Some of the day to day frustrations of an occasionally disgruntled new home sales guy. Don't get me wrong, I love my career path, but here are the pitfalls as I see them. A little about me? I'm young and motivated, I've been selling real estate since I was 19 years old, I work for one of the largest builders in the nation. I've been with the company for just about 2 years now, and I love working with the team I work with. It's an honor and a privledge to see myself among these people every week at our meeting.

That being said, let's begin the rant:

1) Since when did we start buying homes based simply on incentives? I can't count how many times I've had someone walk in my door (or even open the door and stick their head in) and ask me right away what my incentives are. It's borderline despicable, and it's a total insult to me, my company, the homes I represent, and ultimately themselves. Seriously, would you rather pay $2000/mo. for a home you dislike, or $2250/mo. for a home that you love? Incentives are insignificant if the home doesn't fit your wants/needs. Please, come in, look at the houses, tell me which one you like, and THEN open up the dialogue about what I can do for you. Guaranteed way to get me to go that little extra mile for you.

2) Please refain from taking every little bit of paper that I can offer you if you aren't considering buying a house at this time. These marketing materials are very expensive and cost my company hundreds of thousands of dollars each year...in this market alone. We spend tens of thousands of dollars putting brochures, price sheets, mortgage company info, business cards, home warranty info, and many other things into the hands of people who aren't going to buy a home at all...let alone with my builder. That same money could be used to pay someone's salary and keep food in their child's mouth. If you do come and look at the models and you aren't buying anything...pass the information on to a friend who is. Please don't waste our marketing money like that.

3) Realtors, please take this advice as it will help you be ultimately more successful in selling new homes to your clients. This is the easiest money you can make...I know this for sure because I was in general real estate and I know the difference between selling in resale and representing a buyer in a new home deal.

A. We want to make money too. Understand that from the get go. We will do everything in our power to try and create a paycheck for ourselves...which ultimately creates one for you as well.

B. Introduce your clients and leave it up to us. We are 100% qualified to sell these homes...just as much as you are. In fact, we are experts on our community (at least we should be :o). Feel free to ask as many questions as you would like, we encourage that, but please allow us to answer them. If your client asks a question, again, allow US to answer them. Your job turned less into a person with critical knowledge and more into a person who is reaffirming your clients that they are looking at the right product. You brought them there, didn't you? There is a reason for that...that reason is that you are their "trusted advisor". Usually unless you give them a thumbs up, they won't sign the dotted line.

C. Please, for God's sake, keep your personal taste out of the equation. You don't have to like the homes we sell. The floorplan may not be something you particularly like. The meaning of that is absolutely nothing. If your clients fall in love with a house, and you say that it doesn't work so well, they will believe you. Remember what I said about being a "trusted advisor"? It's more powerful than some of you think it is. If I see one more Realtor talk a buyer out of a house that they like well enough to consider, I'm going to vomit all over their shoes.

D. Most importantly, I am going to ask for the sale. You bet I am. I wouldn't be doing myself, you, or your buyer a service if I didn't. Now, when I do, please don't jump in on their behalf. Let them answer this question...it's their decision to make...not yours. I've been told "no" before, I will be told "no" again. I'm a professional, I can handle rejection in the sales process, I am fully equipped to respond positively to it...and also to overcome it. If they really don't want the home, I'm not going to heckle them, I do know when to quit and move on to the next tire-kicker.

4) This is an observation I made when my company was negotiable with our prices. Have you ever noticed that even the biggest, toughest, roughest bad-boy was scared to death of the word "negotiation"? Funny how everyone feels like they are this ultra-negotiator, but when the opportunity arises for them to try and pull one over on the stupid new home sales guy...they fold like flan in a cupboard. Everyone thinks that they are a master negotiator. I have news for you guys...I actually am. Don't be intimidated, I'm not going to pull one over on you, I'm genuinely not. However, I am going negotiate to a point where I can make you...AND my company happy.

5) This is crucial. A lot of markets are slipping out there...this is not private information. However, don't think that you are doing my company (or, for you general agents out there, your sellers) a favor by coming in and asking me to write up an offer at 15%-20% below my list price. Sure, some builders are negotiating right now, but mine is not. Do your research on my area and you will find that these homes that I have are below market price. These homes have a value attached to them TODAY. Why should my seller feel an obligation to give you a home at what may be (but likely won't) become tomorrow's price? The way I see it, you are jumping into the market prematurely and you should roll the dice and see what things are like in 6, 12, or 18 months. Understand that I am giving you a great deal...and you don't even have to chop off my arms with the offer to get it. I'm GIVING it to you.

I hate to start off on this forum with such harsh words, but I feel like there is this very large inequality in the world, and I want to try and help be the equalizer.

Let's discuss...shall we?

You seem to have made the assumption that the buyers will only like your home and the buyers agent will only get paid if they buy, your home.

If I am representing a client, who I want to remain a client, for years to come, I am not going to sit at your sales desk and just let you do all the talking. My job is to help my clients weigh the various homebuilders offerings to the competion and recommend things they may not have thought of for now and in a resale situation down the road.

I think agents who claim they are "negotiatiors" is basically the same as agents with EPRO behind their name, BASICALLY MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

Welllll, of course your clients are only going to like my home. If they like anything else, then I won't get paid. haha

I encourage you to take your buyers to my competition builders. In fact, I encourage everyone who walks through my door to walk through theirs as well. I want everyone to be educated so that if and when they decide to pick up one of our houses, they know that they have made the right choice. Nothing worse than floor-popping someone who has seen about half of what is available, only to have them walk next door, then come back to me to cancel and buy from them.

Never once did I tell you to let me to all of the talking...just most of it. Again, I am as qualified as you are, and we are on the same team. Ultimately, if I win, we both win. It is also my duty to make your life easy. I love nothing more than to surprise a Realtor with the ease of a transaction...it give me goosebumps to hear from an agent and tell them, "Yes, everything is great. Walkthrough is set for (such and such time) docs are going to be to title in the next few days. Let me know if there is anything more you need from me to make sure your file is complete as well." It seriously makes me tingle all over.

Furthermore, I want to make a happy client out of your people as well. I firmly believe in referral business...just like you...and FROM you as well. I want a great deal to occur so that you feel confident and energized about bringing me your next prospect so we can make even more money together.

Think what you want about agents and their claims. I know I'm new here, but I never make a statement about myself that I can't back up. I love to negotiate and I'm good at it.

YOUR STATEMENT: B. Introduce your clients and leave it up to us. We are 100% qualified to sell these homes...just as much as you are. In fact, we are experts on our community (at least we should be :o). Feel free to ask as many questions as you would like, we encourage that, but please allow us to answer them. If your client asks a question, again, allow US to answer them. Your job turned less into a person with critical knowledge and more into a person who is reaffirming your clients that they are looking at the right product. You brought them there, didn't you? There is a reason for that...that reason is that you are their "trusted advisor". Usually unless you give them a thumbs up, they won't sign the dotted line

Take a HIKE!

Zero interst in new home sales, firm believer in restoration or repair if appropriate; or if it is well kept and had today's features properly installed to not damage the original attributes then so much the better!

Just remember this: I represent my client, you represent your client. My job is not to make your job easy, nor is your job to make my job easy. Our job is to negotiate and handle the transaction.

Your freebies- I understand they are expensive. Offer me soething free, I take them, and as many as I can. I will even go as far as asking for more.

My opinion- I will tell my clients "this house is not for you". I know what my buyers are looking for, and if it don't fit, I voice my opinion. If it kills a deal, we move on to the next. And to just dump a client to a seller? Hell no.

Don't like the offer we present? Reject or counter it. I could care less if your client is insulted by it. You have 2 options on what to do with it. I suggest you counter, thats your call though.

To be as blunt as you are in your post (and Welcome!), I could care less about your client. I represent and protect my client. I work for my client. I get paid when my client is satisfied and closed a deal. I get referals from my clients. Just a perspective from a buyers agent.

Yeah...teamwork...horrific idea.

Let me just go ahead and say that this post wasn't made in such a way to offend anyone. If you don't like it, don't respond to it.

All I am doing is offering up the tried and tested information that I have gained as both a new home sales agent, and also a general agent.

I'm always just here to help. I may come off as a little smug sometimes, but we all play ball for the same team. Again, I want you to get paid just as much as I want me to get paid...which is a LOT.

Understood. New homes aren't for everyone. I believe in sweat equity just as much as the next guy.

However, some people just prefer to have the house done and pretty when they move in. That's where we come in.

B. Introduce your clients and leave it up to us.

YES, THIS IS TEAMWORK.... LET'S JUST MAKE SURE WE DON'T MENTION ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY NEGATIVE ABOUT OUR NEW HOMES THAT ARE 5 FEET AWAY FROM THE NEXT ONE ON ALL SIDES....

A-Train - I think your post was really informational. Lots of new agents want to know how they're supposed to work with builders and it's nice to hear from the other side.

