I submit offers all the time for myself.

I include proof of funds and my letter of intent.

Logistically it makes NO SENSE to submit my offers on full GAR contracts.If I submitted 20 offers I would have to fax 400 pages of documents which is ludicrous.

I had one broker tell me "Well you haven't seen the property? I said no that's why there is a 24hr inspection period upon written binding agreement from all parties" Unless there is fire,massive termite,or plumbing damage I usually go through with the deal. His response "Well if i go through this work and you don't like it I did all that work for nothing!" WTF this is crazy!

So I ask for a 24hr window of time yet this idiot will work on buyer contracts that are financed and wait weeks to remove contingencies?

Some people just truly amaze me.Banks always go verbal and then counter later and the bank addendums always supersede what's in the contract.So in short I don't need a bunch of provisions and wasted time,ink,and paper on pages that do not apply to me when I make my offer.I understand on the banks counter I will be signing there boilerplate stuff.

Now for some of them that require it I will submit a full contract and it usually stipulates it in the MLS comments.

Like I told the last broker on the phone there are over 700 active properties for sale 20,000 and below. This is an investment decision not an emotional one!

Look at it from the listing agent's point of view. Personally, I hate it for people to submit offers sight unseen. 98% of the time, it's a waste of time. Also, all banks that I work with stipulate that they do not respond to LOIs. The interest from the buyer does not come across as very strong, either.

i have a GREAT attitude thank you very much...
butt i know many who don't, mainly the ones who have been doing this for like 20 yrs and dont sell anything but they're own stuff anymore and dont show homes-give buyers lb codes, and most of all DO NOT like to submit offers from other agents and do about anything to make sure no one does! I've had a couple buyers where they LOVE a certain home and i know for a fact if i submit an offer for them i send them to the listing broker and forego the commission..i guess if i had more time and really wanted extra drama i would send the signed buyer agreement and send that to title when they closed...but ehh

For me in my limited REO listing experience I like the letter of intents better. The one company I work for you submit the offer electronically anyways. Once the offer is accepted the agent writes out a state sales contract signs it at the same time as the bank addendum/counter. I've recieved two full state contract offers on a listing before and both buyers backed out before they even signed the bank addendums. I have yet to have a buyer back out when sending a letter of intent. I leave that up to the buyer agent. But I tell them what they have to have on the letter of intent. Don't just give me a price. I need closing dates, acceptance deadlines and other such things.

I do REO work for a number of companies, each of which has their own wrinkle in how they want things done. An increasing number of them require the initial submission to be through their web site with specific pieces of information which I can lift from a board contract form. Some letters of intent may provide the required information, others might not. So far (in over 12 years of R.E. business) I haven't had anyone try that route with me. If someone wants to buy one of my listings I will fill out the required paperwork on standard board contract forms for them; if an offer comes from another agency it better already be on the right forms; I will not assume the legal responsibility of interpreting a letter of intent.

The main reason some REO brokers may (seem like they) have a bad attitude is because many of the agents and brokers out there ask the same idiotic questions and/or submit incomplete offers for "investors" who just received their Carelton Sheets diplomas. You know the ones.. they think an offer of 40% of list price loaded with contingencies and 100% financing is a good offer!

Seriously, there is a lot of work involved (more than most retail listings) with REO and the guidelines are set by the lender, not the broker. If an offer is incomplete, then it just means even more work for the listing broker.

In my experience, anyone who is making 20 offers is not offering anywhere near market value and is playing a game. They are entertaining themselves and hoping that something may "stick" with no regards to how much time* they are wasting.



If you had to completely fill out 20 offers and fax 400 pages of documents for your buyer, then you would most likely be more hesitant to allow a buyer to use your time and experience unless you felt VERY confident in their buying ability and the legitimacy of the offers.

Just look at it from both sides. If you attempt to get your buyers to complete all the necessary items to make an offer, it is being thorough and professional. Everyone saves time that way!

