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#154612 - 07/10/07 10:51 PM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Kep]
Kep Offline
Member

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 263
Paul, while you look those over I'll be posting my reply...

To solicit one needs to ask for trade or contributions.

#1)Does no soliciting mean you can not knock on doors?

No, people have twisted what soliciting means and have come to assume it means you can not knock on doors.

#2) Hello....I just wanted to introduce myself.

No it is not soliciting, again I just introduced myself never asked for trade ro contributions.

#3) Hello... considering selling your home? Yes, I am now asking for trade.

#4) A shopping mall posts no soliciting.... You are free to solicit in a shopping mall since it is considered a public forum, free speech comes into play here.

Here is another scenario.... Some towns require you to register before you solicit in their town. I go to the town hall and register. I then proceed to enter a community that posts "no soliciting" signs. Am I in the wrong and could I be fined?

No the town law trumps any HOA/private community so forth.

In most cases the court will rule in your favor to solicit due to free speech rights the reason why Jehovah's win 99.9% of cases brought up against them for soliciting, they always claim their right to free speech.







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#154639 - 07/11/07 12:11 AM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Kep]
Paul Oaks Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 3370
Loc: Central Illinois


Does no soliciting mean you can not knock on doors?
No but this one is plain stupid as nobody just goes to the door and knocks!

Does no soliciting mean I can not knock on doors and just say Hi?
See answer for the above question.

Is this soliciting? Hello, my name is John Smith and I work for ABC Realtors and just wanted to introduce my self.

Yes, any reasonable person would feel this was a solictation

Is this solicting? Hello, my name is John Smith with ABC Realtors and I was curious if you were considering selling you home?
Yes, Definately qualifies as a Solicitation

Is this soliciting? A shopping mall posts outside their doors no soliciting but you go inside that mall and solicit, are you in violation?
Definately Solicitation

Paul, the answer yes is only correct to one of those questions, which one?

That would be 3 yes and 2 no

It appears you are indeed one of those people that feel the sign simply cannot apply to them.



[/quote]
_________________________
Paul Oaks
Oaks Real Estate Group

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#154642 - 07/11/07 12:24 AM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Kep]
Paul Oaks Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 3370
Loc: Central Illinois
Sorry Kep but soliciting in the posted mall without being a tenant of the mall is a definate no no! Free speech does not give you the right to setup shop in the mall and conduct business.

Your town example is also incorrect. Just because you have registered and paid the required fee to solicit within the city limits does not allow you to disregard a posted neighborhood or individual property.

Unfortunately Religious visitors and Politicians are something you can never quite get rid of and of course agents like you that fails to understand I don't want you at my door!


_________________________
Paul Oaks
Oaks Real Estate Group

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#154644 - 07/11/07 12:40 AM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Paul Oaks]
Kep Offline
Member

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 263
Originally Posted By: Paul Oaks


Does no soliciting mean you can not knock on doors?
No but this one is plain stupid as nobody just goes to the door and knocks!

Does no soliciting mean I can not knock on doors and just say Hi?
See answer for the above question.

Is this soliciting? Hello, my name is John Smith and I work for ABC Realtors and just wanted to introduce my self.

Yes, any reasonable person would feel this was a solictation

Is this solicting? Hello, my name is John Smith with ABC Realtors and I was curious if you were considering selling you home?
Yes, Definately qualifies as a Solicitation

Is this soliciting? A shopping mall posts outside their doors no soliciting but you go inside that mall and solicit, are you in violation?
Definately Solicitation

Paul, the answer yes is only correct to one of those questions, which one?

That would be 3 yes and 2 no

It appears you are indeed one of those people that feel the sign simply cannot apply to them.

[/quote]

Some signs do, some signs don't. I just disregard signs in apartment communities, too much business in there to pass up.

Yep some questions were plain stupid but I wanted to hear your feedback, "what a person would feel" as you stated, does not make it soliciting but I am glad you chose those words.