So, I, for one, thank you for your post and welcome you to AOL!

Thanks for your reply.

I'm going to go ahead and disagree in a few ways. My job isn't necessarily to make yours easier...however, I take it upon myself to do so. Negotiation is a natural part of the process, but it isn't a fight on the other hand. I can negotiate in a very amicable manner, in fact, I encourage that. There is no reason we can't make everyone happy.

My "freebies" are intended for those with a real intention of buying a house. Regardless of the fact if it's my house or not...I just want to be giving those out to those that I have a crack at. This is more directed at non-represented buyers who are just out killing an afternoon and aren't out seriously hunting for a house. I'm assuming you wouldn't put someone like that in your car.

If the house isn't for your clients, then it isn't for them. Which begs the question, "why did you bring them in the first place?" Understood, sometimes the houses just don't work...but given the amount of information is available about these homes in the internet, and the fact that you "know what your clients are looking for" already...you should have known that they wouldn't work. Again, you are there for a reason, and that reason is that there is a chance that the home may be right. Furthermore, I'm not asking you to "dump your client off to the seller". If you were to do that, I'd bring in my higher ups and let them put them in their car and drive them to each of our projects until we put them in a home.

Quite honestly, if I don't like an offer you present, I won't even take the time to put it on paper in any capacity. I know what my seller wants, I know what he doesn't want. I don't need to be told by you to counter it, I will instinctually do what it takes to bring something interesting for both parties to the table.

I expect you to represent and "protect" your client. In the same respect, I'm not out to screw your client over...not in the slightest. I also ask for referrals from your clients...and from you as well. I've said it already, but I would love for you to bring me in those referrals that you get from your clients so that we can team up and make more money together!

See, now we are just jumping to conclusions.

In fact, I sell 3000+ sq. ft. one story homes on 18,000+ sq. ft. lots.

However, please bring to my attention an objection that you have about my houses. I am fully prepared to overcome it and hopefully move on to the next concern.

It seems to me, Mr. JoeBroker, that you are here just to argue with me for whatever reason. I'm new around here, but I somehow don't think that this is the mood of this board...nor is it the mood of this thread. If you have a serious comment that you'd like to make, I'd be glad to respond and help you understand. If you want to further troll my threads, I can point you in the direction of other boards in which that is more encouraged.

Thanks for the nice welcome and bumping my thread though.

Thanks for your kind words!

I get the impression that I'm starting off on the wrong foot here, but I'd love to be your conduit for information about the "dark side" of real estate sales. LOL

I'd love to answer any questions anyone has. Feel free to ask away!

A-Train - there's a chapter in my book about selling new construction - I'd love your take on it if you have time - if so, PM me with your email address.

Absolutely, I'd love to. PM sent.

A-Train it seems like YOU are frustrated with the market. It's a BUYERS market right now. No more buyers LINING up like 2 years ago to buy new construction in phase 0 to 1 so by stage 4 there investment would have appreciated like crazy.

The reality is I am a buyer you don't give me what I want I simply go down the street and get it-plenty o finventory to choose from right now:)

I think you are living in the past my friend. Back in the days of 100 percent financing and 580 credit scores buyers were HAPPY to just get in the market. With the new tighter credit guidelines mostly only people will real good credit 700 plus remain. Fewer buyers in the market means they call the shots.

We have one of the fastest growing counties in the nation Cherokee,Ga and builders are still having a hard time moving the inventory because they are competing with homes only 2 to 3 years old that are pre-foreclosures and reo's for 75 to 80 cents on the dollar. So while buyers like new in this market I don't se emost paying a premium for it. Ultimately your builder will 1.get there price 2.reduce to buyer demands 3.stay stubborn and hold the line while the bank breathes down there neck to foreclose on them


Most builders do not make money until the tail end of the project on there pro-forma so if they sell off half of there inventory they are in big trouble.

There are banks that funded residential development projects that are taking huge hits right now as they foreclose on builders and have to unload cheap.

Good luck to you

A-Train,

I think REODayton hit the nail on the head with his reply below. I don't think this thread was a great post for introduction. You say that you aren't trying to offend anyone, yet it sounds like you are just slamming and insulting our intelligence as agents. We don't work for the same team. You keep saying that, but that isn't true. I work for my client as you work for yours.

I can understand your anger towards the agent that may walk into your sales office every once in a blue moon that decides to just start slamming the builder left and right for no reason. The majority of agents are just looking out for their clients though. I will not just bring in a quality buyer, sit down, then just let you do all the talking. My opinion will definitely be involved. That is what I am hired for, my professional advice (AKA my opinion). If your homes aren't for my buyer, then of course I will let them know that's what I think.

About your rant on people taking your marketing supplies, deal with it! It is just part of this business. When you got into this business, I am sure you knew that there are risks also. Some of these risks might be tire-kickers wasting your time, taking your supplies, bringing their muddy shoes in your model homes, etc. There are risks for us agents also, yet we don't complain over the small things. I risk my time everyday with people that may change their mind and not purchase a home, risk of wasting my (expensive) gas, etc.

I am sure we could all start a rant about new homes sales agents and their builders. Don't get me started! For instance, if we have a buyer that stops by your sales office jut to "check out" your models, allow us to come back with them if they decide to purchase one! But NOOOOOOOOO, builders won't pay a commission if a buyer has previously been in the sales office! THAT IS THE DUMBEST MOST UNFAIR RULE EVER! Many buyers are unaware that they can't bring their agent back to represent them. So what do the builders do? Take advantage of this buyer and not allow them to be represented by a professional!!! That is just plain cruel.

Builders are such in a bind right now, it is unbelievable! Building permits have been pulled on so many builders. Are you ranting because you are mad that business has been slow? Are you trying to put the blame on someone else? If you can't close the deal with a buyer AND their agent, then that is nobody else's fault. That's part of the job.

A-Train, why don't you enlighten us on which builder you work for and which home site you are selling at? I will be glad to keep your home site in mind for any clients I may have for your homes. I would be interested in knowing where your models are located with the 18,000 square foot lots and 3000+sf homes. I may have clients for that criteria.

Just understand that you shouldn't post your first thread complaining like this. It is not a good way to build relationships with people.

Funny that you brought up all of the things that I didn't. Anyhow, I am glad to respond and help you understand.

Yes, I am frustrated with the market...you bet. However, these are the observations of my 5 years in this business...not the last few months. These have been my gripes for years.

Most agents get so jaded about what it's like to be a buyer. People fall in love with homes...it's easy to do. When that happens, people will buy the house that they fall in love with, and probably pay a premium for it.

You don't need to remind me of the credit crunch...we are all professionals here and I fully understand the requirements for someone to buy a house...likely more than 90% of agents out there.

You are in one of the fastest growing counties in the USA, but I am in THE fastest growing county in the USA. I also happen to be in the foreclosure capital of the nation...in the zip code with the highest foreclosure rate per-capita. 89131...look it up. Fact of the matter is that I still sell homes to people. Again, would you rather pay $2000/mo. for the house that you don't like, or $2400/mo. for the house you do like? I know which way I would go.

My builder has more "dry powder" (money in the bank) than every other builder in the country. We aren't making as much money as we used to, but we are (worst case scenario) breaking even on our homes right now. We have already reduced prices to adjust to the market, and since we have sold over 350 homes in Las Vegas since new years. That is flat out selling houses. Again, as I said in my original post, it's an honor and privledge to sit next to my colleagues every week.

Furthermore, we are a cash builder. We don't finance this stuff. We just have the money available to build homes. We don't have a bank breathing down our necks and/or forcing us to have "fire sales" to keep the doors open. Ultimately that benefits everyone because you have nicer communities, nicer homes, happier owners, and will create far less of a tidal wave of garbage 5-10 years from now.

So you tell me. With thousands and thousands and thousands of foreclosures in the market, how is it that my company was able to sell over 70% of it's standing inventory inside of the first quarter of this year while people aren't "LINING up like 2 years ago to buy new construction"? People flat out buy the houses that they like because it's worth it for 90% of people to spend a little more to get what they want. Yes, buying a house is an investment, but you have to be happy about LIVING there as well.

Also, an FYI for your posts: http://www.wikihow.com/Use-There,-Their-and-They're

I'm aware that this wasn't a great introduction post. I'm not trying to offend anyone, and if you were offended, let me extend my apologies. We do work for the same team, I don't understand what is so hard to understand about that. Sure, I work for my seller, and you work for your buyer...but these two parties are not sworn enemies. Ultimately my client has what your client may want. If they want it, we are on the same team, if they don't want it, we aren't even playing the game.

