I need some advice. I bought some acreage property and the property markers weren't clear so my realtor asked the seller's agent about the property lines and the seller's agent said a survey had just been completed. When asked for a copy, the reply was that the survey company was still working on it.

The RESPA was signed and instead of writing the acreage on the document, my realtor only wrote the tax parcel number. I took the seller to court and the judge concluded that I agreed to buy the property described by the tax parcel number but the amount of acreage could not be contested even if it was incorrect because it was not listed on the RESPA. I can still appeal but I've already spent $20,000 fighting this. ($11,000 of that are the seller's attorney fees which I must pay - double slap).

I feel the realtor made a mistake because he knew of my concerns about the acreage size so he should have listed it. (Did I mention that this was my first ever real estate purchase so I did not know much - now I know a lot)

The property was advertised on flyers and the web (still have a copy) for 4.67 acres. i had it surveyed since i never received a copy from the seller and found that it was 3.5 acres.

Now to the forged documents - 2 of the documents had forged signatures and both came from the real estate agent. I had a handwriting analyst review the dcouments who concluded that they were forgeries. Is there something that protects us from this stuff?

I just wonder how people who take advantage can get away with this stuff and on top of that, the court penalizes me for trying to stick up for what is right.

I think you owe it to yourSelf to appeal and make sure your Attorney believes in your case. I would award you your costs and punitive damages; particularly if Forgery was involved - which is a Felony in most Jurisdictions.

So you now actually hold Title to the Subject Property ?


I think you should have waited until their Survey was completed. Your own Agent sounds like he/she was acting in haste, to the detriment of your best interests. What was the RUSH ?

My only concern with appealing is money. If the next judge agrees with the current judge then I have to pay my attorney, the seller's attorney plus all related costs. That's a worst case scenerio. The current judge was not even phased by the forgery. she said the only thing she was looking at was the RESPA. It was the only thing that mattered in the case to her. Did I mention that the seller's attorney held a deposition without telling my attorney. The judge did not penalize them for that either. Very frustrating. Makes me wonder if the judge knows the seller's attorney.

You need to find another attorney?

My guess would be there is ALOT more to the story that is best handled by a Law professional.

That's why you need an Trial Attorney who, upon reviewing the strength of your Case, will consider taking it on a contingency basis. That may be a hard commodity to find in your (or any) area; but such people exist, and thrive on such Cases. You should be able to interview several Litigators for free. If they don't have the time to review the Case with you, then you know that's not the one for you . . . . But you only need one !

Again; "What was the RUSH ?

Important Notice: This information is provided as basic educational information by the author and is not a substitute for the advice of an expert and/or the advice of a Lawyer. There is NO representation as to legality, accuracy, correctness of the herein information and the reader is strongly urged to consult an Attorney in the relevant jurisdiction to ensure accuracy before acting on this information.

I think you need to give us a little more details.
I am not questioning you but it make me wonder what is actually going on as you said you already have to pay "$11,000 of that are the seller's attorney fees which I must pay " and that you have to appeal. That leads me to believe you lost and that there is more to this.

In a NUTSHELL it sounds like to me you are pissed because you paid more for less land.

In every state a buyers has "a right of their own inquiry"

This means you must investigate ALL of your questions to your satisfaction before proceeding to purchase property.A real estate broker/agent is not an expert when it comes to surveys.

Regardless of what the seller was doing you should have had YOUR OWN survey completed which would have shown the descrepancy. At that point you could cancel the deal or get a reduction in price if your contract was setup properly.

Not getting your survey upfront has cost you 20k so far.

As far as the respa because you say it lists the tax id the judge is probabaly correct. So in essence you lost 20k. You could go after the agent for negligence but again would have to pay cour tcosts and prove that and it's doubtful even with a judgement you would get money from them.

Good luck-no legal advice

It is best to get legal advice from an attorney in your area that specializes in real estate.

My opinion, which is not to be construed as legal advice, is that you signed a purchase contract. In this document, there may have been a phrase/paragraph about getting inspections, surveys, title insurance etc etc. The contract may have even suggested that it is the advice of the agents/brokers involved to get all of these things done to your satisfaction, and not to rely on any other information you may have seen/been told.

