BPO company. I just logged into the site to see if it was approved and found that they even changed the comp to one that does not even exist (the property exists, but didn't sell when they say it sold). I forgot to print out a copy for my records before I submitted.

NOT AVM.... Why do agents work for unethical companies like this? If these companies know what comps are there then why are they paying you do a bpo? Makes no sense to me

I would Say something about it.
Once it gets verified, it’s your butt on the line. I have had the same happen to me. I spoke up about it, and never received another order from them again.

Hey Val..we know your company would not have changed values. Welcome again, it's nice to have a rep among us that can feel our pain.

This is why I quit working for evil. Why don't you let us know who it was so we can all keep a watch on our work.

I often do BPOs where, when I pull up the “GRID”, some of the information is already filled in. In the past, this has usually been because some other agent originally took the assignment and then found themselves unable to complete it. Often, this has been because they quickly collected the information on the Subject, input it and then found it impossible to locate appropriate Comps, or enough Comps that would be satisfactory. I always start from scratch so that I can take responsibility for everything that is on the "GRID”. I know who many of these other agents are, and that they are the ones who will work for cheap, as long as the BPO isn’t complicated – then they cut and run if it's difficult.

Recently, I had a BPO “FORM” or grid come down which already had information in it on the Subject which was at serious odds with information that the Town Tax Assessors had in their records. For example, here's what the BPO Company had versus the Assessors on a few items:

GLA: 3340 SF versus 3045 SF;

AGE: 1900 (108 Yrs) versus 1840 (168 Yrs);

BDRMS: 4 versus 7;

LOT SIZE: 3340 SF versus 21780 SF;

BATHS: 2 Full versus 1 (two ½ baths)

After I turned in my Opinion, QC got back to me and said they needed to have the BPO done over with NEW Comps pulled to reflect the information that “they” had put into the Grid about the Subject. I balked at the idea of using information which was, in most cases clearly WRONG; but the QC person says that the Client wants those numbers used because they were on a “Recent Appraisal”. I told him that having been to the property, some of the Appraiser’s figures are clearly absurd and may be typos (like the Lot Size being exactly the same as the GLA).

I said ”You’ve got the correct material from me and you still want me to alter it, to FALSIFY it in order to make it match something you got from a Client who has never been to the Property”. “Who is this Client ?” QC says he does not know ! I said “Well, what is your Name ?” He gave his name to me and I said, “You keep the BPO the way it is”; make a copy and put the incorrect information in to make yourself happy, and turn it in altered, to make the Client happy. I will only associate myself with the falsified version if I can insert a BIG DISCLAIMER that “YOU” asked for the incorrect information to be put on the Subject Column. And as far as the Comps are concerned, the factors you want changed won’t make a bit of difference . . . . they are all BIG, OLD Houses on little bitty LOTS, that have sold recently. Not many to choose from !

In this time with substantial Mortgage Fraud being discovered and publicized, I was wondering if any of the rest of you folks have encountered these Pre-Loaded BPO Grids and wondered how you have handled it. I have never been directly asked to falsify one of these before – maybe it is commonplace ?

I know that we’re not building Cruise Missiles over here; but Real Estate has become a little more of a business of precision in order to stay out of the Court Room, and if I can avoid it, I don’t want my name on anything that I know is FALSE. But I also suspect many get changed AFTER submission without our knowledge - and you just confirmed it !

Lock your pdf.

I don't even know where to begin. It is a well thought of company on this board. They didn't do a good job of fabricating information. The BPO is just not consistent now. I wouldn't accept any new assignments from them.

This happened to me the other day with SS, and then I went back through and looked at my past work, and they have been doing it on all of them! Changing my values, and changing my adjustments. Dont really know what to do about it, but it certainly makes me nervous..

Some servicing companies will do it. Litton said if they don't like a value they will adjust it.

This is not true... All of our bpos are done on a protected site & Litton cannot go in & change any values. They get what we send them. They may make a note on the bpo file that they feel another value is more reasonable after looking at all the comps...but they cannot in anyway change the value you put on our bpos. Maybe for other companies it might be different but not on AVM bpos.

So far no problems here, but I will be upset if they change my work.

I have had this happen to my firm on many occasions throughout the years. Always, Always, Always!!! save & archive copies of the completed bpo***did I say ALWAYS???!!!! Don't trust any company, only trust yourself because when & if you and/or your broker has to utilize your attorney & e&o for such nonsense, you will have the factual proof & documentation in the correspondence to cease further actions in these situations. If anyone even remotely suggest that you alter values etc...beware and document all correspondences that states clearly that these are not your values and that you were asked/forced to change the values by whom ever sent you the email & I always document the BPO with this exact information. I know that the mills dislike it when I document the order with this information but this is business and I have never in my entire career had any lawsuits and never had any lawsuit threats and I will ensure that I don't. That is my responsibility. I have had companies demand that I change my values or I would not be paid because their client was looking for a different value. Save all emails and correspondences and archive them. I have back-ups on all email correspondences, solicited orders, completed orders, clarifications, etc...located in 5 different locations. The unfavorable mills, I let them hang themselves with emails. Stop speaking to these people over the telephone and communicate only through email & problem solved. Over the telephone, it is hear say & your word against theirs. Everyone has editing capibilities!!!

