I've done some dumb things in my lifetime, but, I think this one takes the cake........

I received an order for an interior. I contact the POC....conversation kind of went like this....."There is no lock box.....bring a screw driver and flash light"....(screw driver?)....I ask why the screw driver......was told I had to remove screws from storm door to make entry (first red flag). The triplex was boarded up due to a fire months back...good reason for flash light...lol.

Basic info on property: 3 units, 2200 GLA, built in the mid-50's....the reason why I gave this info is to see if any of you can see where this is leading...

I show up at the subject property. I take my trusty screw driver and make entry. I turn on my flash light.....the smell was just one step from throwing up.....It's fairly obvious that the fire started in this unit.....fire department had ripped the sheet rock from the ceilings in order to gain access to the rafters.....insulation all over the floor... I see mold on the walls from many months of the contained moisture.....Anybody getting the picture yet?.....I continue walking through the burned out units taking pictures, and walking through the insulation on the floor....I see more mold......flash light starts to act up....on...off....on..off
....kind of like it was telling me to get out of there. The stupid part of me says "keep on goin'" .....POC said floors were all slab....wrong!!!!!.....partial slab and raised foundation at the rear.....wood subfloor is gone....flash light was working then....I make two trips through the units taking pictures.....so dark inside you couldn't see your hand in front of your face......flash light says "no more" and shuts down....I'm stuck in the middle unit and have to feel my way out.....I can see some light...yep, it's the front door I left open.......I finally get outside, and start sucking in some clean air (at least cleaner that what I was previously breathing). I walk the outside of the units...gas meters still in place and valve is not locked out (a bomb in the making?). Then, that little light went off in my head (not the flashlight...lol) and told me how stupid I was.

Has anybody figured this out yet, besides making entry in the first place?.......Mold?.....yep......Subflooring gone?...yep
.....here's the biggy......when was the house built?....mid-50's...exposed insulation and mostly on the floors....In homes of that era, what was usually in the insulation....asbestos...

I emailed the BPO company, called the POC, and included in my report......POSSIBLE ASBESTOS....DO NOT ALLOW ENTRY UNTIL INSULATION HAS BEEN TESTED.....In my past life I worked at oil refineries and am fairly educated in this area....Can I say it's there for sure?.....No...but, the odds are it is, due to age of property.

Now, you may ask, "why did I post this....just to show you how stupid I was?"......Naaaaaaaaa, y'all know I'm dumb as dirt already.......I post this, in hopes, that all that read it, don't make the same STUPID. STUPID, mistake I did. I wasn't paying attention and there is no excuse.

Woa man. I hope it wasn't asbestos but I will certainly learn from your mistakes.

Candy man, I guess you weren't listening to the little inner voice of reason! Thanks for sharing.

I'm sure that a short exposure to the asbestos won't hurt you at all. It was people who worked with it every day that had such bad problems. Nevertheless, we do some pretty silly things for a few bucks. I would be more concerned that the floor was missing and your means of seeing it didn't work properly. We must step back and realize that a property may be unsafe to do our job and just take enough pics and recommend that it be torn down. It probably wouldn't have taken many pics to draw that conclusion.
You all be careful out there.

I never do interiors on condemned buildings....period...It simply is not worth the pennys they pay for this info...my health and well being is much more valuable than they could ever pay me...I am fairly certain this building was plastered with condemned paperwork!!! and a screwdriver for entry!!! you might want to use that on your brain... because its falling out!!! LOL...your call... but I would have given that one back and never given it a second thought...

Alrighty! Listen to me!!! NEVER, EVER USE A SCREWDRIVER TO ENTER A HOUSE. NEVER, EVER GO INTO ANY STRUCTURE THAT HAS HAD A FIRE!!!!! NEVER. EVER.

These are basic safety concerns. If the insurance company in their infinite wisdom hasn't replaced the door, there's a reason! A burned structure can come down in a heartbeat. This isn't CanDo telling you this, it's the fire department telling you this.

The age of the structure is unimportant. What it was, is unimportant. BPO? Please, tell them to get a copy of the insurance investigator's report, a copy of the fire department's report and any local news coverage. You know that question on most forms regarding damage? Say there was a fire and leave it at that!

We are real estate agents, we are being paid as real estate agents! We are not being paid as arson investigators, insurance investigators, general contractors or appraisers! What were you thinking? That $$$$ wasn't worth it, really it wasn't.

Okay, I do have a ray of sunshine. Asbestos, unless it is friable (meaning you can see it floating in the air or see strips of it on surfaces), is a-okay. So I don't think you breathed any in.

I'm sorry if I yelled, I just cannot believe that once you got there, you thought it would be okay to continue the inspection. Land value only. Clean up costs will outweigh restoration.

CanDo

Spank me.....beat me with a bat....This has got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever done.

When I talked with the POC, he said he used to work for a contruction company that did re-habs on this type of building. The fire happened about 8 months ago....he also had made entry......not making excuses......just painting my stupidity trail.

The subject property was located in an area known for drugs and drive by's.....think this is where I was first focused...While taking the exteriors, I did note some some minor smoke trails etched above a few of the boarded up windows. The city never posted this property as condemned and there was no caution tape across all points of entry...nada...

At the time I made entry is when I should have backed away. It was fairly obvious, this was where the fire started. That little voice inside just refused to kick in....or I just wasn't listening.....at that point is when I should have passed this back to the company. I'm not sure what possessed me to go further, other than being curious.....another stupid move. As for the asbestos issue, it becomes friable when you start walking through it.....also clings to your skin and clothing....once it becomes airborne is where the danger issue lies....

