where can i find the violation or legal case regarding the listing agent not submitting a full price-as is offer to the sellers? they keep reducing the asking price,

listing agent told me that he won;t submit my full price offer to the sellers.

what should i do regarding this?

Is the property under contract? Perhaps the sellers told him that they don't want any more offers?

nope, still active and it just reduced $60,000,

no offer other than my buyers

that's mondo bizarro

Did the listing agent say why he won't submit the offer?

he doesn;t like my buyers, may be he wants to buy this house cheap without presenting any offer to the sellers.

Before you consider other actions, call the broker in charge! Or, go with the offer to the listings agent office and talk to his broker and submit your clients offer at that time...

Listing agent has a duty and obligation to submit all offers.

Bay, has hea actually said those things? That he doesn't like your buyers?

2 options... physically deliver the offer to his office and/or ask your Broker to step in and present the offer.

I'm not saying this is the case here... but I've seen some deals almost go south because of personality conflicts. It can help to get another head in the game at times.

I'm sure there is more to this... I can feel your frustration from here.

I hope it all works out!

I agree with GM2004 - talk with your broker and ask him/her to go straight to the listing agents broker. The listing belongs to the broker, not the agent and the broker is ultimately responsible for how it will be handled. At the very least, this should prompt the broker to ask the listing agent what's going on and you should get some real answers nailed out.

Unless the listing agent has it in writing from the seller not to present offers like yours (for whatever the reason might be), they are supposed to present all offers in a timely manner.

What type of property is this short sale,pre-foreclosure,reo,regular listing?

I have seen it where there is an offer for an reo on the table but mls shows active and the listing broker is waiting for the next price reduction so that the bank can accept there buyer offer and the broker can double end the deal.

There could be a couple of things going on it's hard to say.

if you're in California, the DRE can help you find references in the California Code, and court decisions. this is a well known obligation under general agency law.

we can't tell you what you (should) do, because that could be taken as legal advice. what you can do...get tough and inform the listing broker that he is on thin ice if he refuses to present the offer without a written instruction to that effect from his client.

and if the current list price is lower than your current offer, withdraw it and submit a new lower offer. the seller will be obligated to accept your new cash offer (without contingencies) at the current list price, saving the buyer some serious cash.

no legal advice intended

If it is a foreclosure does the bank require the offer to be submitted by the buyer's agent directly to the bank through the bank's website?

I would email/fax the offer for documentation purposes, that way later on it won't be he said i said.
I would call DRE as well but before this, talk to your broker and he/she should contact his broker

A seller is never obligated to accept any offer (at least not in FL, but I'm pretty sure this applies pretty much anywhere)...regardless of whether it's full price or not...

New York is like ManFromTheBand reports for Florida, somehow I doubt Nevada is any different!

read the listing agreement.

1. Document it. Send Fax or Email to other Agent & Other Broker & Your Broker, clarifying what was said by whom and when.

2. Take the Matter in writing to your Broker, your Broker may have Legal Counsel available for advice.

3. If you are a member of California Association Realtors, they have a legal staff that will provide guidance.

4. If it's on the MLS, check your rules, and contact your Board for assistance. Who knows maybe you would be entitled to a commission on the property when & if it ever closes. But mainly it doesn't belong on a "co-operating MLS" if the Seller is not Co-Operating, "Not Accepting Offers".

I recently read a blog (last 45 days) on a property that had "sometype" of serious issue (either structural or Drug/Mold/Anthracks Clean-Up issue) It required an all cash sofisticated buyer, the Seller (Bank or Private Lender) instructed the agent to only show them certain criteria buyers and basically would not sell to just any buyer) In addition, the agent was not at liberty to disclose until after an offer was accepted from a "certain qualified type" of buyer. The Agent was not allowed to disclose any details, on what the "prequalify" conditions would be,thus not making this issue transparent to all buyers' or their agents.

Sorry wish I could recall where I read this....You may want to google some topic with a keyword "offers not presented", or something.

The behaviors of the Listing Agent in the article and what you describe have many similarities. The price was dropping because repair reports for eradication were still coming in.