Personally, I don't worry about such nonsense. They are asking for an opinion after all.

Thanks MadHatter... That is Exactly why it is called a Brokers Price Opinion. The servicers & banks know we do not have appraisers doing them.

I never worry about being sued. You can't sue someone over an opinion. I guess you could try but you wouldn't get very far with me. I'd just repeat OVER AND OVER....O-P-I-N-I-O-N.

This happens to my firm quite frequently. I save the form with the mill's documented characteristics and verify this information in my county tax records and/or in mls or both.

If the mill's characteristics conflict with county tax records, I delete the mill's documented information and I document the order with information which is deemed most accurate (county records). I always document the notes stating that the order already had the subject property characteristics documented & this information that was provided by XYZ Company conflicts with what is recorded in county records and that I utilized what is recorded in county records. I email my supporting document(county tax record) to the mill/requestor & if the form/order has capabilities, I upload the document into the order as well.

I have had XYZ Company qc me/email me with demands to utilize their information or I would not be paid. My response to them: Forward legal documentation that support your characteristics. The order is approved, closed and I do get paid. It is not about who's correct & who is incorrect, it is about the facts and legal supporting documents. Not one time has a mill forwarded any type of supporting document in this situation. And yes, I have heard it all before. 'our client has supplied us with a recent appraisal'.....If this is factual, email it to me!! The End. I still get work from these companies. Some work I take if it is convenient for me and others, I don't entertain.

Many, many times, previous work done by either agents or appraisers has been wrong according to public records. I will always either upload or email (even if I have to do it several times) the public records. I have had "appraisers" include a horsebarn or stable in the GLA, or a utility building or a detached garage/workshop. The assessor usually has the correct information - breakdown of the structures. I document in my comments or addendums, too.

So many times, I guess, banks have loaned on this bogus information. At some point, it has to be stopped, and the accurate property information has to be given. I reckon a lot of these bad "appraisals" were done by folks who never saw the property.

I don't know if my values/comps are ever changed. I don't look because I do print out a copy of all my reports when submitting and keep them in the order folder.

I doubt E & Os ever come into play as they only cover transactions, not an opinion. One cannot get E & Os for opinions, only.

Roxie, We provide an appraisal for EVERY order when the banks ask us to have an agent correct a bpo & some times yes an appraisal is wrong. I found that in some incidences it is either wrong or old info. Tax records are not always correct either but in any case we provide legal documentation if we ask an agent to look at their bpo again. I agree with Due.... this is why we ask that agents DO NOT pay companies to take their pics. You cannot properly value a property without seeing it in its entirety.

You have never provided an appraisal for my review when you solicit orders to my firm.

Do you only send them to the broker when there is something in question/something that conflicts with the completed order?

Do you send the appraisal to the broker at the time of the solicitation?

I have never had an issue with AVM at all.

If there were ever a problem with county records versus an appraisal, I utilized county records. If an appraisal is in fact current & factual, it then must/should be filed with the county tax office for legal recording.

Often times, they are not filed because in-turn, this will often increase the value of the property causing a dominoe affect on costs such as all taxes associated, insurance & even HOA fees.

If a mill can't & doesn't provide my firm with documentation of what they are stating, I notify them in writing that my findings are firm and that they have a copy of a legally recorded document that I submitted and that my request for their supporting document was not honored.

We only send them out when the bank questions them. Are you kidding I could not send out 15,000 appraisals a month when we solicit orders. If an agent needs one we do try to obtain it for them though. I did not say in my previous message that I send them out w/ every order... it says we send it out when the bank is questioning the completed bpo. I have no idea who you are so I cannot tell you if we have ever had issues with your bpos but I believe you when you say you haven't

Thanks DueDiligence: What a well thought out response ! And legible too. I was just reminded of a Transaction I had in Fall of 2007 when I was waiting for an Appraisal to be conducted BEFORE I involved the Attorneys. I thought because it was a vacant house and ONLY I had the key, I would be getting a call from an Appraiser to make an appointment and let him/her in. I was wrong.

Instead, surprisingly, I got a call from the Buyer telling me the Appraisal WAS ALREADY DONE. I checked with the Lender (BOA) and after a few visits to their Voice Mail, I was told that BOA doesn't bother with HUMAN Appraisals anymore, like on loans that are less than $417,000. Anything less than a so-called JUMBO. It was fun (and annoying) to find out that my dinky little $345,000 Sale was too trifling to bother real people with. They just use an AVM (Automated Vauluation Method) using Assessors information (costing a mere $35.00).

