had a friend in NY left me a message wanting to know more. I'm sure he's seen an infomercial or etc. just wondering if in NY you have the one year redemption period and if its a bidding war type situation like it is down here in SC. I'm wondering if anyone has ever really gotten a tax sale for the taxes only, ANYWHERE???? does this really happen? anyways...a brief couple of sentences in reply to NY tax sales would be appreciated.

I own property that I bought at Tax Sale in Vermont where there is a 366 day Redemption Period. I think I got the Booby Prize with a land locked parcel. There's usually a reason the Owners don't pay the taxes. And usually the LienHolder (if there is one) comes in during the closing days of the redemption period and redeems the property (i.e. pays the taxes) BEFORE it gets deeded over.

I like paying other people's taxes because we get 1% per month (or any part of a month) while we await their redemption; so 12% per annum isn't bad these days. But there are Booby Prizes ! Even in New York.
You have to research EVERY property that MIGHT go up for Tax Sale even though most have their taxes paid by someone before the event.

I had nightmares a few years ago about almost coming to own a crappy old mobile home complete with mean old ornery Appalachian Type Folks residing inside there who would rather burn the dang place down than let me have it. Luckily "The Money Store" had given them a mortgage and they came an paid the taxes just 2 days before I would have become the Proud New Owner.

lol....ok thanks for the quick response.

Yeah I have seen tax liens on mobile homes with improper title,swamp land,drainage ditches, old gas stations and or industrial sites that needed more epa cleanup then the property was worth.

Basically you have to research and make sure what you are paying on the tax lien is a marketable piece of property if you get stuck with it otherwise they never pay it back you foreclose and are left with something you can't recoup your costs on or make a profit.

Before you ask NO the people selling the tax liens do not tell you if it's a bad property just like attorneys won't tell you they are selling a second loan on the courthouse steps for 10k which it's worthless. They are basically looking for suckers so make sure and do the do diligence.

In Vermont, and New York and Massachusetts at least, you leave the Tax Sale with expectations of Receiving a Tax Collector's Deed, meaning you OWN the property, subject only to the Right of Redemption. If the taxes don't get paid, there is no reason to Foreclose; YOU OWN THE PROPERTY.

But like S.R. said, RESEARCH ! RESEARCH ! RESEARCH !

I watch the big well publicized upcoming Tax Sales like a Hawk (or Vulture) and I've sometimes researched maybe 50 or 75 properties only to watch the number boil off or dwindle down to just a half a dozen or so on the day of the Tax Sale . . . . and those aren't exactly your WINNERS; they're usually the DOGS or as in many cases, instances where otherwise well-to-do Property Owners are trying to make a statement. There's one property up here that's owned by some Connecticut people who just don't want to get with the program and I've paid their taxes 3 or 4 years running; and every year it costs them $1100 to $1500 in Penalties and Attorneys Fees and My Interest - But they keep on doin' it. At least I don't have to research that one.

BTW Sometimes Tax Sale Research and BPO Research involve the very same properties - color me surprised !

ok thanks guys...decided to post again before going out. I talked to my guy and he has a friend in a bank with a list...so wouldnt this list be pretty much useless from a tax sale point of view as, since the bank will probably foreclose and sell the property before redemption?

And also any list of "things to beware" would help and common misconceptions or pitfalls. I've already told him of a few and I will probably cut and paste some of this conversation and send to him so any and all feedback is greatly appreciated. I know this question comes up all the time and I remember asking about it a while back, so thanks for the current replies. I know things vary state to state if not county to county. But I know there are people out there doing tax sales for a living and doing well. Everytime I've asked about it it seems to be something people tell you to not worry about. But hey who knows what could happen or what property could slip through the cracks.

oh and are the sales advertised in the paper? and how often does NY have sales? I know some states are once or twice a year it seems. Thanks

Thanks again guys.

"so wouldnt this list be pretty much useless from a tax sale point of view as, since the bank will probably foreclose and sell the property before redemption?" Not necessarilly; often the Bank just adds the Taxes, Penalties. Fees, and Interest that they have to pay for redemption and simply add it to the Principal Balance of the Mortgage, and try to work things out.

Afterall, every Mortgage started out as a "Good Loan" one day back when . . . . just like all Divorces originally started out as "Good Marriages". Like J.J. keeps saying "Keep Hope Alive", some local Banks really take their time in making that final decision to Foreclose - much to the dismay of their StockHolders.

In Vermont, all Tax Sales are by Township. I think in New York it is by County. As a Public Event, I think all Tax Sales have to be advertised multiple times by the Taxing Authority - otherwise we'd have even more graft and corruption - afterall you were asking primarily about New York !

lol...ok thanks alot Vermont.

Oh another question was can you do anything to the property or do you have any rights to the property during the redemption period. My guess is no but to make sure. Can you set foot on the property, do anything to it, etc. or is the tax certificate just a right to future ownership, as I understand it...??

Just looked it up South Carolina is a tax lien with a redemption period.The interest is 8 percent which isn't that great compared with other states. About 90 to 95 percent of owners will redeem and pay back taxes at the last second.I wouldn't due anything to the property during a redemption period. The statistics show a high amount pay back the taxes plus in some states you don't get possesion just the deed or lien. Possesions doesn't occur until after the redemption period expires.

A good book is Make Money in Real Estate Tax Liens by Chantal Carey and Bill Carey. It goes into detail state by state.

In Vermont, the Town's Attorney drafts the Tax Collectors Deed to you after day 366 +/-. In New York, it is probably called a Sheriff's Deed. So you have to be patient. Until the end of the Redemption Period, the only right you have is the right to receive that 12% Interest, or whatever is paid in your jurisdiction. I stay far away from the Subject premises. Poking around on or near them might be a good prescription for unwanted bullet-holes.

I was once so worried about the anger of the Occupant/Tax(Non)Payer/Mortgagor with regard to the condition the Subject property might be left in, that I inquired about purchasing a Fire Insurance Policy to protect my interests, just in case those Yankee Red-Necks would actually "burn the dang place down". My Insurance Agent checked and discovered that I could not get coverage because the Carriers (again in Vermont) are not required to recognize the insurable interests of the winning Bidder at Tax Sale. You're out there on your own, Pal ! That may not be true in other jurisdictions.

One thing we did not cover above is that the Tax Sale, when actually consumated, gives clear Title. It completely wipes out all other mortgages and liens from anyone EXCEPT maybe Liens from the Internal Revenue Service, which seem to, once created, have life of their own. Its like pulling teeth just to get the up-to-date pay off amount to get them discharaged.

Well, this Tax Sale Topic has been fun to re-think. I learned a lot more from those properties that I DID NOT actually come to own than I did with those where I was successful. I can vividly recall the tortuous aspect of ALMOST coming to own some of these things which thankfully were redeemed (which would have been Booby Prizes). And I really don't relish getting after-dark phone calls from the likes of those cranky deadbeats whose only non-profane words are "I know where you live!" Well, Good Luck to Phil Rosuto and The Money Store ! They deserve each other ! That's what you get from giving Home Equity Loans to people whose only qualification is that they once had a pulse.

Here is the 2008 tax auction role for Buffalo, NY. Many of these properties will be redeemed prior to the auction. Thousands will not. There is no redemption period at the city tax auction.

http://www.ci.buffalo.ny.us/applications/ForeclosureInremListing/default.aspx