In my State, there are rules in the Occupational code that makes certain practices illegal. Many agents openly violate these rule and the State does not inforce them.

If I decide to just follow the herd and violate these rule too, is it an Ethics violation, even if the State isn't inforcing rules? If so, can anyone tell what part of the Ethics Code is being violated???

Your post is vague enough that it would be hard to tell if your concerns about violating an Occupational Code are applicable or not. I don't think looking for an ethics violation over something that may be illegal is the right approach though.

Since the NAR Code of Ethics only applies to Realtors, and there are many licensed agebnts that are not Realtors, the first question needs to be if what they are doing is legal or not. If it is illegal then it becomes a law enforcement issue, not an ethics problem. If it is legal then you can move to the question of it being ethical.

[quote=Mr. Foreclosure]Your post is vague enough that it would be hard to tell if your concerns about violating an Occupational Code are applicable or not. I don't think looking for an ethics violation over something that may be illegal is the right approach though.

Since the NAR Code of Ethics only applies to Realtors, and there are many licensed agebnts that are not Realtors, the first question needs to be if what they are doing is legal or not. [color:#FF0000]If it is illegal then it becomes a law enforcement issue, not an ethics problem[/color]. If it is legal then you can move to the question of it being ethical. [/quote]

Yes, I realize that the Code of Ethics applies only to realtors, with that said, are you saying, with your comment above, that something can be illegal and not be an ethics violation??

An ethics violation is an ethics violation. Whether your state enforces its occupational codes or not - the NAR code of ethics is still enforceable through the Association.

GreatLakesBroker:

What I am saying is that if you are concerned about a violation of an Occupational Code it is a legal matter not an ethics matter. As a legal matter if it is a law that is violated then some form of prosecution may be the judicial remedy. The ethics issues are not a legal matter but rather an agreement to abide by standards of conduct issued by the organization. The organization may address members failing to abide by those standards through their own rules.

Much of the NAR Code of Ethics is a reflection of legal requirements, though I'm not aware that your state's Occupational Code is one of them. If you are looking at bringing the violators into legal compliance, then the legal system, not the Code of Ethics, is the course to follow.

I know of no where in the NAR Code of Ethics where it passes judgement on the legality of practices that may be regulated by your state's Occupational Code, simply put they are different subjects.

Mr. Foreclosure

Following the herd is not always the best way to go, let your moral values weigh in and you will go in the right direction.
If the codes need to be revamped, seek legislation in that direction.

Blueeyes

Second sentence in our COE:

"While the Code of Ethics establishes obligations that may be higher than those mandated by law, in any instance where the Code of Ethics and the law conflict, the obligations of the law must take precedence."

Here is one code that probably gets violated, but also has penalties:

http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/datafiles/1990s/op10049.htm

That's just one.

My point with the question, was to try and point out to people (especially in Michigan) that if you are doing BPO's for a fee, in almost every case, you're violating the Occupational Code, and by doing so as a Realtor, you are trampling the Code of Ethics.

Technically, I do not think you are allowed to do them legally in PA, either, but the language is kind of murky enough that many get away with it (by saying they're hoping to get a listing out of it...)

I find there are a lot of practices that are in violation of the "rules" or ethics codes. This does not make it right. Just because they are not actively enforced, does not mean that won't someday be enforced.
For example, in my area-- it's not permitted to advertise a rental unit as "no pets" or "adults only"... but I've read soo many ads with this. I've even talked to several agents who had no idea this was not allowed by law and had been advising their clients in this way.
Don't follow the herd-- it could be a costly mistake in the future. I find a lot of those in the industry are simply not aware of what the codes or laws actually say. Educate the ones you can, in a polite and respectful way... and if they continue, that's their problem. They will be the ones to face consequences in the future. Talk to your broker about it if it becomes a problem. They should know the legalities and should enforce them.

If it is wrong it does not matter how many others are already doing it. It is still wrong.

Whether it is wrong according to the law or it is wrong because of the ethical implications does not matter. Wrong is wrong. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

I may never be a millionaire but I will never change who I am, forget about how I was raised or sell my soul for money. The choice is yours. Do the right thing or the wrong thing-the difference between right/wrong is not whether you get caught or not. Something is wrong because it is wrong.

As my mother said, and probably everbody else's too: If everybody jumps off a building are you going to do it also? Just because the herd is wrong does not mean you have the right to forget about right/wrong.

Is it really? What if it's ok to do BPO's in 48 of 50 states? (like it probably is)
Or, racial segregation is legal in 48 of 50 states?

Just because something is legal does not make it "right and ethical".

Ya lost me...what's the problem with doing BPO's in MI & PA?

[quote=ManFromTheBand]Ya lost me...what's the problem with doing BPO's in MI & PA? [/quote]

In Michigan, BPO's or other forms of valuation performed by a real estate licensee (Broker or sales person) can only be performed in the persuit of a listing or assisting a buyer. (loose translation) Only a Broker can charge a fee when performing those services.

A sales person performing a BPO, legally or not, can not charge a fee for that service. The Code clearly states that the fee can be charged only when the Broker PERFORMS the service.

When the State Licensing Board cracks down on this, and they will, many agents and Brokers will be in hot water.

It may take a law suit, and from your description it might wind up being a class action of representing a lot of brokers, to determine if such a restriction is enforceable. I see the possibility that it might be considered a "restraint of trade" to forbid charging a fee for a service that the person is qualified to perform.