Paul, I "feel" you do very little in real estate sales. No need to respond defending yourself, just an example that what "a person feels" doesn't mean it is.

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#154646 - 07/11/07 12:52 AM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Kep]
Kep Offline
Member

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 263
Paul, not to get off topic but I have to throw this out at you due to your response to the town law that grants me the right to solicit in that town.

Say I want to install solar electric on the roof of my home. The town has a law on the books that I have a right to install solar on my home. Let's say I live in an HOA and the by-laws state clearly no solar can be installed on the rooftops. Can they stop me?

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#154667 - 07/11/07 03:50 AM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Kep]
Paul Oaks Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 3370
Loc: Central Illinois
If your home is part of a HOA there are likely deed restrictions that allow the HOA to enforce its by-laws. You purchased the home knowing there was a HOA and agreed to abide by its by-laws.

Originally Posted By: Kep
Paul, not to get off topic but I have to throw this out at you due to your response to the town law that grants me the right to solicit in that town.

Say I want to install solar electric on the roof of my home. The town has a law on the books that I have a right to install solar on my home. Let's say I live in an HOA and the by-laws state clearly no solar can be installed on the rooftops. Can they stop me?
_________________________
Paul Oaks
Oaks Real Estate Group

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#154668 - 07/11/07 03:58 AM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Kep]
Paul Oaks Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 3370
Loc: Central Illinois
Kep,
What a reasonable person feels is what the jury would use to decide guilt or innocence when you get arrested for trespassing when you ignore one of those signs at an apartment complex one time too many times!
That same standard will be used by your state real estate commission when an apartment complex owner or property manager file a complaint on you.

_________________________
Paul Oaks
Oaks Real Estate Group

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#154669 - 07/11/07 04:06 AM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Huntstyle]
ericka Offline
Member

Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 310
Loc: california
Originally Posted By: Huntstyle
For those door knockers out there, do you knock on doors in neighborhoods with a sign at the entrance that says No Soliciting? I'd like to start knocking on doors, but every neighborhood around here says No Soliciting.


I bring a permanent marker and on all the signs change the "no" to "noon", then I show up at noon. Or, I change the "N" to a "G"...making it "Go Soliciting". If anyone complains, I kindly point out the signs that authorize my solicitation.

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#154678 - 07/11/07 05:46 AM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: ericka]
Jennifer Allan Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 11/12/06
Posts: 1624
Loc: The Beach
When people put up a No Soliciting sign - they don't want people knocking on their door - for any reason. What the signs should really say is: "Please respect my desire for peace and privacy and go away."

This seems pretty darn black and white to me. For those of you who don't mind being "knocked", don't put up a sign. But for those of us who really don't want to chit-chat with strangers, we shouldn't have to defend ourselves against accusations that we're weird or anti-social.

So, Please Respect Our Desire for Peace and Privacy!
_________________________
Jennifer Allan-Hagedorn, GRI
RE/MAX Hall of Fame
Author of Sell with Soul, Creating an Extraordinary Career in Real Estate without Losing Your Friends, Your Principles or Your Self-Respect

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#154681 - 07/11/07 05:54 AM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Jennifer Allan]
Elecat Offline
Member

Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 252
Loc: NE Ohio
I agree, Jennifer!! What part of "No Soliciting" do intelligent professionals NOT understand??? Sheesh!!



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#154685 - 07/11/07 06:48 AM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Elecat]
Cool Cat Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 322
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: estatereal
i find it funny that people in sales are so against soliciting!

we can call ourselves realtors or associate brokers, sales associates or real estate professionals at the end of the day we are in sales and the way to make money is to solicit. people just have different ways of doing it. if doorknocking was a waste people would not do it.(whether we like to admit it or not we are all salespeople). if we hit our soi, cold call, direct market or doorknock dont forget fliers on cars or doorhangers internet capture systems to talking house we all solicit in one way or another.


