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#219461 - 04/13/08 11:35 PM How can a site with no links rank higher than my site?
captain21 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/07
Posts: 101
Loc: Arkansas
My website has over 300 inbound links (Google Webmaster). Most of them are quality relevant links. Another site recently moved ahead of me in Google organic search and it has no inbound links that I can find.

I know how to do a link search and the competing site does not have any inbound links from other sites.

How are they ranking higher? Any suggestions welcome.
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#219475 - 04/14/08 12:24 AM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: captain21]
Perky_REALTOR Offline
Mod Squad
Major Contributor

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 7688
Loc: PA
Does the other website have more relevant content? has the other site been around longer? is the seo better?

inbound links are but one piece of the puzzle. my site has 138 inbound links, my competitor has 92 and their site is ranked higher than mine with more page rank too...(interestingly enough, what galls me is that I built their site...) because it has more meaty content and has been around for several years (mine is newer).

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#219510 - 04/14/08 07:34 AM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: Perky_REALTOR]
Bigtoe Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 2238
Loc: Outer Banks
1 top quality link is better than 100 low quality links. Other than that there could be any number of thing affecting either site but it is impossible to tell without seeing them.
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Your Outer Banks real estate agent. Helping people buy and sell OBX real estate since 1989.

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#221020 - 04/19/08 10:05 PM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: Bigtoe]
Steven M Carlson Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 63
Loc: Tampa, Florida
There are many ways in which google ranks websites, not all are from 'links'. They also look at how often you update your website, how relevant the website is to its keywords (ex: are you just spam), how long have you owned the website (is it brand new?--less points).

Hope this helps
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Real Estate Coach
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#221573 - 04/22/08 06:56 AM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: Steven M Carlson]
Adier Offline
Member

Registered: 04/01/08
Posts: 191
Loc: n/a

 Quote:
Mathematical PageRanks (out of 100) for a simple network (PageRanks reported by google are rescaled logarithmically). Page C has a higher PageRank than Page E, even though it has fewer links to it: the link it has is much higher valued. A web surfer who chooses a random link on every page (but with 15% likelihood jumps to a random page on the whole web) is going to be on Page E for 8.1% of the time. (The 15% likelihood of jumping to an arbitrary page corresponds to a damping factor of 85%.) Without damping, all web surfers would eventually end up on Pages A, B, or C, and all other pages would have PageRank zero. Page A is assumed to link to all pages in the web, because it has no outgoing links.

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#224622 - 05/05/08 10:24 AM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: Adier]
dresden Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/07
Posts: 109
Loc: Broomfield, CO
My bet would be that the other site has more authoritative incoming links versus yours. Authority plays a huge role in how links are tied to a page's ranking in the SERPs.
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#226381 - 05/13/08 02:52 PM Gaming Google [Re: captain21]
Tammy Winner Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 6
Loc: South Carolina, USA
A couple of the sites that rank above me have thousands and thousands of links (I'm guessing both backlinks and exchanges). Will Google eventually catch this as cheating?
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#226389 - 05/13/08 03:04 PM Re: Gaming Google [Re: Tammy Winner]
doug Offline

Admin
Veteran Member

Registered: 12/31/69
Posts: 1096
Loc: Canada
I would not hold my breath waiting for Google to do anything about it. The best you can hope for is Google to devalue the pages that links pointing at the site are located on and even that may not cause the site to drop much. Google will generally not penalize a site for receiving links.

I came across a Realtor's site yesterday that was ranking in the top 2 or 3 for very competitive keywords. When I checked, this site had a couple of thousand backlinks - all from forum signature links and run-of-site paid links - no reciprocals.

Even though the pages these links are on have no PR on the Toolbar - a couple of thousand links of any kind seems to be pretty attractive to Google.
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#226530 - 05/14/08 06:43 AM Re: Gaming Google [Re: doug]
Adier Offline
Member

Registered: 04/01/08
Posts: 191
Loc: n/a
That's what some webmasters says, be careful where/who you link to.