I had been concerned that the property wouldn't appraise for the required "magic number" so I was pleasantly surprised.

In this case, the Assessors Information held the Subject up as being worth maybe $120,000 more than the Current Market Value PLUS it only had a only partial basement, no Garage and one bath less in reality than on the Assessor's Records. The Assessors haven't made a physical inspection of the premises in 17 years ! So now the Buyer is dismayed that what he thought was such a great deal ISN'T.

I recently told him to go to our annual "Grievance Day" to try for a lower Assessment in the future; but forget about that Home Equity Loan ! So much for being expeditious and FRUGAL.

Could this be in anyway related to our Mortgage Meltdown, along with all those Low Doc/No Doc Loans to people with a Pulse ? Just doin' my job.

Hmm.. at the Colorado conference Phil B said that they will change the value if the one you gave does not make sense with the comps you gave.. I thought it was a crazy thing to say, but he said it. My whold table was like... wtf?

I've actually had AVM change my values before. I save all completed valuations and MLS comps as a PDF in case I ever need to refer back to it at some point. I had a QC request and noticed my values had been changed from my original. Not common but it has happened. This was last year, so procedures may now be in place to prevent this. After I brought the changes to their attention and modified the values back to my original opinion, they stopped sending me future orders. I really liked working for AVM but I was concerned about the alteration of my opinion of value.

I've had a many year relationship with AVM and can't ever remember a value being changed, although I have had QC calls when they had a prior appraisal.
Usually the prior appraisal was some pie in the sky number that was used to meet a contract sales price a long time ago or with size and room count different from the available records, but I have seen one or two that were clearly inflated above belief.

Can you please send me the address of the bpo you are referring to? I want to look into it because we DO NOT change agent values.

The may change it in writing on a file after looking at list & sold comps but they CANNOT actually change what you have typed on a bpo. The process is called "CMV"ing a bpo. They look at all the comps & more than likley other bpos that have been done to determine a price...as said before your value is just an OPINION..but they DO NOT & CANNOT change your actual price on our bpo form.

I just confirmed this with Phil & here is his response to answer your questions & clear your minds..it pretty much confirms my earlier response:

Val> You are not Actually/Physically changing the value on our bpo reports right? I am just trying to set the record straight to some agents.

Phil>No, what we are doing is taking their BPO and adjusting it based on looking at a second opinion BPO and/or an appraisal and using that new value as our Cal REO CMV when we put a market plan together for our client. We do not physically change their value


PLEASE remeber when you are doing bpos that this is YOUR personal OPINION of value. Our clients take all considerations in account when determing what they think the current Market Value should be. A bpo is a just a small piece of the reo pie...so to speak

Does AVM expect agents to include comparables not within the MLS system? Say on realquest only? or on tax records only? my understanding is that these can not be verified as arms length transactions and much of the other data ie original list price; time on market etc is unavailable; making them uunacceptable comps.
Thanks

We want MlS comps...UNLESS it is rural & you have to resort to other places to even get a comp.

Some companies will do it.

I'm doing a BPO in an area where there is just one closed comp in the last 6 months and 2 in a year. Subject is a townhouse, there are other closed comps but are condos. What do you suggest that I have t do? Thanks!

Pinky

Just expand your search radius until you get the comparables you need and then comment a lot.

Thanks

Here is an email I just received from a well known bpo company requesting my permission to lower my suggested value:

Good afternoon

This BPO was ordered alongside with a full appraisal for the same property. My client requires that the values on both reports are within 10% of each other.

The appraisal came in at $96,000. This value is a 90 day quick sale value that the client has requested.

I am requesting your permission to lower the value on this Bpo to come within 10% of the appraised value.

If you disagree please provide a detailed comment as to why so I can add it to the report. This is a time sensitive issue with my client so a prompt response would be greatly appreciated

In 15 years of providing bpo's this is a first for me.

I'd respond to that email with : Absolutely. I can do it if you'd prefer.

I would not do this. Some agents are easily persuaded because they feel that they may not obtain any future work from a company. I would stand firm on my pricing based on my current local market conditions, comps, values etc...

If an agent change their values based on what someone prefers, this is not a true/factual/honest/unbiased valuation and thus the integrity and value of the property has been compromised via persuasion of what someone would prefer.

Remember that the feds are currently investigating and prosecuting appraisal fraud/inflated values etc....

Stick to your guns and simply document the order with factual supporting information and also notify the requestor that your values can't be persuaded because this would not be your true opinion and would also be fraudulent.