There is no excuse for this type of stupidity. My focal point was the neighborhood and not the dwelling. I'll take all the heat the forum can generate......If I can reach members with this post....to make them think before acting...to evaluate prior to proceeding.....it's obvious that I didn't. As Forest Gump said....STUPID ARE AS STUPID IS.....

PS:......Another lesson learned....never borrow another persons flashlight.

I have done a few fires, all they get is a couple of pictures from the front door (or thru a window) of the damage.....THAT'S IT. Ok I will take a couple of the roof caving in.............LOL

I have been doing BPOs rather fearlessly for about a year. Unless I get to the property and it is in a rough area and I can tell someone is inside I will usually go inside. I tromp around in overgrown yards, etc. This was until "the incident". Back in August I was doing a second opinion interior. I was going around the side yard to get a rear shot when I stepped in a hole in the ground and fell down. The problem was when I fell my body twisted around and my foot stayed in the hole- in the other direction. The grass had just been cut and you couldn't even see the hole because it was full of grass. As I layed there on the ground writhing in ridiculous incredible pain completely out of sight from any neighbors or passers-by, I thought to myself "WOW I am really stupid for not paying attention to where I was walking". I laid there for a few minutes to realize that a nearby hosebib was leaking and I was now soaking wet! I got up, caught my breath, and hobbled to my car. Luckily it was my left ankle so I could still drive home. I am still suffering from the effects of that injury, but it forced me to realize two things: I am not a kid anymore and don't heal as quickly as I used to, and I need to be WAAAAAAAY more careful in these properties!

I know that is a long story to make a stupid point, but don't let yourself get hurt just to realize you need to be more careful.

Candy, if I yelled, it's because there was structural damge, my concern is for you!!!! It's not worth the $$$. The BPO company/mill/AMC will not say "atta boy"! Really they won't.

I know, I know. What's done is done. The next time, listen to your little voice, okay? Even if you have to wait a few seconds.

It just is not worth it. If someone else says they'd do it. Let them.

CanDo

I take no issue with the yelling...no worse than what I did to myself for a few hours after this adventure. I know where my head was.....just can't put it in print...lol. I'm still looking back to see how I boxed myself in....The obvious was there and I wasn't paying attention. With all my years in this business, having a maintenance backround, and serving on safty teams...just makes no sense. It's rare for me to be blind sided......and I did it to myself....nobody else to blame.

I started this thread. with hopes of reaching our members...the basics are simple...no matter how long we've been in this business, no matter what past back rounds we come from, no matter how smart we think we are.....we can still have our STUPID MOMENTS.......If I reach only one person in this forum.....make them think before they act......then, the embaressment of me telling the whole world, "I was stupid" was worth it.

This was one of those distant orders....30 miles each way. I can just imagaine what the other drivers thought, as I drove by, beating my head on the steering wheel...lol..and to top it off, I have to go back into the same area today for pictures on another order.....This should be a trip down memory lane..

You're very lucky Lacey ! In an area with municipal Sewers, it's probably just a plain "Hole". I've had people step into depressions above old deteriorating Steel Septic Tanks, and then not be able to extract their legs because the nasty old rusty corroded metal is now pointed downward and digging into their leg as they are trying to retrieve it . . . . all the while, their lacerated leg is submerged in sewage.

This happened to an adult Building Inspector working on a "Fixer Upper" I had For Sale and, luckily, he blamed himself. Since that time, I can't help but think . . . . what if it had been somebody's small child who "disappeared" into the 500 or 750 gallon Septic Tank or CessPool ?

Be thankful for Municipal Waste Water Disposal Systems and Concrete or FiberGlass Septic Tanks.

Would have NEVER entered the place,snapped a few pictures from the door. The few $$$ your making are not worth the loss to your family if somethimg would have happened. If the client dosen't understand, its a client not worth having.... just my 2cents

"That little voice inside just refused to kick in....or I just wasn't listening....."

LOL! Act first, think later! I know all too well what the aftermath of that feels like! Or...TALK first, think later..That's even worse!

E4E

When I look back at this, the little voice inside was working, especially after talking with the POC. He just didn't elaborate on how extensive the damage. The voice kept saying "You don't want to do this one". Trust me, I procrastinated on this till the end. From the exterior, it just looked like the normal boarded up home (with the exception of some small smoke trails etched in the siding). When I got the door opened, I must have had a brain seizure or the brain batteries went dead....common sense went out the window. At that point, it was obvious that entry should not be made.

When I look back at this stupidity in motion, I think I was too focused on the neighborhood (lots of drug dealers and a ton of shootings). Again, that's no excuse.....just trying to sort out the issues. It ain't goin' happen again.......trust me......this one will stay with me forever.

Why did you even get out of the car?... except to buy drugs??? LOL... just kinding... I am glad you are still here and we can joke about it around the water cooler!

Fire properties are a unique animal. You should always wear a charcoal mask anyways as you don't know about mold,meth,etc. in the property.

If the tri was made out of brick then you can gut and redo them.

Most of the time you will look at land value only.

Some properties can be rehabilitated it depends on the amount fo the fire damage.

I am looking at an investment property now. Knowone wants to touch it because of the fire damage. The broker won't say the extent so I will have to go an see. The lender already probably has an insurance payout from the loss. If the fire is contained to 1 ro 2 rooms then it can be remediated. If it went multiple levels up the walls into the roof then the cost will outweigh any benefit and it will be lot value only.

