Why is that changing the subject?

My scenario is about someone asking to see property in an area the agent has deemed unsafe or undesirable. There are at least two issues here - one is the safety issue and the other is not disclosing what you know, which could really hurt the client in the long run (if you allow them to purchase property that appears to be desirable but really isn't) - the issue is disclosure - in every other case you would disclose every last detail, but in this case you would be racist, classist, or accused of steering if you steered the client away from the undesirable area - the area that might look nice on the surface, but is really dangerous.

I mean you could direct the client to check police records, but why would you be doing that - you wouldn't do that for every other property - in this case, say you said, "If you would like to know crime statistics, check with the local police department," and then they said to you, "Why are you telling me that? Is there a problem in this neighborhood?" What are you supposed to say? What if it is a gang neighborhood? Are gangs in a protected class?

Are prostitutes, druggies, and other "undesirables" in a protected class?

What am I missing?

I agree with you, I feel the same way.
I don't know the answer.

Good question Changeagent. I would not hesitate to tell you that a particular area has a reputed crime problem,,, But I have to be consistent. I would also tell the next guy who comes along the same thing. You might choose not to live there, but it might be perfect for the next guy. The low price might be enough to overcome the occasional mugging
Agents get in trouble when they try to "guide" and "direct" certain types of people to certain types of areas because they believe that's where they belong. Or they provide different levels of service to different races or classes of people with otherwise similar qualifications.
It's fairly simple. Treat people fairly.

MD: I don't think it is that simple. We all understand the concept of fairness - it is putting it into practice that is tricky. Your second sentence is a little simplistic. I am sure there are those agents that have the time on their hands to try to engineer society in the way you described, but that is not what we are talking about here.

If I tell every single person who inquires about a certain area that it has a "reputed crime problem," as you suggested, why is that not steering people OUT of that area - keeping them away from an area that they otherwise might buy in?

Changeagent, I can tell you the area has a reputed crime problem, I can tell you the area has a high occurance of radon, or termite. I can tell you it's in a flood zone, I can tell you lots of things that can be independently verified, and it's up to you to check it out. If you are ok with radon, high crime, or termite, then fine, let's write it up. If not you pass on it.

What I won't discuss is the racial make-up of the neighborhood. You'll have to do your own research and tell me where you want to live. If you tell me you only want to live in Trump Estates, that's fine, and that's all i'm gonna show you until you tell me otherwise, or we discuss it and you decide other areas might be suitable too.
If you tell me you only want to live in a "white" area, i'll tell you to get back to me when you figure out where those areas are, because I have no idea! and as Cherir says "my ghetto might not be your ghetto" I am NOT gonna pick them out for you based on my subjective opinion. I am not gonna get into a discussion about Fair Housing Law either... I just won't discuss Race, Religion or Politics with you!... At least not while we are doing business. If we become friends later then I can tell you the error of your ways!

Well, that makes sense.

But what would you tell an out-of-town prospect who spotted some *bargains* on the web and wants you to show them in the evenings,when he is in town for two days at a conference (and he is definitely moving into the area).

It depends.
If I am the listing agent, my duty is to the seller, so if you like my price and want to buy it, I'm selling it to you. It's up to you to do your homework. That being said, I wouldn't take a listing in an area I didn't feel was relatively safe.

If I am your Buyers Agent, I will discuss the pros and cons, positives and negatives. If you still want it, i'll sell it to you, but i'll only take you there if I am comfortable going there at any time of the day or night.

Whether it's a black, white or hispanic neighborhood, it makes no difference. If it's dangerous I won't go there. Crime is crime and you'll be just as dead if you get shot in Chinatown, Little Italy or Suburbia.

Hmmmmm.

GailSusan,
So I cannot use stupid on someone that finds it necessary to call people racist and klan members but it is just fine for that person to make those types of comments. You failed to make comment on that! What a surprise!!! Perhaps you should try the concept of being fair in your criticism and I would be more inclined to take that criticism.

Paul, I'm not the moderator, you are. You took on the role of being fair and ensuring the rules of the forum are upheld.

changeagent and MDHomes2Go, I think the main reason that we as agents are advised not to talk about crime statistics or schools directly is that if a client bases their decision to buy a home based upon perceived safety or that their children will be able to go to a particular school these are things we have no control over.

Let's say that we encourage our clients to find a home east of Main Street because it is safer and then a bullet goes through their front window the first night they move in -- there is a potential liability issue because we represented this area as being safer. It's the same with the school system. I always put down "Per Board of Education" for the school district for liability reasons. If redistricting occurs or the school burns down and the kids have to go to another school, you don't want your clients saying, "I moved here because my agent told me my kids would be able to go to this school." Things that are beyond our control can be factored in by our clients in making their decision to buy a home, but we shouldn't bring them up.

Time to cool down, everyone. First of all, Paul has done a good job for us for a long time, and I do not believe anyone thinks of him the way he has been described in one of these posts. This is an extremely volatile subject, although I do not understand why it is continuing. The solution to all these questions should be very simple...obey the law as each interprets it based on their education, experience, and support system. Why can't we just kill this thread and go on to another one. Let's not all get crazy over a subject that should not be discussed any further. We all know right from wrong, we know who we have to answer to, and we all know what is expected of us as professionals. Each of us has our own moral code, but we share the same laws, rules, regs...I hope each interprets them to the best of his or her ability, because we are all ultimately responsbile for our own actions, first to our higher power, and then to our assorted regulator agencies. Nothing is happening in this thread now to benefit anyone, so can we please close it.

Darlene, I would like to respectfully disagree with you as I think this is an interesting thread, especially the most recent discussion between changeagent and MDHomes2Go.

While I would like to see the emotions toned down and the name calling stopped, I think the subject is an important one and the interpretation of Fair Housing Laws is not a straightforward one and therefore deserves scrutiny, reflection and discussion.

GailSusan: This thread has been going on since May 11, and it has become very heated. Everyone has already given their primary opinions. Threads generally start falling apart big time when they have been this hot for this long.

We are in the housing industry, so of course Fair Housing Laws are of the utmost importance. We need them, and I'm sure everyone who posted wants to abide by them...it's the particular way everyone interprets these laws that is in dispute here. You are correct that the subject does deserve scrutiny, reflection and discussion, but...it looks rather hopeless on this thread right now. Maybe those who do still have questions could ask their broker or call their regulatory agency. Even better--maybe they could take a course in Fair Housing Laws. That type course would not hurt any of us if we have the time to take it.

Well, I've taken the Fair Housing Law course and it doesn't address all the issues brought up here. I think this is a fascinating discussion and if you are tired of reading the thread, there are plenty of others on this forum that you can look at instead.

I take exception to the idea of "closing a thread down" because it has become "heated." Just the fact that it has become heated illustrates the importance of continuing on, as there are issues yet to be understood or resolved. When issues or subjects "cycle" it is because they have not been processed. Once something is processed (i.e., come to natural completion), then it will be done. If a particularly hot topic is abandoned, it is not because it has been processed, but because a hot spot has been reached. The same problems will resurface on another thread. Nothing goes away just because it is suppressed. My views are informed by the study of a particular school of psychology.

I wonder what prompted your response, Darlene? It seems that Paul and MD can take care of themselves.