I recall thinking as I read the article that the seller was not consumer friendly, but at the same time his job was to dispose of the property, limit his 1st hand knowledge, so he didn't have to disclose... and minimize publicity in order to contain further legal exposure. I can't recall if the blog-home was listed on the MLS.

Keep us posted on whatever happens...like to have an end of story..... and Good Luck

True, but they are obligated to pay a commission.

That part usually gets their attention, Doesn't it ?

in some cases the buyer could sue and force the sale. so, at least in theory, the seller IS obligated to sell per the terms of the listing agreement and purchase offer. in reality, this isn't done very often as courts are reluctant to compel a sale unless at least one party can show substantial damages as a result of non-performance.

no legal advice intended

i could be mistaken, but i was under the impression that we are speaking of an offer as opposed to an actual contract (contract=signed by both parties with all terms and condition agreed). the fact that it is an offer would make the terms the buyer offers unenforceable until the seller were to actually sign the paperwork. non-performance is when someone agrees to something and does not follow through. the fact that there was nothing agreed makes a suit of non-performance irrelevant.

if i were a lawyer i would call this legal advice but i am no lawyer so this is not intended to be legal advice, just my opinion.

That is illegal in our state. If you write an offer for a buck on a bevnap, the listing agent still must present it.

Originally Posted By: ManFromTheBand
A seller is never obligated to accept any offer (at least not in FL, but I'm pretty sure this applies pretty much anywhere)...regardless of whether it's full price or not...


True, but they are obligated to pay a commission.
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Depends on what is in the listing agreement

First you need to tell us more about the offer. What are your terms? The listing agent may be operating under the direction of the seller. For example I do have one seller that has given me explicit instructions to reject all FHA offers. What kind of condition is the property in? The listing agent may be under directions to only present cash or 80% LTV or lower offers. What is the closing date? The listing agent may be under instructions not to present any offer with 60 day or longer close. Are you requiring your own title company? That may be a reason as well.

You need to give more information than just you offer is not being presented. If the listing agent is operating on the direction of the seller and your pursue the issue you will look like a fool. So please give us more information.

Thats where it gets real tricky. There are other things in an offer then price. There are terms. And even a closing date is a term. The seller can simply say I rejected the offer based on terms. And no the seller does not have to give a reason.

And with that if the property is homesteaded you can not force a seller to sell even with a contract. The most you can get if the property is homesteaded is damages.

Does this apply to REO properties?

How to make sure the offer finds its way to the Seller (Bank)?

We all forget this but you have the right to present and submit the offer directly to the Seller (in California). The LAs don't like this but we do have the right to present our clients offer directly. Is the house vacant or occupied by the Sellers? If occupied, I'd leave them a note saying you have an offer you'd like to present to them.

As others have said you have the following options other than the one above:

1. Let your broker talk to the LAs broker and get the offer submitted that way;

2. Submit a grievance to the MLS and let them deal with it (they will be able to see if the LA violated his obligations to his clients by withholding offers). I would certainly make a big point of mentioning in the complaint what the LA said about your clients (not liking them). That smacks of discrimination, especially if your clients are in some protected class. A LAs job isnt' to like or dislike potential buyers, it just isn't;

3. Contact the CAR Legal Hotline and ask for their guidance; and

4. If all else fails, make a complaint to the DRE. Failure to submit offers (even after an offer has been accepted, unless otherwise instructed not to) is a violation of state law and they will investigate.

Good luck.

In all 50 states it depends on the seller. If the seller dictacts all offers be presented by the listing agent then there is nothing anyone can do about it. That is the way it is. All the listing agent has to do is get a note from the seller that the seller wants the listing agent to present all offers.

On our mls we have an area where it specifcally says if it is ok to present offers directly to the seller with a yes or no.

Assuming this is not bank owned, there are no laws or codes that restrict the buyer from knocking on the door of the seller and presenting the offer themselves.

There are no laws restricting a buyers agent from mailing the offer to the seller.

A couple clarifications ---

First, a seller is not obligated to accept an offer because it is full price without contingencies. A listing is merely an invitation to submit offers. It imposed absolutely no obligation on the seller to accept that offer. That is black letter contract law (not just in the real estate arena).

