripod... the software comes with the camera (plus I use Photoshop CS2)

http://www.kaidan.com/Detail.bok?no=101

Check out www.nreds.com

Anyone with a camera and public panorama software can create these incredible video tours for a fraction of the cost of calling a so called "professional photographer". There are very few good quality photographers available for the virtual tour industry, specifically because there is not any money in virtual tours. I know, we've spent over $160,000 and 3 years on development alone for our service. And it keeps getting more everyday. Many times I wish that we had not done this. The frustrating part is that your average real estate agent has no idea what you have gone through to offer this service. As a result, they don't want to pay anything for them.

My advice to anyone who wants to do virtual tours on their own is, hope you have a lot of money and time. If you want to focus on real estate, great. If you want to waste years of hard work and whole lot of money, focus on creating your own virtual tours.

Everyone who looks at some of these virtual tour websites, thinks that this is an easy thing to do. Just create a web site and I'll start uploading photos and hey, while I'm at it, I'll do a couple for some of my friends. Take it from the owner of a virtual tour company, you have no idea what you are getting into.

I'm not trying to promote what we do, but I will say this. I am getting my RE license here in Texas right now. But if I didn't own NREDS.com, I would gladly pay whatever I had too to have someone else do it for me!

And I guess while I'm typing, I may as well throw a little invitation to any one interested in creating a great video tour presentation to visit our web site. Let me know what you think. We have Nationwide self-service available.

Really good solution allowing unlimited tours at $29.95/month with no special hardware is at www.visualtour.com.

Visted NERDS. Not entirely sure what this is about, other than blatant advertising. It appears you're just another virtual tour provider trying to sell your services (which you seem to put down).

Anyway, most of your website does not work. THe only link that works is 'free registration', which after 4 screens I gave up - still not sure what I was registering for, 'search our listings' which provided nothing, 'services' doesn't even work... the only thing I got to work was 'preview finished tour', which is essentially a virtual tour business not unlike many other out there.... so ... what is your point?

So, RealEstateWebGuy, how has it done with the lense?

And can i ask you why you went for the Kaidan over the cheaper alternatives like 0-360 and egg?

What camera you using?

RealEstateWebGuy,those look like great photos. Did you use a flash for the interiors or any additional lighting? Or did you brighten your photos in Photoshop?

I've been toting around a 1000W contractor's lamp that I bought for $35 at Lowe's and bouncing it off the ceiling for better illumination. But I'm planning on getting a digital SLR with a wide angle soon and am hoping that I can drop the lamp if I get a high powered flash.

I agree.

Create all the tours you want including panoramic and full 360 degree ones with YOUR camera and THEIR software.

I do panoramas of things like neighborhoods and back yards without a tripod. I just overlap each photo about 20% and the software stitches it together in about 2 minutes.

A great product.

I have to agree with Jim Kimmons and James Lee, www.visualtour.com looks like an extremely powerful marketing tool. I will be contacting them first thing tomorrow morning! Thanks for the lead guys.

I use the Nikon Coolpix 8400.... pretty much use the auto settings... no special lighting. It has a GREAT wide angle lense... I also double shoot each picture on a tripod (in rooms with windows) I take one at regular exposure and then one at a lower exposure to focus on outside the windows. Then I cut out the clear window on the underexposed photo and put it on the regular photo. So it cleans up that 'blown out window' look.

You can see some of these at

http://www.rudymayer.com/featuredprop/MaxcyFisher/PhotosSept.html

As far as the Kaidan lense, I ordered through Adorama (as it's $50 cheaper) but they're currently backordered... still.

But why the Kaidan?

Not sure really. I've just done a lot of research online, and the consensus seems to be that this one is the best. I've heard MANY negatives about EGG, and 0-360 looks very flimsy, and honestly, their website looks very tacky (I know, shouldn't judge by that, but I DO - that's my first impression of a company).

I know Kaidan has a great reputation concerning all of their products, and for a fairly small difference in price I figured it's worth it to get what 'appears' to be the best.

I've learned a long time ago that "you get what you pay for".

Well, i guess i'll be going with the Kaidan then.

With regards to the software, have you come across this? It looks excellent and i think i'm going to go with it.

http://www.360dof.com/products/vrbrochure-authoring-software/index.html

I think i'm going to change my digital camera too.....currently using the A80, but the adaptor for the lense costs $250 so may as well put that money towards a better camera that does not need such an expensive adaptor.