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#226549 - 05/14/08 07:55 AM Re: Gaming Google [Re: Adier]
doug Offline

Admin
Veteran Member

Registered: 12/31/69
Posts: 1096
Loc: Canada
Fore the benefit of some readers - some webmasters panic at that statement though and choose to believe that means that a site should not link out at all - which is not what you are saying.

Having the right links leaving your site can still tell Google that you are a trusted site, a good resource - and will help and not hurt your ranking.
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#226759 - 05/15/08 07:40 AM Re: Gaming Google [Re: doug]
Adier Offline
Member

Registered: 04/01/08
Posts: 191
Loc: n/a
My statement must have been too general, bottom line is don't link to bad sites.

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#229610 - 05/30/08 02:04 AM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: captain21]
repa Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/08
Posts: 31
Loc: na
Originally Posted By: captain21
My website has over 300 inbound links (Google Webmaster). Most of them are quality relevant links. Another site recently moved ahead of me in Google organic search and it has no inbound links that I can find.

I know how to do a link search and the competing site does not have any inbound links from other sites.

How are they ranking higher? Any suggestions welcome.


Many times people claim that a site has no backlinks but a thorough check find out that the site actually has many backlinks and even quality links.

Can you post the url in order that we can analyse it?

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#234108 - 06/22/08 04:13 PM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: repa]
GetSmart Offline
Member

Registered: 06/21/08
Posts: 35
Loc: NC
heres a tool that gives you an idea of what links are linking to your competition and whether their page rank is forged or not. if they have a forged ranking then you might not want to link to them, because when the hammer is layed you might be affected as well. www.checkpagerank.net

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#234182 - 06/23/08 05:46 AM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: GetSmart]
All Night I.T. Offline
Member

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 12
Loc: Alabama
There also a few highly volatile techniques involving several domains, google, and redirects that can get a site positioned at the top without having a page rank or inbound links.

You can use a site's positioning to point it, or redirect it, to another site. Hence, leaving the trail of inbound and outbound links behind.

Sometimes this is necessary to move domains, but you can discover interesting things about PR and positioning doing it that way.

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#241320 - 07/30/08 06:35 PM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: All Night I.T.]
liz2sell Offline
Member

Registered: 07/29/08
Posts: 40
Loc: CA, USA
I’m not sure if it’s been covered or not, but I have had the same problem. There are different reasons.

The age of the site.
The ‘quality’ of links coming in.
The links are in a different category than where they are pointing to.
The ‘quality’ of the content of the site.
Correct usage of META tags.

There are more, but this is just the basics that I can think of.

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#245666 - 08/21/08 09:59 PM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: liz2sell]
UpstartAgent Offline
Member

Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 86
Loc: US
300 inbound links are not very many...I have around 2669 according to iwebtool...The authority of the site means a lot - 500 links from page rank 0 is about the same as 1 from a page rank 5 site...

I would check the SEO of your site - are important things as h2 and in bold? How are your keywords? Look at that site and see what they are doing differently and how you can try to get ahead of them for optimization.

You should also strive for anchor text links. Good luck!
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#355011 - 10/19/10 08:43 AM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: liz2sell]
agentcampus Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/10
Posts: 39
Loc: Austin,TX
Google would gladly choose 1 authority link than a bunch of low quality links.

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#400846 - 02/09/12 10:00 PM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: captain21]
realyte Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 31
Loc: CA, USA
You don't see all the links. Just because you don't see the links it doesn't mean that there are no sites link to the site. Also, it is not just the number of links but the quality of the links that matter.

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#403898 - 03/24/12 08:49 AM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: realyte]
Altinkum Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/12
Posts: 49
Loc: Turkey
[quote=realyte]You don't see all the links. Just because you don't see the links it doesn't mean that there are no sites link to the site.[/quote]

That is very true, but this was back in 208 and there weren't as many tools available then, nor were they of the same capabilities as those available now, and we don't know what the OP was using. Having said that, it have tried some recently which show little or none for my own site whereas I actually have thousands, so maybe in some cases things haven't really progressed.