Don't you think it depends on the situation? The appraisal could be at $96k and the BPO could be at $107k. In order to be within 10%, the BPO would beed to be around $105k. I don't know about you, but usually when I am doing a BPO, there is a range that I could give for a value, not just one specific dollar amount. If someone wanted me to make a small adjustment and I felt that it was still well within the range of the property's value, I would do it.

OHAgent, except for one small, ittsy-bittsy thing. Appraisers look at a property differently than we do. They use different standards than we do. In California, they are licensed to do appraisals and we're licensed to sell real estate. We look at the market differently. The regulatory agency that governs appraisers in California has issued guidelines for appraisers who do BPOs under their real estate license *NOT* to utilize their appraisal license number in the preparation of the BPO so that it does not read, or be misconstrued, as an appraisal.

We can argue all day long as to whether we loosely follow the general principals of an appraisal but the truth is unless you're an appraiser you do not perform an appraisal and follow the same guidelines as an appraiser.

There is nothing to say that the appraisal is right either. It's called an opinion.

Well really it depends on how much they want to change it. If it's a matter of a few thousand dollars...okay. I'll change it, no problem.
I look at it like this. If a doctor says you a bacterial infection, he would like you to take a powerful antibiotic. A nurse then says yes, you have an infection of some kind and need an antibiotic. Are you going to listen to the doctor or the nurse?
I don't feel like I'm necessarily wrong but I'm not going to argue my value against a licensed appraiser either.
That would be like the nurse arguing with the doctor.

Now if the appraisers amount and my amount were waaaayyyyy off I'd have to take another look at the BPO and if I felt I was right THEN I'd argue.

I've never had that happen.

Absolutely not. The laws & guidelines for appraisers & RE brokers/agents are different and must be followed as such. In this industry, you must know, adhere to and be able to dinstinguish between your laws and responsibilities versus laws & responsibilities in this industry that fall under the RE umbrella.

Never allow anyone to change your documentation of values. Never agreee to change your documentation of values or even entertain such in any type of communication.

Any company or person that would suggest this is not a company or person that I would affiliate myself with.

I do understand that agents are skeptical of standing their grounds when dealing with these AM companies because it may have an effect on their 'rating' however, I am not one of them. Never had a 'rating' concern and my plate is completely full with RE transactions & REO listings including BPOs.

BPO's & REO's are flooding my office. Myself & the agents in my office are performing BPO's 7 days a week due to the fact that we have a direct assign with a major financial institution for all of their Houston and surrounding area properties. I work everyday. I have no time to enjoy holidays.

As long as your are accurate with your data entry, complete the order on time(and no, you do not have to turn them in early, just on time and not later than it's agreed due date and due time), provied a quality report, provide factual information and document the order accordingly, you will not have a 'rating' problem. You will obtain more business just as I have over the last 30 years.

[quote=MadHatter]Well really it depends on how much they want to change it. If it's a matter of a few thousand dollars...okay. I'll change it, no problem.
I look at it like this. If a doctor says you a bacterial infection, he would like you to take a powerful antibiotic. A nurse then says yes, you have an infection of some kind and need an antibiotic. Are you going to listen to the doctor or the nurse?
I don't feel like I'm necessarily wrong but I'm not going to argue my value against a licensed appraiser either.
That would be like the nurse arguing with the doctor.

Now if the appraisers amount and my amount were waaaayyyyy off I'd have to take another look at the BPO and if I felt I was right THEN I'd argue.

I've never had that happen.[/quote]





Wrong answer. Also, you can't intersect doctor's & nurses with this industry.

Just for the sake of entertining your method of thought, I must ask: Dr Bombay? Dr. Jekyll? Dr. Phil? Dr. Kevorkian? Nurse Ratched? I always make my own decisions regardless of what is suggested and regardless of the suggester. What if you went to your Dr and your Dr informed you that you have a tumor and to let her/him worry about it. Would you? All instructions and advice are not good.

I have requested a copy of the appraisers report to see what his comps were. I feel like my bpo was solid and the suggested sales price was on target. I am waiting to see if they will provide the report to me.

I had another company asked me to re-do my bpo because they said I had used the wrong sq. ft. for the subject property. Three previous bpo's had used 2500 sq. ft. for the subject. Subject property was new, built in 2007 and never listed in the MLS. I pulled my data from the property appraisers office and I knew the builder. I double checked my sources and I was correct in the sq. ft. being 3103 NOT 2500. So I copied my documentation and emailed it to the bpo company.

Soooooooooo argumentative. Wrong answer according to whom? Maybe it's the wrong answer for YOU but it's the way I choose to answer the question. You can do your BPO's however YOU want. But in MY opinion if an appraiser has legitimate comps and the values aren't drastically off I don't have a problem with doing what they ask. See...that's the right answer for ME> YOU can do YOURS however YOU want.

Not so argumentative at all. If your comps support the final value(s) for the subject, why would YOU change your values based on an appraisers value or what someone else would suggest?

