I have this deal that was supposed to close on the 16th of last month. Since the morning of the 16th I've been told by the mortgage broker that it's not going to close because countrywide is taking their time with the whole process. Well today was supposed to be our closing day (for the 3rd time). Talked to the broker yesterday morning and he said we are all set to go for tomorrow (today) but he can't get countrywide to tell him by what time they'll have the package sent. All day today I'm on the phone with the title company trying to get a preliminary HUD, but the lender still hasn't sent anything. We show up anyway to the closing, thinking that it will show up any minute now. Once the broker gets there he's on the phone the whole time trying to get someone from countrywide on the phone. They won't answer or return his calls. This is getting to be ridiculous. It's one thing if someone called and said.. this is the problem and this is when it will be ready... but these people just avoid you completely and won't give any answers. I'm about to lose this deal because somebody is incompetent.

This is the first deal I've done that's had problems. Is this something that happens very often?? I sure hope not.

The broker tells us that the loan has been through underwriting and was approved, and that it's in the closing department and just needs to be sent to the title company. How hard is it to send an email?

Get used to it. Complete turmoil in the credit markets right now.

Unless your loan is a vanilla, under 80% LTV conforming or FHA/VA it's not a done deal until it's funded. Unfortunately things will likely get worse before they get better.

"We show up anyway to the closing, thinking that it will show up any minute now."
-That seemed pretty ignorant. You know no one can get a hold of the lender, and the package is not there, but hey maybe the "Document Fairy" will show up.

I would say bloomberg.com might be a good place to start as I have noticed several of my fellow agents have no idea even those A grade perfect borrowers are going to be affected by this credit crisis.

I wouldn't put all the blame on CWBC, i would also include the LO. there is no way that a loan should take that long unless there were major issues and you should have been aware. Also, underwriting time for 99% of loans are 24-72 hours. Its sounds like you were being strung along because the lo should have you at a closing that wasn't going to happen. And if it took that long them someone should have been speaking with management at countrywide. I use them and they aren't that horrible, but you can expect that out of Chase.

there's some tips that you can learn from, come check my blog you'll find it.

I heard today that CW is not funding anything that is not fannie mae/freddie mac, or trying not to. Two brokers on another forum had the same exact problem you went through Shaun. CW was giving them the run around about closing while their retail department was trying to snake the deal from them.

I lost that buyer b/c of them. He finally got tired of it.

Shaun

Shame on you to take the buyer to the closing table when you weren't sure if the package would arrive. You lost the buyer in part because you failed to set their expectations. I am not saying that the broker and the lender don't have some responsibility but you as their agent could have done a ton more. When the broker said they were approved and out of underwriting did you get a commmitment letter? Perception is reality. In my opinion I would have taken the buyer to starbucks or something and explain what is going on in the market and give them a dose of reality. BTW how did the buyer walk without being financially responsible. Was there a financing contingency, if so and there was an approval doesn't the seller have the ability to keep the earnest money?

The buyer did get to walk away, and the seller did keep the earnest money.

Ouch... I would be talking with Countrywide and a real estate attorney.

If there was a problem with financing, shouldn't the borrower get his earnest money back? Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't see how the seller should get to keep the money.

Direct lenders guys. With very few exceptions, I always urge my buyers to use direct lenders and not go through brokers. Too many hands in the pot and too many layers of scrutiny, and right now especially the borrower is all but assured a better rate going direct.

I do think all this direct banks trying to snake the loan from the broker is wrong though. If the bank has issued a commitment to fund then they need to fulfill that commitment. We just had a situation where a borrower who had been commited to by a lender through a broker backed out and did not fund, only to contact the borrower directly and ask them to re-apply directly through them...

Just another example of an un-informed agent doing a disservice to his buyer. Do you realize what it takes to be an LO with Countrywide? Not like a branch, but telephone LO? If you guessed a pulse you would be right. Idiots like that who no little about our industry are the ones who primarily are responsible for the "bad" loans out there.

Never mind, you're right. Send your buyer to a corporation who hires operators to do loans and not to one of those people that are paid strictly for performance and who want to build a clientèle. You know, those brokers who intend on making a career in this industry. Yes, those brokers don't have your clients closing in mind, they don't need it to close because of our BIG FAT SALARY!