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#404546 - 04/06/12 04:16 AM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: captain21]
Big Squid Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/06/12
Posts: 6
Loc: CA
How else is a tool going to search for all backlinks to a site but by using a search engine? A search engine, like Google (or Bing) has the resources and power to index millions and billions of webpages.

Unless a particular tool has been indexing their own web engine, the tool will be forced to use a preexisting index, most likely Google.

If that is the case, then they will be limited to what a search engine is willing to reveal about their indexing methods, which will not me much. If, let's say Google, were to give you an accurate measure of all backlinks to your site, then they'd be compromising the integrity of their algorhythm(s).

The very basic answer to the OP is that Google values the other site as more authoritative (content & value of links) on that particular keyword term.

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#404591 - 04/06/12 07:07 PM Re: Gaming Google [Re: doug]
BillW Offline
Member

Registered: 11/28/11
Posts: 56
Loc: Seattle, WA
Doug, very well put and I believe the stigma of outbound links is one reason why webmasters are not taking full advantage of comment systems on their sites. Take a look at seomoz.org and how their "members" consistently comment and rate every post that their authors write (although seomoz doesn't allow outbound links). If webmasters were more open to allowing outbound links for quality comments, these sites would rank much better with the appropriate control.
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We are local WA real estate agents who provide quality service and the best homes for sale in Seattle.

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#404624 - 04/07/12 06:48 AM Re: Gaming Google [Re: BillW]
Bigtoe Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 2238
Loc: Outer Banks
Originally Posted By: BillW
I believe the stigma of outbound links is one reason why webmasters are not taking full advantage of comment systems on their sites. Take a look at seomoz.org and how their "members" consistently comment and rate every post that their authors write (although seomoz doesn't allow outbound links).


It is not the stigma, it is the work involved in moderating the spam that forces most webmasters to turn off comments. If you allow links in your comments you will be overloaded with spam.
_________________________
Your Outer Banks real estate agent. Helping people buy and sell OBX real estate since 1989.

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#404635 - 04/07/12 08:14 AM Re: Gaming Google [Re: captain21]
WestfieldNJGuy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 37
Loc: New Jersey
If your competitors are ranking higher than you, try improving your site's social markers. Google (post-Panda) is now placing increasing emphasis on improving search rankings for those sites offering the best user experience. Facebook Fan pages and Twitter are two examples.

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#410501 - 07/24/12 09:48 AM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: captain21]
mwds120 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 41
Loc: Indiana
My guess is that it has something to do with the domain name and URL being more relevant.
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#421748 - 03/17/13 11:19 AM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: captain21]
Joe Hayden Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/13
Posts: 52
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Hard to know...

I know that it is not your intention, but you have left off a significant amount of data about your analysis that could affect rankings.

The first question that I would get an answer to is how do you know that they are ranking higher than you? You could easily be making a mistake in your position analysis that could skew any repairs or changes you might consider.

Start there - get precise ranking information...

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#423521 - 05/08/13 11:17 AM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: captain21]
Jansen Team Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/08/13
Posts: 2
Loc: CA
This happened to me as well. Three very old sites using no SEO, still using flash, and only 5 pages each - on page one! They are all over 10 years old. I guess that is why they rank so high.

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#432922 - 02/12/14 05:19 AM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: Steven M Carlson]
MyCupOfTea Offline
Member

Registered: 02/11/14
Posts: 34
Loc: Arizona
You are so right. I would add that it matters how you get links. Some types of backlinks can actually hurt your placement, such as paid links, links from link farms, links from questionable sites.

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#435969 - 05/13/14 01:25 AM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: captain21]
OttawaRealEstate Offline
Member

Registered: 05/13/14
Posts: 32
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario
Keep getting solid links and posting quality content to your site... You'll pass them soon enough!
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Webmaster of Ottawa Real Estate your source for Ottawa homes for sale, condos, apartment rentals and more.

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#436000 - 05/14/14 02:01 AM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: captain21]
Bigtoe Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 2238
Loc: Outer Banks
I have multiple pages ranking with no inbound links. Onsite, internal links work like magic right now.