Best of luck to you! *Time is time.. no matter whose clock you look at and nobody should waste theirs or anyone elses. The above is not meant as an insult, I just wanted to bring to light that there are two sides to every situation.

I appreciate everyones input. When I have reo listings the assett manager usually just wants a verbal on what the price is and terms and then when that is nailed down go to contracts.

I have a myfax account and get charged for each page so obviously I am not going to send massive amounts of paper.

I am an investor along with being a broker. There are many homes 20,000 and under list price in my area. I am ready to close with CASH with a 24hr contingency to inspect. A contract really does not get any easier than that.

Maybe I should just do what other people do and call the listing broker with a verbal instead of putting anything in writing.

Obviously I am not going through 1,000 sheets of paper with 50 offers when I can go through 100 instead.You have to understand homes in this price range in my area only qualify for cash offers in there current condition.

Thanks everyone we will see what happens.

they have to have thick skin to do the job. they are overworked and stressed.

I never had an asset manager who only wanted verbal. All mine want wriiten contracts and the AM responds back in writing. I must be working with the wrong AM's.

I agree with super realtor. It does not make sense the listing agent to reject the offer. Moreover it is his obligation to provide it to the seller. Anyway the other buyers have to do inspection as well and there is not guaranty that they will back up too and in this case he did the wrong choice.

For those of you who just present blind LOIs: if you don't have the consideration to view the property you want to buy, prepare an offer, and earnestly present it, don't expect a warm reception from the seller or listing agent. Yes, we understand it's a numbers game for you. However, blind offers rarely ever work out, a bunch of time gets wasted, and I've been on both sides of the ball there. AMs know this and there's nothing worse than wasting another person's time. As if there isn't enough busy work to do....

I currently handle about 75 properties at random stages and for the most part they are all REO. I will also sell about 350 REO properties this year. To answer your question directly Super Realtor, because most Buyer Agents do not follow instructions and it becomes very irritating. You accompany that with about 400 emails a day, 30 offers to review, and a phone call every 1.5 minutes...they begin to get overwhelmed. The hardest part about REO's is that you get the work and the volume before you get the money. You basically go through phases and growing pains to keep up your level of service while trying to staff up and work 3X as hard to train staff to handle all the items and task that they can. The last thing an REO listing Agent wants to deal with is an argumentative Buyer Agent that wants to express their opinion and not take that time to just follow instructions. I was once where you are, in regards to the frustration of just producing offers and getting no where. The truth is you cant see it until you have walked in their shoes. A tip, when the Seller ask me about multiple offers and which offer looks the best to me, I always take into account (with other criteria) the Agent's ability to follow instruction, willingness to complete offers, return calls, etc... REO's are fast paced. My average DOM is 48 days. My avg property gets 7 offers. If you have 40 active properties hitting that avg DOM at once and you recieve an avg of 7 offers, that is minimum of 280+ pieces of papers you have to sort through, check for details that your client prefers, etc...meanwhile you are working on 6 hrs of sleep for the week, the remaining 389 emails to go through and the 78 task that are due in your systems that day from the Seller. Also mention that the task that the Seller assigns you is due usually within 48 depending on what it is they are requiring. It is the task timelines for the most part that stress us out, not really the Agents in my opinion, they just dont help. It is true that none of us have the right to get an attitude with each other. We may carry different logos and different thoughts but we all carry the same licenses and the same profession. I may be the worlds worst at getting stressed and wanting to fire off at someone...but I learned a long time ago that the only way to please everyone is to keep my mouth shut and hire highly talented people that are great at dealing with the things that make me want to scream at people. The day that we quit looking at it as we are on opposite teams and put our heads together to work together to get the best possible solution for both sides, is the day that this will change.

Just my 2 cents.