Right on Adam! Do you know most direct lenders, banks I should say, are exempt from the rules we as brokers have to play by? As mentioned, this means that anyone with a pulse can work for a bank. Anyone at a bank doesn't have to disclose any comission they make on the back end.
Not to even mention that banks can't do half of what we can do when it comes to loan programs.
Imagine all the money your clients could have saved by using a broker. I guess it doesn't really matter though when you are the one who charges them 6% to show them the pretty counter tops and snazzy landscaping.

Oh yeah agents please send all of your buyers to direct lenders. Everyone knows that retail is always cheaper than wholesale.

He felt guilty that he tied the house up for two months and wasn't able to close. He wanted me and the seller to split the deposit, but I explained to him that I couldn't take any of the money.. if he wanted, it could go to the seller though.

That's what he wanted.

I don't know that I'd stay away from mortgage brokers from now on.. But I will most certainly never deal with this one again. This guy was incompetent from the start. It never took less than 3 days to get in touch with him.. most of the time it took a week. He was never able to give me a straight answer during the entire process.

I tried to get the buyer to go elsewhere, but this broker was a friend of his. I don't think they're friends anymore.

That just goes to show that for every 100 good apples, there's always 1 bad one. I wouldn't blame you for having a bad taste in your mouth after this experience. It's even worse when the person is a friend of your client, as you well know.
It doesn't matter what industry you are in, communication is an integral part of service. Spread the word around so that LO doesn't do any more harm to our reputation.

Woah woah woah. I'm hardly an un-informed agent. It has however been my experience and the experience of many of my mentors in this business who have been doing this for decades that in general the buyer will wind up with a better rate at lower fees and with a smoother process through a direct lender than from a broker. Now, I'm not saying just any loan officer will do, but someone with whom you have a relationship and you KNOW does a quality job. There are of course exceptions, and I have a couple brokers I do business with that do a phenominal job, but overall my experience with brokers has been lacking.

Its obvious that, at least around here, that sentiment isn't only mine. I have a much easier time getting contracts through with letters from big banks than I do brokers.

You're the one talking about how its okay for lenders to charge buyers up front fees before they quote them rates and *I* do a disservice to *MY* clients? I'll remember that next time I'm the listing agent at a closing where the poor buyers are getting an 8.5% rate with a 4 point YSP from a broker. Maybe they paid an upfront fee too!



HAHAHAHAHA why are you so defensive? I never said you were a bad broker, I just made a generalization based upon my experience and the experiences of those with whom I work have had in my specific market. And are you actually saying loan officers don't work on commission and try and build businesses just like you? Wow, thats a huge slap in the face to the people I work with.

I'm not saying there aren't great brokers, there absolutely are and I work with several of them. I'm just making a statement in general. This broker the OP is talking about royally screwed this deal. Could a bank have done it? Sure, but at least at a bank we do a lot of business with theres people on the chain I can call and get things to happen.

Just another uninformed mortgage broker showing that they have absolutely no idea how the real estate industry works. We don't charge buyers anything, and CERTAINLY don't make 6% on a transaction.

And my clients would not have saved any money going with a broker, if they could have I would have referred them to one of the brokers I use.

Don't be an a-hole. Why don't you try showing me how competent you are and make me reconsider my opinion instead of reinforcing it like you did.

Perhaps I should, to be fair, amend my statement to read "stay away from brokers you don't know". because there are, absolutely good brokers out there.

That's the key. It's like a girlfriend or wife, you aren't going to find the right one the first time, and if you do, you need to hold on to that relationship forever.

I'm not going to read the rest of the bickering back and forth, because I'm not one for e-drama. But keep in mind, whether it's bank or broker, both have their hang-ups. Find one of each that you work great with and hang onto those relationships.

I suggest you look up the definition of empathy and then look up the definition of sympathy. Actually let me help;

em·pa·thy
–noun
1. the intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another.

sym·pa·thy
adjective
–noun
3. the fact or power of sharing the feelings of another, esp. in sorrow or trouble; fellow feeling, compassion, or commiseration.