Second, an agent is not entitled to a commission because they submit a full price offer. A commission is only owed if the buyer & seller agree to a deal. This is often referred to as presenting a "ready, willing and able buyer". If the seller were then to back out, then the buyer's agent might have a claim.

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There are key facts missing in this example. Why would an agent decline to present an offer, particularly in the current environment? Merely disliking the party seems unlikely to trigger that reaction.

I wonder if the agent has conveyed the offer to the sellers and they simply said, verbally, "no". Perhaps the issue is that they have refused to respond in writing. They can do so. Odd. But, allowable.

Or, have the sellers dealt with these buyers before and doesn't want to go another round with them?

A seller does have the right to refuse an offer, even if full price, for any reason as long it is not because of a reason protected by fair housing guidelines.

If the seller's agent -- say he or she is suffering from a psychotic breakdown -- is truly refusing to present, then options are somewhat limited.

If a REALTOR(r), the buyer's agent may not go around the listing agent directly and present to the seller. But, he or she can inform the seller directly that they do have an offer. Even then, it is an ethical violation to present directly without involving the listing agent.

Practically, the best approach, as suggested above, is to get your broker involved and, if necessary, have a discussion with the other broker.

In NC our listing agreements state that a commission is due to the listing agent when a ready able and willing buyer is procured with the terms set forth in the listing agreement. The property does not have to go under contract if all of the terms in the listing agreement are fulfilled.

Our MLS rules state pretty much the same thing. If I bring a full price cash offer to a listing in the MLS the listing broker owes me a commission. If the seller won't sell the listing broker can either pay me out of their pocket or they can sue the seller.

I have used this rule twice on listing agents who let their sellers change the terms after I brought offers per the requirement they put in the MLS. Both agents argued with me, both agents checked the rules, both agents informed their sellers they would have to either sell or pay, both signed and sold.

Real estate is local.

Bigtoe --

I beg to differ.

I know states have varying legal structures but what you are outlining is wildly inconsistent with anything I've every heard anywhere.

You indicated that a commission is due the listing agent in North Carolina once a buyer is procured consistent with terms of the listing contract.

I went to the North Carolina Real Estate Commission's web site. It includes in the Bulleten section the following case (from New Jersey) under the title: "Important New Development in the Law of Brokerage".

This case involves a dispute over whether a commission is owed when the contract is signed or if the buyer can perform. The court sides with the second view noting: "In a practical world, the true test of a willing buyer is not met when he signs an agreement to purchase; it is demonstrated at the time of closing of title, and if he unjustifiably refuses or is unable financially to perform then, the broker has not produced a willing buyer ...."
http://www.ncrec.state.nc.us/bulletin/vol1-2bulletin/important_new_development_in_the.htm

Obviously, that is even more stringent that the standard I was outlining of compensation being owed on the signing of a valid contract. The standard cited by your real estate commission is that the key point is that the buyer must be able to perform and the test of that is at closing.

I strongly doubt North Carolina has carved out a unique exception whereby just producing a buyer obligates a listing agent to cough up cash to the buyer's agent --- when the listing broker isn't owed a commission by the seller in the same circumstance.

I don't mean to demean but I just don't believe this could be so.

If you still disagree, post the actual language from your listing agreement and mls agreement for consideration.

The buyer can approach the seller directly without having to go through the listing agent and present the offer.

Here is what our contracts say, when we get paid. (Basically, NO closing, NO pay)

Listing Contract
16. COMPENSATION TO BROKERAGE FIRM. Seller agrees that any Brokerage Firm compensation that is conditioned upon the
Sale of the Property shall be earned by Brokerage Firm as set forth herein without any discount or allowance for any efforts made by Seller
or by any other person in connection with the Sale of the Property…..
When Earned. Such commission shall be earned upon the occurrence of any of the following:
(1) Any Sale of the Property within the Listing Period by Seller, by Broker or by any other person;
(2) Broker finding a buyer who is ready, willing and able to complete the transaction as specified herein by Seller; ….
(3) Any Sale of the Property within xxx calendar days subsequent to the expiration of the Listing Period (Holdover Period)….