IMHO, certain personalities do not feel "comfortable" door knocking, so they choose not to.

However, if other agents get leads by door knocking then it seems to me that the people CRYING FOUL are the ones that do not feel "comfortable" doing so themselves. It's like, just because I may choose to not door knock, I also do not want anyone else getting an advantage over me by door knocking themselves. By reading some of your posts, it strikes me as sour grapes.

Personally, I do not door knock subdivisions but I have door knocked fsbo's and expireds. There are agents that choose not to work with fsbo's in my office and get upset with me when I "help" fsbo's in their marketing of their own home. Another case of sour grapes.

Honestly, Working your SOI is more productive than door knocking, direct mail, image advertising, working the phone, posting ugly yellow signs around town, classified advertising for leads, or sitting at open houses. If an agent chooses to solicit that way, more power to him.

Finally, Is it just me or did images of secks (sic) come to mind from the post below when speaking about Incidental human contact I must admit neighborly in that context seemed a little bit overly friendly. wink


Originally Posted By: Perky_REALTOR
Incidental human contact is just that - incidental, unplanned, casual, and neighborly.

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#154686 - 07/11/07 07:20 AM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Kep]
Perky_REALTOR Offline
Mod Squad
Major Contributor

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 7688
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: Kep
Paul, not to get off topic but I have to throw this out at you due to your response to the town law that grants me the right to solicit in that town.

Say I want to install solar electric on the roof of my home. The town has a law on the books that I have a right to install solar on my home. Let's say I live in an HOA and the by-laws state clearly no solar can be installed on the rooftops. Can they stop me?


If it's in the deed covenants and restrictions, yes. You could live in a township that has no zoning regs about multi family houses, but you could purchase in a HOA that restricts the homes to single family.

And if you do break the covenant and nobody stops you, then the principal of laches comes into play - they can not stop you because they were lax in doing so to begin with. I'm not sure how long of a time period "they" have to enforce their rule though.

I don't care if people door knock, Cool Cat. you are correct in that I am uncomfortable with it. What I do care about is REALTORS ignoring signs and door knocking anyway because they think the signs don't apply to them. It gives the whole profession another black mark - in fact it makes us a little lower than used car salesman. Do they go knocking on doors?

I also don't think my little phrase was too familiar...?

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#154709 - 07/11/07 08:47 AM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Perky_REALTOR]
Cool Cat Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 322
Loc: Indiana
My bad!

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#154720 - 07/11/07 09:15 AM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Paul Oaks]
Kep Offline
Member

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 263
Originally Posted By: Paul Oaks
If your home is part of a HOA there are likely deed restrictions that allow the HOA to enforce its by-laws. You purchased the home knowing there was a HOA and agreed to abide by its by-laws.


Paul you are wrong bud. The reason why I used that as an example was because that situation applied to me. I went through all the proper motions before the board and moved ahead with adding solar. They claimed two things about the solar...

1) Their by-laws stated no solar.

The judge told them the town law trumps HOA's.

2) They claimed their clause about aesthetics.

Again town law trumps the HOA but the judge said aesthetics was too broad and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

The end result, I was able to install the solar. The HOA realized they can not enforce their solar policy due to the law but so they put guidelines in place for future installations.


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#154748 - 07/11/07 10:25 AM Re: "No Soliciting" [Re: Kep]
ky realtor Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 1879
Loc: kentucky
No solicitation to means exactly what it says. "don't bother me!" There's always somebody trying to get around rules just to prove a point; like the DNC. Move in another direction, because this is a waste of time and energy.
I personally don't want anybody knocking on my door uninvited. When I get home I don't want to be bothered. Not everybody feels that way. For that reason, I don't door-knock. If it works for you, go for it. But please have some respect.
One unfortunate member of a religious organization tried to put her foot in my door after being told politely to go away. ---She did go away, but she was limping.
_________________________
Comments made are my opinion, and not intended to be legal advice of any kind.

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