I'm leaning towards the 0-360, simply because it will work out to about $400 less. I wanted to get the coolpix 8700 and the Kaidan adaptor for that camera costs $300 which i think is a joke. The thread adaptor for the coolpix is $15 with the 0-360.

You stated you thought the 0-360 was flimsy, can you expand on that?

I would out the Kaidan would work with the 8700 with a cheap adaptor. I've ordered the 8700, the adaptor. Now all i need to do is order the lense tomorrow and decide which software to go with, although right now it seems the 360 degrees of freedom is the best hands down.

Do you ever get the feeling that you are talking to yourself?

Well sometimes it's not a "feeling" it's a sure thing! :p

Anyway, I'm still interested in this conversation. How is the Kaidan working out for you and which software did you decide to go with? Does the Kaiden just produce the pictures and you plug in the pictures into the stitching software?

OMG, someone has stepped into the room

Well, the web guy looks like he has gone missing. I've just ordered the kaidan this past week, and will let you know what results i get.

Theres no stitching, its a 1 shot thing, it takes a picture like a donut and you spin around it so to speak.

Heres an example - the quality on this one is very good, and i like the lay out of the page - simple but effective.

http://www.listing360.com/205058462/picturepath.html

Ah yes! I feel honoured to step into your domain I'm not sure why no one else seems interested in this *shrug*

The quality of the pictures look great! What's your plan with the Kaidan? Will you be creating virtual tours for all the listings you have? The device seems very bulky to be moving from house to house.

I am still waiting for mine... appears to be backordered STILL... Not thrilled... but nothing to report as of now!

We have now been using one shot 360 virtual tours for nearly 2 years now. I just cannot tell you how much time it saves and the quality of the tours.

Ours is not the same make but I presume the technology is the same.

I definitely recommend it.

Just wanted to let you all know that I do Virtual Tours on a regular basis. It is not from the 'one-shot' type picture but from a stiching as has been discussed. I charge $100 for the tour and $50 to come to take the pictures. As you can tell this is for Realtors in my local area (my zip code 21562).

You receive a copy of the tour on CD so that you have a copy and the tours are in QuickTime. Let me know if you have any questions!

Vernon,

Do you find there is demand in your area for virtual tours and is the success rate for those properties with virtual tours much more successful?

Thanks,
David

PS: Sorry not in your area

The demand for virtual tours is pretty high. A survey performed in August 2004 found that 25% of Real Estate business is generated from the Internet. If you are interested more about the survey you can read about it over on our site at http://www.kesnerdesigns.net/business/ne...-the-internet/.

With potential homebuyers starting online they are looking for online listings that have a good amount of pictures. A virtual tour takes that idea to the next level actually giving your potential homebuyers the ability to 'look around' a room or two before ever going to the house.

With homebuyers excited before they even get to the house you make your prediction of whether the success rate raises.

It is critical that agents post a number of photos and I suggest at least one photo from every main room of the home. Your homebuyers are starting out online, give them what they are looking for.

Best,
Vernon

There are also some free software programs that allow you to mesh images together taken from a regular camera.

The open source Open-Realty.com software has a plugin for creating 360 tours of all listings automatically.

-Peter

Open Realty is a nice piece application. We are actually developing a web builder system for Realtors where we are using Open Realty as a base for the sites that are built.

Vernon, what does your web builder system do? Does it allow Realtors to create their own virtual tours or something totally different?

OK... FINALLY got my lense (4 months later!)... had a few problems with my camera, however KAIDAN was incredibly helpful and supportive... can't say enough good about them.... and FINALLY... Voila!

Here's my first attempt.... and, believe it or not someone in Texas saw these today and are flying up to look at this house ($1.25M sale!)..

http://rudymayer.com/featuredprop/MaxcyFisher/360Tours/KITCHEN-qtcubic.html

Wow that looks great RealEstateWebGuy! Best of luck on the sale!

How much were the lenses and what camera do you use it with?

David

The lense was $700 ish... I needed a bracket... another $200. Camera is Nikon Coolpix 8400.

Took awhile to get it figured out... hopefully I'll get better!

Wow hefty price! So I suppose you still need a tripod and then stitch the photos together?

You do need a tripod, but no stitching. It takes everything in ONE shot. You just need to pop it into your computer and 'unwarp' the donut shaped image.

Honestly, since REALTORS don't seem to like to spend money on much, I don't see any business model selling high quality virtual tours to agents. They won't pay for the time involved.

The quality is better if you stitch them together. Most realtors would rather shoot 1 crummy picture for the MLS and be done with it then pay someone for professional, high quality shots.