The reason for a BPO is to obtain the local broker's price opinion that would truely/honestly/factualy represent the subject's final current local market pricing in the subject's immediate/particular area, not to price the subject at a price that someone else feels or suggest would be better. In other words, an UNBIASED opinion. YOUR method is BIASED.

Your method is unethical in my opinion and something that I never have done and never would do.

Remember that an appraiser is appraising the property based on the subject's current interior & exterior condition, land acreage, dwelling sqftg, interior/exterior amenities, land value etc... The appraiser is not appraising the subject to sell it at a particular price, the appraiser is appraising the subject to obtain the current value based on what I stated above.

Here is something else to consider about appraisers. Often properties are appraised from an exterior drive-by assestment and what is recorded in County records without obtaining interior access. So often, residents make changes, additions, upgrades and add amenities and features on the interior of a property and without the appraiser obtaining interior access, it is impossible to obatin a true value of said property.

If YOU change your values based on what someone suggest, what is the purpose of the BPO? Afterall, you should know your local market better than the AM company and better than the appraiser. You are(supposed to be)the RE professional.

Hopefully this well assist you in all of your future RE endeavors.

Amen. Some of these postings make it sound like there is one and only one value for a house. Bunk. I'm trying to imagine the bottom line on some of their BPO's...$282,016.14. Yep, that's my value. No...there's not a high and a low, that's pretty much it. Not a penny less, not a penny more.

I do prefer that the company NOT adjust my value though. IF I feel it's appropriate I prefer to adjust it myself.

If the change requested fell within my range of value for the property, I would consider the whole "appraisal methodology & definition / bpo methodology & definition" tangential to the request. I can agree that there are vast differences in the two and still agree to modify my value within a range of appropriate values for the property. It might as well be because their numerologist didn't like the way the digits added up. The bottom line is whether the amount of the change is acceptable given my range of values for the property.

What you failed to understand is the reason for a BPO.
Bottom line is that YOUR final documented value(s) are BIASED based on YOUR METHODOLOGY and agreement to adjust YOUR values. YOU are persuaded by an outside source.

YOU are not providing an unbiased value.

You are a neutral party or supposed to be for that matter.

It is an opinion of value(s), not to be misconstrued with as you stated, 'one' value. I dont know about YOUR orders but mine all have either/or a combination of 120 day/90 day & 30 day as is & repaired value(s) and thus there is no as you stated, 'one value for a house'.

I do indeed wonder about some agent's knowledge or lack there of pertaining to this industry.

This industry is most definitely taking turns that are very unfavorable. It will eventually rid itself of/weed out such unfavorable & unethical practices. It is just a matter of time.

Who are you and what qualifies you to make all these statements about people you don't know and their work that you've never seen?! And do you know Roxie and Lucille?

This thread just made me cringe. It is an opinion of value based on the comps. No one should be telling you where they want their value to fall. The banks we work for might question it if it is a certain % difference from the appraisal & ask for an explanation, but never tell you where the value should fall. Conroe is absolutely correct... this is your opinion of value compared to the comps & the market trend...hence the name CMA - current market analysis or BPO - broker price opinion Please do not reply " Absolutely. I can do it if you'd prefer.” If you are doing bpos for me.

This is a forum for RE discussion correct or incorrect?
What qualifies me to make as you stated "all these statements" are your responses to who you are, the manner in which you think(YOUR METHODOLOGY) and what you do. I did not pull this out of the sky. You said it, I didn't.

Why are you so very defensive? You can adjust your values as much as you feel, feel the need to and/or as requested to, that's your choice. That is a reflection on your ability to make a decision based on your RE experience and knowledge pertaining to your particular market.

I had no intention of ruffling your feathers.


Are these people with a local firm in my area? Are they with an AM company, financial institution or what? Never heard of them. I do know a lot of people but I would need a last name to confirm.

What do they have to do with this topic? Makes me wonder???????

I don't think anyone is saying they just change the comps or value, no question. On a case by case basis, we look back at what we did, consider what our client is telling us and then make a decision. Sometimes we stand firmly, other times we may have a different take on our work the second time around.

I don't think any agent who is valuing 1200+ properties a year can say that they didn't make any mistakes or reach a hasty conclusion once or twice. Anyone who is self-aware and constantly tries to better themselves will readily admit to mistakes or concede that they may not have the best answer to every question.

That makes sense then... the way it was presented was that if a bank or AM asks for the value to be changed then it is changed no questions asked.

Yes, my opinions are derived from comps. Comparable listings represent a RANGE of list prices, and sales represent a RANGE of sale prices. I can pick from the high end, the low end, the middle. I've done BPO's in areas rich enough in comparables to select the same floorplan, same condition, same amenities and guess what? There is STILL a RANGE of values for them.