There seems to be this unspoken level of dislike coming from general agents to new home agents...and vice versa. We envy each other for many different reasons, and it's ridiculous. I chose to be in new homes, you chose to be in general. I've done both, I know what to expect from either. Sure, your client brings you on board for your professional opinion...and in no way did I tell you to not extend it. However, don't blow up a deal because of it. In resale I sold a number of houses that I thought were ugly/inefficient/poorly designed, etc. The clients loved them, I gave them the disclosures that were necessary, I took my money, and I moved on. Mutually beneficial for me to keep my big mouth shut. This was a hard learned lesson as well.

Yes, it's insignificant that people run off with brochures and the like, but we will use today as an example. I've had probably 10 "prospects" and not one of them was genuinely looking for a home. I wish I were exaggerating. That's my client's money! Just like when you put 100 flyers into your "Take One" box on the sign at one of your listings and nobody calls you...it's a little bit of a heartbreaker. To be completely honest, I think it's a shame that it's so AMAZING outside and they are spending all day inside a model home when all I want to do is go golf. To call it jealousy on my part would be to call a spade a spade, and I admit that.

I am going to call a little bit of "shenanigans" on your claim that builders will block you from the deal if your clients beat you in there. Sure, that's how the rules are written...and I've been known to do it on rare occasion. However, 95% of the time, I (and most other new home agents) usually give you a little bit of a rashing about how you know the rules, but ultimately pay you anyway (much more than we make, mind you). To expand on this, the only times I have stopped a Realtor from being a part of a deal is when I've spent extensive time (weeks or more) following up with a client, I bring them to my desk to write up a deal, then **POOF**, there's a Realtor. This doesn't happen often, but I don't tolerate it. Sure, if your buyers come in once or twice, or even a few more times, I'll probably make sure you get a piece of the pie. Again, I believe in a co-dependant circle of networking, we are all on the same team. I think I speak for a fair amount of new home agents when I say that. We understand you can't be everywhere at once and that buyer loyalty is basically non-existant. Don't tell me that you, as a successful agent have never been put into a deal where the buyers beat you there...I'll call even further shenanigans.

I just put up a big post explaining how the builder I work for isn't in such bad shape...I'm sure your concerns in this area have been responded to. If not, please let me know and I'll do my best to explain further.

As for exposing who I work for and where, I choose not to. Simply as a matter of my own personal privacy. There is no reason that I should post such information on the internet...furthermore, I'm not about to give you the information in which you are looking for to try and poke holes through what I'm saying here. If you have clients for this criteria, you would be in my door already because we are a SMOKING deal.

It is too bad that my post has caused such controversy. It wasn't meant in such a way that it was to offend people. Again, if it did, I apologize. However, I am curious as to why everyone is so shut off by it. I made no mention that anyone is stupid, incompetent, unable to do their job, or anything of the sort. All I did was throw my $.02 out there for others to see. If you want to use it, great, I'm sure you will find it hugely successful. If you don't, then that's fine, I'm sure you are going to do great anyhow.

Did these buyers tell you that they were not looking? Or maybe they ARE looking and didn't want high pressure sales tactics while they browsed.

Completely understood. I don't want to say I'm innocent of that...because I'm not. I'm not completely that "IN YOUR FACE" salesperson, but I certainly do whatever I can to try and piece together a deal at all points.

I kind of view new home sales as 3 parts. An introduction in which I simply inform them of the property. If they like them, I move to the 2nd part which is showing them some of the actual homes whether they are completed or under construction. This is the point where somewhat of the salesman comes out, but I'm still mostly answering questions and being informational. The third part is where I gauge their interest on actually owning one of the homes. I think that's where "high pressure" begins.

You can't really bludgeon people with "HAY THAR GUISE, ARE YOU GUONNA BYE A HOUSE TODAAAAY?" right when they walk through the door. It takes a finite amount more tact than that. haha

About all I'll add is that a review of your pre-licencing coursework might be in order, A-train. Focus on the part about "fiduciary duties".

The relationship between Realtors on opposite sides of the table is multi-layered. True, we are all professionals and it's just good business to treat each other with respect, because most likely we'll cross paths again. HOWEVER, our duties in a transaction are adversarial. Period. My job is to get the most out of your client's hide as possible. Your job is to get the biggest piece of my client's bank account possible.

So no, we are not "on the same team".

You are coming at this from the position of a salesman. You might as well be selling fridges or cars; it's a product, you are paid to move it, there's more coming down the pipeline SELL SELL SELL! So, your perspective is fundamentally biased in that direction, and it shows through in your phrasing. To paraphrase, you are basically saying, "get out of the way and let me do my job, which is to sell your client a home at the highest possible price for my builder".

Anyway, you write well and I think it's great you have found this forum. You will be a great member, a great perspective to have around. I'm not slamming you... just reacting to the tone of your first post, in particular.

If I brought a client to your developement, I would let you get your spiel in, to some degree. The degree, would be to the point where my client gave me verbal or sub-verbal cues that they wanted MY professional involvement to get this damn salesman off my back! And if we did enter into a negotiation, my goal would be to extract every penny from your side. I've negotiated enough deals to know that you ain't close to the bone until the other side is howling a little, or a LOT, for that matter! (I was in commissioned sales for 11 years).

It's my JOB to make you squirm. Not to be a patsy.

My definition of a "good" agent, on the other side of a transaction, is one who returns phone calls promptly, does what they say they will do, communicates clearly, and maybe even manages to have a little fun with me in the process. Note, nowhere in there do I mention that I want or need to feel like am on the same team as them!

Looking forwards to more of your posts. You remind me of me a little. We'll have fun!

-jeff

So if my professional advice for my client is to not buy your home, I shouldn't blow up the deal for you? I am supposed to be quiet?



Deal with it. It's part of the job. Be lucky you're not paying for the supplies.



This is untrue. Most new home agents will not consider paying me or allow me to represent my buyer. Trust me, I have been in this situation a few times. One time I walked in with my buyer on their second visit and the new home agent recognized my client. He told me that there is no way I was getting paid if I chose to represent my buyer. He even went back and asked the builder while we were waiting in the lobby. He came back out with the same response. My buyer told the new home agent that they are a loyal client of mine and they will just go somewhere else. We walked out. My buyer ended up buying something else. The builder lost a sale and a buyer.

Also, we should get paid more than you make. We have more work involved than you do. Enough said.



If your builder is doing well, that's great.



God forbid that you actually advertise for yourself! Big secret! I wasn't looking to poke holes through what you're saying. I was trying to get an uderstanding of what builder and site you work for. You should be wanting to give this info out. You are complaining about tire-kickers and the such, yet you don't want to advertise yourself and your product to possibly bring in additional business. After all, you are in my area.

It is not necessarily true that I would be in your sales office already if I had buyers in that criteria. There are multiple reasons I don't choose to view new homes on occasion, including co-op, incentives, location, price range, etc. There are many resale properties right now that new homes can't even compete with.



It's all good, just learn some etiquette before posting.

This will get the frustrated A-Train going. I think of car sales people when I think of new homes sales people. One in the same. What will it take to get you to sign this contract today!! After all once that buyer walks out that sales person can't go show them something else. Just like a cars sales person. What what will car sales people say to get you to buy a car? Anything!. Same goes for new home sales people.

By the way nice start to your posting on this forum. Insult everyone. Which is almost that same on this board as saying. Hi I'm new here how do I start into doing BPOs and foreclosures?

It appears as though someone understands me afterall! Thanks for your post, Jeffo.

However, this seems to me a very large grey area. There is this small area of "fiduciary responsiblity" (which is ABSOLUTELY black and white) called "best interest of your client". The "best interest" of my client is to put people in houses at fair market value...it's quite simple. In my opinion (and this is how I looked at everything when I was in general real estate as well, FYI) a buyer's "best interest" is having someone help them get into a property that suits their needs for a fair market value. I'm not exactly sure when it changed from what I recall it being to, "I'll help you rip the seller a new one". We are not sworn enemies in battle, we are two professionals with the same goal...sell this person a house that they like for a fair value.

I'm not sure if you were going this direction with this comment, but please, don't ever reference me, or anyone else in this business in the same manner as you would a car or appliance or insurance salesman. How utterly disrespectful to yourself and those around you.

Thank you for your kind words, on the other hand. I look forward to bumping into everyone in other threads as well.

I expect an encourage you to put your professional opinion in...but not at the expense of blowing up a deal. Too many Realtors don't know where that line exists and don't let their clients get their $.02 in before dragging them out the door. It's sad and it's bad business IMO.

Honestly though, if it's your JOB to make me squirm, then two things:

1. You have your work cut out for you
2. You are in the wrong business. Consider becoming an interrogator for the FBI.

I don't squirm. I honestly have absolutely no trouble with thanking everyone for coming out, telling them that we can't meet somewhere in the middle, so we are spinning our wheels, then moving on to the next guy. I've done it time, and time, and time again. Sometimes they come back to make the deal, sometimes they come back to try again, sometimes they don't come back at all. In any case, there becomes a point in which the buyers and sellers can't have a meeting of the minds. I'll remind you that my homes are already below market value...why should my company feel like you are doing us a favor by coming in and hacking even more money off of our homes?