I know exactly how you feel! I have a long list of things that I am kicking myself for doing as I always act before I think. We can just chalk it up learning it the hard way! ;)

Look on the bright side! At least you didn't get shot! :)

Maybe it's my old age, but if the access instructions are "use a screwdriver" or "climb in a window" or anything other than "the key is in the lockbox", I call the originating company and tell them to reassign.

LaceyF. Hope you are healing and didn't do any permanent damage. I had a similar incident in May, except it was an occupied house in a great neighborhood. Like your house, the yard had just been mowed, and I didn't see a hole in the front yard as I was walking back to my car. This was a small hole, but it was large enough to catch my right foot and keep it planted as I feel on my left side on a concrete driveway. I had to drive home with my left foot. With that little unseen hole I fractured my right ankle and tore two of the tendons on that ankle. When I had surgery in July the surgeon said I actually shredded the tendons, and he had to trim them so they could be reattached with screws. He also had to reattach the fractured bone and rebuild the foot. Needless to say I was not able to put any weight on that foot - or drive - for over 3 months. I'm now in physical therapy, and the surgeon says it will be 1 - 1-1/2 years before it is totally healed. I'm just grateful that it could be repaired. Sorry for the long story, but we all need to be careful even at the best of properties. You just never know what can cause an accident that can cause a big change in our lives.

I haven't had the troubles that LaceyF or Candyman have had, but I have done some interiors that kind of gave me the creeps. Our little town is pretty safe, meth is just starting to become a factor in this rural area. But sometimes I will take an interior in the big city near us. I've had a couple in bad neighborhoods and always lock the door behind me. My husband is also notified of where I am and when he can expect a call back. If no call from me he's to get help. There's been a couple of houses I've done, where it wouldn't surprise me to find a body in the basement or one of the closets. Is that just me being paranoid??? but like I said a couple of these houses have really given me the creeps. Thank goodness nothing bad to report except for thousands of dollars damage to the inside of the house. One of them was also the cutest home with a fireplace and what were once beautiful hardwood floors.

I had a interior a few weeks ago Upon arriving I found it was fire damaged badly. I took pics of all four sides, the caving roof, and the burned out windows. I emailed them to the AM with instructions on how to proceed. Land only of course.
But I did consider going in. The little voice said DONT YOU DARE. After reading your post CM I will now always make a point to listen to that voice. Who knows? If you hadn't told your story the next one I may have entered. I'd like to say I didn't enter on account of that little voice but really, it was cold out and I wanted to get back in my warm car. Great post, shame on you, and thanks for looking out for the rest of us in the Idiot Club (I am a paying member)

HATTER

You just made my New Year's ......Thank you.....That was the purpose of the post...just to make everyone aware, that no matter how much experience we have, no matter how old we are, we can make stupid mistakes....listen to that inner voice and use some common sense.

I think, after reviewing this in my mind, over and over again, I was focused on the neighborhood (shootings and drugs). This is not a valid excuse, as there is none.

I do know, it's changed my method of operation when doing interiors.....

even if asbestos fibers were kicked up into the air, it's very unlikely that one exposure incident would have any effect on your health.

but you're right...it's easy to forget that older homes in disrepair contain toxic substances.

Shanna

I'm not sure what you back round is when you made the statement about asbestos. In my previous life I worked in a field where asbestos was part of the job. My employers spent a great deal of time and expense to school me in this area. Yearly, we had class's to keep us updated. At one point in my career I was the lead person on our company safety team. More than once I shut down a job site due to asbestos exposure.

Asbestos only becomes a health hazard when it becomes airborn. If you're walking though it there are things you have to consider. It will stick to your clothing, skin, and hair. That, in turn, can become airborn once you start to clean up, remove your clothing, brush your hair, etc.......thus exposing others to the same problem. Any exposure to asbesto is bad. Once inhaled, it will stick to the lining of your lungs. That's when the first damage starts to occur. It takes approximately 20 years for the damgage to surface (cancer, etc). If you're a smoker, you have increased the possibility of damage by 20 times.....not very good odds.

Another point to consider is injesting into your stomach...you have it on your hands, which in turn can touch your food...thus the same process starts.

Am I an expert in this field?.....no way and no claim...I've just had the schooling in this area which the general public hasn't. I post this to make members of the forum aware that ANY EXPOSURE TO ASBESTOS IS BAD.

Well my grandfather died from lung cancer and never smoke and drank in his life. But he was an audio engineer and installed the sound system in all of the old buildings where I grew up and that includes the John Deere world headquarter...although that wasn't an older building, and he did get the patent for part of his system.

But that also includes alot of old churches and other such buildings. He had no reason to die of lung cancer except for his exposure to asbestos.

sure, and let's not forget the auto mechanics working in brake shops exposed to asbestos. if you're exposed to airborn asbestos on a daily basis for a long period of time, it is a very serious health hazard.

but as I said, in ONE incident where the material (may) have contained asbestos, and some of it (may) have become airborn, that's not enough exposure to cause major concern. of course, consult a physician, environmental engineer and biohazard specialist for professional opinions.

Shanna

I'm happy to see you're still the same.....would be worried, otherwise....It appears your mission in life is to see if you can get somebody to debate with you, and in turn, shut a thread down.

