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#171231 - 09/23/07 01:36 AM United First Financial - scam now focusing on real estate professionals
staggart Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 930
Loc: Idaho Falls, ID, USA
You have probably been pitched for this company. If not, you will shortly be. I've been hit up twice in the past four weeks by folks working the real estate community.

United First Financial sells proprietary software for $3500. It is supposed to help you pay off your mortgage and debts faster by using a combination of a home equity line and the software to maximize the efficiency of your payoff efforts. Supposedly it uses amazingly complicated financial formulas that are beyond the ken of mere mortals.

That was the first element that set off alarm bells with me. I have a degree in economics and I've taken advanced statistics and calculus courses. I've never been unable to follow a financial calculation before. I believe my initial uneasiness has been born out by my scrutiny of the program.

This is a multi-level organization. Thus, you will find that the advocates of this program approach it with an almost religious fervor. It is magical! It is life changing! Only they have the formula! Get in the ground floor and make lots of money!

Of note, their sale people have been focusing on real estate and mortgage professionals. I suspect the reasons are several. If we embrace their program, that will add credence to their efforts. Plus, we interact with people who have mortgages every day. And, with the market slowdown, many real estate folks are stressed financially. The pitch I was given focused on the point that I would profit by allowing UFF agents to approach my company's customers, earning a kickback of a couple hundred dollars per sale.

This is a scam. There is no magic formula. Nor, is impossible to replicate the impact of the software. And, once you understand what is happening, this entire program loses credibility.

There is considerable mumbo-jumbo about how is will reduce your effective interest and magically pay-off your mortgage. What it is really doing is encouraging you to divert your discretionary income towards your mortgage (which you can do without buying this software) and borrowing to obtain additional sums to apply towards your mortgage. Logically, the entire program seems too good be true. Why would one use a relatively high interest home equity line to pay off the debt associated with a lower interest mortgage? And, you will likely increase your debt load. If your income plunges because of a job loss, divorce or other trauma, you'll be put at greater risk.

The pitch is strong. But, it is frankly rather silly. I just sat down and ran scenarios paying small monthly sums on my mortgage. By doing so, you can match or beat the United First Financial plan without paying $3500 and without additional financial risk.

I know many in real estate sales are stressed by the softness in the real estate market. That makes us more vulnerable to pitches like this. But, remember a basic point. One cannot get something for nothing. There are no magic or secret pills, formulas, etc. There are only folks trying to make money off of your belief that such exist.

If you embrace this program and pitch it to your friends, families, work associates and clients, you will lose credibility will all.

If you are even tempted by this or similar schemes (apparently there are several competitive mortgage reduction schemes running around), please take a few minutes to put the tempting program in front of a professor of finance, a financial planner or some other disinterested party before you commit.

The way you make money in real estate is by selling real estate (and, arguably, investing in real estate). Anything else is a distraction at best and a scam at worst.
_________________________
Steve Taggart
Broker
CENTURY 21 Advantage
Southeast Idaho's Real Estate Leader(sm)
The GOLD Standard(sm)
400 W. Sunnyside Road
Idaho Falls, ID 83402
(208) 524-2121
http://www.IFhomes.com
http://www.IFreschool.com
staggart@ida.net

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#238331 - 07/16/08 04:53 PM Re: United First Financial - scam now focusing on real estate professionals [Re: staggart]
bpoker Offline
Member

Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 14
Loc: CA
One of my friend lost lot of money dealing with this company.

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#238341 - 07/16/08 05:18 PM Re: United First Financial - scam now focusing on real estate professionals [Re: bpoker]
Cave Man Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 582
Loc: CA
People are always coming up with scams and our government and DA offices are pathetically slow in responding to them.

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#238548 - 07/17/08 02:15 PM Re: United First Financial - scam now focusing on real estate professionals [Re: Cave Man]
FL Realtor Offline
Member

Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 213
Loc: Florida
I don't understand. Are you telling me that I can't just magically payoff my loan in 7 years instead of 30 years by paying this company $3500? Next you'll be telling me that I can't just put water in my gas tank and expect my car to run on it.