Your definition of a "good" agent is sadly more and more hard to find. I sympathize with you all on this. I make follow up a ritual, and I truly am as good as my word. I'm also highly charismatic and have a blast all the time while I'm at work. I LOVE my job!

Regardless, let's not forget the bottom line. YOU don't get paid until these folks move in...I don't get paid until these folks move in. There is no reason that we are adversaries here...it's senseless to me. You attract way more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

Did you even read what I wrote in that first paragraph?

I explained myself fully on the brochures thing. I am lucky that I'm not paying for the supplies...it's my one illegitimate complaint and I'm sticking to it.

SHENANIGANS! SHENANIGANS ON BOTH PARTS! You will be hard pressed to say that you do more work than we do on a new home transaction. I'm not saying you don't do any, I'm just saying that you do less for sure. However, I understand that you are putting your professional responsibility out there on every transaction that you come across. In no way am I bitter about Realtors making more money than me on the deals. You have to drive them around, put up with their screaming kids, clean up the mess in your car, show them properties, run comps, try and beat up on the stupid new home sales guy. I get it, it's not easy for you either. But in a race that starts from contract signing to close of escrow, your life should be much easier. Even in the peak of the market, most any new home sales agent wasn't a jerk about this thing. We'd look at you, scorn you a little bit, then make sure you get paid.

What your forgot to mention was all the times that you were in violation of the "rules" and wound up getting included in the deal anyway. This has happened, please don't try to be dishonest about it.

Dude, I have an entire marketing department at my disposal. I get plenty of advertising. I came here to rant and make some smug comments using the anonymity of the internet...not to make business connections. Seriously, if you have some clients that are interested in what we have to offer, then great. Honestly, it doesn't strike me as though we'd be working towards the same goal, so I'm somewhat leary of handing out my locale to just anyone. Call it paranoia if you will.

Again, I don't understand why people are so bent out of shape about it. I'm sorry I didn't sugar coat my first post for all of you...but it did get your attention. Hopefully some of it was taken with a grain of salt. If not, then that's cool too.

Disgusting.

Thanks for setting your fellow Realtors back a couple of centuries.

Slow day in a model home A-Train?

Most assuredly not as slow as yours.

[Edited for unnecessary roughness]

I know the new homes business. I have friends that work for big builders and are over multiple developments at a time.

In one breath you say your builders are fine in another you complain over a few bucks on some brochures. Who cares if they take the brochures even if they don't buy maybe they have friends who will purchase-you just never know.

The reason new home salespeople get pissed when an agent parachutes in is usually with the builder they pay 1.5 percent to the sitting agent if a buyers agent is involved but if it's there whole deal the builders pay 2.5 to 2.75 percent.

As far as English goes and correct sentence structure I don't really care.

Alot of your points of view I frankly don't agree with.

As far as fiduciary duty to the buyer purchasing at fair market value I disagree. Fair market value is subjective you could run numbers to support your position and I could run the numbers to support mine. You seem to think your development is the greatest thing since sliced bread. If your builders have CASH as you say then they would be smarter to wait for an upcycle to get a greater return when they do the buildout.

you all need to lighten up on A-Train. While I've never been a new home agent I've been around plenty and been on the forefront of those projects in my previous development career. I can completely understand where he is coming from in his post.
Welcome to the forum.

I agree (with Watermark). Lots of us have strong personalities here, but there is room for all. I think A-Train is going to bring some interesting insights to the club. Let's be good hosts and hostesses, k?

This board is for whatever I want it to be on. It's up to a moderator to ban me if they don't like what I have to say. So far, I'm on her good side, so I think I'm doing ok.

I explained my animosity toward the brochure situation. It's an legitimate complaint that I have always had, and likely always will.

Let me just say, for the record, that I have NEVER heard of a builder paying an agent more if there is no Realtor. In fact, my company for a short while paid me MORE if there was a Realtor involved...and it was brilliant. At this time I make the same amount of money whether or not you are on the deal or not. I have no personal vested interest in whether or not you get paid other than to make sure that you can stuff your face with fliet mignon...and I'm usually glad to be a part of the process.

You don't have to liek what I have to say, I'm not going to make you agree. Ironically, I haven't in any way made you respond either, but you did. I'm confused...please help me to understand.

Great, I ENCOURAGE you to bring me your numbers that support the data you have. Matter of fact, if you are able to support your side of the story enough, I'd gladly run to my boss with an offer at whatever price you feel like you can support. However, if I tell you that this resale home built 15 years ago can't support the same value as my brand new, never been lived in home...don't get bent out of shape.

My development is the greatest thing since sliced bread, I can convince lots of people of that...because food in my stomach depends on it. Now, why in the heck would my builder wait to build homes right now? Costs are lower, contractors are cutting great deals just to keep themselves busy, not to mention that numerous economists are calling for a property shortage in Vegas in 2009. Why would we build anything at all? Might as well wait until this temporary thing has run it's course and give up any and all strategic plans over the next 5 years.

Some people don't even want to find out if you're high pressure or not, they just want the info and want to be "left alone" so they'll say, no we're not interested in buying yet, when in fact they are but they want to do it their own way at their own pace.

So don't just write them off as uninterested in buying. They took the brochures and info for a reason. You have no way of really knowing unless you see them take them outside and put in the dumpster. lol

Thank you.

And thank you.

Thank you. Hopefully I can move past the part of "guest" and more into the realm of "member"

New home sales? Seriously- Is anyone really buying homes from builders anymore? Short sales and REO's line the streets at under builder pricing in my area..
the fancy financing incentives are gone...new homes are not selling
new home salesmen = unemployment checks

Once in a while I'll find the brochures left in the model somewhere, which is great. I can give it to someone else! haha

Yes, some people genuinely get skiddish around salespeople. I get it. I'm the kind of person who will very kindly dismiss a salesperson by letting them know that I'm not going to buy anything at all, and that I'd much rather see them get with someone who is more prepared to purchase something.

I do understand when someone doesn't want to be bothered. I'm not really ever guilty of bugging someone. Again, I'm trying to be more consious lately of being too much in people's faces. It takes a lot of restraint and discipline for someone like me, but I can and will do it. It's all about understanding the personality you are dealing with.

The point when I write someone off as not interested in buying is when they do what is called the "wall crawl". That's when someone comes back in from the models, put their back to the wall and shimmy out the door creating as much space between themselves and me as they can. I ask them if they have a favorite home out there, to which they will tell me something ambiguous such as "They are beautiful" or "it's hard to decide" and continue to walk. That's not a buyer. Someone more interested will have a question, ask me what is available, or open up some sort of dialogue about the homes themselves. That's when part 2 begins.

I know Florida is in big trouble as far as new homes. I correspond online with a gentleman who works for a big builder in Florida and he is hurting like crazy. I really feel for the guy.

To answer your question more specifically. In my area, yes, people are buying new homes. I put up a big post on this, but long story short, there are lots of foreclosures in my area (the community I sell is in the zip code with the highest foreclosure rate per capita of anywhere else in the entire country) but we still sell homes. What I'm finding is that people ultimately want a home that is brand new, hasn't been trashed, and that has a warranty. In fact, one of my hottest leads right now is a good tale of this.

He stuck is head in my door (didn't even walk through the doorway) and asked me "are you guys cheaper than the foreclosures out here"? To which I responded, "We are a better value than the foreclosures out here." His ears perked, I stated my case, we are off to the races.

Ok folks, I'm gonna go lock up these model homes. Before I shut off my computer for the day, I'd like to add anything else that someone wants to talk about.

Ok, I'm out of here. I'll probably check back periodically. Thanks for helping me kill some downtime today guys!

Talk to you soon, whether you like it or not. haha

I did a lot of editing...

In a negotiation, there's what the other side SAYS is their bottom line, then there's the real bottom line. Sometimes they are the same, other times not. It's my job to find that out.

This is a very grey area. Homes, except new construction in a subdivision, are not the same. One of my buyers might really want a particular home, and it might be a competitive situation. In that case my job is to get them the home, not to play hardball with the other side. Price might be WAY down the list of priorities in this case. I talk about this in my website, linked below, on the "Buyer's Info" page.

HOWEVER, in a new home situation, absolutely I would be engaging in some probing attacks to find out if your bottom line was for real or not! Again.. anyone who's turned some deals, in RE or otherwise, knows that that's what people SAY, then there's what they will DO if pressed. You think sellers WANT to do a bunch of repairs? No... they do it because they don't want to lose the buyer. Leverage.

If you are sitting a golden chair and can honestly say, "this is the price of this home, take it or leave it", well then that's a nice place to be in. Enjoy it. It won't be like that much longer. Put another way, you guys won't be turning away willing and able buyers who ask for 10 grand off your asking price this time next year, if things go the way I think they will.