You have nothing to debate with, as apparently you have no knowledge in this area. Debating this with you would be like running a foot race with a one legged man....your comment about consulting a environmental engineer or biohazard specialist makes jest up something serious. My post was directed at our forum members, to be aware, and realize it is serious....Of course, the more exposure, the higher the risk. But, once it's inside your lungs and stuck to the walls, the process starts. You might want to try and do a little research, if for nothing else, but for your own health and safety.

People can learn all they want at www.epa.gov

All I have to say is learn and make your income with your mind so you won't have to be around toxic substances.

Radon is also a silent killer seldom tested for but is a mani cause of cancer.

I don't worry when I will go I just live to the fullest the time I am here. That's about all any of us can do.

Super

I agree with you........Live life to the fullest...and the older I get, the more I practice it.....lol

well Candyman, I was hoping to make you feel better, because in your first post you seemed very upset at yourself for doing something admittedly "stupid". It's unfortunate that you do not appreciate my interest in your psychological health.

the fact is, we are exposed to potentially harmful substances on a daily basis, including the air we breath. so, worrying about it is pointless.

Candy Man,
I think very highly of you for posting this incidence, so that everyone can learn from your experience. You POC was obligated to tell you of the dangers. If the place has toxic hazards, then no one can enter without the proper protective gear. Usually this is done by professionals that are highly paid to enter.

I live in fear that this could happen to another agent visiting one of my listings, and I would do anything to protect those from entering dangerous properties. I come into all my properties wearing safety glasses and boots.

I would recommend you going to a environmental doctor and get checked out. I would also go to a pulmonologist if you think you even had one exposure to asbestos. The POC should be held accountable for use acting diligently.

Thanks for the reminder to proceed through open doors carefully.

Candyman, I just read all these posts and just want to add that sharing what you did shows what kind of person you are. I'm a newby to the BPO side of RE and I have found very few agents who are willing to help with getting good contacts. This site has restored my faith in Realtors and I believe those of you who are posting Pay it Forward type entries are the cream of the crop, confident in who you are, and in the knowledge that your work ethic will keep you in business. To have the courage to share a huge mistake is rarely seen - we want others to think we never make mistakes - to know some would yell at you on line and call you foolish takes a person who is confident with who they are - I know my job on earth (while I"m trying to make a living) is to make a difference in someone's life. You are doing that Candyman - by your honest sharing of your episode. I say thanks - this site is terrific !

I agree, the honesty in sharing the incident as an experienced agent, makes any of us newbies take another look at how eager we are to complete an order, do a good job, fulfill our obligation and many times at our own risk. Several times I have had to call back to tell a company the order should be passed on, unfortunately it may be hours after I have accepted the order. I know they weren't happy with the call but some signs are just too blatant to compromise. I always feel somewhat guilty ( kind of like why did I say I would do bpos in this area?? LA or whoever doesn't know which are the " ok areas, or which properties are the "treacherous areas or dangerous to the appraiser?"
I remember one case where the lister said, you might want to take a mask, there's a serious mold problem. I took my mask and went in anyway. Do I think I'm desperate for $$, no! but why did I go ahead with the order? $80. you've got to be kidding! I know it doesn't compare, but my point is that for whatever the reason, if you feel you are taking a risk, it's not worth it!
Call and decline the order asap, and move on! There's always another bpo, another company. You aren't always fired, sometimes you have to fire the company if declining that type of propery makes a difference..... I don't think it makes any difference to the assigner at all, it just moves on to the next blast or email. So they notate your account that you declined an order after you accepted, so what!

Cal Broker

I was surprised to see this thread come back to life. I was even more surprised to see how many views.

I didn't hesitate one second in putting this post together. I knew I would be getting spanked from some of our members. It was no big deal.....as I had already beat myself up over the stupidity, just short of bleeding.....lol. Ignorance and stupidity are two seperate masters. I just happen to fit the second one. I've changed my whole approach in doing interiors. I would really be embarrassed, if on my head stone read, "Here lies Stupid, Stupid". Tonight, I re-read some of the posts in this thread. There were some great posts from our members.....my intent, was to make "all aware", and I think that was accomplished. That same process we were taught as kids, " think before you act" failed me as I sure wasn't thinking. I'm grateful that our forum hosts allowed this tread to run..it was starting to have the ear marks of another one frozen in time.

CandyMan... I was inspecting a property in pre-list today and your post came to my mind as I started walking through tall weeds in the yard for a photo shot of the rear of the house. It was a sunny, warm day so I was in sandals. My tennis shoes are usually in the trunk ofmy car, but I switched cars today so I didn't have them. It's funny how quickly I thought about your post after weeding through a few feet in the yard. It just made me more aware of little unforseen dangers that we sometimes just don't think about. I decided I could come back for the pics later... in blue jeans and proper shoes. This may sound petty, but I thought about a couple other posts in response to your's where the agents were injured due to little situations like this. We often become complacent with our safety in our everyday REO tasks. Your shared experience should be valued by all... thanks for the posts and thanks to everyone else for sharing their stories!

PB

That's one of the great things about this forum...the caring and sharing......I truely do care about people...By posting my story in this forum, has made others think prior to putting themselves in harms way,........well, I'm at a loss for words. We all profit by sharing our experiences ....good or bad.

Thanks, PB....I was burnt out tonight.....long week....your post waa a great pickmeup.........