I am sorry you feel that you got the short end of the stick. Consulting an attorney is the best advice we can give you.

Hi Alan,

There isn't more stuff. I only have to pay the seller's attorney's fees if I don't appeal. It's pretty simply. I bought a piece of property that was advertised a certain size and it turned out it wasn't. The opposing councel did do a few unethical things like having a deposition without telling my attorney, trying to contact my expert witness directly, and coming to my property and talking to me without my lawyer present. I didn't recognize him as the opposing lawyer until he said so. He looked a lot different not being in a suit.

Hi Mark,

You are right I did sign an agreement but the addendum that talks about the survey was a forgery. I had the document examined by a handwriting analyst who agreed that I had not signed it. Now the question is what realtor signed it? Mine or the sellers. My swears he didn't.

What happened to honesty and integrity? Are these traits that are not valued in real estate?

I will look into finding a trial lawyer who might take this on a contingency. I think it is worth looking into. Thanks.

I guess the RUSH was on my realtor's part because i wasn't in a rush. I had never bought a land or a home before this. This was my first venture into real estate. The realtor had been in real estate for 9 or so years. I worked with his girlfriend, and I had good references that i had checked out. I thought I had done my homework. By the way, I tried to contact him this week and he no longer is a realtor.

the judge had to decide based on the information presented. do you have any information/documentation showing that the seller previously knew the property was smaller than the tax record indicated?

your agent was smart by NOT indicating the actual parcel size, knowing there may be a discrepancy. the agent should not make any representation for property information that is not verified. your agent should have strongly urged you to obtain your own survey as a contingency in the purchase contract. but ultimately, it is your decision.

if you can prove forgery, you can sue on those grounds alone, and obtain relief. the forgery can be considered "fraud in the inducement" if the forged documents induced you to follow through with the transaction. based on your explanation, it appears this was the case. it will be very difficult if not impossible to determine who actually signed the forged documents...because it may have been an unknown person directed by one of the agents. find an attorney that will take the case on contingency.

no legal advice intended

There is one document created when the property was originally split by his sister that shows the correct size. He told the court that he had no idea it was smaller than he advertised. I don't know if he saw the document that shows the correct size but I would think so since the original property was divided by his sister. Originally his parents property. The document was among many filed with the county.

Also, Forgery was proved by an expert witness. She brought charts and told the court why she thought it was a forgery. I didn't know the forged document existed until my attorney asked me about it after she received it from the opposing attorney.

I wish my realtor had strongly urged me to get a survey. It sounds like he was under the impression that the seller had just had a survey done and we were waiting on the results. I never heard this until we were in court because he had told me that a survey wasn't really needed and that the law protected buyers.

Look beleive what you want to in your mind. Play this out to end and write a book and make it your life's work.

You need to deal with REALITY and not how you wish things played out. NEGLIGENCE and INEXPERIENCE as a buyer does not mean you don't do something and it's OK because you have never done it before.

You can say this or that person said there were aliens on earth. Good luck proving verbal anything in a court of law. Ethics by the way have nothing to do with the law and whether it was broken or not. I really hope you can make that distinction in your mind.

Your agent is out of the business,your EXPERT THINKS the document was forged,and you are going after a seller who is saying I didn't know anything and I thought it was correct.

Looks like everyone to me is pointing to YOU having to get that survey and NOT relying on the seller,your agent,or their agent.

I am not bashing you just telling it like I see it. You want to play the victim and blame the agent when clearly agent sare not experts in surveys,etc,etc. In fact our Ga contracts have a half page explaining so covering everything known to man. Buyers like to blame everyone else when they don't want to spend the money for upfront due diligence items to get their answers. Then later when it bites them in the butt they scream fowl.

Good luck to you and I hope your MIRACLE happens and you win eventually.