An example. When I traded in my Jeep towards my Tundra a couple years ago, the guy(s) on the other side wanted like heck for it to be a nice, genteel transaction between gentlemen... on their terms. Which was $6000 trade for my jeep. This was their take it or leave it position.

5 hours, and a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth later, I got $9500 trade for my jeep, which was roughly it's market value BTW. They tried every tactic in the book, including guilt. You know what? I've never seen one of those guys again. I could CARE LESS about how they "felt". And quite honestly, if I was bringing a buyer to new construction and got hit with that kind "let me overcome your objections" energy from a salesdude, well then it would only stoke the fires of my fiduciary duties to my client. I'd be very happy to examine in detail just where the sellers bottom line was. :-)

As far as comparisons to car salesmen... well... no offense, but you completely ignored the concept of fiduciary duties in your initial posts. Realtors have these duties, car salesmen don't. The comparison is warranted.

We are on the same team in one sense: if my client wants the house, then you and I need to do our best to make the deal happen, and to then make it as painless as possible for our respective clients. Nothing more, nothing less. You would get the courtesies that the law requires from me: fair and honest dealings. This would be couched within the context of me "going for it" as far as my client's interests. If this made you uncomfortable, I don't care! That's not my concern! I will be a good professional handling the details on my side of things but jeez o' PETE I do not owe you some sort of easy transaction.

One last thing... you have made some hay with the idea that your developement is selling "below market value". Uh... you do understand that "market value" is not a fixed entity? Market value has nothing to do with your break-even point. Nor with what you are told your minimum sell price is. Nor with what your client needs to get out of each house to avoid bankruptcy.

Market value is set by the market.

Hey... you came here looking for a tussle, guess you got what you wanted! Keep in mind, though, that we are not here for your amusement- not a "tweak 'em for some fun on a Sunday".

-jeff

A-Train,
Thanks for the post, I actually learned a few things even though I've got some experience on both sides of new home sales (been a salesagent, been a buyers agent and also have purchased a few for myself). I have to admit, I always end up with a handful of unwanted brochures, and always feel so guilty when I am throwing them in the trash (especially the really fancy stuff!!)I don't know why but it has never occured to me to try not to take them. I think when your out "shopping" you have a lot of stuff going through your head and even more so if your buyers are with you. I will definitely be more cautious now about only taking what I need or what my buyers may need instead of walking off with "one of everything". I can only speak for myself, but thanks for bringing up such a "stupid" little thing because it really is something that most people aren't even aware that they even do. Good luck selling those homes!! You sound like you know what your doing and believe me, I've met alot of newhome agents that don't have a clue!!

"Thanks for helping me kill some downtime today guys!"..............I hope he has a lot of tire kickers tomorrow......LOL.

and no downtime.

I just couldn't resist

Running around retrieving brochures from the models no doubt!

General real estate agents do way more work than a new home sales agent! All you do is sit in a nice cool office all day. You negotiate deals that come to you. You aren't out there marketing yourself, trying to get your own buyers, driving around showing all types of homes. You don't have to schedule inspections because the buyer's agent usually does that. You don't have to deal with the lender involved with the buyer. I still think that even from writing a contract to closing the buyer's agent has more obligations to deal with. I know for sure that we do work much harder for our business in general too! Like you said, we have probably spent quite a bit of time with our buyers that we had to gain ourselves before we even walked into your sales office. You get agents walking in left and right bringing in leads for you. Then you get buyers also walking themselves right to you. You get handed much more business than we would ever dream of.

This is why we should get paid much more. I have also heard that many builders will pay the sales agent more money, such as commission, bonuses, etc. if there is no buyer's agent involved.



First of all, I didn't violate any rule. It wasn't my decision for my buyers to walk into these new home sales offices, it was their choice. I have never been included in the deal when this has happened. Therefore, I did not get paid due to greedy builders and their sales agents. For example, I tried to fight KB Homes on it and they just wouldn't allow it. It should be illegal since you builders need us. It is doing the builder a favor by bringing a qualified buyer to a new homes sales office.



Some people were bent out of shape about your attitude towards agents. This discussion board is not just for A-Train's rants! It is for ideas and the such, hence the name of the site. You would get a bit more respect if you would try contributing a bit first before you go off on tangents while trying to gain sympathy. Plain and simple, respect the forum and it's members and we'll respect you back.

well said 007

... or we can tussle.

That's fun too <g>. Maybe not so professional I guess though.

-jeff

cant beat a good tussle thats what i always say

Doesn't happen too much on this forum- which is nice. I love the professionalism here, the obviously high group IQ.

Seems like it was what he was after to lighten up a boring Sunday, and I guess we obliged him, eh?

-jeff

No doubt we will hear plenty more from Mr A on the next slow day!

I really do appreciate other viewpoints, and I do appreciate constructive criticism.

I do not appreciate an arrogant attitude. Nothing gets someone's back up more than that.

*sigh*

Funny, some people like to stir things up.. I appreciate other viewpoints too, and there are certainly different personalities on this board but there are ways and ways of getting your point across without alientating people on your first post!!

yea, i just read the post and while it might have had some good info, I dont like the attitude and follow-up deliveries. Obviously not the only one.

I realize that I'm arrogant. I'm sort of ok with it.

However, let's not forget that everyone else has pontificated their opinions all over this thread as well. I'm really only as guilty as everyone else.

I actually alienated nobody. I never said anyone was below me, not good at what they do, or anything of the sort. I simply offered a differing opinion/point of view from what you are accustomed to.

Maybe you can't teach old dogs new tricks...

welll..... except for car dealers, appliance salesmen or (shudder) insurance salesmen....but they are so far beneath us they don't even count.... right?

Let's not psychoanalyze it... it was a provocative post, it worked as planned, we all had a good time, no harm no foul...

A-train will get his when someone posts something about those annoying Realtors selling new construction! :-)

Welcome to the forum.

-jeff

They have a worse stigma than we do.

I'm just saying. lol

Maybe you will be the one to post it.

I'm not a Realtor...most of us aren't.

Yes, in that sense, you do more work than me.  Congratulations.  I believe in working smarter, not harder...but to each their own.  Now, let's not forget that you CHOSE to be in general real estate.  I pity you none.  However, since you took it upon yourself to do all that work, why exactly should MY company pay you for it?  It is your duty to market yourself in such a way that you get business, not my company's responsibilty to give you the money to do so.  If you are kind enough to bring your clients in, you will be fairly compensated for doing so.  If you don't like my company's rate of pay, don't bring your clients in...but be careful...that's a violation of the code of ethics.  You are kidding yourself if you think you put in more work on a new home sale than the on site agent.  If you are, you could REALLY benefit from my first post...please go back and read it.Again, I make no additional money if you are on the deal or not.  I could care less.

Of course it wasn't your idea for your buyers to violate your trust. Duh. However, the key phrase here is "procuring cause"...of which cannot claim to be. Now, if I want to be cool enough to fake it and pretend like you are, consider it a favor. Maybe buy me lunch after the deal is done.

What people are missing here is that my first post wasn't a blast towards you guys...it's simply a new opinion on how business should be run from a point of view that you clearly don't have here. I was hoping that you would embrace it, but you haven't, so take from it what you will. My success depends none on what you choose to absorb from me...I've dealt with agents like all of you before, I will again, and I will make money regardless. I just want to see everyone do it more effectively.

Also, thanks for making my thread the fastest moving one in this sub forum.  MORE TEAMWORK IN ACTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"If you don't like my company's rate of pay, don't bring your clients in...but be careful...that's a violation of the code of ethics."

Well if they aren't a REALTOR like you then they are not bound by the code of ethics so that is out the window!

In my state paying more for sitting agents selling themselves is a common occurance. I have friends with KB Homes,Wynmarke, and others. Most data shows however that about 70 to 80 percent of new home sales are co-op and the builders do not like the sitting agents pocketing the homes to make more money as it makes there inventory sit longer. I guess it would probably be more productive for a builder to give a bonus to the sitting agent on how fast they move the inventory instead fo double ending the sale.

In my area builders are finishing out there 2 to 3 year projects and dumping the properties. The rest of the developers are sitting on the land as right now with tighter lending guidelines and the prices of the lots being so low it's better to wait until the foreclosure peak recedes after Novemeber and inventory levels go down before they start any big projects again on land they own.


Every area is truly different. Commercial development however is still humming along in my area.

Well what did you expect people to react with? You post a certain way and you're likely to get similar responses.

You're okay with being arrogant? Hey, at least you admit it. Most arrogant people are in total denial that most of the people around them think they're arrogant - and nobody I know of sees that as a *good* or *desirable* quality.

Oh well.

First I think that this is an interesting post, and I'm glad the conversation is going.

However, your "wall crawl" people are probably just afraid of getting roped into a sales pitch that they can't extract themselves from. I'm sure you're good at your job, and I'm sure you can sell. However, with a comment like "I will ask for the sale" it's obvious that you ARE going to try to have that conversation with them.

