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#26581 - 10/22/06 04:14 AM Client disclosure
Catherine Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2
Loc: London, Ontario
We are not happy with our agent because we have caught her in a few lies.

The first lie was after our first open house. She told people that were interested in putting an offer on our home that "they already had an offer" and the people replied "oh well we don't want to get involved in a bidding war" and didn't bring forth an offer. She tells me this!!

So I asked her "oh we have one offer. Great what is it?"
She replies, "well I don't know yet as it is from an agent in our office who has told me his clients will be offering one".
My reply "well stop discouraging other people by telling them we have an offer when we don't"
Her reply "well I have to be honest and the fact is that we do have an offer"
My reply "great what is it?"
Her reply "well I don't have it yet so I don't know"
As you can see this went around in a circle for a while with her not changing her position that she tell everyone who was interested in our house that we already had an offer. The result was we only got one offer out of the 5 people she said expressed interest.

WE ended up with an offer the next day and we never did meet on a price and the offer dropped.
We did get a second offer a few days later and that one included a building inspection as a condition.
Which we had no problem with as we had renovated the house to be perfect for an older home.

The building inspector found "vermiculite" insulation and warned the buyers. Our agent came to us and said, "they are still interested in the house but they want to know if you will remove it". She didn’t get anything by way of a counter offer or present anything to us in writing.

We said "yes" and I set up people to come through the house to remove it.
The day the people came to remove it She calls to tell me that the offer fell through.
They didn't feel comfortable with the removal.

During the removal one of the guys had an accident and stepped through the floor. They took a week because the ceiling had to be replaced which was done. I called and told my agent that she could not show the house until we fix up the mess and why there was a mess.

That following weekend she came to us and said "now you know we have to tell everyone that you had vermiculite removed"
I said "NO" it should not come up. She said, "Well people have driven by and saw the workers trucks".
The trucks had demo and renovation written on there. We told her that. She looked away and said "well people know". We informed her the only way people know is if you told them. She replied well it is true and people need to be aware of it. Besides she said, “After I tell the agents they are still interested in taking clients through. I said “well we had one bombed offer because of it being there and I don’t want to scare anyone else, especially since it isn't there any longer” She states “well that was just because he was a first time buyer and got scared” I reminded her that our house is a house for first time buyers. That first time buyers are our market”.

We reminded her and got her to repeat it that IF and ONLY IF someone asks you or I straight out "does or did this house have vermiculite" then yes answer the question, but it should not be a big warning initially about our house. She agreed that it would not be brought up again (she had already told everyone that called and every agent that inquired about it) but had us do a footnote on the disclosure form saying that the vermiculite was professionally removed. This then would only come up if someone had an offer on the house.

She had an open house and our friends went through the house to see how she handled herself. The first thing my friend said was "wow it smells like new paint" (we did repaint a room in spots). OUR realtor says "well legally I am bound to tell you that they had vermiculite professionally removed and during it one of the workers fell through the ceiling so it is a brand new ceiling". My friends asked what vermiculite is and she started to tell them that it is the latest scare that people are staying away from like the UFFI was. She also proceeded to tell other people walking through and produce documentation from the Ministry of Health web page warning.

After the open house I went to her and asked why she lied to me saying that it would not come up when it was the first thing and ONLY thing that people were spending any time with her on. She said, "Oh I never brought it up. I didn't talk about it". I laughed and said, "That is bull**** as our friends went through and that is exactly what you told them. AND you told them that a worker fell through the ceiling?? She said well I put a positive spin on the negatives. She said well morally and legally I am bound to disclose this.

We asked why she lied then because she had told us the word would not pass through her lips unless someone directly asked "was there or is there vermiculite insulation".

She then suggested that maybe someone overheard a phone conversation. She stated that someone called about the house and she was on the phone telling them about the Vermiculite so maybe our friends just over heard that conversation. OMG If my friends over heard it...then everyone else is too...and the person on the phone?? Who was that she was blabbing to?

I asked her "and where does confidentiality come into play with us? You have blabbed to everyone that will listen to you about what the defects are in this house! She said, "Well I will look into what legally I have to say and not say. Besides I told the agents bringing people through that you had vermiculite and that is why your original offer didn't close and they are still coming through."