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#436430 - 05/29/14 09:33 PM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: captain21]
Shilpa Offline
Member

Registered: 05/29/14
Posts: 29
Loc: Karnataka, India
Its mainly because of contents i feel. and if they have govenment and educational links then they will get good ranking in SERP

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#436719 - 06/11/14 03:16 PM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: captain21]
Dave Kovaleski Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 57
Loc: Poconos of Pa
What tool where you using to check the backlinks? Perhaps try another?

As others have said, backlinks are a piece of the puzzle, more important are links from relevant sites as well as links you build yourself from quality content with your subject matter that point back to your site, like blogs and article submissions. You need variety, changing anchor texts, and quality content from the links. Not to mention great and updating content on the site itself.
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Pocono Pennsylvania Real Estate Agent
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#436903 - 06/18/14 06:28 PM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: captain21]
JamesJam Offline
Member

Registered: 06/15/14
Posts: 53
Loc: california
Hi,
its not necessary that the site contain more back links has high ranking or PR.
Its depends upon your content,freshness of your content rank your site high and PR will be comes if site got links from a good and high reputed site. May be the link they got equal to 50-100 poor rank links. So post on very good and high pR site with good and fresh content. it really helps you.
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#436938 - 06/19/14 05:53 PM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: captain21]
FlyerCo Offline
Member

Registered: 05/17/14
Posts: 45
Loc: Orange County, California
It's not the number of the links... It's the quality of the ones given. In fact I would argue that because you have so many, most of them are probably low quality in which Google is most likely penalizing you for and ranking your content lower.

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#437117 - 06/24/14 07:46 PM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: captain21]
Mike Vali Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/14
Posts: 12
Loc: Colorado,USA
my advice are There are many ways in which google ranks websites, not all are from links. how relevant the website is to its keywords how long have you owned the website .

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#437486 - 07/10/14 04:42 AM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: captain21]
Adam Louis Offline
Member

Registered: 07/08/14
Posts: 12
Loc: Florida, USA
It's all about extremely relevant and high quality content, the age of the domain, social signals, visits, page rank. As mentioned here, Quality over quantity of back-links matter. You can have 1000's of garbage back-links pointing to your site (black-hat SEO)or just two high page rank back-links from authority sites. The two quality back links may catapult your site to page one in a heartbeat.

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#437525 - 07/11/14 09:52 AM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: captain21]
Eric G. Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/14
Posts: 86
Loc: California
Keywords plus worth reading contents and if you have a low competition on your targeted keywords, that’s for sure a winner. And today’s, if your website doesn't have much backlink, then your rank is safe from being penalized.
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#441533 - 12/09/14 07:13 PM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: Perky_REALTOR]
Jennifer Kelly Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/14
Posts: 24
Loc: Maharashtra, India
[quote=Perky_REALTOR]Does the other website have more relevant content? has the other site been around longer? is the seo better?

inbound links are but one piece of the puzzle. my site has 138 inbound links, my competitor has 92 and their site is ranked higher than mine with more page rank too...(interestingly enough, what galls me is that I built their site...) because it has more meaty content and has been around for several years (mine is newer).

[/quote]

I completely agree with you, there are various other factors too, which matters a lot while considering the Page rank of a website.

There may be various reasons like Domain age, Relevant content, how rapidly you update the website, etc.

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#448372 - 10/20/15 11:47 AM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: captain21]
DFireFly Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/15
Posts: 33
Loc: Ky
it's also possible for someone who might be building links to hide their tracks, so that most linkcheckers won't find them, or list them, but they still count in the eyes of Google. They might do this so that competitors can't come in behind them and reverse engineer their link profile. Just a thought.
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#449115 - 11/30/15 05:52 PM Re: How can a site with no links rank higher than my site? [Re: captain21]
Vincent Menchini Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/30/15
Posts: 5
Loc: Miami, FL
This is a very old thread but anyway there is a lot of factors a website will rank higher not just on Backlinks.

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