Your situation is unique, in that you don't get to pre-qualify your potential Buyers before they browse your inventory - that's part of YOUR job, just deal with it. If you only want to work with motivated pre-qualified, ready to buy Buyers, then go back to being a real estate agent where you get to have those conversations before you go out to show the inventory.

It seems to me there are a lot of things about your particular position and job that you don't like dealing with - window shoppers, people not ready to buy, people who take your marketing literature (heaven forbid someone takes it home to talk it over with a spouse or friend). They come with YOUR territory, and you have to deal with it.

We real estate agents have window shoppers too, but they never make it to my car. Since you don't get to choose who you work with (just like we dont' get to choose who comes to one of our open houses), then you just have to work within that framework or find another job.

With regard to the "stand back and let me talk" commentary - I will NOT let you dominate the conversation with My Client. They DID hire me to be their trusted advisor, and I WILL give what YOU may think is MY personal opinion, but my commentary is based upon what I KNOW about my Clients personal preferences, and based upon the prior houses we've seen. My comment, "The kitchen isn't laid out very well" is a cue to them to look closer at that, because they commented before how much the love to cook and entertain, and love to have the whole party in their kitchen. I'm simply focusing them on what THEY have told me is important. With you rattling your sales pitch in their ear, they can't think and focus on the important aspects, so that's what I am there for, to HELP them find a house that suits them. I've been working with the Clients for days, weeks, maybe months, and you think that within 10, 30 or 50 minutes of meeting them that you know their needs better than I do? Nope. You are there to answer questions about the home, and I will cut you off as soon as you start into any kind of sales pitch.

Hats off to A-train for stirring the pot.

my client who is under contract on new construction in the 700k price range loves the work that i do for him... it was his third time using me!

he values my opinion and knows that i wont let him buy anything that i wont be able to sell in the future.

the agent for the builder has the job of trying to upsell every single thing that they can.. for example, a basement at around 54k! from working on flips i can tell you that he can finish the basement for less than 25k and it will be the basement that the builder would have put in, but i saved him 25k. i am there to protect his interest and give my professional opinion and he appreciates that. that is just one example.

i know to do my research and find out what the other houses have so that i can make recomendations and keep him from "overbuilding" and having the most expensive house in the neighborhood, because when he sells it through me i dont want to tell him that i cant sell it for what he ows(i see that on overbuilt houses all the time in my market)

I keep coming back to A-train's comment about how they are selling these homes "below market value".

If the homes are getting proper market exposure... then there's NO SUCH THING as them selling below market value! What they are selling for IS market value!

Real estate very rarely sells for under market value IF it is getting any kind of decent market exposure. The home I closed on (brought a buyer) last month is a great example. Market value of right around $235k in the condition it was in. They put it out for $205k. A feeding frenzy ensued. We got it for $233k.

I think reality in the next year will dope-slap some of the attitude right out of some of the builders and agents selling new construction. "Market Value" is a meaningless concept when used like A-Train used it. Market Value is defined as "what stuff is selling for". Not "what it SHOULD sell for".

I think the nut of what A-T was trying to say in his initial post was:

"C'mon guys, we all want to get paid, I'm a heck of a salesman and I know my product so please, just get out of the way (wink wink, nudge nudge) when you bring your people to my developement and let me do my thing".

And what rubbed most of us wrong about that is that we take our responsibilities to our buyers very seriously and are not ABOUT to just get out of the way and let a salesman work his wiles, just so that we can get paid.

-jeff

I see people here much more arrogant and full of pride than me.

The funny thing is that A-Train is an attention whore. He got all the attention and that is what he wanted.

His posts sound like a bunch of non-sense to me anyway. He's very argumentative and arrogant, which he also doesn't care about.

Learn to respect others and maybe we'll start respecting you as the new homes sales agent. There's a slight chance, but it's a possibility.

If you don't want to be SOLD a home, don't walk into the lion's den. Why should I compromise my ability and theory on how new home sales works just because someone is skiddish around me? In fact, this just fuels my "fiduciary responsibility" to my client.

You guys seem to like your pride more than your money. I'm not going to steal your client, even if I somehow did, it's not like I can do anything for them. I get one whack at them, and trust me, I'm going to take it. In all actuality I'm a blast to work with. I'm fun, funny, charismatic, intuitive, talkative, informational, and helpful. Who doesn't want to be a part of that? Honestly, you can't sit there in your mighty positions as buyer's agents and expect me to not really, really try to sell them a home. You'd be kidding yourself. I wouldn't be doing me, you, or your buyers a service if I didn't at least find out if these homes are in the running.

More than fine. We do mark up our options and they are more expensive than they would be to do later. I don't deny this ever.

I can't force your clients to buy a home, nor can I force them to put options in the home. That's at their discretion, not mine.

This isn't a banter I feel like being part of anymore.

Our homes are a great value for their area...period. A better value than a lot of foreclosure homes (most per capita in the USA) according to many buyers.

The proof is in the statistics.

I'm not trying to rub anyone the wrong way. Not my intention, I'm sorry to those that I've offended. I don't know how many times I need to say that before people believe me.

I'm confused. I've never sold a new home to anyone, or participated in the sale of a new home. But A-Train says


How can you be selling new homes to people without being a realtor? Or are you using that term meaning you're not a NAR member, but do have a real estate license?

Around my area, builders team up with a favorite realtor (by which I mean a licensed real estate broker who is a member of our MLS and NAR) to sell their homes, and the homes are listed for sale in the MLS.

Please don't call me a whore, you don't even know me like that.  LOL

Funny how I kinda felt the same way about you for a while, but I didn't find it necessary to say anything. I have no problems with anyone here...you all dislike me.

I've had nothing but respect for everyone and every opinion here. You seem to be the one saying that I'm spewing nonsense and calling names and whatnot. How rude.

Have some respect for me and my position and maybe I'll let you have a word in edge-wise while I'm talking to your client.

Yes, precisely.  I'm a licensee, but not a Realtor.  I was some time ago, but I went back to the dark side.I've heard of that tactic in the past.  Do you know how well it works?  I've always wondered.

We don't have large housing developments like you have out west, so most new developments would have 10 or fewer homes. So for the size of what we do, I assume it works out all right; otherwise builders would do it differently. I've only seen "on-site" salespeople for condos and apartments.

But this thread has been enlightening to me in at least one sense. I never knew that if one of my customers just happened to go to view new homes, that the salesperson on-site would try to cut me out of the deal. It sure puts a different twist on things, to me at least.

I was in a field previous to real estate where I became expert in overcoming objections in order to sell. With real estate, I pretty much put that active skill out to pasture, as I feel that if I show my customers the right house for them, the house sells itself. I'm a lot more comfortable with the feeling that I've helped my customer find the right property for them than I would be if I felt I talked them into something they would regret later. Active listening skills play a role here...you tell me what you want...I find it.

That's absolutely how you should do it. You have the luxury of everything to look at. I have 4 homes that your client must like or I don't get paid.

Luckily for me, the homes I sell are gorgeous, so getting them to like something isn't entirely difficult. It's getting them to realize that they like it enough to live in it that becomes a challenge.

A-train,

Another slow day? :-)

Your initial post was disrespectful to the whole concept of buyer's agency. Since many if not all of us present do work as buyer's agents at least some of the time, that's what got the ball rolling in the direction it has rolled.

Many buyers are using an agent precisely because they are intimidated by salespeople, don't want to be rushed into anything, don't really understand the process and don't want to make a tactical error, don't want to be the point man in a possibly difficult or contentious negotiation, don't want to pay over market value etc etc etc etc etc.

Thus, our job as buyer's agents, both on a legal (fiducary duties) level, and on a personal (do a good job, get referrals) level is to protect and shield them from just the "energy" you are exuding, and describing, so that our buyers can make a rational decision. NOT be "sold" something.

If I have a serious buyer, I'm not really worried about when or what they buy. I want to find them the right house, when it happens it will happen, and I'll get paid when it closes. "Getting paid" is not my number one concern- nor should it be, according to my fiduciary duties that I am bound to uphold, legally and ethically, under threat of being sued and/or losing my license.

Can you rattle of the specific fiduciary duties that an agent owes their client? That's what I meant earlier about a refresher course. If you think about it a little, you will see just how "wrong" your initial post was.

-jeff

A-Train,

If you are not an attention whore, then how about not replying to every single post on this thread seperately. Learn how to just reply to everything in one single post. We all gained our post count by being members of this board for a long time, 3 years for me. If you have 5 replies to respond to, then do it all in ONE reply. I think it looks more arrogant that you choose to post one reply after another of your own replies.

Mellow down a bit. EARN your respect.

P.S. Another reason I bring this up is because most of us get an email everytime there is a new post on a thread that we have subscribed to. Your posts are filling up my emails because you choose to constantly reply one after another. This is happening to everyone on this thread.