KP

Victor:

As the listing agent on REO properties my duties are to the seller and if the seller has already provided instructions about how they want offers handled then it is my duty as the agent to follow those instructions as long as they are legal and ethical. That includes rejecting them back to the buyer's agent if they are incomplete. If the seller instructs me that they don't want any verbals (and like REO Seller said, my asset managers want it writing), they want either prequalification or proof of funds, they want me to hold the earnest money deposit, etc. then that is the way we do it.

Mr. Foreclosure

I can sympathize with the idea of not wanting to fax out 200 sheets of paper. On my most recent REO deal, the seller accepted a contract that was scanned and then emailed. This is speedy, and uses a minimum of paper and fax expense. It also minimizes the image degradation of faxed paperwork. I still think a contract needs to be submitted to the listing broker with proof of funds. I have not encountered a situation where a seller would seriously consider a verbal offer.

KP I agree at that volume level all you are doing is reo's.

It is different when the property qualifies for Fha/conventional financing.The properties I look at only qualify for cash investors.

Of course even if I look at the property I might want inspections and I am not going to spend that expense even though I have walked through it UNTIL we have agreed on price.

So yhe broker that says you haven't seen it you might waste my time. How is this different from seeing it,going binding and doing an inspection and then backing out?

As far as earnest money goes I don't give that until we have a fully executed contract in writing signed by all parties and not before. I also put a short timeframe for acceptance because I know banks drag there feet and I am not going to wait 2 weeks for one answer.I can still accept but I am not obligated to.

It's like one developer I work with put it.He said I use different brokers in different areas. He said I don't wait for brokers to get back to me to do my investments. What he was saying is he doesn't out his investment plans on hold waiting months for brokers to get back to him.

In my area banks do not consider hard money loans cash anymore. That's fine because I have cash. I can see the frustrations on both ends. The reality is I am not a carlton sheets investor. I am a broker who has cash and if we come to terms on price the deal will happen.

We have an investor in this area who lowballs everything, sight seen or sight unseen. Some REO agents have even decided not to show his offers which I think is complete bunk. The investor's agent has thick skin and he'll take some verbal beatings since the offers are so consistently low. Yet, you see this guy also picking up property left and right and his agent is doing rather well.

In our market now, it is becoming more and more common to see sale prices at 10 to 20K below LP, especially on our HUD properties. It has happened to several of my listings as well. If an investor submits an offer, I don't care if it is low. More than likely it is just supporting the value that I've been giving the darn thing that hasn't moved since they listed it 10 or 20K above my BPO. Out of state investors are very common, I represent two myself and am not put off by the fact they haven't seen the property. They have a track record of following through.

Super:

I have had a lot of properties that I would have though "cash only" but a few have then been financed using rehab funding (such as the FHA 203k) or construction loans. That being said I don't know what you mean when you say you look at properties that only qualify for cash investors.

I also am a bit suprised when you say you won't put down earnest money without having a fully executed contract. I do many REO listings for companies as large as Fannie Mae and as small as a local bank and haven't found one yet that doesn't include having earnest money down. If it isn't part of the original offer it is a requirement of the counteroffer. Over 12 years, mostly REO for the last 10, and haven't seen a fully executed contract yet that didn't have an earnest money deposit first.

Mr. Foreclosure

That surprises me too. I haven't had an REO seller yet that didn't require the earnest money deposit to be included when we send the docs to them for their signatures. None of them have allowed it to be given when we got the signed docs BACK from them.

I think what he is trying to say is that during negotiations no earnest money is redeemed, as it shouldn't be until you have an agreed upon purchase price and docs are sent for signature. Could be wrong but that is how I read it. If anyone is asking to redeem earnest money before we finish negotiations, I advise against it.

It's extremely different as the potential buyers who have seen it have at least done a visual inspection of the property. There are too many blind-bidders who get offers accepted, visit the property, and then complain about what a piece of trash it is and that they then wasted their time. If a buyer has viewed a property prior to getting an accepted offer, the transaction is 1,000 times more likely to close than if the buyer has not viewed the property. Also, it's not a "might waste my time". It is a definite waste of my time.