At least with this contraption, the quality isn't as good as a stitched tour, but my time is minimal. No stitching, no touchup. I'm hoping that I can make money on this by keeping my price in the range that realtors MIGHT want to pay.. without devoting 3 hours of my time. They just wouldn't pay what I would have to charge - even for a million dollar property.

Wacky priorities in my mind, but that's why I'm not a realtor....!

My Dad has a lense like that. He loves it. They come out pretty nice.

I agree with the time vs. money issue. As long as you can see the house clearly I don't believe buyers would mind.

I'm curious of the quality. Do you have any sample pictures available on the web? I remember seeing some pictures created from, I believe, the Kaidan and they came out quite nice!

Also, what is the format type of the photo? Does it have to be in Apple Quicktime?

Thanks in advance,
David

Hello, All...

While new to this forum, I have been using a french made EggLens for almost 4 years now. Uploading the 360s to my website, I shoot .jpg format but I think an uncompressed image could provide better and sharper clarity.

I have not spent a lot of time using it or fiddling with my Sony DSC-85 but learned just enough to set it up and take the shot to load on website. I must say finding a good, stable tripod, capable of taking the loads...is well shopping at Sams or Costco has help find it yet. It shows too, what with my tri-focals and all...but I'm in RE doing REOs and not a pro photog. Pro photogs and Egglens are good investments for my money though so I do recommend them.

Here are some samples from the Kaidan lense and Nikon 8400:

http://www.rudymayer.com/featuredprop/MaxcyFisher/360Tours/KITCHEN-qtcubic.html

I use Quicktime for several reasons: 1) The quality is much better than java and flash... flash is horrible. Very distorted. 2) Quicktime is on most computers these days, as iTunes as increased the number of people on Windows who have it. I offer a large slideshow for people who don't have QT or don't want to download it. But I think blurry, distorted pictures for the sake of compatibility does a disservice to the seller and doesn't put their home in the best possible light. Just my 2 cents....

I'm using Nikon Cooplix E5600.
And I'm satisfied, very good quality.
It's cheaper then Nikon 8400, a little worser, though good enough.

Just thought i would let you know that i was looking at your tour and a software error occured while i was scrolling around.

I have my set up done, and done a quicky tour for an agent. I still need to learn the camera and learn what settings needed to be adjusted for different condition. I might be driving out to Phoenix as some kind soul out there said they would show me and a friend how to do them properly.

Anyway, heres my first attempt (auto settings, bashed up in a few mins so not a proper/serious attempt):
Link to tour

I do virtual tours for myself, for my office and other agents. I use Tournow.net. I use regular digital camera, with stitching software to create the 360 degree tours. I also sell them a domain name with the address listed. And a yard sign! See a sample at www.306TysonGlen.com

Just thought I would mention another option for virtual tours.

Some people don't like 360 spinning tours and a lot of times, the java based technology will crash the web browser.

I would like agent opinions on these virtual tours:

http://closingvideos.com/storeus.htm

Check this out:

http://podcasts.yahoo.com/series?s=d5512...d ominiums&ut=0

RealEstateWebGuy,

Do you still think Flash is terrible for VT?

I find that it's more compatible than quicktime and the quality is there now.

Your doing good, I like your tours.

Flash is definitely more universal, but the quality is not as good. I guess it depends on what you're striving for. I think high quality presentations and pictures overall will do more in selling a home (and impressing a seller) than a poor quality presentation that will appeal to a few more people. I'm not sure there's a right answer... just a judgment call.

Fortunately, thanks to the popularity of iTunes and iPods, Quicktime, which is the far superior method, is much more prevalent amongst Windows users.. .and of course, every Mac has it built in. A couple of years ago it was quite a different story.

I am joining this a little late, but this is my method. I use a company called Real Tour Vision. The company sells a complete package for about 2k. It includes everything to get started. I bought a more advanced camera and just purchased the software and such. The tours can be single photo up to 360. Any panorama's are taken with the camera on it's side.This way you are taking about 30 degree pictures of the room. To stitch, you just import the photo's and the software stitch's it together. I think it makes a pretty nice tour. Here is a sample of one I did. http://ts.rtvpix.com/tour.display.php?utl=RE-5641-G92GMX-01
The company is always adding new features. Now they can host video tours, agent comments and much more. The downside is the tours are purchased as "credits" in a bundle and spent as you post tours. They are hosted for a year, which is nice, and run $20.00 per credit. Not real expensive, but you have to buy a minimum of 30.Another thing to consider if you are posting the tour on the local MLS is that the tour must be IDX/MLS compliant. The company sends you multiple links of the tour that include links that are IDX/MLS compliant.
I looked at most options on the market before going this route. The biggest reason was the ability to compress the tour without losing resolution. The tour will start playing before the file is downloaded all the way. Check out the company website at www.realtourvision.com . I don't want anybody to think this is a ad for the company, so I will stop here.