[quote=A-Train]If you don't want to be SOLD a home, don't walk into the lion's den. Why should I compromise my ability and theory on how new home sales works just because someone is skiddish around me? In fact, this just fuels my "fiduciary responsibility" to my client.
quote]

If I walk into your office with a buyer I am representing, when does that person become your client? Quick answer, never (or, not at least while I am representing him/her).

For that matter, when does anyone who walks into your office become a "client"?

Client has a specific meaning in this profession.

I'm off today and killing a little time before lunch.  :)It wasn't disrespectful to buyer's agency.  At no point did I tell someone to not do their job...I encourage that.  But please allow me the professional courtesy to do mine as well.Again, I reiterate, I'm not going to screw anyone over.  If I do take a contract for more than I should, it won't appraise, then we have quite another problem on our hands later on.  This is why we are told to work with fixed pricing.  To make life easier for you, me, and your buyer, and to make sure our appraisals go smoothly.
Anyway, I'm going to go enjoy my day off. It's lunchtime. Talk with you ladies and gents later!

I gotta say this is probably one of the most popular threads in quite awhile in this section of the forum. In one corner we have A-Train the feisty new home sales person. In the other corner we have umm.. hmm.... Everyone else...

Agent 007 - I was not aware of that. I've noted this and will be aware of it going forward. My apologies for filling up your email box. I do understand how annoying that can be.

Keeshonder - The client being referred to in that post is my client...the seller. I understand that "client" has specific meaning in this profession.

Now that I have reread the paragraph a couple of times, I understand what you meant.

Doesn't everyone understand this is just a TROLL looking for attention.

A-train stop debating people to try and make yourself look good.

This whole post is a waste of space.

We never get that many new homes agents on here. I already know alot abotu new homes but for others why don't you post some useful information. It seems like you are getting out all fo your frustrations from work here but not contributing any knowledge to this board.

This baord is abotu putting knowledge in and getting it out so that everyone benefits from sharing and learn how different markets work. All I have seen so far is my builder is this, my homes will outsell foreclosures etc.

You don't need to convince me of it! Get out there and sell,sell,sell!

YES HOW ABOUT ENOUGH ALREADY AND MOVE ONTO A NEW INTERESTING TOPIC! I have a suspicion that A-Train is a plant from the aggrovation department...

yeah!!! that's what I've been doing all day. i may be writing up an offer tomorrow!

here's hoping!

Did you used to sell boats, too?!
That was my boat show line! Did you come to the show to buy a BOAT????

One thing I can't stand is when the other agent addresses my client. Even when it is a customer I am brining, I want to throttle the other agent when they take over the conversation, especially when they start suggesting other listings (usually theirs) that my buyer might like. Many times we have already ruled them out, but buyers are too polite to say shut up. This is why I insist when I show a house, that the listing agent either not be present, or wait outside.

A Train, it would be very helpful if you quoted the person you are addressing. Maybe someone else suggested this, but I'm only on page 3 right now.

A-Train - I think you may be referring to an era of gone-bye days, when the agents primarily served their own interests and manipulated the parties into signing a binding contract as quickly as possible, to ensure that they earned a commission and which at that time was the generally accepted practice throughout the industry, as the agents job.

Today, in most jurisdiction, agents have both a legal and moral obligation to their clients and are required to fulfill their fiduciary obligations to the client or suffer the (dire) consequences. You may recall that under the common law of agency, that the agent is required to put his clients interest above all else, including his own.

An agent, (as you would prefer), who leaves their client alone and unrepresented with you, the agent of the adverse party, who will foreseeably endeavour to further the interest of that adverse party, to the detriment of his client, would clearly be seen as a dereliction of his duty and a breach of his fiduciary obligations to his client, for which he may be held accountable.

Important Notice: This information is provided as basic educational information by the author and is not a substitute for the advice of an expert and/or the advice of a lawyer. There is NO representation as to legality, accuracy, correctness of the herein information and the reader is strongly urged to consult a lawyer in the relevant jurisdiction to ensure accuracy before acting on this information .

Bingo! We have a winner.

-jeff

Um...because the buyers are BLIND and can't see the house next door. Seriously, we have a subdivision like this near me, and they're practically sold out and for top dollar! I can't imagine living like that, but apparantly a lot of people do.

Not having read ALL the comments, because most are from a point of inexperience, I have to agree with A-trains initial observations about RE agents and their so called fiduciary responsibility to their clients. Give me a break!!!
Don't be the agent who denies their client the perfect home because of your ignorance and prejudices, and I'm not working for a builder and have sold new construction and resales going on 18 years for the benefit of my buyers.

i think the notion of using hard core sales tactics is disrespectful to people's intelligence. everyone knows what they like and where they prefer to live.

what kind of an idiot can be talked into buying a specific home they would not otherwise buy? isn't that kind of dumb?

I think A-Train feel off the planet. He hasn't trolled in a while.

A-Train, what general area is your community in? Maybe I have recently met you in one of the new home sales tracts. I was at one a few weeks ago where the sales guy could have been you. Do you work in the Southeast?

Wow guys, I can't believe this is still going. I haven't logged in because I'm quite shocked by the mentality around here. I truly hope we are all being e-tough guys. My fear is that the opinions expressed here are held by a majority of Realtors nationwide. I can't handle the one-dimensional nonsense that I've been hearing...it blows my mind.

Let me just say this though. Do us all a favor and at least, AT LEAST extend the courtesy to your new home sales guy in an equal manner as you would the listing agent for any resale home. I don't begrudge you for walking in my door, don't begrudge me for your decision to walk your clients in.

Mr. 007, I will simply tell you that we haven't met. If you met me, you'd know it. But I'm curious, did you get the house sold with the gentleman that you thought was me? I'm interested in the details regarding what transpired and your overall thoughts on it. Hopefully you didn't punch the guy in the face thinking it was me...that could make further relations awkward for you and that guy.

Missed this thread when it started, but I would like some advice from someone on "the other side," A-Train. Recently I was working with a buyer who was in town for one day. Had to buy that one day. Keeping in mind the buyer's requirements, I knew their best bet was one particular subdivision, which had several resales and one inventory home. This particular builder does not do spec, but a deal fell apart and they had this one home. I showed the resales first, since the buyers had already seen them on MLS and liked them. The inventory home had only become available the day before, and as the day progressed and I heard their comments on the resales, I knew the inventory home was going to be the slam-dunk winner.

We go in that one, they are already envisioning the furniture placement, referring to it as "our house," I'm getting ready to pull out paperwork ... and then the on-site agent shows up and puts on the hard press. The couple was so turned off. They began to wonder why the guy was so desperate to sell it. I'm trying to reassert control of the situation, and then a second on-site agent shows up. Finally I had to be borderline rude and march my buyers out of there so I could talk to them in private. In five minutes, I had the deal underway, but I knew if those guys kept talking we were going to be starting all over with a new area.

Yes, represent your community, but respect my relationship with my clients. And WHY do we have to use your builder's offer forms rather than the state-approved forms everyone else uses? To make me look like a bumbling idiot when I miss three of the four dozen places they are supposed to initial???? LOL

And why does it take 10 days to get a ratified contract? If they want to close in 30 days, we just put a serious kink in the mortgage approval process ... unless they use YOUR lender ... maybe that is the point?

I recently had a builder say we won't sell you this home unless you use our closing attorney, even though the buyer was paying the closing costs and our state law dictates buyer's choice if he is paying. Fortunately my buyer didn't care; if I had been the buyer personally, I would have walked, feeling I could not trust the attorney's work in that stranglehold situation.

Is this just stuff I have to put up with, on top of the reduced commissions offered by builders? You may think it is less work -- in my experience, it is not.

I actually explain to my buyers that each builder uses their own contracts, and as a result, I'm not currently familiar with them.

I then ask my buyers to go get lunch while I read every single page of the contract, ask questions of the sales agent, then when my buyers get back, I go over every word with them and ask if they'd like to make any changes.

Granted, I can't make the changes as I'm not a lawyer, but the principle to the transaction can do whatever they'd like.

It usually adds 2 hours or so to the day, but my buyers have always appreciated my honesty and my time - just as I've appreciated their referrals.

If the builder wants to move the house - they deal with the changes - if not...then it's not the right deal (even if it is the right house). It's a fun game working with new construction builders...

We have a lot of new homes in my area and A-Train is 99% accurate in what he is saying.

People, take your egos out of it, stop puffing your chests in front of your clients, and let the new homes agents do their thing. Most of the time they are better than you. (oh sorry, did I bruise your fragile egos?)

The new homes are around here are about $800k-$1.4mil and a 3% check for selling a home is a great deal.

The client won't buy if they don't want to. But when agents egos get involved, watch out.

A-Train - THANK YOU FOR POSTING THE TRUTH. I love those 3% deals on the million dollar homes, and believe me, my clients are happy as hell because they bought a new home in a new neighborhood and it's a win-win-win!!!!!!!