METH LAB??? ok... was I being pathetically stupid today??? I finally got a new assignment fron PAS. It's been awhile, so I got pretty excited. Actually, I got 2 in the past 2 days. The first one was vacant... no big concerns other than the rat infestation! The stinch inside gave me a 6 hr MAJOR headace. Got over the headache to wake up to a new assignment from PAS this morning. Thought to myself... oh good, this can't be as bad as yesterday's assignment! Wrong! This was located in a good neighborhood in a rural section of town. I drive by the property to determine if it appears to be occcupied. Well about 12-15 autos plus a boat and motorcycles indicates it's definitely occupied. Report it as "occupied" to PAS...

Next assignment immediately follows.... to make contact with occupants and determine names and number of occupants, etc (you know the drill). OK, so I decide to wait until 6:00 PM to take hubbie with me and hoping most vehicles will be gone (assuming most are day workers on a 3 acre property). Wrong... we get there and all the same vehicles from afternoon are still on property. Knock on door.... occupant answers but says she's just visiting. She says she has no idea how many people live on the property (large main residence plus a VERY MODEST illegal 2nd dwelling). She said she'll have the owner call me when he gets home. When walking back to my car, I noticed two 50 gallon drums with tubes running to a pump and another line runing from the pump to the house. I noticed fumes near the drums that smelled like gas. I quickly took photos of this and returned to my car. When leaving, I had to drive past the 2nd illegal dwellig on the property. A hispanic family was congregated outside. I stopped the car and asked if the owner was there. They said no, so I asked if they also lived here.... they said yes. I took a few more quick photos of the 2nd dwelling and left.

The owner called me on my cell phone within 15 minutes. Said I had no authority to trespass on "his" property (keep in mind that it was foreclosed in October and is located in a non-redemption state). The owner said he was in litigation with the bank and said "haven't I heard about all the occupant's rights that were enacted in the past 6 months"??? He said he will have his attorney call me in the morning and he advised me that I destroy any photos that I took, as they were obtained illegally! He also said that I should not ever come on the property again, as he would hate to find me shot! My suspicions of a meth lab quickly intensified but I've never had first hand experience to seeing one (thank god) and don't know the signs to identify one from an exterior inspection!. Those 50 gallon partially buried drums with hose lines connected to the pump and to the house made me VERY suspicious! And his threats demanding that I destroy all photos only re-inforced my suspicion. Before he hung up he again said "you understand that you are NOT to turn those photos over to anyone, including the bank, right"!

So in retrospect, I think it was REALLY REALLY stupid of me to knock on the door, and was even dumber for me to not recognize the wierd contraption with pump, tanks and tubes connected to the house before I knocked on the door! But I felt I had to let the bank know of the potentially dangerous environment, so I took the photos on my way out.

If anyone knows anything about recognizing signs of a Meth Lab from the exterior, pls let me know! It would be nice to recognize this before knocking on a door. Maybe I am paranoid, but this guy definitely led me to believe he was doing something he wants nobody to know about! And the doggone place looked like a compound! If I had the chance to repeat this task, I wouldclooke a little closer before walking up the steps to the house and I would have never knocked on the door. I should have taken a "quick" photo of the tanks, pump and lines and ran like a bat out of hell with no introduction! Any comments???

PB

Any comments?........How about "lucky girl" for starters. If that's a lab, this guy has to be dumber than dirt.....Normally, they'll have spotters (or guards) at key points (with cell phones). If they see anything that looks like "Five O", they make their call.....occupants will vacate in record time. I don't want to scare you on this one, but, I assume you gave one of the occupants your business card. So, now they know who you are......you have two choices.....take your pictures and story to the local cops or just pass the order back to the bank. I don't think this is a win-win situation with either choice. If this guy gets busted (and he will, in time), who do you think he believes was the snitch? You're not holding a winning hand, my friend......Me?...I'd be down at the local police department tomorrow morning. I hope your pictures picked up the barrels in your shot. I would tell them what you smelled and the converstation with the owner. If it's a meth lab, it's just a bomb ready to go off....Again, I'm afraid your not going to win either way....I'm not trying to scare you.....just a reality check. I'm Irish and Aries, which is a bad combination, when it comes to threats....Me, I'd been down at 5-O, right after the call from the owner. The good news, if it is a lab, he's probably moving it at this very moment....

Please let me know how this turns out......PM me or post something. I'm really concerned.

I would do the same thing, CandyMan. Go to the police station immediately (let the AM know you are going, but you have been threatened and I wouldn't care if the AM said it was okay or not!)...

Here are some indicators of a meth lab for everybody out there:

* Unusual, strong odors (like cat urine, ether, ammonia, acetone, or other chemicals) coming from sheds, outbuildings, other structures, fields, orchards, campsites, or especially vehicles (older model cars, vans) etc.
* Possession of unusual materials such as large amounts of over-the-counter allergy/cold/diet medications (containing ephedrine or pseudoephedrine), or large quantities of solvents such as Acetone, Coleman Fuel, Toluene, etc.
* Discarded items such as ephedrine bottles, coffee filters with oddly-colored stains, lithium batteries, antifreeze containers, lantern fuel cans, propane tanks.
* The mixing of unusual chemicals in a house, garage, or barn, or the possession of chemical glassware.
* Heavy traffic during late night hours.
* Residences with operating fans in windows in cold weather, or blacked-out windows.
* Renters who pay their landlords in cash.
* Occupants are unfriendly, appear secretive about activities.
* Occupants watch cars suspiciously when they pass by.
* Occupants display a paranoid or odd behavior.