Why did people ever consider hard money loans cash? It's not--it's a hard money LOAN. I've never understood this. It still has to go through somebody's underwriting, get appraisals, documentation, etc.


If I had a nickel for every time I had heard an investor say that, I wouldn't have to sell real estate anymore and could retire. Nothing against you, but I've heard this line over and over and over and over and....well, you get the picture. My experience is that less than 5% of these people actually close.

I think it is stress and overworked and more demands from the companies. On certain days, I am guilty. When I recognize and take 2 or 3 days off!!

Anybody, do you get the name of the Title Company if in offer you write earnest money to be delivered upon acceptance, but then leave blank who will hold the money? This is what I'm trying to get now instead of using another Title Company to only hold the money (while not too thrilled about it).

Who holds the earnest money varies by state.I have seen the buyer or listing broker hold in an escrow account,title company holds it sometimes,and here in Ga the closing attorney can hold it as well.

What I meant to say as far as the earnest money is I put upon written acceptance in the contract.Used to in my area people would find a property and write an earnes tmoney check that would immediately be deposited into an escrow account. Then when the seller didn't take the offer you had togo through ALOT of uneccessary time releasing the earnest money and doin it all over again.

So now if I write ten offers I don't do any earnest money until we get an accepted contract and then I will give the earnest money to listing broker.If they want me to write a check and photocopy it and send in with the contract that's fine.

Until you have an accepted offer in writing it makes no sense to give an actual earnestmoney check because the bank can at that point still accept other offers as it's considered verbal until they sign off on it.

I went to look at 12 more properties today. Some were dogs and some were actually pretty decent. Driving around Atlanta I am learning the really bad areas from the so,so ones. What I look for is cheap houses in a decent to good area. The ones in the bad areas where there is a drug dealer and hookers on every corner you can forget about those.

Atlanta has a few sections that are really rough. I saw a house today for 5k that I might pay 500 for the lot and tear down the house to build a new one there.

Sometimes these houses are so bad off you just need to demo and rebuild.I am going to rest tommorow as this morning I had my last mid-term martial arts test. So in November I will do my rank test to go to third degree black belt.

I require the full contract, addendums, proof of funds and copy of EM before submission of offer. I put this in the MLS. It's frustrating as the listing agent to have MY fax paper wasted with incomplete offers. Then I have to hold on to incomplete offers until the buyers' agent sends in everything. This is a waste of my time! Buyers' agents - READ THE MLS - FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS! YOU WILL SAVE YOURSELF AND YOUR BUYER TIME IN THE LONG RUN. If you or your buyer aren't serious enough to take the time to write a complete offer, don't be surprised if I'm snippy. You are wasting my time because then I have to call you and say, "Mr. Agent, Please submit proof of funds and have your buyer sign the addendums". Then I hear you moan and groan, blah, blah, blah..........

I even had an agent call me a couple weeks ago and say that he wanted to write an offer but didn't want to go through all that paperwork if it was going to get rejected. He said I should write it up and fax it to him the way I want it and then he would get buyers' signatures! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yeah, I'm serious. That's what he said. Wonder why REO listing agents are grumpy? That's why! We deal with a bunch of lazy buyers' agents and get sick of it.

I am required to submit a complete contract, proof of funds, copy of EM and addendums within 24 hours after acceptance. If I take an incomplete offer and the buyers' agent doesn't submit everything to me in a timely manner, guess who looks bad for not getting the contract to the bank in time? Yes - it's me.

Do your buyers, the listing agent and the REO agent a favor and submit COMPLETE offers according to the instructions. I don't care if your buyers offer 1 dollar! Just get me a complete contract for goodness sake! It's not that hard!

Amen Makin Money,
We're grumpy because we spend 80% of our day chasing signatures and initials because lazy buyer agents can't follow simple instructions. They ruin it for all of the good agents (like Super) who we know will get us the contract right the first time.