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#238555 - 07/17/08 02:47 PM Re: United First Financial - scam now focusing on real estate professionals [Re: FL Realtor]
estatereal Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 2746
Loc: LAND OF THE FREE!
instead of putting water in your tank, make some of the kool aid that the mlms love so much.

i was at a listing presentation the other day... this has happened to me on two different occasions. the seller tried to pitch me on their product(i can get residuals)! i love it.

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#242356 - 08/04/08 06:21 PM Re: United First Financial - scam now focusing on real estate professionals [Re: estatereal]
Team Sue Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/04/08
Posts: 1
Loc: Orlando, FL
Let me jump in here and defend my honor, and my company, please.

Of course you are dead right. There is no "magic formula" as math is math. The United First Financial program has two components to it... a software program and coaching. The software is more sophisticated than a spreadsheet program... but it is still just doing math.

Is a $3500 investment in ones financial future worth it to some people? ... yes.
To others ... no.

It is that simple. Some people think this program is pricey. That does not make it a scam. We all have to make our own judgements based on how well we know ourselves, what our strengths and weaknesses are, what our time is worth and what our goals are. This program will manage unlimited debts and mortgages, and optimize cash flow, in much less time than you could ever do yourself.

I have my Mothers Condo listed for sale. I will be paying a Realtor a commission for selling it. Is that a scam? I could do it myself. I used to have a Real Estate license, I used to sell real estate myself before I started doing training for realtors in sales and marketing. It will probably cost me $7000 in commissions to sell it. That sure seems like a lot for maybe a half hour of showing the place and maybe another hour of paperwork. What am I paying for exactly?

Sure, some folks bash the UFIRST program. I'm sure some of the "bashers" are well meaning also. However none of the "bashers" have actually SEEN and used the program. They made their judgement based on a look at whatever they could find in the way of marketing materials, a presentation, or by reading others opinions and information on the internet blogs (we know how accurate/scientific THAT is).

I don't have a problem with a real expert "reviewing" a program. But don't you think that a real "review" or opinion should be done the way the car reviewers do? The folks that review cars drive the car for a number of months so they get an accurate feel for it's features and performance. They DON'T review it by looking at the brochures and walking around it simply "eyeballing" it. In fact, in the scientific world, you would give whatever it is to a group to use, and you would also have a "control" group who did not use it, so you could compare the results of the two groups.

In my opinion a true "professional" would never risk their credibility and reputation by offering an opinion about something they have not inspected, seen perform, and actually used.

Part of an agents job is to sell Real Estate, but as a professional, shouldn't you be up on the various tools that help your clients? If you can show a real estate investor how to build a portfolio faster using the same cash flow... doesn't that help him... and make you look good? If you can show a client a simple way to pocket thousands that could have gone to the mortgage company... won't they be able to afford a bigger house next time... and in the meantime... send you more referrals? What about your clients you sold houses to last year that are upside down now? Don't you feel an obligation to help them? And if, by doing so, you can increase your real estate business... how is that a distraction?

Do you wonder if there are people with financial backgrounds that have endorsed this? Of course... I have two accountants and an attorney that are using this program. I have the owners of a large financial planning firm and the owners of a large mortgage company also that are both clients, and agents. Over 80% of my UFirst agents are licensed in one of the big 3... RE, finance or insurance. These are people with fiduciary duties and a license to protect. These are people that don't make snap judgements. They do their due diligence.

Here are some independent experts that HAVE fully reviewed the program... by using it, "test-driving" it, etc. After looking at all the various features and benefits provided by the program, and the support that United First Financial provides it's clients, they said this...

"Impressive" ...Fred Skousen, PhD, CPA and former Dean of the Marriott School of Business at Brigham Young

"Leader in the industry" & "Editors Choice Award"...Personal Real Estate Investor Magazine.

"It works, 3 of us at the station have been using it since Nov" ...Channel 3 News, Las Vegas

"Outstanding Company of the Month" ...Broker Banker magazine

"Entrepreneur of the Year" ...Utah Region of Ernst & Young (awarded to the founders of UFIRST)

Other experts who have either endorsed the program, or are actually USING the program themselves, include...