From what you described, you saw one or at least something similar. There are three reasons you need to contact the police immediately:

1) The occupant threatened you.
2) Meth labs have a bad habit of exploding or catching on fire. Since the occupant knows you saw his equipment, it is possible he may torch the property to cover up his activities.
3) Meth labs are a contaminant and can affect the health of neighbors.

NTB

thank you everyone for your input!
I did some research on meth labs last nite before going to bed. Northtxbroker's post describes the same thing I found online. I didn't smell anything except what seemed to be a natural gas odor by the drums. I didn't go in the house, so items needed to make meth weren't seen. But there were plenty of vehicles, a couple old campers, etc. The 2nd make shift dwelling had a large family staying there. It's possible that he has illegal immigrants living there and this could possibly be what he was concerned about. I'll upload the photos of the drums and pump after I take care of some other things I need to do at the moment. Maybe someone on the forum will have a better idea if these could be used for illegal drug manufacturing by seeing the photos.

Oh, and yes, I left my business card!

And check your cell phone records for the owner's phone number. You might even put that in your cell's phone book, so you'll know next time he calls.

PacificBreeze..

you have every right to give those photos to law enforcement, if you believe a criminal enterprise is being operated on the property.

You don't have any good options - I agree with everyone to make copies of the pictures - sit down and write a full statement and take it to the police or sheriff - you might even consider calling the DEA instead, just in case news somehow flows back to these people from your local officials.

Followup with your client and stay away from the property and follow the instructions of the DEA.

I'll definitely keep you in my prayers - check in now and then just so we know you're OK

PB

If you smelled natural gas, that's another bomb, just sittin' there, ticking........Normally, I would recommend calling the gas company.....in this case, no......good way to get the serviceman shot, if it's a lab......If you decide (and I hope) to go to the local police, take your pictures with you.....Could you be over reacting?......maybe....but, the natural gas smell is enough to get the local authorities involved......Please keep us up to date on this......I don't have a good feeling on thie one......

PB, I feel for you but want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing. It makes us think of a course of action to take should we find ourselves in a similar situation.

I'd like to hear suggestions from the group regarding what to leave if they want a biz card so you give them something but at the same time remain anonymous just in case.

You know, these places are often investigated for months before law enforcement can make a move. You should absolutely contact law enforcement because you may have pictures they are dying to have, or you may have put a huge kink in their plans.

Better to do your part to stop someone now then to run into them again at another property. Plus I'd rather have law enforcement take over a contaminated property than to have to explain it to an AM myself. These properties take inordinate amounts of money and effort to remediate.

Unfortunately, you'll never remain anonymous. Eventually, the property is going to be listed under your name. If the occupant *really* wanted to find out who you are, they will. Another reason to contact law enforcement.

TB in TX makes a good point that the place may be under surveillance already. Besides, as the local police have assured me, the police would rather you bring them info that doesn't amount to anything than NOT bring them the info when it might really be something. So -- definitely contact some law enforcement agency and tell them where it is, what you saw, why you were there, and what the owner's threat was.

Around here, CrimeStoppers is a big program -- and a very successful one. I'd either call them with a tip or call the police.

UPDATE - I contacted DEA instead of the police. I had visions of the police rolling up to the house to ask questions. If this happens, the owner is going to be REALLY pissed off and he'd know I called. The DEA operates under deep cover and they assured me that their investigation will not be detected by the occupants. He wanted all the photos and the info from the label on the drums so they can try to determine what kind of chemical is in the drum. He assured me that I did the right thing by calling and promised to contact me again after they've had time to do a preliminary investigation. Gotta say... my stomach has been in knots all day!

I also talked to the Eviction Specialist at PAS. She also agreed that under the circumstances, I did the right thing to contact DEA. Their Eviction Attorney has already called me. He also wants all photos. NOW GET THIS... I just got a new task from PAS telling me to offer CFK at $500 per occupant living at the property????????????????? At least that put a little humor in my day! Damn automated tasks!

When you get on a preprogrammed cycle with a company it gets funny.

I am glad you went the route you did - I think it's a wise choice and in the end the locals get to house these people if need be.

Sorry - can't stop laughing at the the CFK,

Of course you and hubby need to show the appropriate amount of caution, hopefully the DEA went over that with you.

No... he didn't. I think he wants to do a preliminary investigation before giving us any more reason for concern. He said he'd get back to me in 24 hrs. We'll see

PB...one other possibility is that this is how they are getting water, have you checked to see if there is an open water acct at this property? and if there is is, does it look like all those poeple living there are using it?
We have a lot of "colonias" in my coverage area where it's basically poor subdivisions, majority of the ppl are migrants and these are places where they either don't have the money to hook up the water meter or can't afford to keep it going so they make up all sorts of contraptions to get water into the home, i've even seen something like what you described for propane.
The owner might be paranoid for being turned in for being a horrible landlord and maybe not providing such utilities..
never know..
I'd probably put a call in to a county inspector and see if he could go check it out with you?
good luck, Lor:)

Water service is currently on, confirmed with city yesterday. There may also be a well on the property. This is not a poor or blighted property. It sold for $655,000 in 2003 and even current value is at least $450k. The main house is a nice 2800 sq ft dwelling and this is where the drums and hoses were running to. The 2nd dwelling is an expanded camper trailer with a very small make shift extension built off the trailer and that was on the other side of the property.