If you really want to work yourself up, think about where those list prices and sale prices come from. They are nothing more than other people's opinions as well. How many agents have represented a buyer and NEGOTIATED within a range of values to purchase a house. You're automatically incorporating other people's bias into your opinion. If you use average, median, high, low of any number (psf, sale price, list price, etc) you are using a RANGE on which to base your numbers.

Nobody posting in this thread has indicated they would "just say yes" and change their number. But welcome to the shades of gray folks, there is a range within which you can move and the change is NOT statistically significant.

And I can assure you that my opinion on this does not reflect a lack of knowledge about this industry, Conroe. It does however incorporate a broader base of knowlege regarding statistics AND the uncertainties that are inherent in descriptive decision theory.

No one is saying they are going to blindly change values. What IM saying is that if a company calls me with legit concerns I will look it over, if I feel like my values could be slightly off I will adjust my range. No problem. But like I said, this has never happened to me so I'm assuming I must be pretty dang accurate. But obviously if 1 of 3 BPO's is way off and that 1 BPO is mine, I don't have a problem with rethinking it and changing it. I make mistakes too, I'm only human. And if an appraiser thinks my range of values are waaay off then we have a big problem. If an appraiser offers comps that are suitable and the value is different than mine, I really don't have a problem changing them. Provided I agree.
There is only one time I had someone question my values. And that was EML. They sent me appraisers comps....all but one was fictitious. In that instance I did stand firm and mine was accepted as is.
Other than that...never had this problem but if I did and my values were off, I wouldn't have problem changing them. At all.

Am I the only person who read the ENTIRE email?
The email says either:
A. Lower the value
~OR~
B. Explain why you won't.

And again, I don't have a problem with doing A or B as long as it's justified.

Val...so you're saying if your company calls with a QC issue and you ask me to do one of those two things you would be perfectly happy with a big fat NO?

My answer to you or any company that calls with these issues is NO PROBLEM.

Believe it or NOT you don't have ALL the answers. And sometimes you could make a mistake. Shocking, I know. But really, it DOES happen.
And WHY would you have a problem if a company calls and asks you to either change your values or explain why not?

And if the value they'd like to see is within your range, why would you not change it? I fail to see what the big deal is.

Either A or B is a fine answer. All I was saying is that this is your opinion of value & I agree mistakes do happen. An explanation of your value is perfectly fine. There are MANY companies out there that order bpos, know what value they want & will not accept a bpo unless it is within a percentage...even with an explanation. This is not right. AVM does not want agents that do not offer an explanation & just chnage the value to get paid is all I was saying.... I was not picking on anyone in particular..Sorry if you took it that way.

LOL...it's okay. I didn't think YOU were attacking me at all.
The 'tone' of my response was not directed at you. I was just asking you a question, discussing even, with you.
We won't talk about the 'tone' toward Lucy. That's a whole 'nuther ballgame there.

Oooooh....I see why you thought that. I should have split my response into 'A' and 'B' sections. A was meant for Lucy. B was meant for you. Does that make sense?

I said I would not change my values. I never said that I would not explain my decision. Naturally, when I submit my orders, I always provide a subject pricing strategy even when not asked to explain. Don't you?

I never had this happen to me based on documentation of my pricing strategy and all comps that definitely support my value.

I did learn something from Asset V & M a long time ago, "the client does not want an appriased value, the client want the true market value of the subject". These are different you know? What about current local market conditions, supply and demand, inventory/new/never lived in, to be built/under construction, re-sale, reo/foreclosure, # of active competing/similar properties etc...or are you one of the RE agents that doesn't consider all aspects of the subject in order to reflect a true market value?

Yes, the current appraised value must be considered in such valuations but it is not the leading contributing factor. This is why when I look in my current MLS, I see properties that have been on the market for over 1 year due to the fact that they over-priced, they have astronomical DOM and once archive searched, I find the original LP and all price changes thereafter and also find that the same identical property on the same street, built by the same builder sold within 90 DOM with a realistic(market condition/market value)LP.

Each mentioned above and other aspects must be considered and utilized when documenting the true market value which is completely different from an appraised value.

Are you getting orders that request an appraised value?
If this is your case, there is no reason for a BPO other than to verify if occupied(if you can) and to obtain photos to support the current condition of the subject exterior(if indeed the property is still there).

I never have been asked for an appraised value. The AM company can utilize the www in any Country to obtain this information by simply going to the subject's County Appraisal web site.

I do know what I am doing in RE.

Blah blah blah. Yadda yadda yadda. Deja Vu....

Thank you for your response unfortunately, you evaded all questions and all answers. Very convenient.

Sounds like a GWB routine to me...

I have never found any Tax Appraised Value that matches market or Appraisal Value. Tax Appraised Value and Appraisal Values are totally different things. If lenders used Tax Appraised Values to make lending decisions, none of my brokerages contracts would ever make it through underwriting.