So are you saying that we should just sit back, allow the new home sales agent to take advantage of my "spur-of-the-moment" buyer, just to obtain a check that I didn't do anything for? I don't think so. Nothing to do with my ego. I feel like I should work for my money. The new home sales agent is not better than me at knowing my buyer's needs and wants. I am there to protect and allow time for my buyer to think about it. If it were just up to the new home sales agent, every buyer would walk in and buy a home while they're there at the spur of the moment. They don't want my buyer to think about it. That's taking advantage of them. I always tell my buyer to think about it.

I represent 2 developments that are new construction but also sell/list many other properties besides these developments so I definately understand both sides of this discussion. In my case it is usually the newer/part timer Realtors that are "scared" that I may have 2 seconds alone with their clients (or usually customers)...the more seasoned Realtors know the process with new construction and are usually OK with myself or someone on my team doing the presentation (which is VERY low pressure).
Have I been in other developments where I want to strangle the agent/person on board...you bet I have but I still let them take control of the presentation as they should know it much better than myself.

As long as the presentation is low pressure and informative I would have no problem letting an agent for the builder talk to my clients.

I have stepped back and let listing agents go over the features of homes when they were required to be present by the seller - I'm more than happy to let someone who is more knowledgeable about the property tell my clients about the important facts.

Just don't go trying to pressure them or snake them away and we'll be fine.

Summers, here in Nevada we can only work for one or the other. It is either the new homes sales tract or general real estate with a brokerage. We can't do both here. This is different where you are?

Agent 007,

you cant work for a broker and list the homes of a builder?

I let the sales trailer agents do their "thing" when they're flipping my burger at McDonalds. That's where a lot of them are working nowdays in my area (or Home Depot). I've sold 3 new construction homes in the past month and in only one situation was I actually impressed with the knowledge and professionalism of the trailer salesman. At one of the communities where my client bought a townhome the person in the sales trailer had to "get back to me on that" for most of my and my client's questions. He later told us that he was new and a part-timer. True story.

Well that's too bad about those agents. That shouldn't be the essence of a new home sales guy, but as with anything, a couple bad apples tend to spoil the whole bunch. Good work on getting the ball rolling in the right direction again!

We use our own forms because we have a team of corporate attorneys that has seen the various suits/complaints of the buyers in the past and have tailored the contract to safeguard the company. We could use your forms, but it's different because these are new homes and certainly require different disclosures as a result of that. As for missing signatures...why in God's green earth is the on site agent not doing it with you and your buyers? I cannot fathom even one good reason that he wouldn't if everyone is within close proximity. Of course, sometimes you have to put the contract in FedEx to get the deal done...but I would rather drive 2 hours to meet up with you and your clients than send it through FedEx and not be there to make sure all of the signatures/initials happened properly and to answer the inevitable questions that will arise.

The timelines for getting a signed contract bother me too. However, mathematically speaking, our admin people are busy folks. They can't just drop whatever they are doing to sign this deal. I dislike it, but it's the nature of the beast.

Out here we don't use "closing attorneys" we use title companies. But to answer your question, it's for a few reasons.

1. We own the title company
2. They are properly equipped to handle everything that has to do with new construction.
3. They can dedicate themselves to us and only us.

Based on my experience about 85% of title companies are effectively worthless. At least this way there is a relationship established between them, mortgage, the city, the county, the builder, sales, and all the pieces are more simple to put together.

I have no idea what builders are paying Realtors in your area. Out here it's a bare minimum of 3% (a few stragglers aside) and there are some places that go to about 5% even. Honestly though, if you are in a new home deal as the buyer's representative and you are having to do a lot of work still, then either you or the new home agent are doing something wrong. It's my personal goal to make a Realtor's life easy. It's excellent for return business when deals just run smooth for them.

There is a small grey area here. There are some Realtors in town who are "full time" on site new home people, but they also have the ability to go into the resale market and go that route as well.

I haven't looked into this, but at no given point are you either a "new home sales" person or a "resale" person in a legal point of view. In fact, when I was with the corporate sales team with my current builder I had the opportunity to sell my clients a new home from any builder in town...which I did occasionally.

BTW, not to toot my own horn (which is a nice way for me to warn you that I'm about to LOL) but I took 4 people to communities by other builders, represented the buyer, did it just the way I talked about in my original post, and ultimately contracted 3 out of the 4 prospects.

I may be the only agent employed by a builder to represent a buyer at another builder's site.

007,
All of the new construction is in the MLS and all of my team members are licensed Realtors and yes you can do both here...I can't understand why some areas would prohibit doing both but each state has it's own rules.

I am a partner in the ownership of one of the developments I represent, have the second development with another builder, have another builders spec home listed with other lots available for custom build, and have represented many buyers at other developer projects...:)

A Train

You state that in Nevada that you can be a new home agent and also sell resale properties. You better recheck that because as a new home agent of the builder you can not sell resale properties. The second note is that any agent that would trust their clients well being is not a good agent. You are representing the builder and he is the one who is making your paycheck and your loyalty is to him. This is why you onsite agents have buyers sign the screw the realtor book, otherwise known as the visitor log. You don't even tell them the truth about signing that book. Why should they believe that you are working in their best interest. When I take my clients to a new home community I am there when they sign the contract, when they go to the design center, when they do their walks with the superintendant, when they do the final walk-thru and when they sign their docs. I would not just drop my clients off at a builder and trust that that agent would take as good of care of my client as I would.

LMFAO!!! I couldn't stop laughing at this comment!!

There are over 100 posts in this thread...I suggest you read some of them before you chip in with your $.02.

Realtors do not get paid as a result of the work you put in, that's not what you are worth to me, nor to my company. We could care less whether or not you attend your buyer's design center appointment, walkthroughs, or title appointment. You do that as a courtesy to your client, and that speaks highly of you. As far as we are concerned, it's not necessary. How do you think we get the hundreds upon hundreds of other buyers into contract and through escrow without a buyer's agent? You aren't necessary to the process. You are, however, fully capable of being a big, big, big help, and I'd be glad to further inform you on how you can be part of the solution and not part of the problem.

What you do get paid for is this big phrase we use in this business called "procuring cause". I won't insult your intelligence by reminding you what that is, but that is what you get paid for. That is why Realtor commissions are paid out of every builders marketing budget. Now, if your client happens to come in and take a look and sign the "screw the Realtor" book, as you so succinctly put it, then I'm sorry. You simply weren't the procuring cause of the transaction. However, as stated before, if you come to me and I haven't already put your buyers into contract, I will do what I can to get you included in the deal so long as your aren't an indignant egomaniac who has a false sense of entitlement to a commission that legally you haven't earned. How is that any different than your buyers calling an agent on a sign in some yard, then the listing agent coming in, showing the house and locking your buyers down?

Sure, you'd be upset. You'd feel cheated. But in the other sense, you can't win 'em all, and furthermore it stands to reason that if you were doing such a great job for those buyers you would have locked them down and gotten them in a home already.

I hate to seem brash, but that is the reality of the situation, guys.

A-Train--I am not going to pile on, but I do have one favor to ask you. It will help you and all of us. When you reply to someome on these threads, will you use the quote feature as opposed to the reply feature? I have no idea whom you are replying to on most of your replies. That would make it easier to figure out. thanks.

^^tip

if you look at the top of the individual message you will se "RE: UserName"

That is 100% on the money. Like it or not, you have to educate your customers and let them know how this game works. If they still go to a builder (or a listing agent via sign-call) without you, then either 1) you didn't educate them very well or 2) they don't like you.

Locally: When a buyer executes an exclusive “Buyers Representation Agreement” and purchases a property during the term of the agreement, the buyer is legally bound to pay that agent the agreed upon commission irregardless of who else the buyer may buy through.

There is also an onus on all agent to make a reasonable effort to ascertain whether or not the buyer is currently represented by another agent and to check with our computerizes “Buyers Registry” to see if the buyer has been registered as a client of any other buyers agent and to circumvent some of the problems related to the topic under discussion.

In some instances, a buyer who has ignored the advice of his buyers agent and purchased a property through another agent has ended up having to pay two commissions.

Usually, I make a point of advising a client of such and that I wouldn't want to see them stuck with having to pay two commissions, and so far buyers seem to have paid attention to my advice.

Important Notice: This information is provided as basic educational information by the author and is not a substitute for the advice of an expert and/or the advice of a lawyer. There is NO representation as to legality, accuracy, correctness of the herein information and the reader is strongly urged to consult a lawyer in the relevant jurisdiction to ensure accuracy before acting on this information .

Sure, fear tactics work very effectively...especially when it comes to how fat or thin your wallet may become as a result of your choices.

That's kind of what the builders do to make sure that buyer's agents are doing the right thing as well. It's kind of an extreme measure to make sure that people follow procedure as to your liking.

It's somewhat sad that it has come to this, but a few bad apples probably spoiled the whole bunch a number of decades ago.