I can't figure out how to insert a photo into a post. When I click the Image button, nothing happens. I'd like to show the photos on this. Can you tell me how to do it? Thanks!

I am pretty sure you HAVE to use a photosharing host, like flickr or photobucket.

And kudos for trying to share them with the world...take that, bully homeowner!

I might be overly cautious at times - but I would hold off until the DEA gets back with you. Just thinking

you just read my mind Pinehurst
As I was trying to figure out how to upload a couple photos, that same thought occurred to me.

Im 6'4" and 250 lbs, former high school linebacker, but there are some props that I won't go to, the ones I do go to, i take my glock. I always circle the block a few times, then if no one appears to see me, will park, and observe for a few mins. Always have a good cover story with you to tell the squatters if things look suspicious after its already too late and you are there. A few of my favorites:

Mix up the address numbers, or street verbally to them, and tell them you are there to give a bid on painting, interior decoratiing, pressure washing, or anything, then "realize" you are at the wrong house, and thank them for their time. Works every time.

Tell them you are taking a survey for the Census Bureau, and will only take a few moments of their time. Re-iterate that the survey is optional, and you would like to speak to "fill in blank of made up name" When they say he does not live there, thank them for their time, and leave.

If you still want to have the listing, but dont want to go back till they are gone, call the local trustee's office, they usually have people who will go post notices to vacate, etc, if the bank wants you to handle the eviction instead of their evictions team.

Safety First!

Has anybody heard from Pacific Breeze? I hope all is ok!

Ok, PB

You can chime in here anytime now..........I, for one of many in this forum, am concerned......Just tell us you're ok....fair enough?

how many of you central florida folks have had the joy of going into 'tymberskan'

CandyMan have you heard anything yet?

Chill out, texan! Pacific Breeze doesn't check in here with us daily, so don't worry so much! She is smart enough that she'll be okay.

Sorry TB, didn't mean to overstep, just concerned that's all.

TB

We have some "real live idiots" in my state. Based on PB's post, and if this is a lab, we have an idiot in play. And, it's a sad fact, you can't predict their actions or reactions...

If I appear to be over reacting, it's just my nature of concern. If you remember a short while back, when somebody brought back your post about your car accident last year....and, of course, I'm readling this like two in the morning....and failed to note the date of your origonal post, I reacted.......I was concerned then also.....

At times I feel a bond with a few of our memebers...almost like a friendship......you know you'll never meet, you know you'll never have an eyeball to eyeball chat.....and it applies to both male and female.....the bonds there......the concern is there. I swear I could walk into a room full of people, listen to few of the conversations, and start picking a few of you out.....I know this paragraph may appear stupid, but, it's the truth......This forum has been a real blessing for me.....We're just one big happy family.......lol.

Well, back to work.....4 orders to kick out and two showings...
......not quite the way I planned on spending my birthday.

Well, well, well!!! happy, Happy, HAPPY!!!! Enjoy your day, write a couple of offers!

Yeah . . . . Happy Birthday CandyMan !

We had an Young Female Agent shot to death a couple years ago, just because she showed up while a drug deal was going down bad. Just trying to scratch out a living. Wrong place/wrong time ! A good energetic Kid, and we miss her.

Her empty house is still on the MLS; and I'm reminded of her unnecessary demise everytime it shows up in a search ! She didn't die there . . . . she was murdered at a Client's property; but everyone who shows her house is probably exuding some vibes that are sensed by Prospective Buyers, and it makes the sale of her former home a harder sell.

CandyMan . . . . Your comments and thoughts are hardly stupid !

I am always concerned, too, but repeatedly asking about a person accomplishes nothing. She'll check in soon enough - she always does!

And Happy Bday, CandyMan!

Wow..I remember the Tyson/Greenawalt gang vividly. I was here in Phoenix at the time...The dad was invovled and his sons came to get him out. There was a movie made about it as well...it was horrilbe. The entire state was paralyzed for a short spell...

Hap, Happy Birthday, CandyMan!! Hope it's been a good one, even if didn't go quite as you'd hoped.

LOL. So we share the same birth date? I knew there was something I liked about you.

I spent mine with a training class out in the field. But I have to say it was an awesome group and I thoroughly enjoyed my weekend with them. I'll see if I can get a photo uploaded of all of us when the day was over.

Happy birthday, Candyman.

Linda

For those of you confused about smg's post, I deleted mine due to the way it was laid out....I will repost later....tis a true story.....stay tuned......lol

Linda

You're kidding me.......same birthday?......this day ia always special to me for a different reason....my oldest son was born on this day on an Easter Sunday......Since then, I quit having birthday's.....only problem, my body never got the message..........lol......

Happy Birthday to you too........

Happy B Day Candy Man

With all these birthday people, cake is in order!

Happy Birthday to you too, Linda!

A very belated "thank you" to all....and, barb43....the cake was great.

PS: Linda.....I saved a piece for you...lol

So don't leave us hanging...what happened???

Oh my gosh... I am sooooo embarrassed. All you nice folks that were checking in to see if I was OK and I wasn't even keeping my eyes on on this post. I've just been so busy the last couple months, that I rarely log in anymore. When I do, it's 5 minutes here or there. But yes... all is well with me and "THANK YOU" all for asking!

There have not been any new incidents since my last post. DEA dropped the ball with me as soon as I agreed to give them the name/address of the suspecting party in question. You may remember that I was hesitant to do that, but I was kind of damned if I did and damned if I didn't. I thought it sucked that the DEA didn't get back to me like he promised. He said he would, even if they revealed nothing. So I really don't know anything more than I did 2 months ago.