Purchase Contract
Earned. The Success Fee is earned by the Brokerage Firm upon the Purchase of the Property and is payable upon closing of the transaction. If any transaction fails to close as a result of the seller’s default, with no fault on the part of Buyer, the Success Fee shall be waived. If any transaction fails to close as a result of Buyer’s default, in whole or in part, the Success Fee shall not be waived; such fee shall be payable upon Buyer's default, but in any event not later than the date that the closing of the transaction was to have occurred.

I am not mistaken. Read this case again.

This case is about a buyer who refused to close and the buyer agent wanted to get paid. The agent did not bring a buyer who was willing to close so the terms of the listing agreement and MLS agreement were not met.

If the buyer was willing to close and the seller wasn't then the buyer agent would have gotten paid.

If the buyer agent brings a full price cash offer and the seller refuses to sign the buyer agent is due a commission per the MLS rules. Been there, did that.

On a side note, the court also found that the buyer who refused to close in this case was liable for the commission.

#2 says nothing about the sale closing. It says a commission is earned when a ready, willing and able buyer is procured under the terms specified by the seller.

I should have added this para. which comes after "(3)".

"The commission described in subsection 16a(1) shall be payable at the time of the closing of the Sale...."

As I said, NO Closing, NO pay.

This is how we are protected from sellers who refuse to sell. It doesn't get any more simpler then this. Below is from our listing agreement provide by the NCAR. If your listing agreement does not have something similar, you need to get your association to rewrite your forms.

From what Staggart and Pikes are saying, their sellers can refuse to sell and all their marketing efforts go unrewarded. A buyer can write a full price offer and the seller can counter back with a price higher than the list price? You need to get that fixed.

From our listing agreement:

Such fee shall be deemed earned under any of the following circumstances:
(a) If a ready, willing and able buyer is procured by Firm, a cooperating Real Estate Firm, the Seller, or anyone else during the Term of this Agreement at the price and on the terms set forth herein, or at any price and upon any terms acceptable to the Seller;
(b) If the Property is sold, exchanged, conveyed or transferred, or the Seller agrees to sell, exchange, convey or transfer the Property at any price and upon any terms whatsoever, during the Term of this Agreement or any renewal hereof;
(c) If, within days after expiration of the Term of this agreement (the “Protection Period”), Seller either directly or indirectly sells, exchanges, conveys or transfers, or agrees to sell, exchange, convey or transfer the Property upon any terms whatsoever, to any person with whom Seller, Firm, or any Cooperating Real Estate Firm communicated regarding the Property during the Term of this Agreement or any renewal hereof, provided the names of such persons are delivered or postmarked to the Seller within 15 days from date of expiration. HOWEVER, Seller shall NOT be obligated to pay such fee if a valid listing agreement is entered into between Seller and another real estate broker and the Property is sold, exchanged, conveyed or transferred during such Protection Period.

Once earned as set forth above, Firm's compensation will be due and payable at the earlier of: (i) closing on the Property; (ii) the Seller's failure to sell the Property (including but not limited to the Seller's refusal to sign an offer to purchase the Property at the price and terms stated herein or on other terms acceptable to the Seller, the Seller's default on an executed sales contract for the Property, or the Seller's agreement with a buyer to unreasonably modify or cancel an executed sales contract for the Property); or (iii) Seller's breach of this Agreement.

Since this (a sellers refusal to sell w/a full price offer) has not happened to me in almost 20 years in the RE biz, I'm not concerned about it.

I had it happen twice between 04 and 05. Not my listings. 2 of my buyers had full price offers shot down by listing agents. Both agents learned how it works and both my buyers got their respective properties.

I have never had it happen on any of my listings in 19 years but we have to cooperate to make a living and it is nice knowing our MLS protects us from weaker agents.

I think I only had it happen once: A Taxidermist's Widow had her house For Sale about 8 months after he passed on. We produced a Full Price CASH Offer without any contingencies; but by then she had a New Beau who thought he'd like to move in and learn the Deceased Husband's Trade (among other things). The Seller said she had changed her mind about selling because she was "In love Again". So we collected the Commission that we had earned on the Installment Plan; 1/6 every month for 6 months. And we sold the Buyer something else.