Just because you had a bad experience or your "mentor" had a bad experience you are going to pass your feelings on to your clients without there permission, an example of sympathy. If you gave them a phone number for a bank and a broker and didn't give a preference this would be a different thread altogether, but since your original post clearly had bias toward the bank I have to assume you more often then not steer your clients that direction.

Now you have to ask yourself how a professional would act. Would he get his feelings involved or would he do what is best for his clients?

I do understand that you need to have people that are tested and not just a random LO. You original post insinuated that you would just hand the client a card for Countrywide or some other large lender. If you have brokers that you work with that are phenomenal why don't you send all your business to them? As a broker we have access to wholesale rates and have the ability to work one on one and face to face with you clients. We are here and accountable. My agents are my friends, not just referral sources. I would be much more accountable to a friend than somebody who calls me to give me deals.

I'm going to end with this, every time I have had a deal that I competed with a retail branch I have won, always. I have competed against Countrywide, First Franklin and Indymac just to name a few and have even taken a loan to a bank that I competed with their retail division with for the same transaction. You know that brokers will have better rates and lower overall APR, so why not use them exclusively?

Stop doing this, it will only be bad for business.

I am fairly confident in Maine's understanding of the complexities involved in real estate. I think he/she was making a joke imitating your original generalization of brokers.

I was only advocating this if you had a deal that would be best served by you and your brokerage. If I were to charge a application fee, which I do not, it would be refundable if the client was not 100% satisfied. A $100.00-$200.00 fee is commitment, that's it. Time is a valuable commodity in real estate and mortgage as I am sure you know. I want to be working with people that actually want to do business with me, not people who ask me to come over so they can shop a loan that a friend will get anyway. I hate it when clients ask, "So, what bank are you going to?" That's a tell tale sign...

I'm not sure where you live, but in San Diego County a couple years back agents would send their clients to Riverside County to look for homes because prices were so much better. The agents told the clients to just call a brokerage and ask to see some homes and when they found one the San Diego agent would submit the offer. As a buyers agent I would be very upset, but what recourse do you have? Procuring cause? Well, maybe, but if the buyer's agent had a signed BBA who would win? And would you pursue it in court? My point is that nobody wants to waste time, an app fee is a good way to weed out the non-deals.

The day I make 4 points at all, that I actually make vs. paying for costs or rebating to the buyer I will retire. The average commission earned for a mortgage broker is 1.5% and my personal figures are dead on with the averages.

Can you tell me what your standard fee is for listing a home? Every agent I work with charges 6%. Granted, you may have to split that with a buyers agent, but I know plenty of agents that will reject showing a house if they know a buyers agent is involved. I wonder why??? I also understand you don't make all of the 100% of the fee, neither do I. I've never been to a closing where my check was larger than any of the agents involved. Hell, on my last purhcase the agent made 49K and bitched about my 8K in fees! Then again, I don't usually charge more than 2 points total on a loan, and my fees are very negotiable. Are yours?



How do you know this?? Are you a loan officer? Do you know what really factors into a rate, or do you just look at it and tell your client it's too high?? You could have let a broker compete for the loan to know for sure. I know I've never lost a loan to a bank. Hmmm, could it be because I have better rates?



I don't need to show you anything. What I would like to do is educate you. I wanted you to know that banks don't have to disclose YSP on the GFE. While all this time you may have been thinking that the bank isn't making anything on the back, it's a case of where you wouldn't even know if they are. I wanted you to know that banks don't have to comply with any education requirements for brokers. This means a bank can have anyone walk off the street and write loans. Granted, that's a little far fetched, but some banks have huge call centers staffed with loan officers that couldn't close a book.

Sometimesrate isn't everything. You of all people should know that service is what sets one person apart from another. Unlike a banker, I'm available 7 days a week, night and day. Unlike a banker, I work holidays. Unlike a broker, I'll drive out to meet you, and hold the closing at your home if that makes it easier.



Perhaps you should.

I removed them from my lender list because of poor service.

Loan Diva, you took the words right out of my mouth. I have had people come to me after getting a quote directly from Country Wide and I ran them through Country Wide at par and got them a lower rate. I have done it with Wells Fargo also. I,ll beat the direct lenders rate any day of the week. And what kind of idiot takes a buyer to a closing without getting a clear to close.