Douglas Andrew, author of "Missed Fortune", "Millionaire by Thirty" and "Last Chance Millionaire"

Mark Victor Hansen, author of "One Minute Millionaire" and "Chicken Soup for the Soul."

This is not magic, it's not a scam, it is simply a financial management software tool and a coaching program that provides a service.

Could you do something similar yourself? Sure... everyone knows that. Did you know that statistically only about 4% of people consistently pre-pay on a mortgage though?

95% of UFIRST clients, after 5 years, are still logging in monthly to use the program. Some have already paid off their mortgages and debts.

This program is simple to use, it saves time and it works. As to whether it is the right decision for any particular individual... that is a personal decision they need to make. Are they part of the 4%? If so, then "no," they don't need this.

If they are like many of us though... it might be the best investment they ever make... in a tool, and a program, that has been proven to work and gets results. Sometimes the crazy thing is to do the same thing over and over again... expecting a different outcome.

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#242379 - 08/04/08 08:47 PM Re: United First Financial - scam now focusing on real estate professionals [Re: Team Sue]
super realtor Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 05/01/05
Posts: 8391
Loc: georgia
Sounds like a waste of money to me. I could take there 3,500 and grow it really fast with the right investments overshadowing and outpacing the interest they are paying on the mortgage.

This is why people do not pay off there mortgages. If I own a 150k house and it's paid for that money is just DEAD for years without growing. If I take the same 150k and invest it wisely I can turn it into millions.

Just a different perspective on things.

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#242394 - 08/04/08 09:59 PM Re: United First Financial - scam now focusing on real estate professionals [Re: Team Sue]
Merkaba Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 1085
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: Team Sue
...
I have my Mothers Condo listed for sale. I will be paying a Realtor a commission for selling it. Is that a scam? I could do it myself. I used to have a Real Estate license, I used to sell real estate myself before I started doing training for realtors in sales and marketing. It will probably cost me $7000 in commissions to sell it. That sure seems like a lot for maybe a half hour of showing the place and maybe another hour of paperwork. What am I paying for exactly?...



Well no wonder you're not an agent anymore. Now that you're not you get to bash commissions? Hey if you sell it in one thirty minute showing then thats a good fast sell! If you don't know the statistics on realtor vs fsbo then don't blame us. Sell it yourself without paying a commission. Advertise on the web and bring your own buyer! You don't have to pay a commission. What, most buyers have agents that want a commission? Why, because they like the value? Tell us why you didnt do a FSBO or fee for service? Thanks for proving your thought process and credibility.
_________________________
Realtor Extraordinaire, ABR, E-Pro

Keller Williams Realty
Upstate South Carolina

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#242414 - 08/04/08 10:44 PM Re: United First Financial - scam now focusing on real estate professionals [Re: Merkaba]
staggart Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 930
Loc: Idaho Falls, ID, USA
Team Sue -

You've got me rolling on the floor.

Let's start with Fred Skousen. Over a decade ago he was an accounting professor. I used his book when I took accounting. For the last decade he has been the athletic director for BYU --- and a very controversial one at that -- who arguably undermined BYU football, basketball and most of the other programs. Probably the most despised AD in BYU history. That's who you are relying on???

The Ernst & Young award. These "awards" are for fast-growing companies that the accounting firm wants to land as clients. They love MLM companies. A few recent winners . . Xango (magic juice), Pre-Paid Legal Services (useless legal services) and Bookwise (don't get me going). All "network marketing" companies. Not impressed.

Broker Banker Magazine - prints articles on advertisers.

Most of the rest of the quotes/supporters are folks with a long history in the multi-level industry.

I lived in Utah for some years. I know personally many of the folks you listed.

I still stand by my opinion.

