Pilot it seems you are just after a debate. This horse is dead and has been around the block many times over the years in these forums.

As for people and there beliefs there are all kinds of opinions otu there which do not constitute fact or reality just there PERCEPTION of what they beleive.

Just like investing you only need a few people to choose you to make lots of money.I don't care what others think because the developers,investor clients know I bring expertise and value to the table. It's NOT what they ar epaying but what they are GETTING for there money.

I could review many so called successful fsbo closings and contracts and show where they lost value and terms not using a broker. Of course there are a few exceptions but the majority of fsbo's usually have to pay attorneys hourly to help with the contracts.

I have heard the fsbo's are taking over the world crap for years now and it hasn't happened. All that's happened is a few discounters have barely broken in to the market and many have went under.

I love it when a potential buyer or seller says brokers bring no value. That's when I disagree and if they get snippy it's a great feeling to let them know I have plenty of business and do not need a cleint such as themselves. What happens next is they usually say ok or walk away or they become intrigued by my beliefs and want me to explain the value. At that point they come into line and a client relationship is formed.

If anything I beleive we are underpaid. Pilot work with clients that share your mindset and they will reap more money off of your hard earned work.

I've asked for and received an 8% commission plus bonus to the selling agent.

I then sold the property quickly for MORE than the previous agent who sat on it for a year doing nothing. The buyers were happy because they really liked the property. The buyer's agent was happy about the bonus. I was happy because I took 5%. And the sellers were ecstatic because they actually netted more from the deal I got them than they would have netted using their first agent.

Win-win-win-win.

Were my services worth that 8% + bonus? You bet!

There's a lady who's been FSBO'ing her home around the block from me for almost a year now. Poor thing.

I have a listing at a full percentage above the "typical" rate in my market. My seller asked me why I was charging that much. I said, confidently and honestly "Because the service I offer you is worth it."

He said "Okay, I just wanted to know."

I do not think I am underpaid. You think I am overpaid. You are the one with the problem, not me. LOL

This is going to be my modus operandi. Will I be flexible? Of course, I can always charge more.

LOL Perky!! You said everything I was thinking.
Way to go Pilot..(sarcasm) You put your foot in your mouth on that one. If you don't know the value of who you are and the service you are providing then why would a potential customer think you have any value?

yawn...I'm waiting for an answer to my questions. Why doesnt this guy/gal work for a discount or offer rebates. Its just speaking without thinking, showing how he/she is a new agent.

I think there are a few additional points that some realtors forget to mention when explaining why they charge what, on the surface, appear to be high rates for what to appears to only involve (in the mind of the seller) completing some paperwork and "plopping a sign in the yard."

Another reason that realtors make what appear to be high percentages are RISK and what I like to call "empty holes" and, even better "empty holes with cash in them."

Let me explain.

We always have RISK that a deal will not close and, in fact, many do not close. The total percentage must pay for our time for those deals that close and those that do not. Similarly, we dig a LOT of holes (prospecting), yet many of those holes are empty, and many we even have to throw some cash in for good measure (spending money on prospecting). When we do find a hole with an actual deal, it must compensate us for the empty holes.

A seller might say "well, I'm not going to pay you for OTHER deals that didn't work," but the fact is that they MUST or no one would enter this business and therefore no one would sell their homes.

Additionally, lawyers are another group that understand the concept of RISK and empty holes. You can either pay them X dollars an hour OR a MUCH HIGHER percentage rate if they take the risk of handling your lawsuit on a contingency basis.

Another way of explaining the situation to a seller is that they are free to pay for your services on an hourly, non-contingent basis. $500 to list on the MLS, $300 for a CMA, some amount for lock box, sign, some amount to show buyers the home, some amount to pre-qualify buyers, some amount to deal with the endless phone calls, some amount for the back and forth of offers, counter-offers, etc, some amount when that deal doesn't work and you have to do the whole thing again, some amount for explaining the whole process again and again, some amount to deal with the inspector who wants to kill the deal, ditto with the appraiser, some amount to review the good faith estimtate and HUD-1 to make sure you aren't getting screwed with extra fees, and never mind the little things like calling the city to make sure you can plant a pool in that little space in the backyard, etc, etc.

Pilot doesn't like agents because most investors don't like agents b/c the agents are taking lots of $$ from their pocket. But that doesn't change the reality of what I've stated above. You can check out other forums like reiclub.com (and others) and see the realtor bashing. It's common among investors.