Well, after several months, I've decided I honestly don't have time for the 360 tour. I have put my Kaidan 360 One VR lens on eBay beginning Monday the 20th of March (search under Kaidan 360) if anyone is interested. Used only 5 times! I just don't have the time right now to get involved with this....

I may be interested. How much are you going to list it for?

What do you mean you don't have time right now? Were you planning to run a virtual tour business?

It's starting at $500. PERFECT condition. (it's practically brand new). I was going to start a VT business on the side (I'm a web designer), but my business has picked up too much and I just don't have the time to deal with it right now. (I'm just one person!)

Nope... I think it's OK... Just did a 7 minute flash tour.... I like it! Personally, I think QuickTIme is infinitely better quality, and more and more people have QuickTime (thanks to iTunes)... but flash has a 98%+ penetration rate... and that's important to consider. Not as good quality... but it's doable I think....

http://www.rudymayer.com/featuredprop/MaxcyFisher/PhotosSept.html

Are you asking $500US for just the lens? or does is come with other items such as adapter, tripod, etc.?

I was starting the bid at $500 (paid $750 for it last December). It comes with software only. However, it appears it's already been sold... am just awaiting a check. If it doesn't happen I'll let you know....

Let me know if the deal falls through. I ordered one from Kaidan and it's on backorder. It's due to ship/be charged after the 1st of April.

Scott

Went out in the mail today.....!

RealEstateWebGuy -

Could you tell me how to "Mask a Link"?

Thanks -

Oops Sorry
I should have e-mailed you directly (off subject)
I apologize -

I use a 12 megapixel camera(Fuji S7000) and photostitch.

360 Tours are old technology and take away from the look of a home by distorting the views. Most people just want to sit back and watch a video of a home, be taken on a tour instead of having to click around in a small java window that crashes computers a lot.

Everyone is going to move to Flash because it's more compatible than any other video or java method. Custom video is the future. People like choice. They like to be able to choose their own music, choose what text is on the video, choose an opening animation theme and closing. Custom costs more, but not much. Professional voice overs are a nice touch for higher end homes. Never have an amature do a voice over, it always takes aways from the tour if you have yourself or someone not polished speaking during a tour. Custom Tours is the future and everyone is going to move to flash based video.

Flash + Custom video tours + Professional Voice Over = the future of Real Estate Virtual Tours. DVD's are added value to list all your current listings and solds. Not bad for a listing presentation.

http://www.closingvideos.com

Another thought. Video Tours are great, if you shoot good video.
You can go buy a 4k camera and still shoot terrible video tours. Make sure if you attempt this direction, you get trained on how to shoot video. If you say your self taught on shooting video, then you still don't shoot good video, you just think you do.

Go out and purchase a DVD on how to shoot video like the pros or something and it will help you shoot much better video. Right now when you shoot a video, your really just winging it. That's ok for a while but if you spend $ on gear, spend a little on training and your product will be a ton better.

This email is for information only for agents looking to shoot real video tours or others who are doing it now and wondering why no one is wanting to buy their videos services.

Anyone can shoot video, but shooting well is the key.

I totally agree, knowledge and experience in shooting is vital. Also, if you are to play videos over the web, downloading time is a big factor. So, make sure the user will not wait too long for it to load. On the other hand, 360 panoramic view is still great since it's just a series of photos, and thus, it will download quickly!

and.... if you like, you can try me. I can make you a good panoramic tour and virtual/video tour, fast loading and in good resolution quality, at affordable price of course!

Arcsoft offers virtual tour software for like 20 bucks. I host my own tours now for free on my website. It does take about 45 minutes to stitch together images. But it is next to nothing and works with my digital camera and a 25 buck walmart tripod.

A company called http://www.realtourlive.com/ offers audio on demand flash tours that anyone can create. Type in the words and the best voice synthesis on the planet reads back your copy. It works real nice. Looks awesome and it smokes everything I've seen. You have to call to get in right now.

I've created Virtual Tours since 1999 professionally for realtors and others. We have a unique business model where we post the images to our own web site, and anybody can browse the images. Have a look! SIHomeTours.com Currently over 250 listings online. We posted 64 last month. That's about one weeks work for my friend in CG Mo. I make good money but he makes it hand over fist.