You can believe all day you are helping people. Just remember that when your family and friends --- whom you've dragged into this silliness --- all come to resent you for introducing them to United First. It will happen. My guess is sooner rather than later.
_________________________
Steve Taggart
Broker
CENTURY 21 Advantage
Southeast Idaho's Real Estate Leader(sm)
The GOLD Standard(sm)
400 W. Sunnyside Road
Idaho Falls, ID 83402
(208) 524-2121
http://www.IFhomes.com
http://www.IFreschool.com
staggart@ida.net

Top
#242435 - 08/04/08 11:57 PM Re: United First Financial - scam now focusing on real estate professionals [Re: Team Sue]
estatereal Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 2746
Loc: LAND OF THE FREE!
i will type in red so that it is easy to read

Originally Posted By: Team Sue
Let me jump in here and defend my honor, and my company, please.

Of course you are dead right. There is no "magic formula" as math is math. The United First Financial program has two components to it... a software program and coaching. The software is more sophisticated than a spreadsheet program... but it is still just doing math.

Is a $3500 investment in ones financial future worth it to some people? ... yes.
To others ... no.

It is that simple. Some people think this program is pricey. That does not make it a scam. We all have to make our own judgements based on how well we know ourselves, what our strengths and weaknesses are, what our time is worth and what our goals are. This program will manage unlimited debts and mortgages, and optimize cash flow, in much less time actually, later on in this thread you state that 4% can do it themself, so there is a way to do it yourself than you could ever do yourself.

I have my Mothers Condo listed for sale. I will be paying a Realtor a commission for selling it. Is that a scam? I could do it myself if you could you would, but you obviously see the value in using an agent . I used to have a Real Estate license, I used to sell real estate myself before I started doing training for realtors in sales and marketing why do you not have a license now, what made you get out of the business? . It will probably cost me $7000 in commissions to sell it. That sure seems like a lot for maybe a half hour of showing the place and maybe another hour of paperwork. What am I paying for exactly? if you really were an agent, you would know that a half hour of showings and 1 hour of paperwork wont sell a house. if it were that easy, you would still be selling re.

Sure, some folks bash the UFIRST program. I'm sure some of the "bashers" are well meaning also. However none of the "bashers" have actually SEEN and used the program. They made their judgement based on a look at whatever they could find in the way of marketing materials, a presentation, or by reading others opinions and information on the internet blogs (we know how accurate/scientific THAT is).

I don't have a problem with a real expert "reviewing" a program. But don't you think that a real "review" or opinion should be done the way the car reviewers do? The folks that review cars drive the car for a number of months so they get an accurate feel for it's features and performance. They DON'T review it by looking at the brochures and walking around it simply "eyeballing" it. In fact, in the scientific world, you would give whatever it is to a group to use, and you would also have a "control" group who did not use it, so you could compare the results of the two groups.

In my opinion a true "professional" would never risk their credibility and reputation by offering an opinion about something they have not inspected, seen perform, and actually used.

Part of an agents job is to sell Real Estate, but as a professional, shouldn't you be up on the various tools that help your clients? If you can show a real estate investor how to build a portfolio faster using the same cash flow... doesn't that help him... and make you look good? If you can show a client a simple way to pocket thousands that could have gone to the mortgage company... won't they be able to afford a bigger house next time... and in the meantime... send you more referrals? What about your clients you sold houses to last year that are upside down now? Don't you feel an obligation to help them? And if, by doing so, you can increase your real estate business... how is that a distraction?

Do you wonder if there are people with financial backgrounds that have endorsed this? Of course... I have two accountants and an attorney that are using this program. I have the owners of a large financial planning firm and the owners of a large mortgage company also that are both clients, and agents. Over 80% of my UFirst agents are licensed in one of the big 3... RE, finance or insurance. These are people with fiduciary duties and a license to protect. These are people that don't make snap judgements. They do their due diligence. people in re, finance and insurance are some of hte most gullible people that i have ever run across. we are a breed of people often looking to make fast bucks and are some of hte easiest people to "sell" gimmicks to.

Here are some independent experts that HAVE fully reviewed the program... by using it, "test-driving" it, etc. After looking at all the various features and benefits provided by the program, and the support that United First Financial provides it's clients, they said this...

