This happens to my firm quite frequently. I save the form with the mill's documented characteristics and verify this information in my county tax records and/or in mls or both.

If the mill's characteristics conflict with county tax records, I delete the mill's documented information and I document the order with information which is deemed most accurate (county records). I always document the notes stating that the order already had the subject property characteristics documented & this information that was provided by XYZ Company conflicts with what is recorded in county records and that I utilized what is recorded in county records. I email my supporting document(county tax record) to the mill/requestor & if the form/order has capabilities, I upload the document into the order as well.

I have had XYZ Company qc me/email me with demands to utilize their information or I would not be paid. My response to them: Forward legal documentation that support your characteristics. The order is approved, closed and I do get paid. It is not about who's correct & who is incorrect, it is about the facts and legal supporting documents. Not one time has a mill forwarded any type of supporting document in this situation. And yes, I have heard it all before. 'our client has supplied us with a recent appraisal'.....If this is factual, email it to me!! The End. I still get work from these companies. Some work I take if it is convenient for me and others, I don't entertain.

Many, many times, previous work done by either agents or appraisers has been wrong according to public records. I will always either upload or email (even if I have to do it several times) the public records. I have had "appraisers" include a horsebarn or stable in the GLA, or a utility building or a detached garage/workshop. The assessor usually has the correct information - breakdown of the structures. I document in my comments or addendums, too.

So many times, I guess, banks have loaned on this bogus information. At some point, it has to be stopped, and the accurate property information has to be given. I reckon a lot of these bad "appraisals" were done by folks who never saw the property.

I don't know if my values/comps are ever changed. I don't look because I do print out a copy of all my reports when submitting and keep them in the order folder.

I doubt E & Os ever come into play as they only cover transactions, not an opinion. One cannot get E & Os for opinions, only.

Roxie, We provide an appraisal for EVERY order when the banks ask us to have an agent correct a bpo & some times yes an appraisal is wrong. I found that in some incidences it is either wrong or old info. Tax records are not always correct either but in any case we provide legal documentation if we ask an agent to look at their bpo again. I agree with Due.... this is why we ask that agents DO NOT pay companies to take their pics. You cannot properly value a property without seeing it in its entirety.

You have never provided an appraisal for my review when you solicit orders to my firm.

Do you only send them to the broker when there is something in question/something that conflicts with the completed order?

Do you send the appraisal to the broker at the time of the solicitation?

I have never had an issue with AVM at all.

If there were ever a problem with county records versus an appraisal, I utilized county records. If an appraisal is in fact current & factual, it then must/should be filed with the county tax office for legal recording.

Often times, they are not filed because in-turn, this will often increase the value of the property causing a dominoe affect on costs such as all taxes associated, insurance & even HOA fees.

If a mill can't & doesn't provide my firm with documentation of what they are stating, I notify them in writing that my findings are firm and that they have a copy of a legally recorded document that I submitted and that my request for their supporting document was not honored.

We only send them out when the bank questions them. Are you kidding I could not send out 15,000 appraisals a month when we solicit orders. If an agent needs one we do try to obtain it for them though. I did not say in my previous message that I send them out w/ every order... it says we send it out when the bank is questioning the completed bpo. I have no idea who you are so I cannot tell you if we have ever had issues with your bpos but I believe you when you say you haven't

Thanks DueDiligence: What a well thought out response ! And legible too. I was just reminded of a Transaction I had in Fall of 2007 when I was waiting for an Appraisal to be conducted BEFORE I involved the Attorneys. I thought because it was a vacant house and ONLY I had the key, I would be getting a call from an Appraiser to make an appointment and let him/her in. I was wrong.

Instead, surprisingly, I got a call from the Buyer telling me the Appraisal WAS ALREADY DONE. I checked with the Lender (BOA) and after a few visits to their Voice Mail, I was told that BOA doesn't bother with HUMAN Appraisals anymore, like on loans that are less than $417,000. Anything less than a so-called JUMBO. It was fun (and annoying) to find out that my dinky little $345,000 Sale was too trifling to bother real people with. They just use an AVM (Automated Vauluation Method) using Assessors information (costing a mere $35.00).

I had been concerned that the property wouldn't appraise for the required "magic number" so I was pleasantly surprised.

In this case, the Assessors Information held the Subject up as being worth maybe $120,000 more than the Current Market Value PLUS it only had a only partial basement, no Garage and one bath less in reality than on the Assessor's Records. The Assessors haven't made a physical inspection of the premises in 17 years ! So now the Buyer is dismayed that what he thought was such a great deal ISN'T.

I recently told him to go to our annual "Grievance Day" to try for a lower Assessment in the future; but forget about that Home Equity Loan ! So much for being expeditious and FRUGAL.

Could this be in anyway related to our Mortgage Meltdown, along with all those Low Doc/No Doc Loans to people with a Pulse ? Just doin' my job.

Hmm.. at the Colorado conference Phil B said that they will change the value if the one you gave does not make sense with the comps you gave.. I thought it was a crazy thing to say, but he said it. My whold table was like... wtf?

I've actually had AVM change my values before. I save all completed valuations and MLS comps as a PDF in case I ever need to refer back to it at some point. I had a QC request and noticed my values had been changed from my original. Not common but it has happened. This was last year, so procedures may now be in place to prevent this. After I brought the changes to their attention and modified the values back to my original opinion, they stopped sending me future orders. I really liked working for AVM but I was concerned about the alteration of my opinion of value.

I've had a many year relationship with AVM and can't ever remember a value being changed, although I have had QC calls when they had a prior appraisal.
Usually the prior appraisal was some pie in the sky number that was used to meet a contract sales price a long time ago or with size and room count different from the available records, but I have seen one or two that were clearly inflated above belief.

Can you please send me the address of the bpo you are referring to? I want to look into it because we DO NOT change agent values.

The may change it in writing on a file after looking at list & sold comps but they CANNOT actually change what you have typed on a bpo. The process is called "CMV"ing a bpo. They look at all the comps & more than likley other bpos that have been done to determine a price...as said before your value is just an OPINION..but they DO NOT & CANNOT change your actual price on our bpo form.

I just confirmed this with Phil & here is his response to answer your questions & clear your minds..it pretty much confirms my earlier response:

Val> You are not Actually/Physically changing the value on our bpo reports right? I am just trying to set the record straight to some agents.

Phil>No, what we are doing is taking their BPO and adjusting it based on looking at a second opinion BPO and/or an appraisal and using that new value as our Cal REO CMV when we put a market plan together for our client. We do not physically change their value


PLEASE remeber when you are doing bpos that this is YOUR personal OPINION of value. Our clients take all considerations in account when determing what they think the current Market Value should be. A bpo is a just a small piece of the reo pie...so to speak

Does AVM expect agents to include comparables not within the MLS system? Say on realquest only? or on tax records only? my understanding is that these can not be verified as arms length transactions and much of the other data ie original list price; time on market etc is unavailable; making them uunacceptable comps.
Thanks

We want MlS comps...UNLESS it is rural & you have to resort to other places to even get a comp.

Some companies will do it.