On the back end of my site, that you'll not see, are agent logins with charts of how many views, creating open house listings, and adding notes. The site owner has an easy to use interface to enter data and upload photos so that listing pages are automatically and dynamically created - very quickly, saving you lots of time. Invoicing and a sophisticated price compare utility that keeps the price of your listings updated and removes sold or withdrawn listings AND generating invoices. That's how you make money in this, volume and automation.

Realtors like that they can spend more time $elling, instead of fooling around with cameras and computers. Buyers like the tours. Sellers like how good their house looks.

There seems to be a surge in interest of virtual tours lately so we're having a training session soon. Several of us who are successful and have been doing this daily for five years or more are telling all our secrets. http://www.virtualtoursummit.com/ebs

As you can guess, I think it's the way to go. Decent Video requires a high skill level, expensive equipment, dolly's, lights, cords, lots of editing... and more. Bouncy hand held video will make you sick fast, as will panning too fast. (My wife works at a TV station. I've done video. Some places I've shot in the past would require a truck full of lights to do video.)

I can shoot a house in 20-30 minutes in any lighting condition and have it online in the evening with 10-30 minutes of post processing. We've automated nearly everything to optimize the workflow. And since we don't give the images to the realtors, we've built up a great web site with lots of traffic, which is a valuable business asset in itself, constantly growing.

I recommend a 5+ megapixel camera. A big external flash. Super wide angle lens (10mm - 20mm equivalent in 35m format.) We've used the 0-360 with success and I've not seen the new Kaidan lens. We're actually still using the BeHere lens. And of course a great web site. (we can help with that.)

I did stitching in the beginning with an Apple QuickTake camera and I didn't like it then. I don't like it now but the results are easier and better. But not as good in my opinion as the BeHere. Especially for the time involved.

I can't do it here but I've also proven that bad photos can harm a listing. (A guy in the Wall St Journal did it first, actually.) It really pays to have a professional using professional equipment. Saves the realtor time and the picts are better.

/kelly thomas
A Proven Business Model with
Proven Technology and Proven Results
http://www.virtualtoursummit.com/ebs

For anyone who may be interested...

Our company creates virtual tours for houses and other buildings that have not been built yet. A great way to market a spec home or pre-sell units in a commercial or multi-family development.

You may view our portfolio at the link below.

Respond NOW
and you can get everything above
Only $8,500.00

Ok that real estate virtual tour summit looks like a great money maker for the company hosting it. Come on though, at that price you could buy a real nice computer system, DVD duplicator, flat screen monitors, nice printers, etc.

And you only charge $300 per month hosting?
Offshore Casinos don't even charge that much for hosting.

If I am missint something, let me know, for $8500 does it include computers and video equipment?

weeoow! $8,500? that's huge!
with $500 I can make you already a simple website like this.

http://www.homegrandeur.com/cebuhouseandlotforsale2/menchu/

I just took the video using creative mini dvcam, so the quality is not so sharp and vivid... but if you a better camera and nice photos... well that's it!

Homegrandeur

I totally agree. For 6500 our company would include a hi-cam for aerial photography. For hosting if you have your own equipment we only
charge 100 a month. $8500 is too high no matter how you slice it.

Regards,

Jim Beauchamp
www.voyager360.com

yeah, when i saw that post, i was interested until i saw the price. Looks like highly inflated prices which are then discounted. The old "double the price, 50% off sale" scam.

Love the look of your website.

Thanks Yuma,

You should check out our other site www.kayyah.com We spend a lot of time developing and redeveloping our sites.

Regards,

Jim Beauchamp
www.voyager360.com
www.kayyah.com

I have visited kayyah and am impressed. I will look into it...

jbowshaw, your site rocks!

very impressive and informative!
I love the google map thing. nice!

I use egglens and a sony S85 camera five years now..

Thanks HomeGradeur,

We just launched support for IPIX since IPIX went out of business and left a lot of people hanging.

Takes a lot of time to develop all this stuff, how come there aren't 36 hours in a day?

hahaha... surprisingly, time is swift and I too can't keep the pace. I wish also we had longer hours in a day, in that way, I can do more with my site after work.

Hi, my name is Bruno Roldan from Guru Home Visions. We offer unlimited virtual tours for $149.99 (Canadian $)/year.

The virtual tours are created from digital photos and done online in minutes - you dont need any special equipment.

You can view a demo on the website - www.guruhomevisions.com

You can call me toll free at 1-866-668-5237 if you want to learn more about my service.