"Impressive" ...Fred Skousen, PhD, CPA and former Dean of the Marriott School of Business at Brigham Young

"Leader in the industry" & "Editors Choice Award"...Personal Real Estate Investor Magazine.

"It works, 3 of us at the station have been using it since Nov" ...Channel 3 News, Las Vegas

"Outstanding Company of the Month" ...Broker Banker magazine

"Entrepreneur of the Year" ...Utah Region of Ernst & Young (awarded to the founders of UFIRST)

Other experts who have either endorsed the program, or are actually USING the program themselves, include...

Douglas Andrew, author of "Missed Fortune", "Millionaire by Thirty" and "Last Chance Millionaire"

Mark Victor Hansen, author of "One Minute Millionaire" and "Chicken Soup for the Soul."

This is not magic, it's not a scam, it is simply a financial management software tool and a coaching program that provides a service.

Could you do something similar yourself? Sure... everyone knows that. Did you know that statistically only about 4% of people consistently pre-pay on a mortgage though?

95% of UFIRST clients, after 5 years, are still logging in monthly to use the program. Some have already paid off their mortgages and debts.

This program is simple to use, it saves time and it works. As to whether it is the right decision for any particular individual... that is a personal decision they need to make. Are they part of the 4%? If so, then "no," they don't need this.

If they are like many of us though... it might be the best investment they ever make... in a tool, and a program, that has been proven to work and gets results. Sometimes the crazy thing is to do the same thing over and over again... expecting a different outcome. i thought that was the definition of insanity?



how come every time i read about ufirst, i see nothing but ufirst bashing? i have yet to see anyone stand up for hte product except the people who sell it. i have looked into many different forums and threads where lo's discuss the product. the only people that i see who are for the ufirst product are the sales people, the majority of the other people either know nothing about it, or have reasons why it is not a great product like it is made out to be.

i can tell you that i dont know the product, but i would not take the word of someone selling it. i would only trust the product if someone i trusted came to me and told me about it and showed me hard numbers.

i run a business (expired listings <you sold re, so i know that you know what they are) that thrives on meeting strangers and selling my services. the difference is that i am selling a service where the buyer is already familiar with the product i am selling. most people have only heard bad things about ufirst. i dont believe testimonials unless i know hte person who wrote them. i am not one of the gullible agents who buys leads or cares waht someone who has a phd or wrote a book says...agents buy junk all the time.....

if hte product was so great, how come we dont hear more positive things about it? wouldn't there be more people using hte product? i sell homes for a aliving. most of my conversations that i have in a week are about homes. i dont hear people raving about ufirst. why?

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#245802 - 08/22/08 02:02 PM Re: United First Financial - scam now focusing on real estate professionals [Re: staggart]
L2Gman Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/22/08
Posts: 2
Loc: US
[quote=staggart]
Let's start with Fred Skousen. Over a decade ago he was an accounting professor. I used his book when I took accounting. For the last decade he has been the athletic director for BYU --- and a very controversial one at that -- who arguably undermined BYU football, basketball and most of the other programs. Probably the most despised AD in BYU history. That's who you are relying on???
[/quote]

Just a question, if you know if there is any connection of K. Fred Skousen to Jeff Skousen or Todd Skousen? I know there are a lot of Skousens in Utah, but I noticed a Jeff Skousen is a loan officer for Accelerated Equity & Development
[url=https://1363604809.secure-loancenter.com/EmployeeDetail.aspx?EmployeeID=1619&]link[/url]

It looks like he (Jeff) graduated from BYU, started Magellan Capital Mortgage, LLC with Todd Skousen and Mark Skousen. (Search for Magellan Capital at Utah's Buisiness Entity Search)

[url=https://secure.utah.gov/bes/action/index]link[/url]

Todd Skousen has been mentioned by some UFF agents as giving marketing/product speeches to UFirst agents [url=http://www.brookebarnett.com/tag/todd-skousen/]here.[/url]

And Accelerated Equity & Development is the "... preferred lender for United First Financial's Money Merge Account you can count on us to simplify the process for both the Agent and their Clients" as shown on their front page.