I never said anything about 'matching' any pricing. I don't understand where you got this information from. Please show me? You mis-understood.

No, I didn't.

Prove it. Show me.

It's like...4 posts up. You wrote it, not her.

Exactly/precisely what did I type? Show me in it's entirety, not this cut & paste what you want & leave the rest out routine that you love so well. You can't because it doesn't exist and you simply made a false statement.

Whatever man.

Always happy to help, Conroe!

So what part of that didn't you understand? Show me in detail exactly what you stated that I typed regarding matching anything.

It's not there and can't be there because it doesn't exist.

Let me help:


To summarize:
I've never been asked an appraised value. Any AM can get this simply by going to the auditors site. I am an expert.


v. matched, match·ing, match·es

v. tr.

1.
1. To be exactly like; correspond exactly.
2. To be like with respect to specified qualities.



You're welcome.

I am going to end this communication with you because as I stated before and what you, yourself have provided that does not accommodate/support your false statement you made and are continuously insisting on making.

What does what you cut & paste in your last message have to do with matching anything? MATCHING??? ***matching****?????

Do you see the word matching or match for that matter?

No, because it is not there and never was there.

I can't put it in more plain simplistic english for you. Madame, you made a false statement and you are wrong.

So Beachbum...how did it work out?

Real Estate Language 101:

Appraisal Value - determined by a licensed appraiser by physically inspecting the property and reviewing market data

Appraised Value - determined by a county employee, generally from behind a desk and often increasing at predetermined times by predetermined multipliers. This does not derive itself in any way from market data or "match" to paraphrase.

AM Company Appraisal Value Request - refers to the Value as determined by an appraiser using market data, NOT to the value given on a county web site.

Capisci? Probably not.

Improper response and evading the proper/correct answer. I know that you don't really want to incriminate yourself however, it is very unfortunate that this has already occurred.

OMGAWD TB INCRIMINATED HERSELF! Someone quick! Call the FBI! Or worse...a lawyer! She disagreed on the internet, and now thanks to her incriminating fingers, prison is in her future.

And not a proper/correct response from you either. Again. Evading the correct & proper answer. Please stop this ongoing nonsense and take this time and sign up with usres since you love doing free bpo's.

Thank God you have come along to set us all straight. Prior to your arrival we were just lost sheep not knowing how to do anything correctly. But making a ridiculously good living doing it and having long relationships with many clients and nary a lawsuit or ethics violation to our name. But now that I somehow managed "incriminate" myself, what ever will I do....

I'll tell you what you should do, you should MAKE HASTE and go sign up with Usres. Because goodness knows before Lucy came along we've never heard of such a company. Woe is us.

And my last listing sure didn't come from them (actually it did).

Well thank god you was smart enuff to turn on that there compuuter.

Isn't that really just your FEELING? Could you please stick to what is FACT?

Crap. Sue me.

Tsk...tsk...incriminating yourself AGAIN? You never learn.

See what happens when I don't check the boards for a day or two? I miss out on a whole discussion.

I stand by my original comment that if a company asked me to look at/change my value and it was a small change that still fit into the range of the subject's value, I would do it. I have been doing BPOs for several years, but I don't feel like I can always pinpoint the value of a property to the exact dollar. If I say it's value is X, it is possible that it will sell for a little more or a little less.

I have had several QC emails from different companies about my value not matching a "previous appraisal/BPO" and for those, I don't usually do anything. If I'm off that much from a previous report, either the report is old (in which case it means nothing to me) or one of us is wrong. As long as I used the best comps I could find, I stand by my values.

I completely agree with you OHAgent. I don't see what the big deal is.

I need some advice from the group.

I get this email over my cell phone from my favorite company stating "client dispute". I was on the road taking pictures (100 mile day) for some current orders. As I didn't have time to read the email I was going crazy trying to think of which order could have a problem. My last 4 orders had comps that I had to go to the moon for. So, I'm thinking it had to be one of those......wrong.......It was an order from about 3 weeks ago. When I finally read the email I thought they were disputing my repair costs. I reviewed the file and the numbers were good......told the company those numbers were good and I stand behind them. It wound up 2 supervisors and one QC person got involved before they actually spelled it out for me. Their client thought my rating of the property was too high. They wanted me to change the rating to fair. Value of the property was $270k......repairs were $5,500. It's always been my understanding that the 15% rule applied. If the repair costs exceed 15% of the value of the property then it is to be rated in "fair condition". With other companies I've had QC kick back the report if I rated one fair and the repair costs didn't hit the 15% mark.

Most interiors I do plus the REO's that I show to buyers need work........80% to 85% of them for sure need over $5k in repairs. The class I had with FARVV this year plus one class that I paid for both stated 15% in repairs before it can be rated "fair". I was told by this company none of their clients use the 15% rule......that if costs exceed $500 it's to be rated "fair"........somehow that doesn't make much sense.
Do I now rate all REO comps as "fair" as most need work?