Finally, the top agents in my office when I left the business in 2001, came to the table with advanced degrees and/or previous major success in business or other fields. So they basically just had the work ethic to get things done!

Don't worry . . . pilot will QUICKLY change his mind once he starts prospecting. :)

I'm glad you brought this up. I have seen the bashing of real estate agents in the investor forums too, the thread about 'how do I get rid of this real estate agent', the one about 'how do I go around the agent [with the purpose to stiff his/her commission]'. How about the countless threads claiming that real estate agents have no clue whatsoever about anything!

Just like in any other profession, some people are good at what they do, some are so so, some are not good. This applies to those that are in the profession of being an investor as well.



So very true. Let's not forget about those that do not have the degrees but are very, very smart, savvy and successful at what they do.

[quote=swflagentI'm glad you brought this up. I have seen the bashing of real estate agents in the investor forums too, the thread about 'how do I get rid of this real estate agent', the one about 'how do I go around the agent [with the purpose to stiff his/her commission]'. How about the countless threads claiming that real estate agents have no clue whatsoever about anything!

Just like in any other profession, some people are good at what they do, some are so so, some are not good. This applies to those that are in the profession of being an investor as well.

So very true. Let's not forget about those that do not have the degrees but are very, very smart, savvy and successful at what they do.


[/quote]

Yes, investors complain a LOT about real estate agents and also how to get around their commissions. By the way, if you are ever dealing with an investor, whether FSBO or buyer or seller, make sure you get EVERY CYA document signed. They are worse than lawyers. The only deal where I ever lost a commission was dealing with an investor (well, they seriously cut the commission) because I didn't get them to sign an agreement to pay a commission as a FSBO before I showed their house to some buyers that I met at an open house (and who NEVER would have seen his house b/c they didn't know the area and I showed them the areas that were good, found the house, made the introductions, etc). Then they called each other and decided they didn't need me (which they didn't, at that point, because I had nothing signed). They still offered to pay me a very low percentage (maybe 1% if I remember correctly) to handle the paperwork, which I took because I was new and needed the money. But I learned my lesson b/c that was a high dollar house and it really SUCKED!

Anyway . . . yes, there are other agents without degrees who do well. But I haven't met any top producing agents who weren't successful in whatever they were doing before. But in my office we had a top producing former CEO, a top producing former lawyer, and a top producing former successful business owner. These people left their professions for lifestyle reasons, not because they weren't making money.

I'm also a very small time investor (we have five rentals), but I couldn't find the deals that I find without access to the MLS and knowledge of how the process works . . .something that many investors are lacking.

Read the forums for investors . . . you will see questions like "how can I get out of this contract," or "how do I write this contract," . . . crazy stuff like not understanding that the contract can and should be contingent on financing or inspections. Ultimately obviously rich investors learn the way to make the deals happen . . . but usually that's after a lot of education from realtors or other experienced investors . . . but experienced investors seem to forget that most people do not know how to handle a real estate transaction from start to finish. They just don't. Yet the investors still whine and complain about the fact that realtors aren't worth their commissions.

And remember PROSPECTING costs time and money that must lead to adequate compensation for the time spent. So I still want to talk to Mr. Pilot after his first day spent calling FSBOs or expireds!!! Mark my words. He WILL be singing a different tune, whether he admits it to us or not!

SMART investors seee value. Developers and investors I work with want to know and learn the market. Usually it's the LOCAL investors who THINK they know it all!

Degrees don't mean anything to me. There is book smarts and then there is street smart. A degree get's you a paper to put on the wall if you want a JOB. Street smarts help you accomplish your dreams and give you financial independance. Of course I am talking about real estate here and if you want to be a doctor,lawyer,etc. then that is a different thing.

Not that I wasn't good at school. I graduated high school with an "A" average. Went to college for awhile and decided what I wanted to learn you can't teach in a college.

As far as these investors go they THINK they know everything. I love beating them out on a deal.

[quote=Texas Agent][quote=Perky_REALTOR]I don't know whether to laugh or cry. LOL.
[/quote]

He stopped laughing as soon as I quoted him a few statistics about Realtor incomes from the NAR. Especially the statistics for new agents (less than two years experience.)

I also asked him how much he'd have to pay if he was writing his own health insurance check each month and creating his own retirement fund.

What were those statistics from NAR you mentioned. I am curious what the average, mean, median, range, etc of first year RE Agents. Especially if you have geographic information (preferably ski resort areas). Thanks

At that point he really started scratching his head.

:grin: [/quote]