The other 20% of the day is spent answering phone calls where the buyer agents asks, "how long does this bank take to respond?", and "what's their bottom line" and my favorite... "will that one with the broken windows, lead paint, and mold, go FHA?" C-mon people!

I actually had an agent yesterday call and ask me to give him turn by turn directions to a property while he was driving because the address didn't come up on his GPS. My directions on the MLS sheet had only 3 turns from the interstate and was simple as heck to find, but he said he didn't have time to stop the car and read the directions. I asked him if he was joking, he said no....I hung up.

It's like the movie Groundhog Day, it's the same story every day

Yeah I guess I understand as I only do a few reo's with listing them and the calls you get are kind of wild from agents and the carlton sheets investors.Usually the calls I get is from a newbie investor or a new agent where a buyer they just started working with wants to look at foreclosures and they have no clue what they are doing but are desperate for there first or second closing as an agent.

I guess what I might start doing is just keep looking before submitting and narrow down the properties.That way I can reassure the listing broker and say YES I have seen it,I want it,here is the offer on your forms and if you can give me my price we have a deal.

The reo listing broker has alot of pull conveying the seriousness of the buyer. So I guess by narrowing it down I will limit my paper and will also see if I can scan it in and e-mail them my contract which will save on myfax fees.

One other thing that makes me grumpy - Agents who want you to call them whenever you get a new REO property.

Like I have an extra hour or two everyday to call agents to let give them a head's up that a new REO is in the MLS.

Learn how to set up an automatic search in the MLS - they show you how in the MLS class.

I just got 2 seperate potential buyers ask me how much the other offerers offered. Then give me a seriously hard time for not telling them exactly how much they need to beat the other
offers.
I mean I got admonished by a big time investor who contacted me direct saying 'if I want both sides of the commission' let's work together on this, and 'this is how the real world works'.
Apparently he's worked with other agents who played the game with him of telling him the number he needed to get to to get the property.

Also had a buyer agent flat out ask me how much are the other offers?

Wow, this newbie is learning how dirty this game of REOs can be.

I understand Pa Broker being frustrated with agents that have the capability to check MLS but want you to notifiy them by 'phone. I have that same problem when a listing is under contract and they want me to call them back if it fails. I simply tell them to track the MLS and if it goes back on the market the status will again show as active.

"I simply tell them to track the MLS and if it goes back on the market the status will again show as active."

Unfortuneately some dirty agents and brokers will resell if it falls out to there list to double end the commission. I have seen statuses not change in the mls for weeks and the mls just sends them an e-mail reminder slap on the wrist.

The problem is if it's already under contract and showing active you have just wasted everyone's time.

I have seen the good brokers are on top of everything and change the status right away.Unfortuneately you cannot count on the mls being accurate all the time in my area so you have to call.

There are exceptions to that put it as pending in MLS when the list agreement says no pending status till final Seller ratification; Then I am allowed to change status from Active to Pending, but not before Seller contract ratification. It is not that I want to waste anyone's time but sometimes if they don't read the private remarks saying call before writing offer than the waste there time.

I can see why they get irritated. My first few REO sales on the buyers side were a mess.....all my fault because I was clueless. The first agent was so mad about having to babysit me she called my broker 2 times during the whole fiasco. It closed but I left the table with egg on my face. Second time the selling agent was as nice as he could be. Pretty much guided me right along. Third sale was with same selling agent who again, poked and prodded. He helped me a ton. After that it was cake minus a few surprises. But looking back...I was lucky. As stupid as I was in my first few transactions...they should have let me have it I suppose. I looked and felt like a total moron. Now that I know 'the deal' I get irritated with agents who don't understand 'the deal'. I'm cheerful by nature so I can gently prod agents to do what I want. But I don't have 100+ REO listings like my broker does. Now he gets irritated....alot. And I don't blame him 90% of the time.