The question to the group is this....WHEN DO YOU RATE A PROPERTY FAIR AND DO YOU USE A PERCENTAGE OF REPAIR COSTS TO ARRIVE AT THAT?

Well, isn't FARVV special? I say this only because while I attempted to take their various classes I could never log in. Since I've now completed more BPOS for them and am on auto-assign and my ratings are exceptionally high with them I feel competent to point out this discrepancy. When you provide any repair value over $1,000 on their BPO form, regardless of client, they make you downgrade the condition to fair or poor *before* it ever hits QC.

CC now has a major new client who considers trash out costs (under health and safety repairs which are separate from actual repair costs) to be COSMETIC. WFT? I only know this because I had a clarification last week regarding my repaired values (I erroneously thought trash-out costs and fumigation of the property were a safety hazard - they didn't argue that point) because in my head I lumped the 2 together (health/safety and repair) as one total cost estimate. No the form didn't call for it and I've never seen the breakdown done that way, but what would I know? Since when did trash-out become a cosmetic issue???? I know about As-is but come on now....

Personally I think 15% is way too high, I'd rethink that if I were you. By that I'd mean I'd give up on using a certain % as a guideline. As to coming back to haunt you 3 weeks later, well, bite me. It passed QC once, why didn't they call you on it then? If they don't know what the client wants, how are we?

CanDo

FARVV wasn't the company....not that's important. CC has kicked back when I rate fair and repair costs aren't close to that factor. SS has worked out well......each of their clients have different guide lines and you can print those out from their order. How do you decide at what is considerd fair versus good? I've done tons of reports and this was something new for me....especially after passing QC

If a property needs more than just a minor repair, for me it is only fair. It really doesn't matter how expensive the house is. I'd say anything over $1-$2k would make it only fair condition for me, but I am willing to be flexible with that. Using your numbers, a $200k house would need $30k in repairs before being downgraded to fair. In my opinion, that is way too high.

Jim, my point wasn't to bash FARVV, it wasn't. I was pointing out from the information contained in your post, that even if you are given a standard (in this case 15%) by a particular company it seems arbitrary (as in FARVVs case, which was my point).

I understand what you're saying. $5,000 to $6,000 in minimal costs for minor repairs seems like it shouldn't downgrade the Subject to fair or poor condition. $5,000 to $6,000 for repairs to a newer property worth $200,000 doesn't seem like much, those same repairs on an older property worth $60,000 is enormous.

Like I said, I'm still scratching my head regarding trash-out costs being considered cosmetic. Especially in light of a insect infestation. Oh well! Next!

Cando

I didn't take your previous post as a bashing of FARVV. In most posts on this forum I find them informative, some opinionated, some as actual experiences, etc. It all boils down to being an excellent information site. And, I have my favorites....some with their witty remarks, some with real in depth information, and some with a combination of both. If I'm having a bad day this is where I come for my PICK ME UP. Whether I need a good laugh or just some good old fashioned information, it's easy to find here. I always come away feeling better...hope that makes sense.

Back to the topic.......rating good versus fair....It appears I'm going to have to make some mental adjustments. I've found different companies have different rating systems......I have one that rates at poor, fair, average, good, excellent. If they would all throw the term average into the mix my problem would go away.

I can relate to your "trash out issue". When I do an interior I average 60 to 75 pictures. I attempt to show the A/M what I'm actually seeing and feeling. Have you ever wondered if the A/M's have any real estate experience or did they just come from the mortgage field?. Trash out and weed abatement is a minimum.......I can't begin to tell you how many times I couldn't get my buyers to look past the front room due to the trash situation. They would just turn around and go back out the front door. As an REO selling agent they would make my job so much easier if they would just do some of the basics recommended in BPO, and probably sell at a higher price.

I'm starting to rant, again.....any other advice from the group would be appreciated,

I still have yet to see the appraisal or the comps that the appraiser used. I don't mind adjusting my value a little bit, but I would like to see what the appraiser's comps were first. I have seen other appraisals and bpo's in the past when asked to do a second or third, and they were way off base. So I hesitate in changing my values until I see what other comps were used.

Photos:
Yesterday I went to take my pictures for a BPO, it was a condo, so I was gonna take them for the building... Suddenly a guy came out with an attitud and told me that it was "forbidden" take pictures to a private property. I explained to him what was I doing and even told him that "if it were a listing? You have to take pictures.. But the guy threatened me to call police.
Are we doing something illegal?

You can take whatever pictures you need for a drive by BPO as long as you do it from the public highway. If you tresspass, for example to get a better view, then you could be in trouble. Let him call the police, they will likely tell him his limits.

THANKS!