LATEST UPDATE... the past owner is still occupying the property. He has an attorney that keeps getting stays granted from the judge on the Eviction. A new lockout date is set for Wed, the 27th. I am NOT looking forward to this (2 dwellings, a huge barn, another out building and a threatening occupant).

So I get a call from my Eviction attorney last Friday telling me that the occupant's attorney scheduled another request for Stay with the Judge. Court date is Tues (tomorrow, one day before the lockout day) but the attorney doesn't think the judge will grant another stay again. I have to assume they are still in the property with ALL their stuff. My AM emailed me and told me to take a good inventory and photos.... this should be fun!

I'm just wondering how long the sheriff will stay. Inventory could be an all afternoon event there, and I know the sherrifs aren't planning on staying all afternoon. When they leave, I leave too! I've never had to go to a lockout. Occupants always left before the date or agreed to CFK. This is a first, and it's not a great situation since it's a secluded rural property.

Any suggestions Candyman (or anyone else)??? Again, thank you all for your concerns and PLEASE forgive me for not checking the post again.

I received an email this morning from a friend. After reading it, I thought about how this would apply while completing interiors. It's an interesting read, especially when you consider what we go through to get pictures (trash 4 foot high in house....tall grass in yard, etc.). Pay close attention to how these are activated. I could be over reacting...better safe than sorry.

http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/bottlebomb.asp

I just reviewed this post. There's ad that popped up that wasn't in there when I posted it....please ignore.

CandyMan,

Your post inspired me to add a thread on dangers. This is a very important post!

Liz

Not overreacting at all Candyman. Thanks for sharing.

I had a great order yesterday.........

I receive the order on Thursday......call POC (pre-list agent)....try and get some info prior to entry.....agent has an attitude....just got to love this type.......I asked her anything I should look for (hazards)?.....her attitude just got worse......this should have been a red flag for me.

Yesterday afternoon, I make entry......As I entered, I noticed a smell that would have the average person blowin' chunks. Preservation company had been there but hadn't finished. The further I went into the house, the worse the smell. It was like somebody had perfumed the orginal odor to cover it up....No power on at the property...being careful where I stepped. It finally dawns on me.....somebody had died in the property and the odor was from a body that had decomposed......I make my break for the front door.....yes, I can see the light.....has to be the exit......as I hit the front door, I let out a long exhale....not good enough..I can still smell it.....So, I say to myself, "Self, let's call it a day and come up with another game plan. Today is a new day...first stop is to head to Ace Hardware and purchase a mask. Here's the fun part......Client only allows 18 pictures of which 6 are comps, then exterior and interior shots, and the rest for damages. I counted at least 20 damage shots on my first trip in.....this should be fun. This will be my last order of the day......will take care of the others first.

Wish me luck as I attempt to complete this "Star Trek" order (go where no man has gone before.....lol).

Candyman- Try putting a little Vicks Vapor Rub in the mask and then put it on. You won't even notice the odor in the house. Have had to use this trick more then once and it works well.

I took your advice.......It toned the smell down a bit...It still gave you that chunk blowin' feeling. I should have worn a Scott Air Pak......the kind that firemen use. To top is off the preservation company set off some bug bombs since my first entry......With all their required pictures, I only had two shots that I could upload....bummer.....Let them try and figure out why the high damage report from two pictures...not my fault....lol.

Never had to deal with THAT thank heaven.

It's worse than when there's OBVIOUS mold everywhere, yet no one warned you. One LA told me the ceiling is fallen in, be careful, and when I get there the whole back of the house's ceiling was fell, and it was CARPETED with fuzzy black mold. The whole attic was black.....thanks REO. I really wonder what becomes of those homes, and what will happen 10 years down the line when people start getting sick from buying these REOs.

last week I had an interior bpo I contact listing agent and tells me property is vacant and in good conditions. I go to property start taking pictures, I go to the second floor, open the door of master bedroom and there was 2 pitbulls that scare the hell out of me... Thank god I close the bedroom door on time.... I was unable to take pic of the master bed. I explained bpo company why I was unable to take master pic. They just reassigned the order and didn't get paid.... I spoke with one of the managers and he tells me there were going to "investigate" the situation... lol you gotta be kidding me.... This is the last bpo I'm doing for this company....

Not to bring this thread back to life, but, I think this may be worth posting.

About 5 days ago, I got an interior order. I call the POC and she says "there's no lock box on the property". The property is vacant and the power is on. She then informs me " the keys are in a little metal box on the wall of the house by the a/c". Hello?.......like a breaker box for the a/c?.....and the power is active? I arrive at the subject and it's raining cats and dogs....puddles of water at the base of a/c. Do I or don't I?......I slowly open up the breaker box.....yep, keys are there, about 2" from the 220 volt bare wires. Having worked for a local power company for 3 years, I pretty much know what conducts electicity with me for starters..lol. I took the chance and somehow "snaked out" the keys, using non-conductive material. I make my inspection and take a ton of pictures. Now, I have to put the keys back in "the little metal box on the wall". I open the door, push the keys back in with a little rubber hose, close the door, look skyward, and say "Thank you, Lord".

Was I stupid?.......kind of sort of......moist air is a conductor.....used about 18" of an old windshield wiper hose I had in my car....would not recommend this proceedure for those with shakey hands.....Actually, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.