[url=http://3058039163.brokersite.com/]link[/url]

I personally don't know if Mr. Fred Skousen is related in any way to these others Skousens who seem linked as interested parties to UFF, but it sure makes for interesting reading.

If Mr. Fred Skousen still thinks UFF's MMA is "Impressive..." (I've only seen this quote with nothing in place of the elipses, btw) than he is not like any accountant professor I know.

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#245815 - 08/22/08 03:15 PM Re: United First Financial - scam now focusing on real estate professionals [Re: L2Gman]
staggart Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 930
Loc: Idaho Falls, ID, USA
L2Gman -- I really have no idea. But, that would be a logical explanation if true.
_________________________
Steve Taggart
Broker
CENTURY 21 Advantage
Southeast Idaho's Real Estate Leader(sm)
The GOLD Standard(sm)
400 W. Sunnyside Road
Idaho Falls, ID 83402
(208) 524-2121
http://www.IFhomes.com
http://www.IFreschool.com
staggart@ida.net

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#246022 - 08/23/08 10:12 PM Re: United First Financial - scam now focusing on real estate professionals [Re: staggart]
barb43 Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 927
Loc: SW Okla
Heh, it's a real no-brainer for me: Someone comes asking me for $3500 so they can improve my life (in any way) and I'm only going to send them right back out the door.

#1, I don't have $3500 to play around with;
#2, whatever money I do have, I can buy more good real estate to fix up and rent out than I would benefit from whatever the person was selling; and
#3, mlm is an instant red flag for me and we're done, right then and there.
_________________________
Remodeling houses & helping tenants get ahead in life since 1983. Licensed Realtor since 2005. Addicted to BPOs and working to expand.

LIMITATIONS: Until You Spread Your Wings, You'll Have No Idea How Far You Can Walk. - despair.com

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#247096 - 08/29/08 08:30 PM Re: United First Financial - scam now focusing on real estate professionals [Re: staggart]
JoeinCT Offline
Member

Registered: 07/21/08
Posts: 43
Loc: Milford, CT
Thank you for the heads up i will paas the information on to my clients
_________________________
Joseph J. Coretti
Milford CT Real Estate
Weichert Regional Properties
203.795.2411

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#255928 - 10/21/08 07:17 AM Re: United First Financial - scam now focusing on real estate professionals [Re: JoeinCT]
ReMan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 1
Loc: Middle USA
So, MLM's are all bad huh? What do you call a car dealership? Someone makes more money at the top I believe. What about a Real Estate office? Broker, Agent, commissions..... hmmmmm sounds like a MLM almost huh? What about someone who wholesells any product? Somewhere along the line someone makes a little off of someone else along the food chain. I hear all the remedies from all the people about "how I can do this" or "anyone can do the same thing". One question: "how's that working for you?" You can probably change your own oil and rotate your own tires too, "how's that been working for you?" You can probably cook out with just fire and not use a stove or oven..... "how's that working for you?"

Uninformed people who haven't used the product, for some reason have some axe to grind, and want to bash it for some reason or another. I've seen it, the software in action since I use it. Can I do it myself? Probably can if I want to spend the time to put together a spreadsheet that will take all my bills (about 23) every month and give me a calculation that will show me how to lower my interest payments in the most efficient manner. I'm a CPA and can create spreadsheets and do math but.... do I want to take the time to re-invent the mouse trap? This works well. If you don't want to spend $3500 to save $300k, $200k, or $50k+ or even $10k then...... don't! Just keep doing what you are doing (or what you say you can do) and I'll check in every once and a while and see "how that's working for you!" One thing about it, you invest in something for $3500 you are darn sure going to use I think.

Have a great day and God bless. I'll be checking in to hear all the success stories from you all out there that can do it by yourself. Meanwhile I'll be lowering my debt with a software that really works! And.... if you find some other product out there that costs less and does the same thing as efficiently as the MMA software, please enlighten us all here with your knowledge. I'll be waiting with bells on my toes!

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