After 6 months, the New Beau had moved on and we put the property back on the Market W/O the BoyFriend involved. Took another 6 months; but we earned a second Commission. I felt bad for the Widow; but I got over it.

Funny thing about that discarded New Beau; he kind'a just disappeared and was never heard from again . . . . but I suppose that's a whole other story.

I have had a full price offer rejected, because my buyers refused to remove a mortgage contingency. They agreed to accept the house as is, not make it contingent upon appraisal at full sale price...the only contingency was that they would get mortgage approval.

It was a deal being handled with a relocation company. My buyers had a full price offer, were putting 20% down, had a solid pre-approval from a solid local bank, and were ready to close immediately.

Dale, your widow sounds creepy.

They did not want to be in a position to lose their deposit if for some crazy reason they didn't get a mortgage, so the deal fell apart.

This was a very frustrating deal - these buyers were dream buyers. Made an offer on the 3rd house they saw, and it was perfect for them, only a couple miles away from their work. I can't blame them for not removing the contingency...they could have lost over 10,000 if for some reason the bank backed out.

**sigh**

Toe - It's not necessarily that the seller's would counter back with a higher price. Our contracts (i'll point out that our contracts are written by the Realtor Assoc, not the Real Estate Commission) have prewritten contingencies for Financing, Appraisal, Inspection, Title, Insurance, Termite, Disclosure, etc.

You're not saying that my seller would have to accept all of these contingencies just because the purchase price was for full list are you?

They need to list the contingencies in the MLS that they do not want to accept. Otherwise, how is an agent supposed to know how to write the offer.

Perky why didn't they put down a way less earnest money deposit?

Around my way the seller will take way less for earnest money.

Used to buyers could wait until the 11th hour and pull out with a mortgage contingency. Our new contracts have a time limit and then that contingency is waived. Buyers were abusing the mortgage contingency to back out with buyers remorse at the last second (days before closing) It hurt the sellers,listing and selling brokers,etc.

It's just a fact no matter how much you protect there will be a certain level of risk for the buyers. This is why I minimize monetary deposits and try to give the seller other terms that are wins for them.

That's what the seller's relo company demanded.

Well the earnest money was $1,000. The seller demanded a 2nd more substantial deposit within 10 days of signing the contract.

What do your listing agreements say about contingencies? Any contingencies you listed in the MLS would have to be noted in the listing agreement right? (i'm not being difficult, i'm trying to disect this further)

Our offers are the same. The seller should read a copy the offer before they sign the listing agreement so if any of these contingencies will be a problem for them they can put it in writing before they sign the listing agreement. If they don't and they refuse to sell because of a standard contingency then the seller is refusing to sell and owes the listing agent a commission.

When I write an offer on an MLS listing I need to know what terms the seller will accept. If the seller won't accept an offer per their terms as stated or not stated in the MLS, I will be expecting a commission. Our MLS only has a field for the loan contingency but there is always the broker's notes.

The strange part is watching listing agents roll over and letting their sellers do whatever they want as if the listing agreement is not a binding contract.

If the MLS listing did not say cash only you probably could have/should have gotten a commission from the listing broker provided there weren't multiple offers on it.

There was another offer on the table, quite a bit lower than ours.
But at any rate, it was NOT the brokerages fault. I wouldn't have even considered going after the broker for the commission...the listing agent was just as frustrated as I was. The sellers got screwed by having to sell their home for less because of the relocation company. This was also the least deal in this area that the relocation company was doing (supposedly) so that would have been a dead horse too. Not worth the aggravation and heaven knows how much money in legal fees!

You would not have incurred any legal fees. The MLS typically will take care of the situation between you and the listing broker for free.

It was the listing brokerages fault for not holding the seller to the terms of the the listing contract. If the listing agent would have stood up to the relo company they would have backed down to avoid paying 2 commissions, the seller would have made more money and your clients would have gotten the property they wanted. Some agents don't realize a listing agreement is actually an enforceable contract.

Both times this happened to me I didn't worry about the aggravation and I got the properties for my clients.

I'll keep this in mind if it ever happens again - it's all water under the bridge now, unfortunately. I do not know the details of the listing contract so I can't really comment with any kind of authority WHAT the brokerage would have or should have done.