No legal advice

I'm dealing with reality and hope my experience will help someone in the future. You are right. Don't believe what everyone tells you even if they are considered experts but I have learned that a real estate attorney would be highly recommended to oversee all the documents and explain everything. I would have spent the money upfront had I been advised or urged to get one. Unfortunately for myself, I took my agent's advice.

This is on top of every RE contract form in my state and should be the first line that is read by every agent to their client or customer.

"THIS FORM HAS IMPORTANT LEGAL CONSEQUENCES AND THE PARTIES SHOULD CONSULT LEGAL AND TAX OR OTHER COUNSEL BEFORE SIGNING."

As in all circumstances, experts should be hired to give expert advice and findings. RE agents are not expert surveyors, plumbers or appraisers etc. and every buyer and seller needs to keep that in mind.

dreamer, was fraud a cause of action in your lawsuit? if not, I can't imagine why your attorney did not include it.

Dreamer
If you had a law suit and lost then the opposing counsel can ask the judge for his/her legal fees. It does not have anything to do with appeal. If you appeal and lose then you have additional fees to pay.

That said may I ask what exactly did you bring suit for. That is not what you’re upset with and or think you are upset with. Look at your document and you will see something like Count 1 is Count 2 is etc

The thing is if you sue based on you bought something different from what you thought you did then it goes back to the legal/tax ID number and if that is correct then you bought what you thought you bought regardless of the acreage. Based on what info you are giving I think that is what happened here, and why the judge ruled against you.

Now if you move forward you may have a case against the listing agent and seller for false advertising. If they advertised as you say 4.67 ac and in fact its 3.5 acres. Then you might want to think about false advertising. Be careful as if they also put something like MOL after that it will make wining a little more difficult and MOL stands for More or Less.

Also let me ask did you actually sue for forged documents or just that what you bought was not what you thought you bought. And that the forged document was part of your evidence. If that’s the case the Judge may have ruled based on the fact then it did not matter about the forged document as it would not have changed his ruling either way.

It all goes back to what are you actually suing for. Not your evidence or feelings.

I am not a lawyer or giving legal advice just that I have been through something similar.

Dreamer

LOCALLY: An appeal must be filed within a prescribed time period, provided there is sufficient and credible evidence to warrant an appeal.

An appeal can be made on

1. the conviction
2. the penalty (harsh and unusual punishment) beyond established guidelines and/or precedents)
3. an error in law
4. an error in the application and interpretation of the law
5. an error in the facts
6. an error in interpretation of the facts
7. an error in procedure
8. the reasons

An appeal is not a new trial (except in very limited circumstances.) An appeal is not an opportunity to have a panel of judges hear the case a second time to see if they will make a different decision.

An appeal will not necessarily succeed, even if the appeal panel would have made a different decision themselves. The scope of an appeal is determined by the type of case that is being appealed. In most cases, you cannot introduce new evidence on the appeal.

An appeal court looks at the evidence from the original trial, which is made of transcripts of the evidence of the witnesses, the transcript of the judge’s reasons and the physical evidence which was entered as exhibits. That’s it.

The arguments and submissions of the lawyers are not included. The appeal court does not get to see the witnesses to asses their attitude and credibility.

The appeal court does not look at the evidence and make a decision that it thinks is right on the facts.

The test for an appeal is this: Can the decision of the trial judge be supported by the evidence? In other words, the appeal court may have decided differently, but if the tried judge had the evidence to back up his or her reasons, the appeal fails.

Here is another problem with appeals: as the appeal judge does not get to see the witnesses in the stand, any findings that the trial judge makes on credibility are virtually untouchable.

So, if the trial judge did not believe your testimony and believed the other side, the appeal court will do the same.

Appeals can be expensive with no guarantee of the outcome and in the event the appellate court ordered a new trial there would be the corresponding costs related thereto and still with no guarantee.

Important Notice: This information is provided as basic educational information by the author and is not a substitute for the advice of an expert and/or the advice of a lawyer. There is NO representation as to legality, accuracy, correctness of the herein information and the reader is strongly urged to consult a lawyer in the relevant jurisdiction to ensure accuracy before acting on this information