Having to deal with the same silly A** questions over & over & over agian from agents/brokers or their damands for a response or who our client is so they can contactthem direct .. it can get on ones last nerve.

In regards to the "Sight Unseen" offers. i have 2 properties now that I keep getting offers on, and even went to "Highest and Best" several times, and when it comes time to do anything, Buyers not only fail to negotiate, but they withdraw their offer.
That is the most frustrating experience. i can imagine if that is multiplied by 10.
Also makes me look bad in front of my client when the AM has to keep asking me what happened to all these buyers that have dissapeared all of a sudden.

The unfortunate thing about "highest and best" is that buyers (esp. investors) naturally think "I'm not getting into a bidding war in this market."

Also . . . there is no way to confirm that there really are multiple offers.

Tough situation for both sides, IMHO.

Verbals and LOI offers are fine for like resnet or reotrans if there aren't multiple bids because you just enter them in to the system. It is easier to just work out a starting price and then sort details out later. But if it is someone who wants full offers and documentation...then I don't like not having a concrete contract, or if there are multiple players in the game, I don't want verbal because then there is questions of honesty.

I mean everytime some one doesn't get a property they accuse us helping our buyers or holding other offers and shoe horning our buyer into it. And that isn't the case at all. When I told you what was necessary to submit an offer (otp, preapproval/proof of funds, as-is addendums, etc) don't just send me an offer with nothing else and demand that I get you an answer right away! When my buyer has all of their documentation because they have a good realtor (yes we can't forget that in the reo business we are still realtors first...) and their offers are well written and well organized...I'm not sorry the bank didn't accept yours!

Yes. And what is this new crap with lenders? For years I could not get the time of day from a lender as the LA, now all of a sudden they feel free to badger me hourly demanding my seller produce whatever they're looking for that day rather than go through their borrower's agent. They are sucking up an inordinate amount of time. I try to accomodate everyone because it's in my client's best interest to do so & get the deal closed but it's getting to be a major problem.

Lenders: deal with your client & client's agent when you need something!

Funny how I NEVER got so much as a return phone call prior to taking on REO now LO's & processers feel free to pester me at all hours with demands.

To continue my lender rant:

STOP SELLING 30 DAY LOCKS ON REO!

All you are doing is taking a perfectly amicable transaction & blowing it into a vicious battle when it becomes clear that the thing is not going to close in 30 days.

Be honest with buyers!

AMEN Desert, it seems with all the other things we have to deal with that is not one that I care for. Then they act like the big guy when they either wave it or give a broker credit on the HUD.

We just got notified from multiple REO clients this week that they are changing their policies to make all closings 45 days instead of 30-35 days out. Lenders just aren't closing anything on time.

I think that is wise.

Let's have a show of hands: how many of you have had BA's DEMAND that seller pay a per diem to the buyer?


(Lots of luck finding THAT in the addendum).

Raising hand.

Someone mentioned earlier that both the Listing Agent and the Selling Agent are on the same team. I actually said that to another agent yesterday when we were dealing with a difficult buyer AND seller. It made our conversation easier.

I think I'll keep that in mind in the future. I ONLY list REOs so most of the agents I get stuck working with are not that sharp.

I tell lenders and agents to communicate via email so I can keep track of what is going on with a property. I can't keep some things straight!

Email has been my saving grace so many times. I can then easily track what is going on for each property and in some cases, remind people of the correct information.

Helpfull Hint to those who don't already do it. I put a new folder in my inbox for each property and move each email to it. Saves a lot of filing and printing.

Exactly what I do - works wonderful! Keeps everything at your finger tips and well organized

I've cut down on quite a bit of the questions and incomplete offers by using an REO disclosure form. It spells out what to expect and what's generally expected when buying an REO. I upload mine into the MLS docs section for each of my properties and require that buyers and agents sign and submit it with any offers. It really has helped.