So I said to her "so you are telling other agents what conditions were not met on our previous offer"? She started to squirm and replied, "well they asked me" ... I said, "Who are you working for?? Because it is not us. You are under no obligation to disclose what went on between seller and buyer. That is between the seller and the buyer". OMG this women is killing the sale of our house. Not only that but is she also telling other agents what we have previously accepted for price let alone conditions ??

I have to think yes, she is freely telling other agents about our offers and the conditions...because when we accepted our offer the young guy came through with the building inspector. He sat down and told me it was a stressful thing to put an offer in. He said "but our agent is good as he said that 'well they had another offer that included appliances that they considered so maybe you should ask for them too' so we did".

We have now sat on the market for 2 weeks and it could have been sold if handled correctly in the first week, we had so much interest that was killed by our agent.

So my questions are:
1. Are agents legally bound to disclose a "non-issue" such as vermiculite that has been professionally removed ...if it is no longer there ?
2. Are agents legally bound to tell other agents why offers fell through ?
3. how do I now get rid of this lying agent ?
4. is there any compensation for me against this agent for any loss of time ??

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#26582 - 10/22/06 03:08 PM Re: Client disclosure
super realtor Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 05/01/05
Posts: 8475
Loc: georgia
1.It isn't a "non-issue" you just wish it was and would go away like all sellers and you wouldn't have to disclose it.If the first inspector found it the others would too so you had to fix it anyway.Even selling as-is the disclosure forms will ask you the seller to list repairs on the property.If you knowingly omit information you could be held liable with a lawsuit in the future.As an agent you have to disclose material facts that are pertinent to the property over the interest of the seller when not disclosing could be considered fraudulent activity by not disclosing.

2.No,unless it relates to a material fact that must be disclosed.Example,heavy mold was found.The buyer will find out sooner or later so better to disclose upfront and see if they are still interested.

3.Check your agreement call the head broker and ask for a new agent or to cancel the contract.

4.Doubtful/You can contact an attorney but your property could be tied up in litigation for a long time pending a ruling and you want to sell.

I am in the u.s. so things might be different where you are.

Not giving legal advice

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#26583 - 10/22/06 06:04 PM Re: Client disclosure
Catherine Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2
Loc: London, Ontario
Well it was removed professionally. it was not tested and "could have" been perfectly fine. We choose to just remove it. I fail to understand how anyone would be justified in sueing us over a renovation that does not pose a structural change or health risk (if located in a sealed space such as an attic). However yes it was a concern obviously or we would not have had it removed. If it has to "legally" be disclosed that a removal was done, then I would feel that an agent working in the seller's best interest would not be blabbing that to anyone who expresses an interest. It will be disclosed to anyone who is interested in putting in an offer as it is already a footnote on the official Seller Disclosure sheet, why wave a red flag before anyone has a chance to view or appreciate all the renovations and beautiful house and why lie about the fact that you are doing it when you agreed not to.

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#26584 - 10/22/06 08:59 PM Re: Client disclosure
RealtorBarbaraT Offline
Member

Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 452
Loc: Wantagh, NY
I am thinking you had better sell this on your own...... I for one would not handle the sale knowing I could lose my license by omitting facts.
_________________________
Century 21 American Homes
http://newhorizonsrealtyteam.com
http://www.wantaghrealtorbarbaratretola.com

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#26585 - 10/22/06 11:42 PM Re: Client disclosure
pikes peak Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 2744
Loc: CO
The seller is not trying to hide anything. The seller does not want to have their agent blabber everything about the property or owner to everyone who walks through the door. The seller’s property disclosure is all that is required to be filled out truthfully and given to a prospective buyer, who has made a written offer.
Also, in the absence of a written offer in hand, the agent has no cause to tell people there is an offer in existence when there is none.
The seller’s agent is not representing their seller IAW established RE ethics and guidelines.

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#26586 - 10/23/06 09:26 AM Re: Client disclosure
Paul Oaks Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 3370
Loc: Central Illinois
Catherine,
This agent is not giving you good representation. You have had the problem professionally remediated and have noted it on the seller disclosure form. That is all that is necessary and your agent should not be immediately bringing it up in conversation. This agent is an amature and cannot get her stories straight. You need to go to her broker and request a different agent from the office to represent you. Should the broker refuse them ask to be released. If the broker refuses make sure you let him know you plan to file ethics charges against the agent.
_________________________
Paul Oaks
Oaks Real Estate Group

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